New colt 1991 (series 80)

[Mauser48]

I've been looking at getting a 1911 soon. I like the colt 1991 .45 full size. I see buds gun shop has it for $730. I also see they have the series 70 for about $900. Why is there such a price difference in the two? Is there any quality difference? The only difference I have seen is the arched mainspring housing and the short trigger. How is the quality and reliability with the new colts? How much slop does the slide have? How does it compare to the kimber custom 2. Mainly I would like to know the overall quality of the colts and why there is such a price difference between the series 70 and 80. Any experience with these is appreciated. Thanks guys!

[Mauser48]

I also forgot to mention I know that the series 80 has a firing pin safety block. Is the trigger worse on the series 80? Thanks again!

[Mk42gunner]

When the 1991 came out, it was meant as a budget priced alternative that still read Colt on the frame instead of the various clones. IIRC they were under $400.00 retail, while the higher priced Colts were running in the $5-600 range.

The series 80 trigger can be tuned just as well as the series 70 and earlier versions, it just takes a bit more work.

Robert

[MtGun44]

Std Series 80 triggers are OK, slightly more difficult to get to be a really
nice trigger. Ingenious solution to a non-existent problem.

Have you looked at the Ruger SR1911. Seems to be much better for the money
than the Colts, esp the rough finish 1991, which is the "budget version".
I have a new SR1911 as do several friends, and they are quite nicely
made all the way through.

[Love Life]

Grabagun has the series 80 gubmint model for $700.

[w5pv]

I have a Colt 1991A1 compact model and have put a lot of rounds down range with it.The biggest problem I have had was the recoil spring cap not holding up.I went to Clark arms and they had a plug that fits to the end of the slide ring instead to the little notches and this setup is far better tthan the orignal set up.
Polish the ramp and keep it clean and you are in business.
A littl heavy for CC but it can be done.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Always avoid the Series 80 with that lawyer linkage, it's unnecessary in your trigger pull and adds more moving parts at the most critical point of shooting. Trigger blocks are fine for DA guns but SA semi autos already have a short trigger pull, adding more moving parts for legal reasons is never a good idea. More moving parts is more parts that could fail. Saying it's never failed me yet is fine, but for a defense guns the question is; will you fail you next time?

The Series 70's will cost you more after you buy them, sights are a must. The Series 80 and 1991 will generally cost you less. Most people lower and flare the ejection port on a Series 70 but that is not necessary on the Series 80. Then there is the issue of the grip safety, it's pretty standard you'll have to have aftermarket work done a Series 70 with the exception of the Gunsite.

If your looking to save money on a fun gun you probably won't need a Series 70.

The 1991 has a lot more plastic parts than the other models.

[18Bravo]

As MtGun44 stated, it's a great fix for a non problem. An 80 series is a deal breaker for me. I've yet to meet an attorney that knew more about building a gun than John Moses Browning did.

[1911KY]

Out of the box, the series 70 will have the better trigger. I am not hung up on the Colt name as many others are, there are better options available, Springfield Range Officer, the new Ruger Nightwatchmen is slick! I am partial to Dan Wesson's and their Heritage model is one helluva gun for the price.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I am completely hung up on the Colt's and have dragged my family half way across the country to see Colt Collectors Shows but (monkey) the Springfield Mil-Spec is IMO a better 1911 than a Series 70 Colt. The finish is ugly however you can pay for a nice aftermarket high polish bluing job on a Springfield Mil-Spec if you want to and end up with a better 1911. Still I shoot the Colt's and have never had any problem with them.

When looking at any 1911, just cock the slide to the rear and turn it over. If it's got that little button under the slide it's not a Series 70 design. When the lawyers improved the 1911 they obviously were too cowardly to watch the footage of our guys in central Germany in the early to mid 40's. Our guys took the 1911 from the beaches of Normandy across Europe into Berlin and didn't need the "improvement" the lawyers deemed necessary as a result of "testing."

[Silver Jack Hammer]

You can also remove the lawyer linkage from any Series 80 design, get a frame shim from Brownell's for $5.00 and have a Series 70 gun..

[Mauser48]

How is the quality of the series 70 better besides the safety? Thanks for the replies

[pietro]

.

IIRC, the 1991 Model 1911's were made with a plastic MS housing & trigger.

A few folks I know, that bought one, switched out the plastic/fantastic parts for steel items.


.

[Dframe]

I've had a 1991 for years and thousands of rounds. They're less highly finished than the others but are great shooters. The firing pin lock came about to prevent an accidental discharge if the gun was dropped. If dropped on their muzzle on a hard surface the older models can fire from the inertia of their firing pins. I've never had the slightest problem with the trigger on mine and would NOT deactivate a safety device.

[Surculus]

.

IIRC, the 1991 Model 1911's were made with a plastic MS housing & trigger.

A few folks I know, that bought one, switched out the plastic/fantastic parts for steel items.


The only part that absolutely MUST be changed out is the plastic trigger: the stirrup will begin to fail if the gun gets hot & drag on the magazine [DAMHIK.] Adjustable target triggers for the m1911 are cheap on the aftermarket anyway, so it's hardly a problem.

[MtGun44]

Clark stole that patented part design from me.

[KYCaster]

I've had a 1991 for years and thousands of rounds. They're less highly finished than the others but are great shooters. The firing pin lock came about to prevent an accidental discharge if the gun was dropped. If dropped on their muzzle on a hard surface the older models can fire from the inertia of their firing pins. I've never had the slightest problem with the trigger on mine and would NOT deactivate a safety device.



I have seen 1911's dropped on the muzzle hard enough to damage the crown and not discharge the round in the chamber.

I've also seen many of the series 80 safeties fail and prevent the gun from firing when the trigger is pulled.

A much simpler solution to the non-existent problem ( and equally effective ) is an extra strength firing pin spring.

Jerry

[Silver Jack Hammer]

The firing pin block on the 1911 termed Series 80 came from tests generated by the term "Saturday night special" which appeared commonly in the media as the type of gun that should be made illegal. The common assumption was cheap, poor quality guns were used in violence on Saturday night and those guns need to be made illegal. Aunty Guns said they never wanted to take our good guns from responsible gun owners. Our tax money went to tests where they put 6 beans in the wheel and dropped a Colt SAA and discovered the gun fired therefore the Colt SAA was deemed a Saturday night special by these tests.

I honestly don't know how they got a 1911 to fire by dropping it so hard on the muzzle inertia overcame a factory spec firing pin spring to hit a primer so hard as to make it fire. At the time we theorized they they slid the 1911 down a 2 story specially built ramp. A 1911 should hit the deck on the heavy end where you put the bullets in.

Dframe, I give you the opportunity to give evidence that the lawyer linkage ever fixed an unsafe design. Where in the past 100 years did a dropped 1911 ever fire in the field?

I would think a titanium firing pin would make someone who is worried about their 1911 firing when dropped feel better. Or maybe the firing pin block makes some people feel better. Extra gadgets like lawyer linkage do not make me feel better, not to disparage other people's feelings but the firing pin block in a 1911 was born of a ridiculous concept and ill conceived tests.

[MtGun44]

The hard fact is that according to the US Army 1910 testing, if the gun was dropped over 6 ft onto concrete
and lands directly on the muzzle, the inertia of the firing pin can fire the cartridge. OK, but I had a friend
that ADed a round from his 1911 directly at a concrete wall about 6-12 inches away. VERY loud and shocking
but the boolit disintegrated entirely on the concrete and NOTHING was harmed by the tiny fragments. If
the muzzle was in contact with concrete it would disintegrate even more thoroughly.

IMO, the only possible harm is a fragment in an eye, not totally negligable but you can be totally sure
that NOBODY is going to get hit with any significant fraction of a bullet and the safety issue is WAY, WAY
over done.

AND the simplest solution is what Ruger is doing - a titanium firing pin and slightly stronger firing pin
spring. Less inertia, cannot fire and no silly little parts.

[ole 5 hole group]

One of my Baer's has the ultra light hammer kit and titanium firing pin - firing pin just might give a tad faster lock time and with a 2.25# trigger, that might be a good thing, if true?

I prefer the series 70 clones, as they can be worked on a little easier - say if you want to mill the slide for a red dot etc.

[youngmman]

The firing pin block on the 1911 termed Series 80 came from tests generated by the term "Saturday night special" which appeared commonly in the media as the type of gun that should be made illegal. The common assumption was cheap, poor quality guns were used in violence on Saturday night and those guns need to be made illegal. Aunty Guns said they never wanted to take our good guns from responsible gun owners. Our tax money went to tests where they put 6 beans in the wheel and dropped a Colt SAA and discovered the gun fired therefore the Colt SAA was deemed a Saturday night special by these tests.

I honestly don't know how they got a 1911 to fire by dropping it so hard on the muzzle inertia overcame a factory spec firing pin spring to hit a primer so hard as to make it fire. At the time we theorized they they slid the 1911 down a 2 story specially built ramp. A 1911 should hit the deck on the heavy end where you put the bullets in.

Dframe, I give you the opportunity to give evidence that the lawyer linkage ever fixed an unsafe design. Where in the past 100 years did a dropped 1911 ever fire in the field?

I would think a titanium firing pin would make someone who is worried about their 1911 firing when dropped feel better. Or maybe the firing pin block makes some people feel better. Extra gadgets like lawyer linkage do not make me feel better, not to disparage other people's feelings but the firing pin block in a 1911 was born of a ridiculous concept and ill conceived tests.

According to Kimber and Springfield the 1911's ordered by the military and FBI specifically are WITHOUT the firing pin block. Springfield doesn't have it anyway and I have three of them: two loaded models and one target, thousands of rounds, and gee whiz, I'm still around to make this post...........imagine that.

[Dframe]

I personally saw just such a discharge when my friends gun dropped from it's holster and hit a terazzo floor. We were rushing out to our cars to answer a call of an injury accident. Fortunately the bullet impacted the floor and no one was hurt. Firing pin safetys have been in use by MOST manufacturers for decades now. I've never seen a firing pin safety prevent a gun from firing in several years I spent at the range. I'd be interested to see the documentation where a failure to fire can be proven to be caused by a firing pin block. I completely agree that the incidence of a gun discharging in this fashion is low but will still not disable a safety device.

[Char-Gar]

I have had several Series 80 Colts and have never had any issues with them other than they are more difficult to put back together if you strip the parts from the frame.

I bought this Colt Government Model in 2005 and it is stock except for the aluminum match trigger I fitted and the ivory grips. It is a very good pistol.

I think the Series 70 vs. Series 80 debate is "much ado about nothing".

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I've worked at lots of places where there have been bullet holes from "accidents" in the buildings, the cars, the people, been at a several of "accidental" shootings, and have eye witnessed them too.

Dframe, your story leaves more questions. Are you saying a Series 70, inspected and confirmed by an armorer to have factory parts discharged when it was dropped on the floor from holster height when you guys were heading out to an injury accident? This would be a failure on the part of the factory and there should be a record of it, right?

[Mauser48]

Just want to bump this to say im going with the springfield armory milspec.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

159770Here's mine. Purchased in 2003. Changed out the trigger, mainspring housing, grip and grip screws. Never failed to fire. You can remove the firing pin safety mechanism, but if you ever have to shoot somebody with it their lawyers will make you out to be a premeditated killer.
I no longer have a Series 70, but the one I did have had the barrel bushing with the fingers, and one of them broke in use.

DG

[Mauser48]

Very nice! I might go with the GI instead if I could find one. Im not sure exactly but it will be a milspec or a GI.

[Char-Gar]

I have a Colt Series 80 Government Model made in 2003 and it is a very fine handgun. I did replace the trigger with a oversize one that I fitted to the frame to eliminate play and slop. Other than that, it is box stock and it is a very good pistol.

I don't have any problems with the Series 80 modifications.

The new Ruger 1911s are a far better deal than the new Colts. They are first rate pistols. I recently bought one of the LW Commanders and I am VERY impressed with it. Ruger uses a titanium firing pin to avoid the slight possibility of the pistol firing by inertia if dropped on the muzzle.

[Windwalker 45acp]

I own a 1991A1 and it's had many thousands of rounds put thru her, nearing 11k, plus whatever the previous owner put through it. They're fine 1911's, nothing wrong with them.

I agree with Char-Gar on the whole Series 70 and 80 debate being blown out of proportion, and I believe it's all boils down to what your used too. Having said that, it IS easier to get a 70 Series to be a better shooter over stock than a Series 80 (more tension on the 80's due to pushing more stuff), but like someone else mentioned, it can be switched to a 70 if you desire.

I sorta like the extra safety the 80 gives as I carry condition 1, even if it would be highly unlikely a negligent discharge even on a 70.

They do have plastic triggers, mines still stock other than it being ground down (easier to grind since it's plastic), but the trigger linkage is steel (meaning just the trigger pad itself is the only plastic part of the trigger) and I can't recall if mine had a plastic MSH or not, as I switched it out to a curved MSH back in 94. Could've been, I just don't remember.