Patch Lube

[Rattus58]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v305/rattus58/PatchLubes-1.jpg








thread title inappropriate.

[Blammer]

LOL

too funny!
I don't think I'll be testing it though.

[Rattus58]

I couldn't believe it when I saw it... nor the fact that most of the time it was pretty well right up there with the best groups.... :-D:-D

[405]

why those testing the lubes would think that urine would be any better than a mild ammonia/water solution or mild vinegar/water solution??? Makes me question the motives other than as a gag ingredient.

BTW long ago and far away I found a relatively weak moose milk solution was about as good as any as a round ball patch lube. Maybe 10 parts water : to 1 part Ballistol.

[curator]

I read the article. It does appear to be very scientific. However, matching patch thickness, ball size, powder charge, and patch lube to get accuracy involves six variables, not one. Not that the information is worthless, as it gives the "one-size-fits-all shooters somewhere to start.

There is no magic lube, but the old "spit-patch comes close. Unfortunately, spit is difficult to apply uniformly. I found their method of saturating the patch material interesting as well. Any one of these patch "lubes" could have shot better or worse with different powder charges, thicker or thinner patches, or more or less lube. They did clean the barrel between lube trials at least.

[Rattus58]

I read a treatise by a gentleman Dutch Shoultz on patch lubes and thickness that came up with a "slickness" that he found worked best. He used cutting oil, I use ballistol now in a 9:1 and get pretty good result.

The article actually was I thought pretty scientific as well and so I give it some credence and one new formula to try.... :)

Aloha... :cool:

[TCLouis]

That it makes it fun, and exasperating.

A person that I shoot with found a difference in accuracy in the TC pre lubed patches from the time they were freshly opened in the morning, and later in the day as they dried out (very dry day in the SE). I do NOT shoot well enough to notice, but he does, and did.

If it were me I would have saved urine to be the last on the list (hoping to run out of "good shooting light")

[fatelvis]

I use ballistol now in a 9:1 and get pretty good result.
Ratt, I always hear this, but was wondering: How do you apply the 9:1 Ballistol mix to the patches, and how wet do you make them? Or do you let the mix dry on the patch, and then use? I always assumed a wet patch would partially kill the powder charge. Thanks!

[RBak]

Rattus, where did you find this information?

As usual, I find such reading very interesting. In fact, I can't seem to get enough of it.

Like many others, for the past 50 or so years, I have been on that search for the so called "perfect lube" for patch & roundball, and like some, I have found a handful of lubes that work better than others in the same rifle.

Russ

[Rattus58]

http://www.epmuzzleloaders.com/links.html looks like has his stuff. I forget how I originally heard about him, but somehow I got his phone number and talked to him for hours.

I use the ballistol to use it up, he used cutting oil. I take the water and ballistol by volume and lay it in a cookie pan or similar. Then I'd lay the strips the of 1" by maybe 10" (the length of the pan) into the emulsion over night to evaporate and dry. Then I'd cut these into 1" squares for shooting.

I started this at about 7:or 8:1 and found for that gun I was using then, 9:1 worked best. Crisco works alright too... melt it and dip your strips in it and let cool, using that tongue depressor might not hurt the case either to wipe away the excess, but all I've done is pull it betweeen my fingers (wearing latex gloves) wipe excess before drying. I've used crisco cold too... from a film cannister while hunting and the crisco can at the range... works ok too for most guns..

Shoultz was looking not for hunting accuracy, he was looking for international shooting accuracy... the x-ring... and the methods he employs are more tedious, they seem to work very well.

My patches, by the way, if I didn't use them up, I soaked in a little ballistol (that stuff will gag you, no question with its sweet putrid smell) and then used them straight that way later.

The ratio of cutting oil to water really matters and you can see your groups open up or shrink with the different concoctions. Truth be known though.... crisco winds up with me a lot too... :)

Aloha... Tom :cool:

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Think about this a minute. If you hold all the variables constant, as in working up a load for your new patch gun, and that includes your ONE lube preference, and you shoot, clean, reload, and slowly increase the charge, etc, you will most always come to a point where your accuracy is fully satisfactory, assuming reasonable variable selections at the start.

Don't we know that at the point of fully satisfactory, almost any change normally degrades accuracy? That is why you can't change three things and learn anything. You only change one thing and seek improvement. I note that a wide variety of originals have grease holes, not pee stains.

BvT

[Rattus58]

No suer your reference to grease holes.... but...

Of course, anyone who has "thought" about working up a load will start somewhere and work up changing either powder, patch, lube one thing at a time.

When I started, I didn't think about this and was lucky to have oldtimers who did competitive shooting to help me along. The greatest help I received was the keep it close. I was told to work on powder first, but what if the bullet you've chosen won't work in your gun?

If your bullet won't hit the x at 15 yards it wont hit it at any distance, so you may have to change your plans right at the start. Once you've got a bullet that hits the bull at close range, then go to the powder to see how well it stays in the x. If it does... great, go to 25. I'm pretty stubborn and didn't fuss with lubes much except I'd sometimes try crisco as an alternative during shooting if things weren't going right. My lube now is pretty much crisco and beeswax, but I'm going to try beeswax and olive oil next time out as well.

Aloha... :cool:

[Guido4198]

Is that 9 Ballistol and 1 water...???
Or is it the other way around...????

Thanks,
Don

[Rattus58]

That would be 9 water to 1 ballistol....

Aloha.... :cool:

[northmn]

The alchemy behind patch lubes is fascinating. How they work depends on climate, humidity, and temperature. Spit is very common for match shooting, but why it would have any magical properties over water based lubes I do not know. It will dry out quickly and does not work for prelubing patches, on hot days is not always as available and is not good for carrying hunting. I have used Crisco (or generics) with very good results and work up loads with it which is likely why it works. MN has humidity levels that vary considerably. Some days the pan in a flinter will be sopping wet after a shot, other days it stays dry and the barrel will have very hard fouling and require more swabbing. Crisco has excellent lubrication properties and likely is not as good for keeping the bore as clean. I use Crisco on my shop bench for drill lube and tapping. Spit does not work for that. Some women even cook with it I hear. Like most, I really do not care how accurate urine might be.

Northmn

[Maven]

"I read a treatise by a gentleman Dutch Shoultz on patch lubes and thickness that came up with a "slickness" that he found worked best. He used cutting oil, I use ballistol now in a 9:1 and get pretty good result."

All, Dutch Schoultz used to be an active participant in the Natl. Muzzleloading Rifle Assoc. (target shooting). He also advertised his accuracy system in their journal, "Muzzle Blasts," which is where Rattus may have seen his contact informtion. Sadly, his eyesight has degenerated so much that he is no longer able to aim a rifle. Be that as it may, he has changed his recommendation about using water soluble machine oil in whatever dilution a given rifle prefers (1:5, 1:6, 1:7, etc., oil to water, respectively) since the newer oils have too many synthetic ingredients, at least according to him. (He wrote this in an e-mail to me several years ago.) If memory serves, he now recommends using diluted Ballistol in whatever amount your muzzle loader prefers.