Belding and Mull measure

[calaloo]

Does anyone use a Belding and Mull powder measure, and do they stand up to all the hype surrounding them? I think MVA is building a copy. Any difference between the new and the old? I live in a black powder and single shot challenged part of the country and never get to see a lot of equipment and accessories. Thanks.

Bill

[powderburnerr]

they are good machines if you do your part , consistancy is the name of the game .the closer to working it the same each time you do the better the charge is , I personally think the B&M is a little more accurate than the MVA. I only use 1F in them and do believe the finer granulations meter better in either of.them .Dean

[Bent Ramrod]

calaloo,

My first and most-used measure is an original Belding & Mull, and I don't often use the other ones I've accumulated so I don't really have a standard of comparison. That being said, I can generally, if I'm consistent in the operation of the thing, get between + or - 0.2 grains even with the longest and crunchiest stick powders. Some of the flake powders seem to take time to settle, but once they do, they usually stay within +-0.1 gr. Powders with good aspect ratios like VV-N-130 and ball powders often stay right on the reading for long strings of charges.

Somebody in Handloader magazine did a comparison of the more common powder measures some years ago and the B&M ranked at least second, if I recall.

I bought my B&M used for cheap back in the '70's when nobody wanted them (the company went out of business soon after). Those crank jobs that directly filled the shells were much faster and thus more desirable to the On-the-Go handloading fraternity. I figured the B&M would be a museum curio by now, but it's back, larger, probably better made and more expensive than ever! As I recall, it was Mike Venturino who first wrote that he'd gone to an old B&M in preference to all others for his volume powder charging; this before the new design came out. There must be some reason besides nostalgia the things are selling at the prices they go for.

[Don McDowell]

Can't speak to the new ones haven't been around one.
However as a youngster I grew up learing to load off of an old B&H. Was tickled to death when I got out on my own and could get one of the new type measures.
As near as I could tell a feller could do just as well with a dipper as the B&H, you still needed to weigh and trickle each charge, and the dipper didn't cut powder grains in two.

[Kraschenbirn]

Don't use my B&M for BP but haven't found anything that works better for extruded powders for CF rifle calibers.

Bill

[brshooter]

I had a B&M measure, measured well, all tho awkward to use. Spilled quite a fair amount of 4831 going from the measure to the case. The mounting was crude, thumbscrew on bottom could not be torqued hard enough to hold measure stationary on my bench. Return spring was strong and a PITA, let slam back once and broke the glass. A Harrell's measure is 100 times better.

[carpetman]

I started with a B&M and have never used anything else. It is correct you cannot torque the thumbscrew tight enough. I made a rabbett that it sits in and mounted a metal strip to either side of the measure to prevent the twist. Once mounted rigidly they are very accurate with any type powder I have used. They do have benefit that if you don't do things consistent and get an undercharge you can see it---you can't overcharge with one UNLESS you set it up wrong to begin with or the adjustment moves. The latter scenario of the adjustment moving should not happen if you do it correctly to begin with. I would guess they are slower than some of the other types,but accuracy should outweigh speed in this case. They will maintain consistent accuracy. I have read numerous times about a measure not handling this that or the other type powder. I have found no powder the B&M doesnt handle.

[wiljen]

You can cure the adjustment moving by making your own tubes too. Cutting 45-70 cases back to the volume you wish works nicely.

[Ringer]

Belding & Mull is still in business, and supplies Buffalo Arms. I have bought repair parts from them@2 yrs ago. Regards, Ringer

[John Boy]

Bill, here is a powder drop comparison that I did including the B&M ...
http://shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7037

Summary

Here are the deviation drops between the measures:

0.23 0.29 0.48 0.35 Goex FFg
0.64 0.11 0.19 0.29 Swiss 1.5
0.13 0.19 0.14 0.11 Goex FFFg
0.27 0.09 0.18 0.12 ... SD
(1)... (2)... (3)... (04)

(1) Belding & Mull
(2) Ideal No 5
(3) Lee Perfect Powder Measure
(4) Ohaus Du-O Measure


_________________

[calaloo]

Thanks John Boy for the numbers. Evidently the "new" Belding and Mull is out of business for some reason (you can find several if you look hard enough). Montana Vintage Arms is making a B&M type measure that dosen't really look like a B&M but works like one. Ebay seems to be the only, or at least the easiest, place to find an original. I was planning to use one strictly for black powder but it is good to know that they work equally well with smokeless. Thanks to all for your replies.

Bill

[omgb]

I have two of them. A couple of years ago I ordered a new brass hopper from B&M and intalled it on the one I use for BP. This is a very accurate and simple measure. I prefer it to my RCBS, Hornady and an old Lyman #5 for BP. It isn't fast and it can't be press mounted so it does have some limitations. But, if speed isn't your big issue, it can't be beaten for accuracy.

[dromia]

Just scored one from45nut on the swap and sell forum :-D, been looking for one for ages.

Had one years ago but lost track of it, no doubt find it again when the one from 45nut comes. :roll:

[WBH]

I "restore" the old B&M measures. I must have 6 or 8 of my own. YES the thumbscrew is a PITA to keep the measure from twisting. I have installed 2 "side" pins into the base to keep this from happening. The spring can also use a little shaving or replacement with a weaker one. The glass is replaced with lexan windows.....never crack or break. The meathod of holding the glass is a poorly designed one. I use mine exclusively for BP. It is more time consuming than the Lyman, but I am retired and have plenty of time.

[Typecaster]

Now dromia is going to get me all inspired to clean up my shop. Somewhere out there is a B&M I bought about 25 years ago and hasn't been seen since. One of my sons could well have "helped" me by putting it away somewhere when they were small. I do have the box, though.

My dad tells me that I used to go to his blacksmith's shop next door and arrange his hammers by length of handle. A perfectly logical system to my mind, but when he'd take something hot from the forge and reach for a specific hammer...which of course I'd moved...

I do have other B&Ms; one with the plastic hopper for smokeless, a brass one for BP. Those get used for rifle loads; I use a RCBS for peestol.

[calaloo]

Dromia. Does the one you bought have a plastic hopper. I jumped in just after you . Congrats. I'll continue to look.

Bill

[dromia]

Don't know Bill didn't ask, no doubt Ken will let us know now you've asked. :-D

[Typecaster]

The photo was of one with the plastic hopper.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

I really like My MVA Visable measure (improved B&M).

Use it mainly for the 45-70 with FFg.

Kenny Wasserburger

[threett1]

I have a B&M I use exclusively for black powder. It just seemed right to have a classic like that to load for my Sharps and Trapdoors. It is slower, but since I trickle down a drop tube anyway, who cares? I just enjoy the time loading my BP cartridges.

[ridurall]

I've had a Belding & Mull powder measure for at least 25 years. I've also got an RCBS and Pacific/clone on my universal clone progressive loader. Aside for the progressive loader all my powder measuring is done with the B&M. I just don't think you can get better then it.

[Irascible]

I posed this same question on the ASSRA sight. The answers were;
The current B&M is the same as it always was, the current manufacturers are just using the same moulds.
The New B&M is the same, but like the old ones did, it needs a little tuning.
The MVA is a slightly improved B&M design with better craftmanship and tuning.
The MVA comes with a brass hopper for black powder
There is no better measure for ornary stick powders

[WBH]

Most times I find that the replacement hopper cover will not fit the older brass hoppers. I need to grind the ID on the cap until it fits. No biggie, just a PITA. I also would have thought they would switch to lexan windows......one of my biggest complaints.

[jazzman251]

I have 2 B&M measures, a newer one with a plastic hopper and the older one has an aluminum hopper. They work terrific on all types of powder. The trick is to push the lever,turn the drop tube a half turn and push the handle back. I see them occasionally at shows for around $100.

[ridurall]

I've been using my B&M for close to 30 years now. I just loaded up a bunch of 45/70 with Hodgdon 777 and it stayed right on at 48 grains per load only plus or minus .01 grain. I'm using a 28 inch aluminum arrow for a drop tube and it works great with the brass measure.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

What "Lunger" said +1!!

I have an old original and the new MVA. The MVA is the cat's ***!

Rich

[Cactus Farmer]

My powder tube is brass and old,so do I assume that Al was next and plastic last?Any ideas of dates for the changes? I've had my used (when I bought it) 30+
years ago. Brass sure shines up pretty!!!

[carpetman]

If you need a replacement for the hopper lid, take your measure to an auto parts store and they should have a freeze plug that is a perfect fit and you can get them in brass---very probably the original was a freeze plug too.