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Marlin Junky
03-07-2008, 05:21 AM
Has anyone had Mountain Molds cut a paper patched bullet mold? Most of the dimensions will be dictated by the rifle's dimension except for the type of bullet base. The question is: what to do about the bullet base? Also, I think I'll go with a tangential ogive but another good question would be: how about meplat diameter for hunting out to 250 yards or so? Would a .200" meplat be about right?

MJ

pdawg_shooter
03-07-2008, 09:21 AM
After five years of trying I have finally found THE load for my Marlin 1895g. Does everything I want done and is still shootable. I started with new Remington brass, annealed the first ¾ inch using the melted lead method, belled with a Lee expander and primed with CCI 200. The powder charge is 52gr AA 2495. I started with 48 and worked up with no signs of pressure. This is a compressed load, even using a 16 inch drop tube. The magic bullet is cast in a Lyman 451114 mould. The alloy is 17 parts pure lead, 2 ½ parts linotype, and ½ part tin. The bullet drops from the mould .451, 430gr and is ready for patching. I make my patches from 16lb green bar computer paper, cut 2.750 long on a 60* angle 1.500 high. I dip in water and wrap twice around the bullet. They are left to dry overnight, then lubed with BAC. Then the tails are clipped and the bullet is run through a .459 Lee sizing die. I seat them to an OCL of 2.580. These shoot clover leaf groups at 25 yards and into 1.75 at 100. This is with a Lyman 66 rear sight and factory front sight. Not bad for 55 year old eyes. Bullet performance on game is all one could ask for. I’ll not quit experimenting, but how does one improve on perfection?

Black Jaque Janaviac
03-07-2008, 07:50 PM
My 280 grain mold is a Mountain Mold. It's a tangential ogive with a beveled base (beveled, not boattailed). I had the smallest meplat possible, less would be better. At .35 Whelen velocities that thing opens up right quick. The meplat also caused feed malfunctions but I think that is fixed.

The only problem I have with the tangential ogive is that I don't have a consistent line to patch to. I just patch up the ogive a ways and hope that it doesn't matter.

I'm not done experimenting with this bullet either. I get some good groups then kaplooey there's always a hole that opens the group up.

You wouldn't happen to live in the Midwest would you?

pdawg_shooter
03-20-2008, 05:09 PM
My patching block has 2 parallel lines on it, one to line up the patch and one to line the nose of the bullet on. These run at 90* to a shallow groove 1/16 inch wide the bullet lays in to start the patch straight and even.

leftiye
04-05-2008, 02:32 AM
It might be real easy to bore a mold (cylindrical with ogive) to about .004" under bore diameter (maybe better at bore diameter?) , easier the bigger the caliber, and then turn some shallow driving bands about .008" deep into the mold on a lathe. Use medium thickness paper (.003 thick ??), lube and size after dry? I'm not really sure about paper thickness etc. but all you'd have to do about the driving bands would be to stick a small internal threading bar in the mold, move into the cut correctly, and in place at the rear of the ogive, travel the width (minus the width of the cutter) desired for the band, retract from the cut (dial indicator, etc), move the desired width of the groove and repeat, and repeat. My mental picture has many narrow bands and grooves. I've never done this yet, or made any paper patched boolits, does this sound correctly laid out?

405
04-08-2008, 11:00 PM
For sure what pdawg said about the patching block- makes getting the patch and bullet all lined up a lot easier and the patch to the same postion on each bullet easier.

As far as grooves on a custom mold for a pp bullet???? I may have missed a reason along the way but since the bullet is going to be undersized and only good for paper jacket use.... is there a reason for the grooves?... easier to cast good quality grooved bullets?... place to put lube?

As far as base design- there seems to be two "schools". One believes the best is hollow base to tuck the paper tail into. The other says flat and just wrap the paper so there is no tail to worry about. Which is better?.... I don't know. I shoot flat base, smooth sided (tapering into the ogive) paper patch bullets with great success. The bullet is near pure lead and after patching and drying is .003 under groove diameter and .004 over bore diameter. That seems to allow for the best balance between engraving into the lands when chambered and consistent bump up to groove diameter at firing. That is for black powder, single shot application and may not be best for harder alloy, smokeless, lever gun application???

Photos of basic sequence with patching block.

kjg
04-09-2008, 01:42 PM
hey how are you making such a pretty wrap, and how are you folding the patch on the bottom that sure is nice and neat, my twisting varries to almost perfect to ugly. kjg

405
04-09-2008, 03:12 PM
kjg,
Believe me it took a while to get it worked out. Trial and error and repetition.
I still can't do it at a "fast pace". It IS the most tedious part of loading paper patch ammo. Looking at some of the ammo factory records of the workers doing it... I don't know how they could do it at the pace required for factory production. I think most were young ladies with very nimble fingers :)

I just use plain water and dip the patch. Then lay the patch on the line and far enough back so bullet shank lays across full width of paper (at the beginning of the angle cut). Wrap the starting tag end of the paper around bullet. With light pressure roll bullet onto paper. Then hold bullet in right hand and lightly twist the tail around using left hand while pushing paper tail to base of bullet. Then carefully set bullet on its base on a paper plate to dry.

Another tricky part is getting the edge of second wrap to end up just short of the leading edge of the first wrap. How wet the paper is and how much pressure is used in rolling determines how close that edge fit is. Matthews and others say that is the kind of fit that is the best plus the original pp bullets I've looked at were done that way... so that's what I try to do.

Different papers act differently when wetting and wrapping. I use mostly 100% cotton paper at .023" dry thickness and the angle cuts are about 37'. Some papers with less cotton or no "rag" content start coming apart pretty quickly when wetted and are more difficult to wrap.

kjg
04-10-2008, 07:44 PM
I really got to tell you those bulltes you do are just gorgious. kjg

leftiye
04-15-2008, 12:43 PM
405, I had seen paper patched bullet molds with grooves, and also read paper patch articles where they had the grooves, and liked them. Grips the paper better, engraves easier.

405
04-15-2008, 04:58 PM
leftiye,
Good points and there may be some advantage to paper patching grooved bullets- I surely don't know one way or another.

I know that Matthews did that quite a bit and have seen it posted here fairly often.

I have always been under the impression that those patching grooved bullets were doing so because they already had the mold and those were the type of bullets they were already casting. Kind of a necessity or experimental type thing rather than doing it by design or on purpose.

Digital Dan
05-09-2008, 08:34 PM
I've a friend that had MM cut a mould for his .45-70. About 530 grains, flat based with about a .2" meplate. Looks a bit like .405's bullet and shoots very well w/ 9# onion skin.

windrider919
05-11-2008, 12:14 AM
According to 45 2.1 and Richard at Hoch moulds the grooves become necessary at higher velocities when using smokeless powders. They both told me that the blackpowder obturates the bullet into a fit but the smokeless will not then the gas cuts past thru the patch. I am having a custom mould made for my .458 Winchester Magnum which has a standard chamber. i had always PPed to .458/9 and had results of 2" to 2 1/2" or less at 100yds. But after I was told to check my chamber I found that the bullet throut was .463 which was letting gas past at firing I guess. I just tried 3 wraps to .463 using a 510 gr PP bullet and shot 1.5" 100yd groups (5 shot ea, 4 groups) It was recommended to me that a .455 bullet with small grooves like the Lee tumble lube grooves on the bore riding area and using the standard 2 wraps to .463 could possibly be better. The bullet will be 'overbore' but will still have the advantages of PP

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll249/windrider919/458PPCastbulletdesignjpg.jpg


http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll249/windrider919/Some458WMloads002.jpg

Southern Son
05-11-2008, 06:29 AM
Windrider,
Looking at that picture above, you have loaded some pretty wild stuff into the .458. I have one that sooner or later I am going to start casting for (can't affod jacketed bullets, too expensive). How did the shot go? How did the XTP go? (that is a Hornady XTP 44 mag boolit next to the sabot load, isn't it?). Who made the flat point J-boolit and how did that like going at 458 mag speeds? And finally, what is the lead boolit that you have wrapped up there (weight, design, etc)?

45 2.1
05-11-2008, 10:32 AM
Make sure that the patched boolit doesn't have to jump to the rifling. Seat it out so the patch actually shows dirty marks on it from the rifling when chambered and it will shoot better than what your getting now.

windrider919
05-11-2008, 03:15 PM
My current .458Wm is actually the 3rd rifle I've built for this cartridge. I consider it my "All Around Rifle" as you can see by the picture. I had a description but for some reason it did not print on the picture.

From L to R: Origional factory 45-100 for comparison, 510gr .450dia. Buffalo Arms PP, Speer 350gr SP, 300gr Hornady XTP .451 pistol bullet PP to .463, 158gr / .357 Hornady XTP in MMP sabot, Shotshell: 28ga load; Hogden 110 & 3/4oz #4 shot in a shortened .410 cup, 1/16 overwad sealed w/ fingernail polish , and a .308 to compare.

Missing is my round ball squirl/rabbit load because I shot them all up hunting and have not reloaded a new batch. I have two types, a .459 ball w/plastic filler and tiny crimp and a .44 ball in a double ended cup sabot, heavy crimp / dacron filler.

As per the shot shell, it works well out to 15 yards or so before the pattern 'donuts' in the middle due to the rifling. However, I have taken numerous snowshoe, ringneck phesent, squirl and even some quail jumped up from fencerows. And a snake now and then. I ALWAYS keep a couple in my pocket when afield.

The .357/45 sabot is loaded using .35 Wheelen data. It gives hunting accuracy but NOT benchrest accuracy. I believe it is too soft for above 2000fps [groups open out fast here] and I get best accuracy (2") at 1800/1850 fps. Best powder is Accurate Arms 5744, everything else I have tried is a 4"er.

willdixon
05-11-2008, 05:22 PM
OKAY, GET READY FOR THE DUMB QUESTION OF THE WEEK!

In Randolph Wright's book, LOADING AND SHOOTING PAPER PATCHED BULLETS - and this is also what all the experts say and write - "ACCURATE PAPER PATCHED AMMUNITION NEED TO HAVE BULLETS THAT ARE AS MUCH AS TWO THOUSANDTHS UNDER BORE DIAMETER UP TO BORE DIAMETER."

But does he mean they need to be that diameter BEFORE they are patched, or AFTER they are patched.

I've ASSUMED all along he and they mean the bullet - AFTER it has been patched -needs to be "as much as .002" under bore diameter up to bore diameter."

But, if my assumption has been wrong all this time, I'm in BIG TROUBLE with my new BACO .50 mould which throws a bullet .492" in diameter or .008" UNDER BORE DIAMETER.

Help please?

leftiye
05-11-2008, 07:39 PM
Remember bore diameter is the minor diameter of the barrel (inside). That is, the size of a pin gauge that will insert into the bore. Bore is the barrel before the grooves are cut or otherwise "rifled." Pdawg gets eskellant accuracy with boolits sized about a thou. over bore diameter, THEN patched up as much as .012" (two layers of .003" paper).

willdixon
05-11-2008, 08:21 PM
Then you're saying, leftiye, that my bullets are going to be TOO LOSE if I use them with two layers of .0023" BACO onion skin, is this correct?

Thank you.

45 2.1
05-11-2008, 08:51 PM
Then you're saying, leftiye, that my bullets are going to be TOO LOSE if I use them with two layers of .0023" BACO onion skin, is this correct?

Thank you.

The stuff you read is blackpowder paper patch rules for patched diameter with no wiping. If you wipe with BP, you can use bore size boolits patched up to throat - 0.0005" diameter and shoot better groups then what you get not wiping. Smokeless powder PP uses bore to bore +0.001" boolits patched up to throat -0.0005" diameter.

willdixon
05-11-2008, 11:58 PM
Thank you very much 45 2.1 -

Well I've been planning all along on cleaning the bore (two wet wipes and one dry?) after each shot, and I will only be using black powder.

So I've wasted my money on this mould? http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,7174.html

I'd planning on using 20:1, by the way.

leftiye
05-12-2008, 01:13 AM
No, you probly haven't wasted your money. Your starting diameter is too small, yes, but for smokeless powder. I think 45 2.1 figured it out right, your dimension might be correct for Black Powder where the boolit "bumps up" to fill the rifling due to the shock wave that black powder generates upon ignition. Don't give up until you put some down range (for heaven's sake)!

Buckshot
05-12-2008, 01:30 AM
...............I've had excellent results patching up both grooved (lube grooved) and smooth slugs. In patching a smooth boolit like these below:

http://www.fototime.com/4C9F502AC298773/standard.jpg

The leading edge of the patch needs to be protected upon it's entry into the leade (for cartridge rifles). For slugs such as these you need to patch beyond the ogive. This way the lands do not push the patch back. But instead force it down into the slug engraving it. If the leade is such that there is a shallow beginning, you can generally patch TO the ogive, as below:

http://www.fototime.com/EA7AAA2FDAB4340/standard.jpg

You can see that the lands have engraved or marked the boolit AND the paper without otherwise damaging it. If this cannot be accomplished then it either has to be patched beyond the ogive, or turned into a protective groove. This is especially the situation normally encountered when using a patched slug in a repeater, like a lever action or the various transitional early BPC military rifles.

http://www.fototime.com/F5B2831828DBFE3/standard.jpg

These slugs above are patched up to be used in a 45 cal muzzle loading match rifle. Since they're loaded from the muzzle and there is no leade to deal with, only the parallel portion (or bearing portion) need be protected.

http://www.fototime.com/0FDEA25C2215222/standard.jpg

These 577-450 Martini cartridges are loaded with the Lee 457-405F slug. It's used 'as cast' at about .457" and using 2 wraps of 20lb (.004") paper. This gives about a .470" OD over the patch when dry. These are smokless loads.

................Buckshot

willdixon
05-12-2008, 03:14 AM
Thank you very much, leftiye and Buckshot.

Well I probably did not put it wisely, about my mould being a waste of money. But it hasn't gotten here yet, and I assume Buffalo would take it back if I asked them to, but first:

No, I'll never be firing smokeless powder. And yes I'll also be cleaning after each shot; I won't be in any timed events. And yes, I figured on some obduration, but I also read about a lot of the experts who are using much larger diameter bullets, under these same circumstances, patched out to groove size with very thin paper, around .0014" etc. And they're cleaning after each shot and making really small groups out to 1K yards!

So, if I thought for a second this .492" bullet were going to be too loose, I'd try to return the mould to Buffalo.

They sell a mould for a tapered spitzer which is .503" in diameter, but I don't think I want a tapered spitzer - do I? - and wouldn't .503 be too large in diameter, before patching?

So, if this .492 won't work for me, I'll have to go for some custom mould, and for the reasonable investment I'll have in this mould, I guess you're probably right leftiye, and I ought to give it a try for a few rounds.

And thank you Buckshot for your tutorial; you answered exactly some of the questions which have been going around in my head, including how far up to patch the bullets to get the patch started in the grooves so they don't unwrap the bullet right there in the chamber.

Man, those polished cup based bullets in your top picture are gorgeous!

Thanks, guys, I really do appreciate the help!

windrider919
05-12-2008, 08:01 PM
45 2.1 and leftie are as usual the answer guys. Helped me just recently because I was using BP dimensions when shooting smokeless with those Buffalo Arms 510gr .450dia cup based bullets. Reminded me that throat diameter was critical to accuracy, not just bore and groove dia. I am now patching to throat diameter and my groups lost 1/2 inch on the average. And that is why the custom bullet on shown earlier on this thread will (should) mike .455. It will be 'overbore' compared to the .450 pills but will be patched 2 wraps to throat dia. and set to just touch the rifling. I live to experiment and this is heaven for me. Thanks for the advice gentlemen, its what makes belonging to this forum so great

leftiye
05-12-2008, 10:54 PM
Windrider, Thanks a lot, but Buckshot has it all over on me in most areas, not only this one.

WillDixon, I can't find where you say whether you're shooting BPCR, or muzzle loader. Your mold would work fine (I'd expect) in a muzzleloader situation like the boolits in Buckshot's picture. If you're shooting in a breechloader, you should look at 45 2.1 and windrider's info above about shooting groove diameter or larger (throat/freebore diameter) finished combinations based on bore or bore plus .001" diameter boolits. Buffalo arms might ream out your mold for you if you asked them (if you decide you need a larger boolit). Alternatively, another gunsmith or machinist could do it. This would only be a good idea if your mold produces a smooth sided boolit. Otherwise, you'd end up with a smooth sided boolit!

willdixon
05-13-2008, 04:55 AM
Yes, leftyie, it's a PEDERSOLI SHARPS QUIGLEY 50/90.

You're right, I guess I hadn't mentioned that one small detail - smile.

Thank you.

Red River Rick
05-13-2008, 05:30 PM
Willdixon:

Perhaps something like this may interest you. This is a .45 cal mould, bullet drops out at approx. 0.440" and are adjustable to a max weight of 650 grs. If your interested in something larger, no problem, .50 cal is available as well.

RRR

willdixon
05-13-2008, 05:38 PM
Thank you very much, Rick -

And I know all about you and your terrific moulds; Dan, in Alaska, has been singing your praises to me for some time now. And indeed your mould looks marvelous!

I'll let you know.

Thanks again!

willdixon
05-26-2008, 03:22 PM
Hi gents:

Did you see my post elsewhere about my new loads? Finally finished my very first PP BPCR loads for my 34" PEDERSOLI SHARPS QUIGLEY 50/90, and I'll be sighting them in tomorrow. I DO WISH I knew how to post my pictures of these beauties; they really look gorgeous. The rifle has never been fired. And my ONLY purpose in these paramaters is long-distance target shooting:

For better or worse, they are:

BACO .492" mould
650gn
1.44" long
20:1 lead/tin
Brass Starline, annealed, full sized (had to; they wouldn't chamber), weighed, measured, deburred
All bullets within .5gn of each other, indexed in cases
Primers Federal 215 Large Magnum Rifle
Cartridges will be indexed in rifle
Powder 122gn Swiss 1.5, slowly trickled through a 2' drop tube.
Patch BACO 9# dry wrapped; not lubed; I'll leave a little lube in the bore after each shot perhaps.
Over powder wad - two .030 veggie wads, no other wads nor grease cookies.
Clean bore after each shot, NAPA + water
Compress powder .085
Bullet seat .285, which puts bullet well up into rifling.

I'll have to shoot these up pretty fast, 'cause I've got to check in the hospital June 9th, for my second open-heart surgery, and my prospects are a tad dismal.

Best wishes....

405
05-26-2008, 07:07 PM
willdixon,
Important.... Wishing you the best with the ticker work!!!

Not so important......The load as you described seems pretty hueno ok.
BP will bump bullets up a tad. The softer the better for this.

I can only pass on what I've found about PP and blackpowder.
I use all cotton paper, twice wrapped. I shoot pure lead swaged tapered bullets. My barrel groove diameter is .458. I swage the bullets at .447. The paper patched bullets when dry mic at .455. That is a little past half way between bore and groove diameter. I think based on accuracy and fouling and the like that I see with that combo.... the bullets do bump to full groove diameter. I seat the bullets to end up looking about like the ones in Buckshots pics. When chambered the paper patch engraves about .1" into the rifling. In the 45-110, 18 twist Sharps a 1.5 cal long roundnose 520 gr. PP bullet over FFG BP with a grease cookie sandwiched between two .030 cards is accurate and maintains stability out to 500 yds. I'm sure that the bullet would remain stable and relatively "accurate" for as long as the bullet stays in the air. They did show clean, circular entrance holes on target paper at 1000yds the one time I spent serious time shooting to that distance. The rest of my paper punching is 500 yds. or less.

willdixon
05-27-2008, 08:30 AM
THANK YOU, 405, for the kind words and technical tips.

And your loads are basically the same as mine, except I'm not using the grease cookies, and my lead is 20:1 rather than your pure lead.

Thank you very much!

Bigjohn
05-27-2008, 07:37 PM
Thank you very much, leftiye and Buckshot.

Well I probably did not put it wisely, about my mould being a waste of money. But it hasn't gotten here yet, and I assume Buffalo would take it back if I asked them to, but first:

No, I'll never be firing smokeless powder. And yes I'll also be cleaning after each shot; I won't be in any timed events. And yes, I figured on some obduration, but I also read about a lot of the experts who are using much larger diameter bullets, under these same circumstances, patched out to groove size with very thin paper, around .0014" etc. And they're cleaning after each shot and making really small groups out to 1K yards!

So, if I thought for a second this .492" bullet were going to be too loose, I'd try to return the mould to Buffalo.

They sell a mould for a tapered spitzer which is .503" in diameter, but I don't think I want a tapered spitzer - do I? - and wouldn't .503 be too large in diameter, before patching?

So, if this .492 won't work for me, I'll have to go for some custom mould, and for the reasonable investment I'll have in this mould, I guess you're probably right leftiye, and I ought to give it a try for a few rounds.

And thank you Buckshot for your tutorial; you answered exactly some of the questions which have been going around in my head, including how far up to patch the bullets to get the patch started in the grooves so they don't unwrap the bullet right there in the chamber.

Man, those polished cup based bullets in your top picture are gorgeous!

Thanks, guys, I really do appreciate the help!

Will, If the mold is undersized and does not shoot well with your loads, I don't think you have wasted your money.

After all is said and done, it is easier to remove metal than to replace metal; especially in a mold cavity.

With a bit of careful work, the cavity could be enlarged. Speak to some of those more expert than me on this matter if it does not give you the results you expect.

John.

Etienne Brule
05-27-2008, 08:00 PM
Willdixon:

Perhaps something like this may interest you. This is a .45 cal mould, bullet drops out at approx. 0.440" and are adjustable to a max weight of 650 grs. If your interested in something larger, no problem, .50 cal is available as well.

RRR

Hi Rick,

Your mold has a place of choice with my Gibbs Pedersoli; I use 2 thickness of 25 cotton paper patches.


http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/geraldbergeron/Pedersoli/440Gibbs001xx.jpg


The bore is 0.4485 and everything is just GREAT.

Thank you

Etienne Brule ( aka Gerald Bergeron).

willdixon
06-04-2008, 05:32 PM
Gentlemen:

BOY HAVE I GOT SOME GOOD NEWS FOR YOU - OR AT LEAST GOOD FOR ME!

After months of annoying you with my dumb questions, I finally cooked up and loaded my first 20 rounds for this PEDERSOLI SHARPS QUIGLEY 50/90, as follows:

BACO .492" mould
650gn
1.44" long
20:1 lead/tin
Brass Starline, annealed, full sized (had to; they wouldn't chamber), weighed, measured, deburred
All bullets within .5gn of each other, indexed in cases
Primers Federal 215 Large Magnum Rifle
Cartridges indexed in rifle
Powder 122gn Swiss 1.5
Patch BACO 9# dry wrapped; not lubed.
Over powder wad - two .030 veggie wads, no other wads nor grease cookies.
Clean bore after each shot, two patches of NAPA + water; one dry patch. Dry chamber last thing.
Compress powder .085
Bullet seat .285, well up into rifling

AND TODAY, FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MY LIFE, I FIRED MY VERY FIRST PP BPCR! NO BIG DEAL FOR YOU, BUT A HUGE ONE FOR ME!

Now remember, I'm 77 years old, and having to go into the hospital this coming Monday, at 6 am, for my SECOND open heart surgery, this time to have a pig's heart valve replace my leaking one.

I had bore sighted the Soule on center windage, but had simply screwed it all the way down to the bottom til it wouldn't go down any further, which I knew was going to make the first bullet low at 100 yards, but it gave me the advantage of starting out at a zero base.

And I was shooting a total of three two-shot groups.

First bullet was off the paper low, as I knew it would be, but on the cardboard target background, two inches below the NRA paper target. AND I WAS DELIGHTED TO LEARN THE RIFLE DID NOT KICK OBJECTIONABLY AT ALL, EVEN WITH THIS 650 GRAIN BULLET AND 122 GRAINS OF SWISS! JUST A HARD SHOVE, NOT A PAINFUL KICK!

THEN - BINGO!

THE SECOND BULLET HOLE CAME WITHIN 1 7/8" - CENTER-TO-CENTER - OF THE FIRST BULLET HOLE. THE VERY FIRST TWO BULLETS OUT OF THIS RIFLE, AND MY FIRST BLACK POWDER RELOADS, AND MY FIRST EVER TWO PP BPCR SHOTS WERE WITHIN 1 7/8" OF EACH OTHER AT 100 YARDS - EVEN IN MY WEAK AND TIRED PHYSICAL CONDITION!

I tweaked the windage and elevation a tad (not enough as it turned out), and the second two holes - my second two-shot group - still at 100 yards - was 1 3/4", center to center, just a little below the black.

One last windage and elevation tweak, and MY FIFTH SHOT WAS A #10 BULL'S EYE AT 100 YARDS, with the second shot only 2 1/4" away.

BRAND NEW RIFLE, NEVER FIRED BEFORE, NEW LOADS I INVENTED, HADN'T HAND LOADED IN 35 YEARS, NEVER LOADED BLACK POWDER BEFORE, FIRST PAPER PATCHES I'D EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE, A TIRED OLD MAN, BUT I CAME AWAY WITH BETTER THAN A 2 MOA FOR THE first DAY. THAT, DEAR HEARTS, IS GOOD NEWS!

With the open-heart surgery in less than a week, I probably won't be able to answer any repies to this forum. But if you want to reach me, personally, please just use my email address, oldmanriver@alltel.net.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR ALL YOUR GREAT HELP OVER THE MONTHS!

willdixon
06-05-2008, 12:16 AM
HEY GUYS -

Want to see A VIDEO of my very first shot from this PEDERSOLI SHARPS QUIGLEY 50/2.50?

Want to see whether a 50/2.50 has any RECOIL OR NOT?

Check out this URL. Now, by the way, when I left my house this morning to go out to the range, I forgot my brand new, heavy-duty front rifle rest, and had to improvise with this junk, and, in my haste, I also neglected to rest the rifle on its sweet spot. BUT BIG BERTHA HERE STILL MANAGED TO SHOOT BETTER THAN 2 MOA AT 100 YARDS THIS FIRST DAY, UNDER THESE POOR CIRCUMSTANCES - NOT TOO AWFULLY BAD, HUH?

And no, the recoil LOOKS horrendous, but it was not at all. It just SHOVES YOU, it doesn't HIT YOU. No problem at all.

HERE'S THE VIDEO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aek3BGXeePg&feature=user

Southern Son
06-05-2008, 07:10 AM
Good Stuff, Will. I just ordered a heap of stuff from BACO and I was ummming and ahhhing whether to buy the 540 grain .441 PP mold. I decided against it as I had already spent a fair amount, but now I really wish I had. I would luv to try PP, but money is short and a new mold is eapensive. Plus I would need the paper and all the other little bits. Hearing your success has pushed me back towards doing it.

willdixon
06-05-2008, 09:25 AM
THAT'S FUNNY, SOUTHERN SON . . . .

The MAIN REASON I bought the BACO 492 mould is because I had just read a bunch of shooting reports by one of the big-shot PP BPCR shooters - I can't remember which one - and he RAVED ABOUT HIS BACO 441 OVER AND OVER. And he was posting fabulous scores at long ranges with it. And it was about the same diameter, relative to his .45 bore that the .492 mould is relative to my .50 bore.

Yes, by all means - buy the 441 if you can afford it!

And don't worry about the cost of the "paper and all the other little bits". They're nothing.

I WOULD VERY DEFINITELY GIVE MY BACO MOULD THE VERY HIGHEST SCORE, AND THE PRICE WAS ONLY $109.

Cheers!

405
06-05-2008, 08:46 PM
willdixon, :drinks:
That is certainly good news!!!
Yes, they do shove and make a whooom sound :) That recoil is different from the jolt of the big high powered, high velocity rifle jbullet loads, huh.

Best on Monday !

willdixon
06-05-2008, 09:03 PM
YEAH, THIS PUSHES YOU HARD, BUT IT'S NOT A SHARP HURTING HAMMER BLOW HARD LIKE MY .460 WEATHERBY MAGNUM USED TO BE. That sucker was a killer!

The second finger on my right hand DID get hit by the back of the lever twice, during recoil, but that shooting bench was very cramped and way too short, and my makeshift rifle supports were rickety. I could not hold the rifle properly at all - as you can see in the video and photos. That won't happen again.

Plus, next time, incidentally, I'll be moving out to 200 yards, as far as you can shoot at that particular rifle range.

Thank you for your kind words about Monday.

Later....

405
06-05-2008, 11:33 PM
Yes, about the lever and bumps. You'll find a way to hold that won't do that but still give good trigger control. Just experiment around a little. I've had to do that off the bench with a couple of the lever guns I shoot that have more than average recoil. Forgot to mention- the groups you were shooting were outstanding! Feels good when things pan out from the get go. :)

willdixon
06-06-2008, 12:31 AM
Yes, 405, I did better than a 2 MOA, but I had all sorts of beginner's first day problems.

The worst was my front sight. It was the very thinnest crosshair with the very thinnest circle in the middle, which would be great under most circumstances, but it was the wrong size for those particular black bullseyes. Even a post would have been better. The bullseye filled the entire circle, with no light around the edges of the bullseye, so you couldn't tell where the bullseye was. If the bullseye had been smaller I could have done better. But I've misplaced/lost my card of front sight inserts, and didn't have any other choice!

The bench was way too short for my 34" barrel; I couldn't get a proper upright hold on the rifle, and couldn't support the barrel at its sweet spot.

I left my rifle rest at home, and had to use a rickety ammo can, and it was impossible to move it around microscopically, like is essential for fine benchrest shooting.

Had to use slick wooden blocks under the rear rabbit-ear rest, and they were impossible to control.

I'm on supplimental Oxygen, but left the bottle in the truck, 'cause it wouldn't look too cool to other shooters at the range.

YET THE GREAT RIFLE DID STILL SHOOT BETTER THAN 2 MOA, but I give all the credit to the Pedersoli, and those bullet loads DID turn out just about right.

And yeah - you've got it right - IT REALLY FELT GOOD TO SEE THOSE GROUPS POP UP IN SPITE OF ALL THE SHOOTING PROBLEMS.

Thank you!

willdixon
06-06-2008, 09:41 AM
HEY 405 AND MY OTHER FRIENDS OUT THERE ON THE FORUM....

The horsepistol just called....

Their operating room machines broke down in the middle of some poor other guy's operation.

SO THEY'VE POSTPONED MY OPEN-HEART SURGERY 'TIL NEXT FRIDAY AT 6AM.

So you can quit praying just now, and start in again later in the week - smile!

Thank you so very much for all your kind support!

waksupi
06-06-2008, 10:01 AM
HEY 405 AND MY OTHER FRIENDS OUT THERE ON THE FORUM....

The horsepistol just called....

Their operating room machines broke down in the middle of some poor other guy's operation.

SO THEY'VE POSTPONED MY OPEN-HEART SURGERY 'TIL NEXT FRIDAY AT 6AM.

So you can quit praying just now, and start in again later in the week - smile!

Thank you so very much for all your kind support!

Now, THAT'S comforting!