Winchester 54 extractor problem

[Cmm_3940]

I am having a problem with the extractor on a Winchester model 54 and find myself in need of some assistance to figure out what is going on. I have other bolt action .30-06's, I've never seen this problem with them. I acquired this rifle used obviously, and have only fired it a few times. I'm not a bolt action guru, and don't know all of the technical descriptions of all of the parts of a rifle bolt. I'm hoping that between my description of the problem and the photos I'm posting, someone can suggest a solution to my problem.

To summarize, the extractor, upon opening the bolt, is coming out of the groove on the front of the bolt and leaving the empty case stuck in the chamber.

The extractor seems to install securely on the bolt. It fits tightly enough that I need to put a piece of cloth over the claw to avoid cutting myself when pushing it into place with my thumb.

I can cycle loaded rounds or empty sized brass all day long without having any problems. I can usually extract cases after firing milder cast loads - 12 gr Unique or 18 gr 2400, for example - without any problems. I can not extract cases from full power loads - M2 ball in the most recent case - or cycle empty unsized cases from the same. It seems like if the case has the least bit of stick in the chamber, the extractor pops out, leaving the case behind, even though it only takes a normal amount of force to open the bolt. Once I remove the bolt, put the extractor back in place, and reinsert the bolt, it will not close and snap over the rim of the case that was previously left in the chamber. I have to tap the case out with a cleaning rod.

Any ideas?

I used a fired case from an M2 ball round to reproduce the problem in the following photos.

Extractor installed on bolt:
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd195/cm6259/w54_bolt_extractor_installed.png

Bolt seems to pick up rounds from the mag OK
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd195/cm6259/w54_round_pickup.png

Bolt closes OK...
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd195/cm6259/w54_bolt_shut_ok.png
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd195/cm6259/w54_bolt_close_ok.png

Extractor pops out when opening bolt
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd195/cm6259/w54_bolt_open_bad.png
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd195/cm6259/w54_extractor_displaced.png
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd195/cm6259/w54_bolt_extractor_bad.png

Closups of the extractor
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd195/cm6259/w54_extractor_1.png
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd195/cm6259/w54_extractor_2.png

No, I'm not the one who chose to engine turn every square millimeter of the bolt and extractor. [smilie=b:

Thanks,

Chris

[fouronesix]

Looks like previous owner has really monkeyed with, filed and ground on the extractor…. for some reason. The claw itself looks OK but the rail just behind the extractor claw doesn't look right and can be slipping out of its raceway or maybe a sloppy fit in its raceway in the bolt during extraction. Can't see the raceway well enough in the photo, but it too could be wallowed out some. I'd guess the best chance for a fix would be to try a new extractor. If the raceway slot in the bolt is wallowed that'd require a specialized weld and re-cut or another bolt.

Ok, I pulled a Win M54 '06 out of the back of the safe to compare with your photos. To me it looks like your extractor has been altered so much that it needs to be replaced. Guessing the rifle's history may be impossible. If it has the original barrel and is marked '06 and the bolt serial matches the receiver serial then the extractor is not right. It may be an extractor for a smaller head cartridge that was put in and and an attempt was made to make it fit an '06 sized head. If the bolt serial doesn't match the receiver serial then the bolt was replaced and may have been for a smaller case head cartridge. Then an attempt was made to alter the extractor to fit the '06 sized head.

In any case, your least expensive and best first try would be to get a pre-64 Mod 70 extractor and try it (they should fit). They run about $60 from Brownells or Wisners. If uncomfortable with that, take it to a gunsmith familiar with pre-64 Win Model 70s/54s and have it fixed.

[Cmm_3940]

I'll replace it. You told me what I needed to know. Thank you! 1) someone has messed with and messed up the extractor, and 2) a pre '64 Mod70 extractor should fit. Knowing my Dad, he probably picked this gun up at a gunshow as part of a trade because it was pretty and never shot it, so it is definitely 'provenance unknown'. There is an etched serial number on the bottom of the bolt that matches the receiver, which is marked '.30GOV`T`06.' Unless a previous owner was a real horse trader and reserialized an incorrect bolt, I should have the correct bolt.

[fouronesix]

Yes, the serial on the bolt should be etched (scribed) on the flat on the bottom of the bolt. If those numbers match and the barrel is marked '06 and is original to the receiver then either the extractor was changed out and/or altered (buggered).

Sometimes those extractors will not pop over the rim when single round loading. That is normal. Depends on the design of the bevel and strength of the after market extractor you get. If it only wants to load from the magazine, I'd just leave it alone and load from the magazine.

Hope it works with the new extractor. The Win M54 is a classic old rifle.

[John Taylor]

Also looks like the ring may be damaged, quite common from removing/replacing the extractor. The ears get bent out a bit and don't hold the extractor tight against the bolt.
With the bolt out of the gun and the extractor in place put a cartridge in the bolt face and see if it is lifting the extractor out of the groove, it may be the wrong extractor.

[James Wisner]

A couple of things are wrong.

You have an 1903 Springfield extractor on your bolt, and it has been greatly filed on in the hook, groove area.

The early M54's had a hook thickness of aprox .045" like the 1903 extractor. then Winchester changed it to .095" thick, hence the A on the serial numbers of the later guns to denote the extractor change.

If indeed you have an early rifle, that needs the thin hook, a pre 1964 Model 70 extractor can be modified to fit the early Model 54's
Other wise if your rifle has the A in the serial number a pre 1964 Model 70 extractor will fit, with only minor fitting/polishing of the hook.

The extractor ring is the same as the pre 1964 Model 70.

J Wisner

[Cmm_3940]

Serial number is 61## , no A. I ordered an extractor for a mod. 54 from Wisner's Inc. today. Is that you?

ETA: from the About Us link on the web page, it looks like it is indeed you I ordered it from :)

Chris

[Cmm_3940]

Just a followup to let everyone know how this project turned out...

I got the replacement extractor from Wisner's, got it fitted and installed. I never realized just how badly the old extractor had been bubba'd until I got the correct part and saw how different it is from the one that was on there before. I gently polished out what tiny tool marks were present from the front surface of the claw, and it now not only extracts correctly, but also snaps over the rim of a loaded round properly.

Thank you to everyone who provided advice and suggestions. My gun is much happier, and so am I. :bigsmyl2:

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd195/cm6259/w54_extractor_%20correct.png

[fouronesix]

Excellent! Thanks for posting the results. No matter how obvious it seems, always a little iffy when trying to diagnose a problem without having the gun in hand. That photo shows the bolt face well. My other fear was that the opposing lip on the bolt face could also have been buggered which can cause the same symptoms. The bolt head/face look to be in good shape.