Picking out a muzzleloader

[aarolar]

I want to pick up a muzzleloader for this upcoming deer season but I need some guidance. I have some nice public land that is primitive weapons only and that includes inlines with scopes and as much as in would love a traditional style I need to go with an inline to stay competitive and plus my main goal is putting meat on the table. However I want an inline with wood instead of plastic because I hate plastic, also I want to use my own cast boolits. So with that in mind what would be the best option to go with?

[repawn]

I don't know what your price point is - but I have Thompson Center encore 309x50 - wood stocks - blued frame and barrel with Williams peep sights - not very traditional looking - but not plastic either. It is a very accurate shooter as well.

[condorjohn]

A few years ago I found an ealy KNIGHT inline w/wood stock on GUNBROKER. In case your'e not familar with them, Knights were made in The USA and of very good quality. The one I found had a factoy Douglas barrel and the previous owner had installed Weaver scope mounts. Paid $120 for it shipped. While back I gave it to my brother. He shoots it a lot. They ae out there, you just have to look aound. Good Luck...

[aarolar]

Price point is as low as I can go for something that is worthwhile. Like I stated this is strictly a meat gathering tool for me although it may turn into more eventually.

[NSB]

After fifty some odd years of deer hunting, with great success, I've come to the conclusion that hunting for meat is much cheaper in a butcher shop. I can buy USDA Prime for a lot less money than I get meat I hunted myself. I think my "hunted" meat runs somewhere around twenty bucks a pound....at least.

[dondiego]

If you want to "stay competitive" you will need to shoot it a lot whether it is an inline or traditional. Either will put meat on the table.

[aarolar]

After fifty some odd years of deer hunting, with great success, I've come to the conclusion that hunting for meat is much cheaper in a butcher shop. I can buy USDA Prime for a lot less money than I get meat I hunted myself. I think my "hunted" meat runs somewhere around twenty bucks a pound....at least.
I dont have that issue my combo hunting fishing WMA liscense is 35 bucks then the cost of a few boolits and some powder and Im set.

[BrianL]

as much as in would love a traditional style I need to go with an inline to stay competitive and plus my main goal is putting meat on the table.

Who are you competing with if this is a hunting gun? The guy who can shoot 250 yds with a scoped inline? Up north here, you can't see more than 50-75 yds if in the woods but your situation may be different.
You can not beat the look of the wood one many of the traditional rifles and they surely will put meat on the table.

[NSB]

I dont have that issue my combo hunting fishing WMA liscense is 35 bucks then the cost of a few boolits and some powder and Im set.
Didn't have to buy a gun, cloths, scope, binoculars, boots, gortex raingear, gasoline, knife, etc, etc, etc? Oh yeah, lost wages for taking off opening day, maybe a weeks vacation, etc, etc, etc? I wish it was just the cost of the license....I'd be getting off cheap.

[mooman76]

I want to pick up a muzzleloader for this upcoming deer season but I need some guidance. I have some nice public land that is primitive weapons only and that includes inlines with scopes and as much as in would love a traditional style I need to go with an inline to stay competitive and plus my main goal is putting meat on the table. However I want an inline with wood instead of plastic because I hate plastic, also I want to use my own cast boolits. So with that in mind what would be the best option to go with?

If you think traditional isn't competitive look up Idahoron.

[aarolar]

Didn't have to buy a gun, cloths, scope, binoculars, boots, gortex raingear, gasoline, knife, etc, etc, etc? Oh yeah, lost wages for taking off opening day, maybe a weeks vacation, etc, etc, etc? I wish it was just the cost of the license....I'd be getting off cheap.
Nope typically go in blue jeans and tee or a plad jacket if its cold. Never drive more than 5 miles to hunt and use the same pocket knife I carry every day for cleaning. Like I said strictly putting meat on the table 80% of what the wife and I eat was home grown or killed by me and Im constantly looking to up that percentage.

Im not saying traditional isn't competitive guys but its no where near as effective as a scoped gun. The deer on public land are super spooky due to all the pressure they receive and a lot of my shots will be weekday afternoon and I want dead deer so I dont have to spend all night tracking.

[BrianL]

Nope typically go in blue jeans and tee or a plad jacket if its cold. Never drive more than 5 miles to hunt and use the same pocket knife I carry every day for cleaning. Like I said strictly putting meat on the table 80% of what the wife and I eat was home grown or killed by me and Im constantly looking to up that percentage.

Im not saying traditional isn't competitive guys but its no where near as effective as a scoped gun. The deer on public land are super spooky due to all the pressure they receive and a lot of my shots will be weekday afternoon and I want dead deer so I dont have to spend all night tracking.

Huh? A half inch hole thru an thru is not effective? Hit them right and there is very little, if any tracking. Hit them wrong and your inline will still have you tracking all night.

Not saying to pick one or the other, but the effectiveness when hit, is not an issue. If badder bullet is the key, use a maxi.

[aarolar]

No you misunderstand I am strictly talking about the sighting systems scope vs irons not the firearms themselves.

[GabbyM]

"Stay Competitive".

I've never felt out done with my Hawkins 45 caliber cap lock. Caliber is a little light for some things. Not little Ga Deer when using maxi balls or other conical bullets. I shoot 100 grains of FFg under a 240 grain Maxi Ball. 54 gr under a 265 grain RCBS hollow based Minie ball for fast reloads. 54gr is what my powder flask spout drops.

Rifle will hit C sized peach cans at 100 yards. Measuring cool factor along with pure class. You need a different system of measurement to rate an inline. As they are not on the same scale.

[BrianL]

No you misunderstand I am strictly talking about the sighting systems scope vs irons not the firearms themselves.

In that respect,an inline is easier to scope, though you can scope a traditional. It just looks so wrong though:shock: (actually my brother needed to scope his TC Hawken due to an eye injury)

[Pyro&Black]

I want to pick up a muzzleloader for this upcoming deer season but I need some guidance. I have some nice public land that is primitive weapons only and that includes inlines with scopes and as much as in would love a traditional style I need to go with an inline to stay competitive and plus my main goal is putting meat on the table. However I want an inline with wood instead of plastic because I hate plastic, also I want to use my own cast boolits. So with that in mind what would be the best option to go with?

New or used inline?
How much are you spending (without scope)?

If used, gunbroker.com is the place to look.

[mooman76]

Very few inlines will come with a wooden stock but either way I wish you luck. Inlines are a little harder to get cast bullets to work but they will work with some load work. I have never paper patched but they seem to be the most promising using cast boolits.

[johnson1942]

check your pm/s

[bob208]

please how a inline is better then a traditional. when we had shooting matches every weekend to breathe some new life into the program we opened it up to inlines. not 0ne showed up to even give it a try.

[aarolar]

Im starting to feel like I kicked a hornets nest...

[10 ga]

Most any scoped inline with a good barrel (not trashed) will kill deer at 100 yds easy. Good cast bullets in the 350 to 450 grain range will work good. You may need a sizeing die as actual bore diameter of ML is quite variable.

Personally I suggest you find a good early mfg. used Knight, White or a TC Black Diamond, etc.... They can be had at very reasonable price and shoot good.

Johnson1942 is the man and if he PM you he'll have the straight stuff.

10

[BrianL]

Im starting to feel like I kicked a hornets nest...

Naw, but the traditionalists do not feel outgunned by the in-lines. Unfortunately, black powder has gone the same way as standard rifles, magnumitis has set in cause everyone knows that deer are becoming immune to big slow-moving chunks of lead. They tend to bounce off leaving the animal even stronger each time.

Fact is that most traditionalists know better and it rubs us the wrong way when folks call our beauties ineffective.

[aarolar]

Yea but I didn't say that I simply said I want a scope and I dont have the heart to scope a traditional BP rifle...

[Pyro&Black]

Im starting to feel like I kicked a hornets nest...

Disregard all that stuff. Lets not turn this thread into an inline vs caplock war of words.
Care to answer my two questions? Cannot give advice without knowing more of your interests and the amount you are spending.

[aarolar]

Like I said my budget is whatever its going to take to get something useful I dont want junk. I dont think shooting a modern inline is going to be something I do for enjoyment I am fixing to build a .358 win on a 700 action next and ill be spending a lot of time with it mostly.

[GabbyM]

Thing is a used side lock can be picked up reasonably cheep. They are either rusty or not.

You did kick a hornets nest. I bought my front loader back in 1970. Before they had separate deer seasons.

My advise is to buy a rifle you'll be proud to have in the safe or on the wall. That alone pretty much bumps the inline out of the picture. Unless you like zip guns.

I'd like to have a flint lock 54 caliber round ball gun.

BTW get real black powder. It stores forever on the shelf and just works better.

[aspangler]

I'll second the real black. It shoots a LOT better in my traditional and my TC FireHawk inline. If you get the inline, be sure to put a card or wad between powder and boolit if you use cast. ALL mine shoot better that way.

[Janoosh]

Not at all, just talkin muzzleloaders.

Check out Idahoron's sticky....it's impressive.

If you want to put the deer down right there....58 round ball.
If you want to put the deer down right there. ..54 round ball
If you want to put the deer down right there. ...50 round ball.
That means get within 100 yds of the deer.....can't see much farther in N.Y. woods.
45/50 cal patched, Idahoron style....now you're talkin distance.

[triggerhappy243]

If you are looking at used muzzleloaders, you will need a drop in bore light. There are bunches of used muzzleloaders for sale if you start to look around. Money talks b.s. Walks.

[nhmikel]

Got a nib Traditions 50 cal shipped to you if interested pm me $200

[Pyro&Black]

Got a nib Traditions 50 cal shipped to you if interested pm me $200

A NIB Traditions Vortek StrikerFire Ultra Light or Hawkens Woodsman??? OK, I'll bite![smilie=p:

[bob208]

a .45 cal prb will kill a deer at 100 yds easy. if you can hit it and there is the problem. not if the caliber is effective. I have seen this many times . guy shoots at a deer with a .45 deer gets away. next year he needs a .50. same story next year got to have a .54.

the biggest problem with in lines is the cost of the shot a dollar a shot or more. you don't shoot much at those prices.

[repawn]

I just picked up a cva mountain rifle a few weeks ago off of Armslist - right now in my state there is a TC hawken for $130 And many other muzzleloaders. May be worth a check to see what is out there. My cva was as new unfired and cost me almost nothing.

[triggerhappy243]

If i came across a t/c hawken with a clean barrel for $130.00, i would jump all over that like an elk in the rut.

[nhmikel]

Will need to check

[Janoosh]

Triggerhappy243....I'd retie my sneakers and race you to it. And at 61 I'd give it my best shot.!!!! LOL

[repawn]

Just checked - it is gone now. There are a few others in the 200 range though. Also a Ruger Old Army for 500 - too bad o just purchased 4 BP guns in the last weeks.

[Harleysboss]

Just saw a TC ThunderHawk 50cal with a walnut stock 24" blue barrel on gunbroker for $125. I had one and sold it, wish I had kept it. Simple, sturdy and accurate rifles. Looks like a#11 nipple for real black. I shot mine with ffg goex and it shot just as good as any of them. Add says like new condition, pictures look real clean.

[nhmikel]

Got a Buckhunter Pro Inline by Traditions nib $200

[koger]

Sent you a pm, holler back man!

[BrianL]

If i came across a t/c hawken with a clean barrel for $130.00, i would jump all over that like an elk in the rut.
I got one from a new gunshop that was putting consignments out just to fill the racks. It was listed at $125 but after looking it over, (it appeared unfired) I noticed that the ramrod was missing the tip. They knocked off $21 and out the door it went for $104 including tax.

But the flip side of that is one that I saw for $275 that appeared new until you looked around the nipple and a look down the bore indicated that it had never been cleaned. Nice wood and lock so I bartered it down to $85 and put a Green Mountain 32 barrel on it.

[rodwha]

They make traditional scopes too:

http://www.namlhunt.com/uploads/2/9/2/2/2922140/7653934_orig.jpg?744

I'm wanting one myself for hunting fields. I love the look!

[triggerhappy243]

Now that is a nice looking rifle.


they make traditional scopes too:

http://www.namlhunt.com/uploads/2/9/2/2/2922140/7653934_orig.jpg?744

i'm wanting one myself for hunting fields. I love the look!

[nhmikel]

Koger...who you talking to? sent pm

[rototerrier]

CVA v2 Optima. Bought it this year to replace an old heavy thompson. Bagged 2 deer with 2 shots. Gets the job done and pretty cheap.

Using 295 grain powerbelts and 2 triple 7 pellets, very consistent all the way out to 150 yrds. Was also accurate at 200, but that just isn't realistic for my hunting environment. 150 was good enough for me.

Both deer this year were less than 75 yards in open fields.

[stu206]

Your CVA Mountain Rifle, if its an old one may have a Green Mountain Barrel on it. That is what type of Barrels were put on CVA from around 1980 time frame. I also have a CVA Mountain Rifle in 50 Cal., also a T/C Hawken in 50 Cal and a T/C Seneca in 45 Cal. The Hawken I have has taken deer and also Elk with a patched round ball instead of a maxi ball.
For deer hunting today I would get a 50 Cal, side lock in a cap lock type of action. It could be used for deer and also elk here in Washington State. Main thing on shooting a muzzle loader whether inline or side lock is shot placement in hunting, heart/lung/brisket shooting means tracking the animal, neck or head shot means dropping where shot.

[BrianL]

Main thing on shooting a muzzle loader whether inline or side lock is shot placement in hunting, heart/lung/brisket shooting means tracking the animal, neck or head shot means dropping where shot.

I must be plain lucky, the last three that I shot through the lungs went about 18"..straight down.

[freebullet]

I get what your after, we have several state parks open for antler less hunting with muzzleloaders or shotguns only.

2 inlines really shine for me.

The cva wolf and the t/c omega.

[aarolar]

I get what your after, we have several state parks open for antler less hunting with muzzleloaders or shotguns only.

2 inlines really shine for me.

The cva wolf and the t/c omega.
Zactly but its funny to me that they dont allow shotguns I would love a slug barrel for the old 1100.

[725]

aarolar :) Not a problem. Everybody here has their favorites and are happy to tell you about 'em. Lots of ways to skin a cat. Most all ML's today will be accurate if you do the range time to develop "the load" and all will put meat on the table. I think the hardest thing will be finding an economical inline with a wood stock. Personally, I'd just stick with the name brands so parts will be easier to find if that ever becomes an issue. If you can ever find a "Gonic", they had wood stocks and can be had for + $100. An oldie, for sure, but they haunt the GS's in the far North East and are wonderfully accurate. The .45's were made to shoot conicals and are a sure fire meat maker. Good luck.

[freebullet]

It's unnecessarily arbitrary in a way that doesn't even make sense.

I shoot the omega with saboted Shockwaves out to 250yds. At 200 it's like a lazer. My longest range shotgun gets me to 200yds and the accuracy can't compare. However the world would end if I used a 30-30 or 357mag.

One of my favorite cast loads from the omega is the mp molds 452-225gr deep hp in a black sabot over 55gr. Of goex fffg. It is an excellent 50 yd deer load with very mild recoil and sound. Works great when hunting the thick stuff where short shots are anticipated. It has the same poi at 50yd as the full power Shockwave loads do at 100yds. Makes it really easy to use multiple load configurations when they share a common zero and the bdc of the nikon makes holdover a breeze.

I found a like new omega in stainless with a thumb hole stock, muzzleloading kit, and nice soft case for $200. The gun alone retailed for 600+ when it was their flagship. I'd look around for a used t/c in one flavor or another. They were making some dandy inlines even if most do have a plastic stock. You could always try your hand at making a wood stock fit.

[10 ga]

the biggest problem with in lines is the cost of the shot a dollar a shot or more. you don't shoot much at those prices.

I don't know what you are shooting but cast work just fine in my ML inlines and sidehammers. I cast and shoot RB and REAL and paperpatched and boolits for sabots. And that is in my smokers and my SMLs. Hand cast are what, about $.04 to $.08 per... 10 ga

[Pyro&Black]

Here's a beautiful wood inline. ($579)
http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/muzzle-loaders/mustang-209.php

[aarolar]

After much thought deliberation and some lost sleep I have decided to go with a traditional Hawken style gun vs an inline. Learning to get better at with irons has been a goal of mine and I can't see a better chance than now. If anyone has any they would be willing to sell please let me know they aren't very popular in my area and in have never seen one used locally.

[BrianL]

I have several that you might like . One is a standard TC Hawken and also have two Renegades. The Hawken is a 50 cal and Renegades are 50 & 54.

[Southron]

I highly recommend the .577 Pedersoli Enfield Naval Rifle for the following reasons:

(1) When a .577 Minie Ball hits the deer in the vitals or near them, , he goes down like he was hit by a freight train.

(2) With a little practice you can be reloaded in 15 to 20 seconds IF a follow up shot is needed to put the deer down (Yup, it happened to me!)

(3) During the Civil War, Confederate Sharpshooters were getting "kills" past 600 yards with the original Enfield Naval Rifles using British made .577 ammo. Those Enfield Naval Rifles were/are the most accurate .577/58 caliber Rifles around!

(3)

[Lefty Red]

CVA Wolf!

[kens]

I been looking at this thread, and not seeing the meat & potatoes of the original post.
The man knows little of a inline M/L, and wants to know what to look for.
With good sights and crisp trigger, almost any gun can be loaded to shoot. Some are difficult to work up a load for, but it can be done.
Assuming all the inlines have good sights and trigger, the only variable left is barrel.
And the barrel is the rub…..
I have a .50 cal with 1:48 twist. A real oddball. The twist is too fast for good roundball, and too slow for a conical. I made it shoot by using a .45acp bullet loaded in a sabot, it was the best I could do to match the bullet weight to the twist.
The poster said he want to cast, but did not indicate cast roundball, conical, or for a sabot.
If he wants to be competitive, he has to match the boolit to the twist.
I will give what I have learned of M/L twist rates:
.58 minie 1:64
.58 roundball 1:72
.50 roundball 1:64
.50 conical 1:36
.50 with a pistol sabot about 1:24
.45 roundball 1:48
.45 conical 1:36
.45 with a pistol sabot, about 1:24
If you want to shoot a pistol bullet in a sabot, then you want a twist that reflects the twist of the pistol that bullet is made for.
Example, if you sabot a .44 bullet in a M/L then a .44 Mag twist is in order.

[59sharps]

I highly recommend the .577 Pedersoli Enfield Naval Rifle for the following reasons:

(1) When a .577 Minie Ball hits the deer in the vitals or near them, , he goes down like he was hit by a freight train.

(2) With a little practice you can be reloaded in 15 to 20 seconds IF a follow up shot is needed to put the deer down (Yup, it happened to me!)

(3) During the Civil War, Confederate Sharpshooters were getting "kills" past 600 yards with the original Enfield Naval Rifles using British made .577 ammo. Those Enfield Naval Rifles were/are the most accurate .577/58 caliber Rifles around!

(3)
I use my sons CS Carbine.