310 tool questions

[wonderwolf]

I'll admit I've always been kind of "blind" when I've seen the tong type tools at gunshows and such, recently I've been going back to "simpler" things like lee loaders just to experiment with and toy with as I have more time than I should to load ammo these days. Anyways I've become very interested in the Lyman 310 tools, I've read some interesting history on them but still have a question.

Do you have to have the small size tong tool to load something like 38/357 or can you load them on the large tong tool?

How can you tell the sizes apart?

and lastly does the straight wall cases like 38/357 get full length sized or are they too just "neck sized" like everything else I'm reading. I wanna say they would be FL but at this point I'm not assuming anything.


I'm suddenly interested in this tool because there is one in an reloading equipment estate that I'll be picking up this weekend and like I said above, never really considered them before/ didn't realize 310 dies could be used in them. Wished they made the 310 in carbide for 38/357.....:shock:

[3006guns]

The small size has a shorter "snout"......(where the die screws in) compared to the longer "snout" on the large handles. Otherwise they're physically the same size. I only used the rifle caliber dies, so my handles are all large, but I believe you can use either......BUT, that's determined by the length of the die. If you have a very short die, say .38 S&W, it wouldn't thread into the large handles far enough to deprime or resize the case mouth. If I'm incorrect on this, someone please jump in.

The dies neck size only, even in the pistol calibers.

You'll need some white graphite (motor mica) for a case neck lube, although there may be others. With the standard set you deprime, resize, reprime, expand the case mouth, charge powder and seat bullet. this normally takes at least five dies, although Lyman did make a combination sizer/expander die (similar to a standard resizing die) towards the end of manufacture that reduced the number to four.

One caution........and believe me, I found out the hard way........set the depriming pin so that it just BARELY pops out the primer. Since the handles swing in an arc, if you have the pin out too far it will be bent one way removing the primer and then bent back the other way when you withdraw the case. Doesn't take many cycles of that before the pin goes "twink". Better have a few replacements on hand (The 310 Shop in Texas).

[wonderwolf]

Would that decapping pin be something easy to fab on a lathe ? :)

[3006guns]

Would that decapping pin be something easy to fab on a lathe ? :)

If it's a jeweler's lathe.........they're pretty small. Rick at the 310 Shop has all you'll ever need and they're cheap. Since I discovered the "set 'em short" trick I stopped breaking them, although I keep five or so spares with my kit "just in case".

Something else I forgot to mention: Like all reloading tools, overall case length is very important and more so with the 310. If your cases are not all checked/trimmed to the same length you'll encounter problems when seating and crimping. Not so much with the pistol calibers, but definitely in the longer rifle calibers.

[woody1]

The long and short of it: 134649
You definitely cannot use the same handles for all cartridges. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. If you're looking at handguns, opt for short handles. There's loads of info re: 310 and Truline Jr. reloading in some of the old(er) Lyman handbooks and several are available for download at Castpics.

Regards, Woody

[catskinner]

Caution! The neck sizing die with an expander ball like a standard 7/8-14 resizing die is intended for use in the TL Jr. only. I used one in the 310 handles and found out that the extractor hook swings away from the case before the case mouth is pulled over the expander ball and can't pull the case out of the die. I had to saw the head off the case and then unscrew the decapping stem to get everything out.

[3006guns]

Caution! The neck sizing die with an expander ball like a standard 7/8-14 resizing die is intended for use in the TL Jr. only. I used one in the 310 handles and found out that the extractor hook swings away from the case before the case mouth is pulled over the expander ball and can't pull the case out of the die. I had to saw the head off the case and then unscrew the decapping stem to get everything out.

Wow..........that's a new one. I won a set of 6.5 Jap dies in an Ebay auction, but they're actually Truline dies so I'll have to take a look at that expander ball now. Thanks for the info!

[wonderwolf]

Looks like the 310 tool I got is a large handle, with what looks like a universal decap? I don't see any numbers, sadly there was only one die with the tool. The gentleman who owned this stuff previously was very utilitarian it seems as he has all hand tools to reload with several B&M pieces of equipment, a pak tool and such.

I would like to get everything together that would be needed to reload .38/357 with the 310 so I guess I'll do some more reading and start hunting around. I'm guessing the short nature of the cartridge would dictate I get a "small" handle set I suppose.

ONE more question, is there any reason or variation to the 310 tools that have specific calibers stamped on them? And how important is the size of the collets that are at the bottom of the threaded portion?

[Bent Ramrod]

The ones with specific calibers stamped on them are typically the purple colored steel tools. The hole in the handle at the spigot for the die is sized for that particular cartridge case. Later on, it was found to be less expensive to bore and thread the handles for a universal insert, which could be bored as needed to fit whatever cartridge the customer wanted to load. A single handle with several of these inserts would be able to load several cartridges, just as a press with several shell holders is set up to load those cartridges. They ran out of the steel handles shortly after this changeover and went to the black painted aluminum handles.

The Universal decapper came in only two sizes, long and short.

If you are looking for a set of .38 Special/.357 Magnum 310 dies, the Priming Chamber should be marked "1," the Decapping Chamber (which you have) should be the Large size (but I bet you could make due with the Small, in a pinch), the Muzzle Resizer (Neck Sizing Die) and the bodies for the Expanding Chamber and the Seating Chamber should be marked 95, the Expanding Plug 358, and the Seating Screw should have the last three numbers of your Ideal boolit mould.

Later Expanding and Seating Dies will have the caliber marked on them instead of the number. As has been mentioned, avoid the ones with the suffix "D-A;" these are the ones for the Tru-Line Jr.

[Wayne Smith]

Thanks for that picture, Woody. I guess I need a set of small handles to do my 32S&W the easy way!

[woody1]

I'm dead certain you won't be able to use large handles to load 32 S&W! A 32 WCF mebe, I don't know. You know there's enough of us around with complete setups that mebe we could fool around and check out some of these questions. I know I've loaded some cartridges with no dies made specifically for them.

wonderwolf, I'll round up a large handle and some 38/357 dies and see if they'll work. Seems like I did this once and the only thing I couldn't do was crimp but we'll see. As far as the specific caliber handles, they'll work for any cartridge in the same family ie, 30-30 will load 32 Win Spl. 32-40, 35-35, etc. I have one in 257 Robts. that can load anything in the 30-06 family and obviously 7x57mm and all those also. I believe the collets you referred to are the adapter dies, the little screw in thingies for adapting the newer aluminum handles for various cartridge families.

Here ya go, every little thing you wanted to know>>>>>>>>>.
http://ps-2.kev009.com/ohlandl/310/Lyman_310_Tool.html

Regards, Woody

[Green Frog]

Caution! The neck sizing die with an expander ball like a standard 7/8-14 resizing die is intended for use in the TL Jr. only. I used one in the 310 handles and found out that the extractor hook swings away from the case before the case mouth is pulled over the expander ball and can't pull the case out of the die. I had to saw the head off the case and then unscrew the decapping stem to get everything out.

I assume you are talking about dies for a bottleneck rifle case? I've never seen such dies for a pistol case (at least I don't recall any, but it's been about 40 years I've been using them, so there could have been one or two! :-?) That would cause a serious hang-up, for sure.

I actually prefer the 5 die sets that perform each step separately since there is less strain on the equipment (and the operator) this way. I can get by with decapping and neck sizing as long as the sizing part is not too extreme.

While Bent_Ramrod says, "Later Expanding and Seating Dies will have the caliber marked on them instead of the number. As has been mentioned, avoid the ones with the suffix "D-A;" these are the ones for the Tru-Line Jr." I've never seen a set that does not seat and crimp at the same time... but that is the only combined step that I normally do since you seat almost all the way before any crimping starts with a properly adjusted die. What am I missing, Mr Ramrod, did you perhaps mean "CMR" instead of "D-A" in your caution?

BTW, back to the large vs small handles question, there are 3 lengths of dies for the expander balls, and if you get a long die with a short stem, a too-large handle will give you problems. I try to keep some spare die bodies to "tune" my die sets as needed. I find that I do a lot of mixing and matching with die parts to make semi-custom sets that work to suit my loading style and technique, but that's easily done with my 40 year accumulation of misc. dies! :mrgreen: Now my goal is to have a hybrid set for each caliber I load frequently so I can load with it in both the proper handle and my TruLine Jr press. Works for me! :p

Froggie

PS You can take the expander ball off the stem of the decapper and just use a regular small nut, then use a 6.5 (.257) expander stem with a separate expander die... problem solved! ;)

[woody1]

You can load 38/357 with large 310 tool handles. At least I can with the handles I used. I used a generic decapper. Actually it was a 243-244-6mm rem. CMR but lots of others would work also as long as they're smaller than 357 and the body is large enough to basically not do anything except punch the primer out. I resized using a 38 Special CMR with the guts taken out and only sized about half of the cases. I should have tried it with a real 38/357 MR but I didn't. It might be too short. Mebe I'll hunt one up and try it. I primed the cases with a standard #1 priming chamber, expanded case necks with a .358 plug in what I think is the standard chamber for 38/357. I seated and crimped with a #95 seat die with a 311 seating screw.

Regards, Woody

PS - you may have to take a lock ring or 2 off to get dies seated deep enough.

[Bent Ramrod]

Of course it was "CMR" and not "D-A," GF. Couldn't for the life of me remember, and most of my references are packed away at the moment. Apologies to all.

Should be easy to find a 38/357 die set for the 310. That, and the set for the .30-06, seems to be what I encounter 90% of the time at Gun Shows.

[Green Frog]

Wonderwolf, I'm pretty sure I could cobble together a usable set of dies in 38/357, but like the others, I don't know whether it would work with your current set of (large) handles. If you want to load for a rifle, I think I can gather up a 30-06 set (which would also probably work for 308/7.62 NATO) and a 222 set which can be used for 5.56/223 with your large handles. I'm sorry, but I don't think I have a spare set of small handles. That Universal Decapper you already own is by its very nature a very useful die regardless of what caliber you want to work with. Drop me a PM if there is anything I can do to help you get going with your new 310 interest.

Froggie

PS I just made the connection WW. Maybe I could trade you some dies you need for some cleaning rod segments or something. GF

[wonderwolf]

Still kind of kicking around the idea of getting a set of tools, I'm moving to a smaller place for awhile in 2 months (literally a 6'x8' room in a rooming house) while I finish up work in Ohio before I follow my girlfriend down to TN. anyways this move has me really wanting to get set up with one of these as I will have NOTHING to do besides work and reading.

[Jon K]

If the price is cheap enough...get it.
Works good as a decapper, you can later put together handles & dies as you want for it.
Takes up very little storage space...

Jon

[richhodg66]

Which size handles would a guy need for .22 Hornet, small or large? Gonna give one of these set ups a try soon, dies are coming so I need to get some handles.

[Mk42gunner]

I would go with the small handles for the .22 Hornet. The steel caliber specific Hornet set I have is a lot closer in size to the small handle than the large one.

Don't forget you will also need the case adapter to fit the handle.

Robert

[What Cheer]

My steel handled .22 Hornet set is also very close to the small handle size. The aluminum handled .22 Hornet sets that I have seen all hAve had small handles.

[What Cheer]

The steel handles with my .22 Hornet set are also very close to the small size. I have seen several aluminum handled Hornet sets and they have all had small handles.

The adapter die is number 4.

Best regards,

What Cheer

[richhodg66]

Thanks. Guess I need to read up some more, what is the case adapter? Is it like a shell holder?

[Wayne Smith]

The universal handles have, obviously, a single sized hole in them for the cartridge. The adapter sizes the hole to the appropriate size for the cartridge in question. Thus the same handles can load a 45ACP and a 25ACP.

[richhodg66]

OK, guess there's one more thing I'll have to find.

[wonderwolf]

OK, guess there's one more thing I'll have to find.

Isn't there always?

[richhodg66]

Well, yeah, but you know, you're gonna spend your time and money on something, might as well be something that interests you.

[What Cheer]

richhodg66,

If you got the .22 Hornet set that was on the WTS board recently, the seller said it had the adapter die.

I have an extra set of small aluminum handles, if you need them send me a PM.


What Cheer

[richhodg66]

It is indeed that set of dies and thanks for that information, guess I didn't pay close enough attention to it. Thanks also for the offer of the handles. I'll send you a PM.

[wonderwolf]

This always seems to happen to me, I forgot I put a bid in on a 310 die set and I ended up winning them. I got a very clean set and tong tool from another member here and comparing the two the expander balls are different? I guess this is what catskinner was talking about on page 1? One is also a 5 die set and the other is a 4. So I'm guessing the 5 die set is for the tru-line press? But it seems to me it would work just fine with the tong tool.

One die looks like a taper crimp die? I'll see about pictures later as I'm still a little confused on why the variations in dies and cleaning up the office space right now.

[wonderwolf]

1st pic, left plug is from 4 die set, right is from the 5 die set
143055
2nd picture, left die is from 4 die set, right is from 5 die. The left die sizes and decaps? I guess combining what in the 5 die set would be the right die and the die pictured in the last picture?
143056

143057

[What Cheer]

The original die sets for the 310 tool were 5 die sets. Sometime in the early to mid 1960s Lyman changed to a 4 die set for the 310 tools. The 5 die sets have a decapping chamber (die), and a muzzle resizer chamber (die). In the 4 die sets these two functions, decapping and muzzle resizing, are performed by a single chamber, the combination muzzle resizer,CMR.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,

What Cheer

[catskinner]

The expander ball I mentioned in the TL jr set is in the decapping and neck sizing die.

[wonderwolf]

Thanks for the information, looks like the 4 die set is the one to retain, the expander ball looks a little better designed as well but only use and time will tell I guess.

[wonderwolf]

The expander ball I mentioned in the TL jr set is in the decapping and neck sizing die.
So you're talking about the ball that uniforms a rifle case neck not a flare type ball/setup

I wonder what the reason behind the design change between my tool flare die's are

[catskinner]

wonderwolf, Looking at the pictures in post#30 neither die has the expander I was warning you about. Expander ball I'm talking about works like the one in a 7/8x14 sizing die for bottle neck cases. Hope I'm making this clear and understandable.

[Mk42gunner]

...I wonder what the reason behind the design change between my tool flare die's are

Wonderwolf, there are more than two designs I think. I seem to remember CharGar showing pictures of three or four differing expander plugs for the same diameter.

As long as they work, it doesn't really matter....

Robert

[Green Frog]

Wonderwolf, there are more than two designs I think. I seem to remember CharGar showing pictures of three or four differing expander plugs for the same diameter.

As long as they work, it doesn't really matter....

Robert

The one catskinner mentions for the TL Jr will not work for the 310 tool. It is used with bottle neck cases and expands the neck on the upstroke as you pull the case out of the die. The 310 doesn't have the leverage to accomplish this. In addition, some of the expander plugs can't be adjusted high enough in the 310 or low enough in the TL Jr to hit the right region of the case, so they definitely don't

Froggiework.

[Mk42gunner]

Froggie,

I was referring to the expanders shown in wonderwolf's top picture. The one with a wasp waist and one that looks like an M die expander.

Robert

[Green Frog]

Gotcha, Mk42gunner. Now I'm on the same page with you. It seems like there have been a number of variations on those one piece expander plugs over the 100+ years they have been made, then the expander balls that were used on the decapping stem seem to complicate the picture even more. These latter interchangeable expander balls are the ones that I was worried about having someone mistakenly use with a tong tool, causing all manner of difficulty. Another concern (just to add to the confusion) is getting the right length expanding plug and die body for the shortest (or for that matter, longest) cases.

Best regards,
Froggie

[wonderwolf]

Do you have a picture of the expander plug that should NOT be used with the 310 tong handles? I imagine if this is a issue now a picture would greatly help somebody in the future avoid or understand their problem.

[Char-Gar]

Either one of the expander plugs pictured above will work with a 310 tool. Lyman seems to have difficulty figuring out just what these kinds of gizmos should look like (see pic below). On top they will be marked either .357 or .358. I have both.

I have put together a rather complete set of 310 dies for the 38 Special/357 Mag, will several expanders and seating dies with plugs. I use an pre-war Lyman/Ideal No. 3 set of handles. I load lots of ammo with it.

I also have a Lyman Tru-Line Jr. press set up just for 38 Special. It has a FL size die which BTW sizes 357 Mag cases as well. Lyman can be tricky about such things, stamping the same die 38 Spl. or 357Mag to sell more dies.

Lots of fun to be hand with old school reloading tools and the ammo produced is as good as what can be produced on a $2,000.00 super duper double thrown down progressive press.

[wonderwolf]

I'll admit it is very fun to load with the 310 tong tool, but I had some run out issues with bullets. I need to check my case OAL's next time as I was getting some huge variations. Bullets might have been at fault as well since the soft HP noses were swagging down a bit when lubersized.

[Char-Gar]

I'll admit it is very fun to load with the 310 tong tool, but I had some run out issues with bullets. I need to check my case OAL's next time as I was getting some huge variations. Bullets might have been at fault as well since the soft HP noses were swagging down a bit when lubersized.

Size your soft bullets in a Lee push through die, they make one in .358 and then lube in the machine with a .358 or .359 dies. There will be no distortion of the bullets that way. Cases need to be trimmed to a uniform length for a uniform crimp which produces accuracy.

I am been loading since 1958 without trying to bother with "run out" and never will. That is bench rest rifle stuff, not handgun. Use the right tools and there won't be a problem.

[wonderwolf]

Size your soft bullets in a Lee push through die, they make one in .358 and then lube in the machine with a .358 or .359 dies. There will be no distortion of the bullets that way. Cases need to be trimmed to a uniform length for a uniform crimp which produces accuracy.

I am been loading since 1958 without trying to bother with "run out" and never will. That is bench rest rifle stuff, not handgun. Use the right tools and there won't be a problem.

It was more of a issue of pressure at the bottom of the stroke after the ram stopped. I didn't have the plunger adjusted right for the taller bullet as the last thing I had sized in the 4500 was the short 358101 75gr wadcutter for the 38/357. You mean I shouldn't be weighing my brass and uniforming primer pockets/holes? hehe

I do like that idea of presizing the bullets though, This one was one of mihecs molds that drop bullets only .0005" over what I'm sizing them at so there is little to no resistance. I'll keep that trick in mind for future reference. I did buy a .358-9 lee sizer for possible tumble lube bullet acquisitions in the future and to also to size down .375 round balls to .358 to give me some bearing surface for "gallery loads" although the lighter aforementioned 75gr wadcutter has proven useful for that role as well.

[Char-Gar]

It was more of a issue of pressure at the bottom of the stroke after the ram stopped. I didn't have the plunger adjusted right for the taller bullet as the last thing I had sized in the 4500 was the short 358101 75gr wadcutter for the 38/357. You mean I shouldn't be weighing my brass and uniforming primer pockets/holes? hehe

I do like that idea of presizing the bullets though, This one was one of mihecs molds that drop bullets only .0005" over what I'm sizing them at so there is little to no resistance. I'll keep that trick in mind for future reference. I did buy a .358-9 lee sizer for possible tumble lube bullet acquisitions in the future and to also to size down .375 round balls to .358 to give me some bearing surface for "gallery loads" although the lighter aforementioned 75gr wadcutter has proven useful for that role as well.

I size nothing with pressure on the nose. I only size nose first with pressure on the base. The billets are then lubed in a machine with the same size or .001 larger.

[wonderwolf]

Is there any markings on the Universal decapping die? I think the one I have is the "long" version. seems to work ok for .38/357

[Green Frog]

Is there any markings on the Universal decapping die? I think the one I have is the "long" version. seems to work ok for .38/357

AFAIK, there is no reason that a long Universal Decapping Die shouldn't be usable for virtually all rifle and handgun cases. If it's long enough, there is no reason for concern that it might be TOO long.

Froggie

[44magLeo]

Case length variation isn't that big a problem. Seat the bullets a bit long. Seat bullets in, say 50 cases, look at the cases, you can see just how they are. Some may be ok Some need a bit deeper. Sort them out, adjust to seat the bullet deeper. Reseat the long ones, repeat till all look good.
Start with a short one. Adjust the crimp so it's good. Crimp a few ones to get a feel for the effort to crimp them. As you go along just be consistent on the force and the crimp will be consistent on all the case regardless of length.
Some of the most accurate loads I have ever used came out of my 310 tool for 44 special/mag.
Leo

[Pavogrande]

Here is a photo of the offending expander button -- These are EZ-loader/ Tru-line dies -
The deCap/ expander rod is threaded a bit longer at the bottom as the button is threaded --

[Green Frog]

Here is a photo of the offending expander button -- These are EZ-loader/ Tru-line dies -
The deCap/ expander rod is threaded a bit longer at the bottom as the button is threaded --

Yep, that set is probably going to give you headaches with a tong tool. If you just replace the die and stem in the middle with a solid expander plug die, you'll probably be good to go. For decapping and sizing, you could just take the expander ball off your stem and let that die decap and neck size... some of the 310 sets had a die like that. That should give you a die to decap and neck size, one to expand, and one to seat the bullet and crimp (or remove the mouth bell anyway.) Have you found the #26 priming chamber you need yet or are you priming some other way?

Froggie

[Char-Gar]

Yep, one of those Tru-Line Jr. neck size dies with the internal expander will cause you to bust a gut trying to use it with a 310 tong tool. I have tried it to find out just how hard. One case was enough for me.

However you can remove the decapping/expanding rod and the die sizes case necks just fine in a 310 tool.

[Pavogrande]

Oh, I don't try to use them as 310 dies -- learned that lesson many years ago -
I have even found tru-line CMR dies with the standard 7/8 die expander button installed.
It seem the thread is the same -- 6-48 if i recall correctly --
Apparently the decap rod with the 10/32 thread is the only standard thread used by lyman.

the variation in 310/tru-line/ ez-loader dies makes for some interesting head scratching sessions --

[wonderwolf]

I just got a huge lot of 310 dies from another member on this forum, going through them I have found a lot of variations in dies. I'm sure if I don't get called into work someday this week I'll be trying to figure out what everything is. Already ran into some mysteries

[Wayne Smith]

I just got a huge lot of 310 dies from another member on this forum, going through them I have found a lot of variations in dies. I'm sure if I don't get called into work someday this week I'll be trying to figure out what everything is. Already ran into some mysteries

Ahh, what a problem to have! Only when I am retired and have the time do I wish it on me, though. Not now.

[wonderwolf]

So why does the button pictured in #49 give so many problems? is it the shape or the placement of the button when it comes to the opening of the tongs (if you were uninformed and using tongs I guess). I'm including a picture of a decap/expander rod out of a 30-30 CMR die...is this standard for the tong tools? Does a seperate expander button dictate that its a die set/rod for a ezy loader or Tru line. I guess I'm asking how to tell them apart.

145169

[Green Frog]

So why does the button pictured in #49 give so many problems? is it the shape or the placement of the button when it comes to the opening of the tongs (if you were uninformed and using tongs I guess). I'm including a picture of a decap/expander rod out of a 30-30 CMR die...is this standard for the tong tools? Does a seperate expander button dictate that its a die set/rod for a ezy loader or Tru line. I guess I'm asking how to tell them apart.

145169

That's definitely a TruLine Jr die. You expand the neck going in, then close it down when you reach the bottom of your stroke, then have to open it back up AGAIN to get the expander ball back through. Take the ball off and just decap and neck size with that die then use a separate expander die and ball and you will be good to go. You will need to acquire one of the little knurled knobs to hold the decapping pin on the stem.

Froggie

[woody1]

So why does the button pictured in #49 give so many problems? See posts 6 and 51. is it the shape or the placement of the button when it comes to the opening of the tongs (if you were uninformed and using tongs I guess). I'm including a picture of a decap/expander rod out of a 30-30 CMR die...is this standard for the tong tools? No, it's for the Tru-line. Does a seperate expander button dictate that its a die set/rod for a ezy loader or Tru line. No, separate expander came with tong tool dies. The plugs are similar to M dies. Pictures are included elsewhere in this thread. I guess I'm asking how to tell them apart.

145169

Regards, Woody

[wonderwolf]

Regards, Woody

Ok, somewhere along the line the dies got switched with the rod as the die body is stamped CMR SO what we are getting to here is basically you have to have a die set where case mouth expansion is its own die? any die with expanding combined with sizing is no go for the tong tool!?

[woody1]

Yes. Tong tools take minimum of 4 dies; decap+neck size, neck expand, re-prime, seat+crimp.
Regards, Woody

[woody1]

FWIW there's a pretty good treatise on "Handloading With Tong Tools" complete with pictures in the NRA Illustrated Reloading Handbook. It's available for your review and downloading at Castpics. There are also instructions on using Lyman's reloading tools in the various Lyman Handbooks some of which are also on Castpics. Regards, Woody

[Green Frog]

Ok, somewhere along the line the dies got switched with the rod as the die body is stamped CMR SO what we are getting to here is basically you have to have a die set where case mouth expansion is its own die? any die with expanding combined with sizing is no go for the tong tool!?

The letters "CMR" stand for "combination muzzle resizer" and generally with the 310 tools that "combination" was decapping and what we currently refer to as neck sizing. With the TL Jr sets of dies, the neck expanding was added as a sort of bonus (actually to save having another die.) If you were loading jsacketed rifle bullets, this was fine, but lead bullets like a little more of a bevel to start without shaving. This is the most obvious instance in which the difference between TL Jr and 310 dies made a real difference! I have seen die sets, purportedly for the 310, that had a CMR with a plain, no expander shank, and ones with a"universal" decapper and separate MR (muzzle resizer) die... both seem to work about equally well IMHO. In my experience, the 310 die sets ALWAYS have a separate case mouth expander die, a la the currently available "M" dies.

Regards,
Froggie

[What Cheer]

Froggie, an excellent explanation of the dies.

When Lyman changed the 310 sets from 5 dies to 4 dies in the early 1960s, we believe, the CMR became a standard componet, and it still is.

Best regards,

What Cheer

[Pavogrande]

310 -- tru-line - ez loader dies are at best a never ending confusion --
As other have said --
I think the CMR without the expander button did and has replaced the MR die -
The CMR with expander button is intended for the tru-line and ez-loader --

Now the Decap dies --
I have only seen two variations, both the same length but with different diameter decap/exp rod threads.
A .395x30 thread with a .280 dia rod and either a 6-48 or 10-36 decap pin nut --
A more common rod is 10-32 with a 6-48 decap pin nut --
Also, apparently some 310 sets use the decap body with the .395 thread as the "long"expanding die -
Replacing the decap rod with a "normal" expanding plug --
I have a set - originally boxed -- for both 6.5 & 7.7 jap which share these dies --

It will never be all sorted out!!

[What Cheer]

Pavogrande,

There is another decapping rod_ .395X30 thread .205 rod with a 6-48 Decapping pin nut. I have several decapping chambers with this rod.

I also have a Lyman Ammunition Maker set in .44 Special caliber with a decapping chamber marked_ 'EXP-DECAP-CH-LONG'.

We may never figure them out, but it is fun trying.

Best regards,

What Cheer

[wonderwolf]

Do we know how many lengths of 310 tong tool expander bodies there were? I've come across 3 so far

[Green Frog]

Do we know how many lengths of 310 tong tool expander bodies there were? I've come across 3 so far

Three lengths are all I've ever encountered.

[beagle]

Order from Lyman. Think the last pins I ordered were $.25 each. Drive you crazy on a lathe due to flex./beagle


Would that decapping pin be something easy to fab on a lathe ? :)

[wonderwolf]

I think I've finally got my head wrapped around the difference between the tong tool die sets and the press only sets. Its interesting to note all the differences in how parts were made through the years.

One last question, were the decap dies for the rifle tong tool sets all "universal" type? going through a bunch of dies I have and finding a lot of what I guess I would call a universal decapper although I'm sure that what it was used as before that term was adopted.

[ascast]

for OP, and others. I did not see it mentioned, but there are also LARGE frame, meaning they can be used for big bottom cartridges like 50-70, 348 Win, 43 Spanish etc. Essentially anything with a bigger base than 45-70. You will know quickly as your standard 310 dies will drop in the threaded hole. I think it .625" by 30 tpi vs .605" x 30 tpi for the standard. Going from memory there. Should you come across a set of the bigger holes, snap them up as they are not so common and should be very good trading stock.

[Bent Ramrod]

Ascast is right. Such handles are usually marked "S" or "Special." The only one I've seen was the purple steel version.

As far as I've seen, the decapping dies were universal, hollow cylinders with no support for the cartridge. They were either short or long. Some I've seen had thicker decapping stems, but most have the standard thin stem.

[wonderwolf]

Interesting on the larger sizes of handles, about the only thing I would have a need for with those would be my 50-140 and I'm thinking that might be a little TOO long.

I've been working on a information series on the lyman 310 tong tools and in my research I'm still learning more, I've also gone back and reread this thread twice already tonight. Lots of really good information here that would help a guy looking to load with the tong tools get his dies sorted out.

Like I mentioned in the OP I got started with the 310 because I was to be living in a very small apartment, I've since moved again but I'm looking at my 310 set up as a asset now, I loaded a LOT of ammo last year and plan to acquire some more die sets in calibers I rely on most. Having a complete reloading kit that fits in 1 tool box is really handy (no pun intended).

[wonderwolf]

How well does the typical cartridges loaded for automatics work, like 9mm and 45 ACP? I've been kicking around the idea of a 45 ACP set, can use in revolver as well but I know the 9mm is a strange one even for reloading presses from time to time to get right.

[Three44s]

Thanks folks for this thread and similar ones ......... I acquired a Truline Jr. press a few years ago ..... learned that the the "compound" version was better and got one of those as well.

Next a search for dies ......... had to be easy? Right?

Not so ......... LOL!

A few dies were gotten from forums and yet I have not tried to work anything up.

Fast forward to about three weeks ago and another forum member and I trundled off to a local flea market type of store that had a big pile of reloading stuff from an estate.

We bought it. What fun!

Now, I find as we dig through the treasures within ......... we find a bunch of 310 dies, tong tool and truline as well!

But alas, instead of the fog clearing ......... it's getting thicker!

I did an inventory run this AM and will post some pics and descriptions but is it too late to "run away"?

Three 44s

[Der Gebirgsjager]

"......is it too late to "run away"?

Three 44s

Sounds like the hook is set, Three4s....!

181911

[jrmartin1964]

How well does the typical cartridges loaded for automatics work, like 9mm and 45 ACP? I've been kicking around the idea of a 45 ACP set, can use in revolver as well but I know the 9mm is a strange one even for reloading presses from time to time to get right.

I have - and have used - a steel handled 310 set for 9mm Luger, along with the old style Full Length sizing die (the kind used in conjunction with an arbor press, or a hammer/mallet). I can say that no more problems were encountered using the 310 to load this cartridge than when using press-mounted dies.

[Three44s]

Sounds like the hook is set, Three4s....!

181911


Oh, I am afraid you are correct!

I was looking over at evilbay and gun broker and see a bunch of parts and pieces as well as sets and tong tools floating around .........

I am probably down the drain on this one! LOL!!

One thing about it ....... as I gather "sticks" together on this (like a bird building a nest) ....... if I ever wake from the trance ......... I can sell it off to some other hapless individual!!

Three 44s

[Green Frog]

Maybe not "down the drain," but at least circling it! Oh well, enjoy the ride, Three 44s. We've all taken it before (or are at least destined to if reading this.) Good luck with your latest "nest."


Froggie

[Three44s]

Hey, paint me foolish for expecting someone around these parts to help talk me out of "something gun"!

I will likely be selling some of it or offering for trades some of them however.

Best regards

Three 44s

[AZBronco]

I used the 310 tool for 10+ yrs. t0 re- load ammo for a 9mm pistol, with very good results. re:post # 72 question.

[Green Frog]

If you are going to reload 9 mm rounds from ANY semi-auto, but especially from say, a Glock, you may run into the need for full length sizing, which the 310 lacks. Lyman used to offer a pound through sizing die, but that's a collector's item now. :(

Froggie

[jrmartin1964]

Lyman used to offer a pound through sizing die, but that's a collector's item now. :(

Froggie

I was lucky...
194249

[ascast]

what size is that die? 9.5 mm?

[jrmartin1964]

what size is that die? 9.5 mm?

9 m/m Luger

[BrassMagnet]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by wonderwolf
Do we know how many lengths of 310 tong tool expander bodies there were?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Green Frog
Three lengths are all I've ever encountered.

I believe there are at least four:
Short, Medium, Long, and Special.

If I was forced to, I could probably go measure some for length. My chart shows "Special" for some calibers, and I may actually have them, but with pieced together sets, you never really know if you really have all of the correct parts.

[Green Frog]

Hey Brass Magnet, you wouldn't happen to have a set of 310 dies in 44-40, would you? If he doesn't, I'd be willing to talk to somebody else who might. I have good stuff to trade as well as a collection of pictures of dead presidents. ;-)

Froggie

[BrassMagnet]

Hey Brass Magnet, you wouldn't happen to have a set of 310 dies in 44-40, would you? If he doesn't, I'd be willing to talk to somebody else who might. I have good stuff to trade as well as a collection of pictures of dead presidents. ;-)

Froggie



I need 38-40 & 44-40, too!

[Frogfeatures]

Any idea what this is ?195390
has 338 stamped on it

[Green Frog]

It's a bullet sizer, brother! :mrgreen:

Supposedly they work with a tong tool, but I think I'd rather use one with a TruLine Jr.

Froggie

[woody1]

http://www.castpics.net/subsite2/HowTo/Sizing%20with%20the%20310%20Tool.pdf

[Wayne Smith]

They are hard enough with the 310, I can't imagine using one with the tong tool.

[woody1]

They are hard enough with the 310, I can't imagine using one with the tong tool.

................the 310 IS the tong tool

[Wayne Smith]

You're right, I meant the TrueLine Jr.

[dsh1106]

Any idea what this is ?195390
has 338 stamped on it


If you happen across the bullet seating die that goes with that piece, shoot me a PM.
I've been trying to complete my 310 die set for my .338 WM.

Scott

[Frogfeatures]

If you happen across the bullet seating die that goes with that piece, shoot me a PM.
I've been trying to complete my 310 die set for my .338 WM.

Scott

I'll keep a lookout :-)