Tumble lube question

[Leon Garfield]

I am shooting Lee 200g roud flat bullets that I have molded out of wheel weights. Sized to 452 then lubed with 45/45/10 shootin a sr1911 45acp. I get leadimg usimg this lube. I also have same bullet powder coated which i get zero leading very very clean barrel.
Do i need to do something diffrent when lubing to get rid of fouling? Maybe try using the old way and using lube ring? Different size on bullets? Whats your thoughts? Thanks

[bangerjim]

Do as I did over 1.5 years ago................dump grease and go 100% PC.. You can see what it does since you say you use it. Why do you need to use grease any more?

I shoot the same boolit with PC and no leading. I shoot ALL boolits 223-45 with NO LEADING with PC.

Go for it.......forget the grease.......forget the leading.......have more fun shooting with PC.

banger-j

[runfiverun]

if you have success with the p/c why change?
i don't p/c and have no issues with lubed boolits so i ain't changing.
if you want to use the 45/45/10 lube and not p/c then you are gonna have to look at why you are getting the leading, it's rarely the lubes fault.
it may be how [how much] is applied or the loading process.

[Wayne Smith]

Leading is usually size rather than lube. If the leading is only at the muzzle or just inside it may be lube running out. Otherwise it is fit. Adding PC increases your boolit diameter.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

snip...
Sized to 452 then lubed with 45/45/10 shootin a sr1911 45acp. I get leadimg usimg this lube.
...snip
My 2¢
If you want to solve this issue.

I'd double check the actual size that the sizer die is sizing your boolit too. after sizing a boolit, carefully remove all the lube, then measure the boolit with a micrometer, and measure in several places to be sure you boolit isnt getting sized 'out of round'.

Then I'd slug the bore...the nice thing about semi-auto pistols with a removeable barrel, they are easy to slug.

I assume you will find that your boolit will be smaller than your barrel groove diameter. One thing to try, if your boolits measure larger "unsized", is to load some of your boolits "unsized" and lubed with 45-45-10. If they pass the pluck test, try shooting them.

[mdi]

You aren't using a Lee Factory Crimp die, are you? Are you crimping separately from seating? Leading in a 45 ACP is usually from undersize bullets, so pull a loaded bullet and measure the diameter. Do you know the groove diameter of your barrel? (not what it's supposed to be, but what it actually is?). 45-45-10 is a good lube for 45 ACP and I use that a lot for mine w/no problems (200 SWC over W231).

[ShooterAZ]

The couple of Ruger 1911's I have handled had very sharp angled throats, where the chamber meets the rifling. This could possibly be the cause of your leading. It actually cuts the boolit. You may want to look at this, and possibly get it throated.

[Leon Garfield]

I have not plugged my barrel. The fouling starts right after the throat and runs up the barrel about 2 inchs. Seems to be worse on one side than the other. Im sizing .452 and bullet mold is .452, podwer coating works but to me it is quite a bit slower process thats why i wanted to get the lead loads shooting without fouling. I may try 15 or 20 with out sizing and see what happens. Thanks

[NC_JEFF]

Unless the round is just too hot and the rifling is stripping a little lead before imparting spin, the answer is listed above. Size seems to be the cause, easy to test for and easy to solve. I like my PC'd boolits, I'll take what you don't use after you find the size boolits you need. Enjoy your 45, I do mine.

JD

[NavyVet1959]

if you have success with the p/c why change?

I have some rounds that I powdercoat and others that I just tumble lube. In my opinion, tumble lubing is a bit quicker (with respect to the actual time I have to be involved in the process. It might take longer before I can actually load the bullets into ammo with tumble lubing due to having to leave them out to dry, but that time that it takes direct hands-on input from me is noticeably less.

For example, if a friend called me up on Friday to go shooting with him on the weekend and he suggested I bring along one of my guns that I did not have any ammo already made up for, it might not possible to get the rounds loaded in time with tumble lubing, but with powdercoating, it could, even though powdercoasting takes more direct hands-on time from me. That is because the bullets are ready to be loaded as soon as they cool off. With tumble lubing, I prefer to have a couple of days between the lubing and loading to allow them to dry better. This can be cut down some by leaving a high velocity fan blowing on the bullets and dusting them with talc powder before loading.

[soldierbilly1]

OK, my 0.02.
With TL, too much and they never dry, too little and you may lead up the bore. think goldilocks here.
If you don't water drop, let the bullets age for 1 - 2 weeks. this seems to help as well.
I never had a problem, ever, with Lyman and a grease groove bullet. When barrels lead I spend too
much time on analysis and not enough time actually shooting!
good luck
bill boy

[bangerjim]

When barrels lead I spend too much time on analysis and not enough time actually shooting!

bill boy

I had the exact same problem. When things did lead up, I spent waaaaay too much time trying to find out why and fix it. PC solved all that. No leading since.

PC may not be popular with everybody, but is sure lets me shoot more boolits and clean less barrels.

banger-j

[runfiverun]

if it takes very long for the lube to dry you need more solvents in the mix.
my version of 45-10 is more like 50% mineral spirits the coating is dried in front of a fan and is dry in about 20 minutes.
I also heat the boolits up with a hair dryer to the point I don't want to touch them, this also allows the coating to go on smoother and thinner, and helps speed up the drying process a bunch.
running them through the sizer is the slow down for me and I use stars.

[Leon Garfield]

I bought my lube all are made from a link off this site can't remember the name off top of my head. My load is 4.5grs of bullseye. I looked today on lees sight I have the .452 sizer die the next size up is .454 is that gonna be to big? Guess I should stay with powder coat and forget it........Thanks for all the imput.....

[GhostHawk]

Check your sizer die, Lee dies have been dropping 1 thousandth below what they are rated at.

I'm shooting the Lee .452 229 grain round nose with 2 lube grooves and shooting them AS CAST!

Try Ben's liquid lube, dry overnight and load them the next day. No leading in my SA .45acp, great accuracy.
I started using it because it was easy to make, I had 4 bottles of alox from sizing kits, and the bottle of Johnson's was reasonable.
Give it a shake, use about half what you think you need for 50-100 bullets, and give it a tumble, set them out to dry.
So far it has worked great in everything I've tried it in.

PC is fine if you want to PC, the plus being that it does add size to a bullet.
The minus being that it does take another set of tools and time.

[Love Life]

Check your throat:

[Leon Garfield]

Liquid Xlox from LsStuff is the lube i have. I will measure some sized bulletts and try shooting some unsized and see what it does. Thanks

[Leon Garfield]

Another question, would it be worth trying water dropping bullets to make them harder or does that make fouling worse?

[Bullwolf]

Another question, would it be worth trying water dropping bullets to make them harder or does that make fouling worse?

A hard cast boolit will lead just as much as a soft one... IF the boolit is undersized. In some situations hard boolits can lead even more, as a hard boolit will not bump up as easily.

If your boolits are too small, you will get gas cutting erosion, and it will leave barrel leading. You may possibly even notice boolits key holing at the target as well.

The only time harder boolits will help very much with this, is if your brass is swaging (squeezing) down your boolits undersized when seating.

Try loading a complete round, and then pull the boolit and measure it to see if this is happening to you. If your pulled boolit is smaller after seating/loading you will have identified your problem, and can make steps in your loading procedure to correct it.

If you are not expanding your brass enough or properly, the tight brass case can squeeze down a soft cast lead boolit undersize when seating. A larger, or more effective expander spud can help with this. While a harder boolit can band aid this issue some, you should fix the problem with your loading procedure.

I can, and have done the same thing (squeezed a cast boolit undersize) using a Lee Carbide Factory Crimp die post sizing a round with the guts removed. Some folks swear by them, while many others swear at them. That's why it was asked previously if you were using a Lee Factory Crimp die.

If your throat has a sharp edge to it, it will shave a ring of lead when firing cast boolits both soft and hard even if the boolits are the correct size. That shaved lead is going build up as barrel leading and cause problems. Closely examine the throat of your barrel. This thread on 1911 Throating (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?232061-1911-Throating) has some excellent pictures, and information about just this.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?232061-1911-Throating



- Bullwolf

[gloob]

It might take longer before I can actually load the bullets into ammo with tumble lubing due to having to leave them out to dry

With TL, too much and they never dry

if it takes very long for the lube to dry you need more solvents in the mix.
my version of 45-10 is more like 50% mineral spirits the coating is dried in front of a fan and is dry in about 20 minutes.

If you want your LLA to dry faster, try cooking off all the solvents in it. You will still need to cut it with JPW or other wax; pure LLA is very hard and has a really high melting point, once the solvents are gone, and the wax makes it easier to remelt. Mix the ingredients in the doubleboiler, and let stew for 15 minutes, adding no solvent.

When I TL, I scoop/chip some pieces of this solid lube onto the bullets and melt it with a heat gun. Then I tumble in a cake pan, over the heat gun. You can add a light coat, or you can completely fill the lube grooves in one pass. I can even completely fill traditional lube grooves in one go with this lube/method. Either way, the bullets are dry, nontacky, and ready to load as soon as they cool.

OP: pull some of your assembled ammo (from a variety of headstamps) and measure them against your sized bullets. You might be swaging them down somewhere along the line. If your alloy is soft enough, the case, itself, might be swaging the bullet. The FCD is another potential culprit, as has been mentioned. If your cases are swaging the bullet, you can fix this with an NOE expander. For .452 bullets, I would suggest the 451/455 expander. (Your standard expander is probably 448.)

If this is not the case, then check your bore, carefully. It might be the sharp throat or you might have a rough bore. A little lapping might help.

I am considering lapping my revolvers. They both have a bit of a stricture where the barrel goes into the frame. I am thinking of melting some buffing compound into the tumble lube for fire lapping.

[Virginia John]

Size your boolits with a Lee sizer and load them for no more than 800 fps and you should see no leading.

[gloob]

Size your boolits with a Lee sizer and load them for no more than 800 fps and you should see no leading.
Logical fallacy. If your bullets are big enough, and your bore is amenable, you can shoot them as fast as a 200 gr 45ACP can go without leading. And using a Lee sizer can only make a bullet smaller. Sizing can improve accuracy and feed reliability, but it can not fix leading problems.

Besides, OP is already sizing to 452, which should be big enough to fill any bore. It's highly likely that he is swaging his bullets somewhere along the line.

OP, if all else fails, try scrubbing your bore with Hoppe's to dissolve any galled/imbedded copper. Try shooting unsized bullets as dropped. Try using more lube. But DO measure your pulled bullets, because that's where the odds are.

[Leon Garfield]

Thanks guys good info. I am using the Lee die for seating and crimping done together. I am using more than enough lube for sure. Next time I mould I am going to try some not sized and see what happens. I will also load one and pull it to see what it measures. I have a new square deal reloader on its way so I will be set up with just a crimp die. Thanks again for trying to help me figure this all out.

[Leon Garfield]

Ok got a chance today to pull a loaded round. The bullet measured .4515 on mic so figure it is pretty close. I guess it must be the throat or roughness in barrel. Gonna mold up a few and measure them right from the mold and maybe give that a try see how it works.

[Leon Garfield]

Ok guys today i molded up some bullets. They measure .452 to .454 as cast there is a little oblong to them. So is it ok as you have recomended to shoot these in my gun without sizing to see if it cures my leading problem? Thanks

[Leon Garfield]

Anyone got any more input??????