Lee RGB die sets

[three50seven]

I am planning to start reloading .223 and possibly 30-30 in the near future. I only have one rifle in each caliber. Are the Lee RGB dies a good deal? All my other die sets (handgun calibers) are Lee, and I have no complaints with any of them.

[firebrick43]

Probably just fine for the 30/30, that is if you are shooting out of a lever gun. Gun not the ammo is the limiting factor.

223 depends on your gun and use. General plinking have at it. Bench rest gun, might look some where else.

[troyboy]

They will work as good as anything else. When you choose to use new match brass in a custom rifle, then you might need to upgrade. I just tested lee dies on once fired headstamp sorted brass and will say that in my test with my brass that the Lee's were equal to the vaunted Forster.

[rodsvet]

30-30 is OK with Lee. If you shooting the 223 in semi auto then get small base dies. RCBS are as good as any. Lee dies are NOT small base. Rod

[troyboy]

Rodsvet, I reload for 2 Ar's progressive with Lee dies and have yet to have an issue.

[orbitalair]

New RGB sets do not crimp, -at all. Old ones have a taper/roll type crimp built in (depended on how deep you set the die body)

Its true Lee dies are not 'small base', but you should not need that unless you know for a fact that your chamber is small.
I have Ar15s, and Lee dies work perfectly.

[Lefty Red]

Yes, LEE will work as good and the rest for your AR. If its a match chamber, you MIGHT have to get a small base resizer/deprimer die at the worste case. But most ARs I have messed with have such a generous chamber to help with feeding that its not a problem.
Jerry

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

30-30 is OK with Lee. If you shooting the 223 in semi auto then get small base dies. RCBS are as good as any. Lee dies are NOT small base. Rod

If you need to use small base dies reloading .223, you are not adjusting your dies down far enough. Standard dies do just fine. If your chamber is too small, you should have your chamber reamed a bit, as a small chamber is not a good idea with a automatic or a self-loading rifle.

[rodsvet]

Well guys, I'm amazed that most of you guys think that standard dies are all that is needed. I've owned many AR's and some do need small base and some don't. Right now I have 2 Bushmasters, 1 Colt, and a parts gun. Since using Small base dies I have had no more chambering problems and in the past I've had a few. If you weapon goes off without the bolt being fully locked you won't enjoy it. Now please don't try educate me on reloading and brass selection and prep. I still think Small base is the way to go for semi and full auto. If you haven't ever had a problem in chambering the 223, then you haven't been reloading long enough. MY .02, Rod

[Le Loup Solitaire]

I have been using Lee RGB dies in 06 and 30/30 and they work just fine. Both have the ability to apply a slight roll crimp which is all that is needed in my rifles. Choosing the RGB sets saved me some money and I have been pleased with the dies. LLS

[Motor]

Well guys, I'm amazed that most of you guys think that standard dies are all that is needed. I've owned many AR's and some do need small base and some don't. Right now I have 2 Bushmasters, 1 Colt, and a parts gun. Since using Small base dies I have had no more chambering problems and in the past I've had a few. If you weapon goes off without the bolt being fully locked you won't enjoy it. Now please don't try educate me on reloading and brass selection and prep. I still think Small base is the way to go for semi and full auto. If you haven't ever had a problem in chambering the 223, then you haven't been reloading long enough. MY .02, Rod

All its worth too 2c.

Just go to AR-15.com and take a poll. You will find well over 90% of AR platform users have ZERO issues with STANDARD FULL LENGTH DIES.

Fact is if you use SB and don't need them you are shortening your brass life by many cycles.

I have no doubt you have AR's that need SB dies but those are rare at best.

All I'm saying is SB dies are a AS NEEDED tool not a must have and certainly not a must use for everything semi auto tool.

I've been reloading since 1985. Is that long enough. LOL

I use standard Lee .223 dies for my AR-15 and it shoots 5/8" groups at 100 yards. This is a out of the box Remington VTR-15. Fact is I've only ever seen 1 group above 2" out of over 10 load work ups.

As for 30-30 I would have to think Lee is doing something to provide a crimp especially since most 30-30s are traditionally lever action tube magazine rifles.

Motor

[rodsvet]

deleted.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Just go over to AR15.com? Ummm no thanks!

[MT Chambers]

I like Redding deluxe die sets, they are 3 die sets that have both a FL sizer and a neck sizer included, Forster makes great die sets as well. Redding bushing dies allow you to size case necks to whatever size you want with diff. bushings, these may be right for your .223. This equip. is good quality and should make excellent and accurate ammo, or do you just want to reload? It depends on your expectations and your budget.

[dragon813gt]

I have been using Lee RGB dies in 06 and 30/30 and they work just fine. Both have the ability to apply a slight roll crimp which is all that is needed in my rifles. Choosing the RGB sets saved me some money and I have been pleased with the dies. LLS

How old are the dies? Be aware that Lee has made changes to their die sets over the past few years. If it comes w/ a dead length bullet seater the die will not crimp. There is a thread about this recently. Basically you need to buy a crimp die along w/ the two die RGB set making it not a really great buy.

[three50seven]

Alright folks, let's chill out for a minute....Sounds like I will be fine using the RGB dies to load 30-30 for my Marlin 336. As for the .223, I never even mentioned what type of rifle I have chambered in .223.....It's a CZ 527 carbine with a 2-7x Refield scope, not an AR. I don't plan to benchrest shoot with it, it is intended to be a short-to-moderate range varmint and predator rifle.

[rodsvet]

That is a fine rifle and for it the Lee dies should perform well. Enjoy the 223, it's a great cartridge. Rod

[Foto Joe]

I use the Lee 4-die set for 30-30. Full length sizer, collet neck sizer, bullet seat and collet factory crimp die. The collet neck sizer allows you to size without lubing which I find as a plus. A buddy of mine just picked up a set at Cabela's yesterday for $45 to replace his Redding set which he doesn't care for after using my Lee set.

[xvigauge]

I guess I will be the lone dissenter in this discussion of Lee dies. I do own a couple of sets of Lee dies because that was all that was available at the time I need the dies, or because they came with a rifle I bought. That being said I really don't like Lee dies. Oh, they work and will get the job done, but I still don't like them. For one reason, the depriming/neck expander rod is prone to slip and then has to be retightened. This can be very aggravating. The O ring lock nut can be a pain to adjust. There is no knurling on them and they just have a "cheap" feel. They are prone to rusting more than other dies I have used. Finally, they have little or no resale value. Just try to sell or trade them at a gun show and you will get no takers. On the other hand, Forester, Lyman, RCBS, and Hornady dies are all great I have sets of each and I love them. The problems I have had with Lee dies do not exist in the other brands I mentioned. I also do not like the Lee collet neck sizing die. I find it hard to adjust and not very easy to use besides not being very precise. However, there are some Lee products I really like and use, including the Lee crimp dies, the Lee universal depriming die, the Lee scale, and the Lee powder dippers. If one likes Lee dies, I say go for it. I am only stating my experiences and opinions, YMMV.
xvigauge

[pworley1]

I have never had a problem with lee dies in any caliber. Take the time to set them correctly and you should have no problems.

[Lefty Red]

Alright folks, let's chill out for a minute....Sounds like I will be fine using the RGB dies to load 30-30 for my Marlin 336. As for the .223, I never even mentioned what type of rifle I have chambered in .223.....It's a CZ 527 carbine with a 2-7x Refield scope, not an AR. I don't plan to benchrest shoot with it, it is intended to be a short-to-moderate range varmint and predator rifle.

You can use a FL resizing/depriming die for the use on new to you brass. Then you could use a Collect/Neck die after that. Having a bolt helps you out and helps to save your brass since your brass will be fire formed to your rifle's chamber.
Jerry

[dudel]

What press will you be using? I find the Lee dies have shorter threaded bodies. On my 550, they are cranked down so far, I have to move the locking rings under the die holder. More of an inconvenience than anything else.

I'll buy the Lee's collet die; but I prefer Hornady (but not the Great American series). Once you factor in 100 free bullets, Hornady is an easy choice.

[three50seven]

I have 2 Lee presses.

[W.R.Buchanan]

.357: as stated above the new Lee RGB sets don't crimp however when loading this ammo I have found that using the Lee Collet Crimp Die will accomplish the task with minimal problems, and yield a consistent crimp that works perfectly in all my rifles.

I load .223's for 3 Carbines,,, Mini 14, AR, Kel Tec all semi autos. I load on my Dillon 550B. The problem with trying to roll crimp this cartridge is that unless all of your cases are trimmed to the exact same length, your crimps will be horribly inconsistent. The Lee collet die doesn't care about case length.

Since .223's for me are a one way trip I am not going to trim any of them The solution was the Lee Collet Crimp Die.

Read this next blurb closely!!!!

Here's a little tidbit directly from one of the RCBS Reps at the SHOT Show. "A small base die will reduce the size of the cartridge by @ .001-.002 on a set of dies which are at "Nominal Tolerance," With relation to a normal FL die at nominal tolerance. "Nominal" means right on the dimensions on the print."

However there is a tolerance on those drawings as there is on all machined parts and it is possible for a Small Based Die to actually be bigger than a normal FL sizing die!

I was somewhat taken aback by this statement.

Point being there is so little difference between the two dies it is nearly pointless. If you have an AR with a very tight match chamber then it "might" behoove you to use the SB die. 99.9% of the time, feeding problems in those guns are not because of the cartridges, it's because of the gun.

I am not aware of any other outfits that make Small Based dies, Maybe Hornady, possibly Redding?

I would recommend the Lee die set that includes the Collet Crimp die. For your application.

Also just to spread the love,,, another little tidbit. On Lee Die Sets the seating dies with flats milled on the top of the die will Roll Crimp, the ones with knurling on the top, won't.

Randy

[three50seven]

Thank you for the info everyone. Looks like for an extra $10, I may be better off getting this set:
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690707/223-Remington-Collet-2-Die-Set-With-Shellholder

[W.R.Buchanan]

Actually the one you want is this one... http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690502/223-Remington-Full-Length-Pacesetter-3-Die-Set-With-Shellholder?clicks=box4

Same price but you get all three dies you need.

Randy

[three50seven]

Ahh, yep that makes much more sense [emoji4]

[ukrifleman]

I guess I will be the lone dissenter in this discussion of Lee dies. I do own a couple of sets of Lee dies because that was all that was available at the time I need the dies, or because they came with a rifle I bought. That being said I really don't like Lee dies. Oh, they work and will get the job done, but I still don't like them. For one reason, the depriming/neck expander rod is prone to slip and then has to be retightened. This can be very aggravating. The O ring lock nut can be a pain to adjust. There is no knurling on them and they just have a "cheap" feel. They are prone to rusting more than other dies I have used. Finally, they have little or no resale value. Just try to sell or trade them at a gun show and you will get no takers. On the other hand, Forester, Lyman, RCBS, and Hornady dies are all great I have sets of each and I love them. The problems I have had with Lee dies do not exist in the other brands I mentioned. I also do not like the Lee collet neck sizing die. I find it hard to adjust and not very easy to use besides not being very precise. However, there are some Lee products I really like and use, including the Lee crimp dies, the Lee universal depriming die, the Lee scale, and the Lee powder dippers. If one likes Lee dies, I say go for it. I am only stating my experiences and opinions, YMMV.
xvigauge

I have to take issue with your comments about Lee dies, all the issues you state are preventable.

If the de-capping rod slips, then tighten it up so that it doesn't.

The aluminium lock nut is a hexagon, which means you can take a spanner (wrench) to it to tighten it.

If rust is a problem, your dies must be stored in a damp environment, try WD40 or similar to prevent it.

Lee collet dies work fine when adjusted properly.

With respect, I suggest you read the instructions before using and follow them accordingly.

ukrifleman

[W.R.Buchanan]

I have to take issue with your comments about Lee dies, all the issues you state are preventable.

If the de-capping rod slips, then tighten it up so that it doesn't.

The aluminium lock nut is a hexagon, which means you can take a spanner (wrench) to it to tighten it.

If rust is a problem, your dies must be stored in a damp environment, try WD40 or similar to prevent it.

Lee collet dies work fine when adjusted properly.

With respect, I suggest you read the instructions before using and follow them accordingly.

ukrifleman

Plus 1 to what he said.

Randy

[EDG]

I have to take issue with your comments about Lee dies, all the issues you state are preventable.

If the de-capping rod slips, then tighten it up so that it doesn't.

They will not always tighten up due to poor workmanship. Lee's machining of the top of the decapper often looks like it was cut by and angry beaver and is not consistent in diameter. It is just another one of Lee's market differention gimmicks that is poorly executed.

The aluminium lock nut is a hexagon, which means you can take a spanner (wrench) to it to tighten it.

The aluminum lock nut is not really a lock nut it is a jam nut and it will not hold its position when the die is removed.
Another marketing gimmick. Lee's rings do not hold the setting when they are removed from the press. If you shoot pistols a lot you may say so what. I shoot bottle neck rifle rounds and I like to set my FL size dies exactly on .000 clearance, lock them and leave them permanently. You cannot do this with a Lee ring.


If rust is a problem, your dies must be stored in a damp environment, try WD40 or similar to prevent it.

WD 40 is a very sorry rust preventative. I live in a hot mostly dry climate 250 miles inland. I know for a fact that WD 40 treated guns and tools were rusting 50 years ago.

Lee collet dies work fine when adjusted properly.

No they don't. You have not used them on a wide variety of brass. Try them on a 6mm Remington with Remington brass.
They don't work well because the brass has a slight taper.

With respect, I suggest you read the instructions before using and follow them accordingly.

ukrifleman

UK - I suspect that you do not really have a lot of experience with Lee tools.

[725]

Lee RGB dies are fine. I prefer Lee for most applications. The only thing is that you won't get a dipper or shell holder with the RGB's.

[ukrifleman]

UK - I suspect that you do not really have a lot of experience with Lee tools.

In fact, I have been reloading for rifle and pistol calibres for the last 45 years, using equipment produced by Lyman, RCBS and Lee and Lee products have worked just fine.

The only major difference I have found between Lee and the competition has been the price.

I am sorry that you have had such problems with Lee products and if you find satisfaction with the other (excellent) brands, I wish you well.

ukrifleman.

[xvigauge]

Sorry, but my experiences with Lee dies are the following: as far as the decapping stem goes, it can still slip no matter how tight you make them. The thing is, they should not slip at all. I should not have to use a spanner wrench to adjust the lock nut, I should be able to do it easily by hand. They are prone to rust, regardless of what one does to prevent it. My other dies never show any rust. The collet dies are a pain in the blank to adjust and are inconsistent, not like my Redding and Lyman neck sizers. And, what can you say about the poor resale value? You are lucky to get half of what they cost and you can get nothing at a gun show. And, the lack of knurling makes them look and feel cheap, which they are. Those are just my opinions based on my personal experiences of over 50 year of reloading experience using every brand of die imaginable. If you like Lee dies then go for it. I don't want to waste my money.
xvigauge

[three50seven]

I purchased the 3-die pacesetter set. This was never intended to be a Lee vs. the competition thread. If this is how the thread is going to progress, I ask that the mods please delete it.

[Foto Joe]

Unfortunately anytime a thread contains a question regarding "Lee" anything it will eventually bring out those who want nothing to do with Lee. I've used Lee reloading tools for over thirty years and yes I've found a few items that I don't have much use for. What has gotten lost on this thread is the fact that you aren't setting up for competition bench rest shooting. Whether we care to admit it or not, Lee dies will do just fine for most of us. I will grant you that sometimes they take a little more TLC, tweaking or adjustment that some folks are willing to put out but the fact remains that Lee Precision has stayed in business for a very long time so somebody has to be using their products.

Don't sweat the Lee Haters out there just take what you hear with a grain of salt and use what works for "you" not necessarily what works for me. By the way if you really want to stir up a hornets nest just mention that you think Dillon is over priced for what you get.:shock:

[three50seven]

Well said Foto Joe. I have returned a couple of Lee products that I've purchased, but not because they were "junk." Almost all of my equipment is Lee, and it serves me quite well. I reload because it's economical and satisfying, not because I'm trying to win competitions or anything like that.

[EDG]

As far a problems with dies go. They are not my problems. They are Lee's problems.
I began using 7/8-14 dies long before Lee began manufacturing dies. I bought the Lee dies out of curiosity (about a dozen sets) and because they were cheap. Cheap as in $5 to $7 a set at gun shows. I also have dies that I paid as little as $3 a set for made by Bair and RCBS. Most of the Lee dies that I own are duplicated by other brands so that I have a very sound basis to compare them. The only reason to for me to switch wholesale to Lee's is only because they are better. Where they are better I have changed - I do use the FCD for most of my crimping. But Lee dies are NOT better in most respects. They may be different but not better. For the most part they are only cheaper without any other benefit.
However in the US where the die supply is plentiful you can find a wide array of second hand dies that will beat the price of new Lees and you get better dies at the same time.
Of course you can always buy second hand Lee's. They are plentiful and their lack of excellence is reflected by an equally lower price. There are 58 sets of second hand Lee rifle dies on eBay at this time for comparison shopping. What is $2 or $3 or $5 dollars when a set of dies may last you 50 years? If price is the only consideration, why reload at all?


In fact, I have been reloading for rifle and pistol calibres for the last 45 years, using equipment produced by Lyman, RCBS and Lee and Lee products have worked just fine.

The only major difference I have found between Lee and the competition has been the price.

I am sorry that you have had such problems with Lee products and if you find satisfaction with the other (excellent) brands, I wish you well.

ukrifleman.

[xvigauge]

As far a problems with dies go. They are not my problems. They are Lee's problems.
I began using 7/8-14 dies long before Lee began manufacturing dies. I bought the Lee dies out of curiosity (about a dozen sets) and because they were cheap. Cheap as in $5 to $7 a set at gun shows. I also have dies that I paid as little as $3 a set for made by Bair and RCBS. Most of the Lee dies that I own are duplicated by other brands so that I have a very sound basis to compare them. The only reason to for me to switch wholesale to Lee's is only because they are better. Where they are better I have changed - I do use the FCD for most of my crimping. But Lee dies are NOT better in most respects. They may be different but not better. For the most part they are only cheaper without any other benefit.
However in the US where the die supply is plentiful you can find a wide array of second hand dies that will beat the price of new Lees and you get better dies at the same time.
Of course you can always buy second hand Lee's. They are plentiful and their lack of excellence is reflected by an equally lower price. There are 58 sets of second hand Lee rifle dies on eBay at this time for comparison shopping. What is $2 or $3 or $5 dollars when a set of dies may last you 50 years? If price is the only consideration, why reload at all?


Well said, EDG.
xvigauge

[dudel]

I have to take issue with your comments about Lee dies, all the issues you state are preventable.

If the de-capping rod slips, then tighten it up so that it doesn't.

The aluminium lock nut is a hexagon, which means you can take a spanner (wrench) to it to tighten it.

If rust is a problem, your dies must be stored in a damp environment, try WD40 or similar to prevent it.

Lee collet dies work fine when adjusted properly.

With respect, I suggest you read the instructions before using and follow them accordingly.

ukrifleman

I've had pretty much the same experience as xvi.

If you tighten down the rod so that it doesn't slip, then it doesn't give when you hit a berdan primered case. Hornady did it right (IMHO) with the lightly threaded rod. Finger tight holds; but it can still slide when needed to protect the pin.

If you use a wrench/spanner to tighten down the nut, you defeat the purpose of the nut which Lee says you only need finger pressure to lock the die. Not a big fan of the Lee nuts. I prefer the smaller Dillon nuts. They take up less space on the toolhead.

Funny, all my dies are stored in the same room, right next to each other on the bench in their toolheads. Only the Lee dies develop surface rust. No rust on the Lyman, RCBS or Hornady. Only on the Lee.

I like the collet dies fine; but the do seem a bit hard on the case head. Much of my 22 Hornet brass and .223 brass now have shell holder marks on the case head. Only happens with the collet dies.

The Lee dies DO feel cheap (to me). The die body has less threaded portion than other dies. Some dies have no knurling or wrench flats. They are less expensive because they leave out features. If they work for you, then fine; but they aren't everyone's cup of tea.

As for instructions; Lee probably has the poorest instructions of any die maker (again, my feelings only).

They work, will get the job done; but the quality control is lacking. I have a push through die for .30x. It won't put gas checks on squarely. You routinely read about people here how have to open up their sizers because Lee got them wrong. A fellow here, Buckshot, makes Lee style sizing dies; and his workmanship is head and shoulders above Lee; and he charges the same (or less for a custom die).

Before you put me down as a Lee basher, I like their molds and the infamous FCD dies. I'll defend those to the end.

[r1kk1]

I thought that if a cartridge was chambered in an action that would require crimping, the seating die has the provision to crimp also. So, if you need to crimp and using RGB dies your shopping is not done. Time to buy a crimp die. I crimp and seat in two different dies, where I can so that doesn't bother me. That would move the price set of RGB up a notch because you need a crimp die.

It sounds weird to me that their is no provision in the seating die to accomplish a crimp.

take care,

r1kk1

[dudel]

I thought that if a cartridge was chambered in an action that would require crimping, the seating die has the provision to crimp also. So, if you need to crimp and using RGB dies your shopping is not done. Time to buy a crimp die. I crimp and seat in two different dies, where I can so that doesn't bother me. That would move the price set of RGB up a notch because you need a crimp die.

It sounds weird to me that their is no provision in the seating die to accomplish a crimp.

take care,

r1kk1

I believe RGB *used* to come with a seating die that could crimp if needed.

[MT Chambers]

I agree with EKG or whatever, ditch the Lees.......whatever set you end up with, make sure it will seat and crimp with the 1 die. If you are going to use cast, you will prolly have to make provision for reduced or adj. case neck tension and flaring(Lyman M-die). Or you could crimp the case and size the bullet all in one go with a Lee FCD.