Say goodbye forever to Hodgon Clays and international clays.

[SpotHound]

Dear Reloader,
Australian Munitions is making some changes to the way we manufacture our pistol and shotgun powders. These changes are necessary to ensure that we can sustainably manufacture these products for many years to come. We are making changes to both the manufacturing process and formulation of the powders, in order to sustain the manufacturability and throughput of the Australian Shotgun (AS) and Australian Pistol (AP) series powders.
The result of this change will be a new series of powders that will give our customers the performance excellence you have come to expect from ADI powders in both shotgun and pistol applications. This new series of powders will be called the APS series of powders, starting with APS35 that will replace AS30N, and APS45 that will replace both AS50N and AP50N. You will see these powders start appearing on the shelves after May this year, and we will be making reloading data available for them on our website and in the 2015 edition of our reloading manual, which will be released in May. Our development of APS-series powders to replace AP70N is well under way, but we will continue to supply AP70N throughout 2015 until the new powder is ready for release. AP100 manufacture is not affected by these changes, as it is manufactured differently.
While we are making these changes, it is unfortunately possible that you may experience some difficulty obtaining AS30N, AP50N and AS50N. This is due to the fact that it is getting more difficult for us to run the old process regularly, which is an important part of the reasoning behind making the changes. We ask that you please remain patient during this time, as the changes are essential to ensuring that we can continue making these powders in Australia well into the future.
Thank you for your ongoing support, and for using our World Class powders, proudly made in Australia. We appreciate your custom.
Be safe out there, and enjoy your reloading.
Ferdi Kluever
Sales Director, Australian Munitions

Hint AS30 is clays and AS50 is international and AP70N is Universal.

[butch2570]

Thanks for the notification.

[novalty]

APS45 that will replace both AS50N and AP50N. Does this mean HP-38 (or W-231) will also be affected, since is an equivalent of AP50N on their Powder Equivalent Chart?

[9w1911]

No 231 is made in Florida at st marks

[TXGunNut]

So AP70N is Universal? Bummer. Have a couple of pounds bo't almost five years ago, one of my favorite powders but I don't shoot pistol much these days. Wonder if Hodgdon will import the APS replacement. Seems to be a transition time in the powder world. Hodgdon annual articles covered it pretty well, not sure I like the way things are going.

[runfiverun]

everybody's everything is changing.
pretty soon I won't know anything about nuthin cause it'll all have changed.

[TXGunNut]

Old man's survival mantra: change is good, change is good, change is good....
Only problem is, I'm not old. Good thing I have a shelf full of powder I'm comfortable with.

[trapper9260]

Thanks for the head up.For some of that powder I will have to go another way for what i was think of usen it.

[Whiterabbit]

Old man's survival mantra: change is good, change is good, change is good....
Only problem is, I'm not old. Good thing I have a shelf full of powder I'm comfortable with.


Bingo. That's the problem with being a young pup with an old soul. The worst of both worlds. Knowing you must change to survive to the future while at the same time realizing how we trade the good things of days past for brand new evils or even neutrals we don't care for.

[dragon813gt]

I'm wondering what is forcing these changes? Don't get me wrong, temperature stability is a good thing. But I can't help but think it's accountants behind the changes. You hear that the old powders are to expensive to produce. Yet the new powders are significantly more money per pound. Also seems like they're trying to cover more applications w/ less powder types. That's the equivalent of using an adjustable wrench. Yes, it will work but it's never the best option.

To bad it's not easy to set up a powder manufacturing operation. We need more in the US. To many limits w/ importation.

[blaser.306]

delete post.

[dg31872]

I suppose that powders are changing now because the dealers shelves are bare and we will be glad to get what we can.
Where will charge tables on the new powders come from? Our Lyman books will become obsolete.
I am glad I have a good supply. Maybe this will settle down before I need more.

[MrWolf]

I really liked International Clays for trap shooting. Tailored it to 16yd and handicap. Guess I am lucky my back is screwed so I can't shoot Trap anymore...

[sig2009]

Hodgedon=IDIOTS! Stop getting rid of perfectly good powders. They screwed us on the IMR powders and now this. My business goes elsewhere!

[Rick Hodges]

Hodgedon=IDIOTS! Stop getting rid of perfectly good powders. They screwed us on the IMR powders and now this. My business goes elsewhere!

It isn't Hodgdon, they buy the stuff from the Aussies. The Aussies are changing the manufacturing process and not making it anymore...so Hodgdon couldn't import it if it wanted to.

[jmort]

That was not the case with 4759, it was a business decision. I have no use for Hodgon.

[dragon813gt]

The business decision was the machinery was wearing out and it cost more to produce. Before the shortage 4759 collected dust on the shelf. Can't say I blame them for stopping production.

My concern is that we will end up w/ three powders to cover everything. This one size fits all approach never works on the consumers favor.

[pipehand]

I just picked up a 4 pound container of International a few weeks ago, after not seeing any of the ADI products for over a year. Now I find out that the whole line of products is going to change. I thought it was a Hodgdon's issue, as they haven't been real good at getting HP-38 and others on the shelf either. We'll adapt, I'm sure.

[runfiverun]

okay what is happening is that the powder manufacturers are being forced to clean their act up literally.
there are new more stringent laws in place dealing with waste and more importantly industrial waste.
the Europeans laws are much more stringent than the laws here in America and elsewhere but they won't allow imports that don't meet those standards enter the country.

all of the new powders meet those standards [see the new induron series from hodgdon] and are gonna become mainstream items, followed by more and more reformulated old powders or new offerings being made with different base stocks..
you might as well get used to seeing it happen, and go with it.

[dtknowles]

Aren't their more different powder than there ever were? It seems to me new powders are released all the time but only once in a while do they discontinue one or two.

Tim

[Fishman]

Oh no the world as we know it is ending.

[376Steyr]

I'm still shook up over DuPont dropping good old MR-17 1/2 in favor of those new-fangled IMR powders like 4895 and 4350.

[jameslovesjammie]

I wonder if it has anything to do with the rebuilding of the powder factory after it burned down in 2012/2013. New construction may have to abide by different environmental rules.

[KYCaster]

Hodgedon=IDIOTS! Stop getting rid of perfectly good powders. They screwed us on the IMR powders and now this. My business goes elsewhere!


That was not the case with 4759, it was a business decision. I have no use for Hodgon.



Why are you blaming Hodgdon?

Hodgdon doesn't manufacture anything. Hodgdon buys powders from various manufacturing companies and sells it to retailers who sell to you.

If the manufacturer decides to stop making a particular powder, how is Hodgdon to blame? They can't buy something that isn't available.

Jerry

[blaser.306]

Smoke and mirrors! The type of powder and part #'s mean nothing if they are never available???

[Beagle333]

Times, they are a' changin'. :neutral: First, you start using them fancy brass ca'tridges, then you start putting smokeless powder in em, then you start paintin' and colorin' your boolits, then you start getting rid of some of them smokeless powders you was once so fond of.... what's next? Allowin' girls in the shooting clubs? :shock: Tarnation!!!

[bhn22]

Oh no the world as we know it is ending.

Yup. I just heard from Rumor Control that the new powders will all become inert after one year. [smilie=l:

[btroj]

This is the Doe Run of powder!

Where is Chicken Little when you need him?

[Nicholas]

I think everyone should panic and run out and buy every last one of their powders that can be found. Hey, that sounds like a marketing strategy to clear out the remaining stocks.

And I had a favorite lite 7/8 oz 12 gage skeet load using Clays. What will I do, now? Probably just cruise through my manuals and find another similar load after my small remaining hoard of Clays is used up. That might even be fun!

[Dhammer]

Sucks I use both. Had to stock up on the SR4759 for my Savage. New isn't always better in powder game. Been through it since my child hood and still remember, they hey this new stuff will be better and wasn't. Good or bad/ don't have either locally so no getting in trouble trying to stock up with the house boss.

[Beau Cassidy]

Well ****. Guess I will just have to make to with the 25 or so pounds of clays and 11 or 12 pounds of international I have...

Best I can tell, as of late, the newer powders have been good. Real good. BE-86 is a perfect example. Others have been CFE223 and CFE pistol.

[fryboy]

plus's and minus's .... the newer powders are quicker,easier,safer and cheaper to make ...however sadly that last only seems to apply to the manufacturers .... as the newer powders i've seen hit the shelfs are higher priced ( anyone else recall when unleaded gas was cheaper at the pump and then slowly eclipsed regular in pricing ? and then again with ethanol blended )

[220]

If the manufacturer decides to stop making a particular powder, how is Hodgdon to blame? They can't buy something that isn't available.


They do have a bit of pull with ADI, in the past they have had ADI slightly change the burn rate of powders to better suit them.
End result is usually the original powder being discontinued here in Aus as the sales volume doesn't justify a production run and we get the modified burn rate powder.

[TXGunNut]

I've been reading up on the new powders in the Hodgdon annuals, interesting stuff.

[greywolf444]

I can't help but wonder if the new powdwers will have the same shelf life as the old ones. Really, in the midst of a severe shortage you dump all your proven products and go green. Convince me its not true.

[John Boy]

http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/burn_rates.pdf
Pick your favorite powder on the comparative RQ table as an alternative:
* If it doesn't have a comparative RQ from a different vendor ... new load development needed from a burn rate table that is close!
http://www.reloadersnest.com/burnrates.asp

Or start shooting black powder! Plenty different vendor's grades in the US market and always available

[garym1a2]

Just stock up on Bullseye, 4227 and 4895 and you can shoot everthing that needs shooting.

[GaryN]

That was not the case with 4759, it was a business decision. I have no use for Hodgon.

Hmmm, My jug says IMR 4759.

[runfiverun]

it could say du-pont 4759 on it they still ain't gonna make it.
hodgdons carry's the Winchester, imr, and hodgdons line now.
so one company 3 lines [of mostly the same stuff] that's a big ol hit to the market if something were to happen to their supply line.

[bhn22]

The Freedom Group of gun powder. Take Hodgdons out, and Winchester, ADI, and IMR have to re-establish distribution chains.

[butch2570]

Saw the first keg of universal here in a looooooonnnngggg time today, yep, $219 plus tax, glad I don't use it, I got the keg of unique sitting beside it though, alot cheaper too.

[rsrocket1]

How much are they charging for Unique out there? Alliant shotgun/pistol powders are still $20/# or $120/8# out here when available which tells me either the store signed a long term contract at that price (unlikely) or that Alliant hasn't been raising their prices and it's the middlemen or dealers who have been doing the markups. :mad:

[dragon813gt]

or that Alliant hasn't been raising their prices and it's the middlemen or dealers who have been doing the markups. :mad:

You nailed it. The manufacturers haven't raised their prices that much.

[Jtarm]

I think everyone should panic and run out and buy every last one of their powders that can be found.


Yeah, like that's not already happening!

RIP, Clays. It was a great run. Guess I'll go ahead and use that last 1.5 lbs.

Anything with the same burn rate that's anywhere near as clean?

[Nueces]

Clays used to be a favorite cowboy action powder, until Trail Boss turned everybody's head. I've not used either, but did some research when looking for a replacement for 231 and came across Alliant Clay Dot, which was touted as a Clays replacement. Been shooting it in the 45 Colt with 200 grain slugs. It meters nicely in my Redding 10X and is cleaner than 231. I like it.

[Lowpower]

Clays used to be a favorite cowboy action powder, until Trail Boss turned everybody's head. I've not used either, but did some research when looking for a replacement for 231 and came across Alliant Clay Dot, which was touted as a Clays replacement. Been shooting it in the 45 Colt with 200 grain slugs. It meters nicely in my Redding 10X and is cleaner than 231. I like it.

What's the powder range for the Clay Dot using 200 gr pills in the .45 Colt? I am beginning to get low on W231 which I've been using for years. It would be nice to come across a cleaner burning powder. Thanks.

[Nueces]

I've been using 5 grains Clay Dot under the 200 grain RNFP. Good for all our knock down targets.

[daniel lawecki]

That was my favorite powder for .38 special & .45 ACP & .45 LC. Used a lot of kegs Clays RIP old friend. But if you look at the burn rate chart this is only the beginning of a long list of powder that will die on the vine.

[Black Powder Bill]

I'll use what little I have left of UC. Then make the full move over Expansion Industries repackaged Spanish powder.
Even mynwholesale prices are higher than some of the cost per lb posted here.

[bangerjim]

I'll use what little I have left of UC. Then make the full move over Expansion Industries repackaged Spanish powder.
Even mynwholesale prices are higher than some of the cost per lb posted here.

I and many have had excellent results with the EI ETR7 powder. I use it in all pistol loads I do. Extremely clean. Pretty inexpensive. Readily available. Have used a lot of Clays and ETR7, I believe is, cleaner. Heck, anything is cleaner that Unique or 231.

banger

[Blackwater]

Re Unique, I got an email from Midway yesterday evening that they had Unique in 8 lb'ers, and called two buddies to see if they wanted any. One did, and when I went back to the site to order, it was already gone! DANG! That HURT!!!! It's at least encouraging that SOME powders are reappearing. For a while, they were made of unobtainium, it seems, and the NEXT time Unique becomes available, I'll pull the trigger right THEN, and let my buddies fend for themselves. I'm tired of waiting, and like the old buzzard on the limb, "if something doesn't die pretty soon, I'm gonna' go kill something." Good luck guys! It's tough out there!!!

[bangerjim]

Re Unique, I got an email from Midway yesterday evening that they had Unique in 8 lb'ers, and called two buddies to see if they wanted any. One did, and when I went back to the site to order, it was already gone! DANG! That HURT!!!! It's at least encouraging that SOME powders are reappearing. For a while, they were made of unobtainium, it seems, and the NEXT time Unique becomes available, I'll pull the trigger right THEN, and let my buddies fend for themselves. I'm tired of waiting, and like the old buzzard on the limb, "if something doesn't die pretty soon, I'm gonna' go kill something." Good luck guys! It's tough out there!!!

Try ETR7......you will be amazed and not use Unique ever again!

banger

[GBertolet]

ADI has had an update on their website, stating that they will be still manufacturing the Clays line until early 2016. 2015 is to be a transition year between the old and new lines of powder. Whether you will find any new Clays (AS30N) imported during that time frame to the U.S., is uncertain.

[Black Powder Bill]

I have purchased powder over the past two years thinking others would want some of it some did and most didn't Well like Blackwater stated by the time you call you friends the powder is gone!
It's like people think powder will be back down at $15.00 per pound and 45.00 4 pounders with Promo at $72.00 an 8lb jug.

Then we have the "whistling gophers" who's last powder purchase was a can of Bullseye at $2.95 a can. When you tell them what a pound will cost they roll their eyes , moan and whistle and make you an offer.

Then they drive off looking for a better deal.

We may never see our old favorites again on the LGS shelf. Like in the past it will appear by those who bought up powder expecting to make a fast buck. They will sell at a lower cost than what it was purchased at. It's just a matter of time and the short term business will look to liquidate their stock.

[billt]

Well, it is now 8 years later. Does any truth remain to this? If this stuff was discontinued 8 years ago, I doubt places would still be taking E-Mail notification orders for it. It would have been long forgotten about.

[Baltimoreed]

Clays, Clay Dot and Red Dot are about all I use anymore for .38 and .45 acp/colt handgun ammo. Was using Bullseye but have only been able to trade into some. Can’t find it.

[billt]

Clays, Clay Dot and Red Dot are about all I use anymore for .38 and .45 acp/colt handgun ammo. Was using Bullseye but have only been able to trade into some. Can’t find it.

Have you purchased any lately?

[dverna]

International is hard to get according to my buddy in MN who uses it for trap handicap loads.

I sold him 24 lbs a couple of weeks ago and he was ecstatic. He gave more than my asking price and called it a "delivery fee". Glad I sold it to someone who really appreciates it and uses it for competitive shooting. Sold him 64 lbs of Promo as well.

The "delivery fee" was a bunch of BS as we had planned the visit for months.

[Half Dog]

As I understand the situation; the company, that is in Canada, stopped making Clays and is focusing on supplying powder to support the Ukrainian conflict.

[bruce381]

what till we start getting china or russian powders LOL

[deces]

what till we start getting china or russian powders LOL

We just gotta lose the big war, then we can order primers off aliexpress with no hazmat, like the rest of the free people of the world.