Oh my gosh.. the K31!

[kawasakifreak77]

Seriously. I feel like the kid that didn't get invited to the party..

So I ordered a Swiss K31 & a brick of ammo after reading so many articles about it's finess. Only reason I was leary before was since they're so funny lookin'

I just got back from abusing my shoulder quite a bit, otherwise known as 'the range' & man I am seriously impressed. I'm no Hathcock by any means & managed several sub 2" groups at 100m with stock irons & GP11.

I've shot just about all the major powers WW era bolt guns through my life (Mausers, Arisakas, Enfields, Mosins, Springfields, Carcanos, Eddiestone & even a Ross rifle & a Lebel carbine)

I had come to the conclusion that the sweet little Swedish Mauser was the creme de la creme of the war era boltguns with the Springfield or Eddiestone coming in a close second. I'm having a custom 1919 Gustav built now with a Shilen barrel & helped dad put meat on the table with a Springfield by the ripe age of 13.. stickin' gun was as big as me!

But man, this Ruben is NICE. Between a good 30 caliber punch, detachable mag, the speed of a straight pull & the side mounted sling I am sold! Then being able to order crates of match grade ammo for 50 cents a pop...

Which brings me to a few questions..

What do you do with the GP11 brass? I'm an avid reloader & it seems like such a waste to toss this stuff. Are berdan cases worth keeping around?

I read the 7.5 dies size the cases a wee bit small, as one of the earlier rifles had a smaller chamber?

For pete's freakin' sake where can I get an extra magazine?

I'm debating now on just ordering a boatload of GP11 or gettings dies & brass. I dunno if I could make a load this good. But man I sure wouldn't mind to tone the recoil down a bit & it hits about 5" high anyways.

Lemme know what ya'll think, thanks.

-Ray.

[mrrch]

The cases can be reloaded but the primers may be hard to find.
I have some reloaded rounds waiting for warmer weather to be tried out.
I was impressed the same way after an afternoon of shooting my new K31 and GP11 ammo last fall.
Sweet shooter for sure.
If you don't reload the brass save it for me ��

[mrrch]

Walnut or beech stock?
I picked out a nice walnut stocked one.

[bouncer50]

I and a few friends use Lee dies to reload the Swiss. Buy some brass in the long run it cheaper to reload. I got a few inch and a half groups with mine. Why extra magazine just buy some stripper clips. With the right load you can match or beat factory ammo.

[leadman]

Spare magazines are scarce and expensive. The Lee dies work fine for my K-31s.
Somwhere here there is a sticky on how to convert berdan primers to boxer. I believe Graf & Sons may have the berdan primers, along with powder Valley.
If you don't want to convert or load them sell them on this site as somone will probably want them.
Graf & Sons does sell the brass but don't know the stock status right now. One can load 284 Winchester brass also.

[koehlerrk]

PRVI Partizan, also sold as Wolf Gold Line, is good ammo with great brass. Have a bunch of it, I've adjusted my dies to "just fit" the brass to the chamber, and I anneal the necks every 5 reloads. Result? I have brass that's working up to nearly 30 reloads and still going strong.

Bug-boos - watch your sizing of brass as you do not have a lot of camming power, so brass must be full length sized for smooth operation. However, you can stop at the point where it just slides in reliably.... no need to squish it down any more than that. The other big one is don't hot-rod it... they were specced out at 3200 BAR with a copper crusher. That has been verified to be 3800 BAR on a chamber transducer, or, in American, 55,000 psi. Folks often try to use 308 Winchester or 30-06 loads in this case and have problems because those two run all the way to 62,000 psi and 60,200 psi respectively.

http://theswissriflesdotcommessageboard.yuku.com/topic/10355

I load mine relatively light, 150gr Sierra Gameking with Varget, and it pops out of the barrel at 2600 fps... more than enough for NY white tails, and it will give honest 3/4 moa groups all day long. Chamber pressure for that load is in the 42,000 range, so plenty safe, and it doesn't beat on the rifle or the brass, or the shooter.

http://theswissriflesdotcommessageboard.yuku.com/topic/4939/t/Varget-and-the-7-5x55.html?page=2

Check out the Swiss Rifles forum... tons of info on these old guns out there.

Enjoy it, those guns are real gems.

[1johnlb]

I disagree with the FL sizing, especially if your shooting cast bullet loads. If your shooting full power, I FL resize every other loading, but for cast pressures I only neck size with absolutely no problems and full length after annealing the brass.
I'm on my 5th k31 and with 1 k11 and 1 g1911 under my belt, I'm hooked. The k31 is my favorite milsurp hands down for fun and only 2 imports can compare for accuracy, the swede and the Finnish Mosin but these get just boring sometimes. The k31 is always a blast to shoot. I've had my best loads with the Lee 155 but if your rifle has a tight throat, it will have chambering difficulty.
Congrats on the k31

[Baron von Trollwhack]

excess650 is right about using quality K-31 dies. Both correct loaded case fit and correct bullet seating depth are required. These guns have first class chambers, throats, and barrels.

BvT

[JMtoolman]

Find a Berdan decapper from RCBS, and some Berdan primers and reload away. The brass is some of the best you could find, hold the case upside down and deprime. I use my padded vice to hold the bullet seating die, just drop the case in and deprime. Works good with few lost cases. I had to slightly open up a shell head holder and primer cup to hold the Berdan primers, but that is not a big deal. Good guns, shot deer and elk with mine. The toolman.

[leebuilder]

Hi Kawasakifreak. My cousin experienced some problems with his dies. The were specific to the K11 and the were some feeding problems when he used the reloaded ammo in his K31. With a bit of reshearch he was able to make them work. There is a slight difference.
They are very accurate once dailed in!!!

[kawasakifreak77]

Okie dokie thanks for all the replies!

I think I'm gonna pop for the Hornady K31 specific dies.

Gotta have brass first though so I just ordered a pile of PRVI.

I'll hang on to the Berdan cases. Once I have a little pile I'll polish them up & auction them off here.

That's a bummer about extra mags. Might just buy another for the mag!

I might thread it for my silencer.. Seems like it'd be a great host.

Oh it's in a Beech stock that got just the right amount of 'character' :)

[1johnlb]

The k31 definitely has a larger chamber tolerance for dirty operating conditions, just remember that k31 die won't work on the older Schmidt rifles.

Sounds like your off to a good start.

[Adam Helmer]

Kawasaki,

I would stick with the magazine serially numbered to your K31. A spare mag will run about $50+, if you can find one and it may not feed reliably in your rifle. The Swiss use a neat six-round charger clip that fully encloses the ammo and is made of heavy mill board with metal edge that fits the charger guide on the rifle. I got a dozen charger clips a while back for $10.

I like the Swiss Schmidt-Rubin; I got my first, a M1889 Rifle, in 1961 for $14.50. The M1889 is historically significant, but has a less than .308" bore. I have the M1911 Karbine, M1911 Gewehr and the K-31.

Adam

[VintageRifle]

I use a Lee collet sizing die for one of my K31s that I shoot light loads in. Last count was 7 reloadings before I had to full length size again. Using full power loads, a full length sizing was required each time for the same rifle.

You will like the K31.

[A pause for the COZ]

Dang it!!! Now I am gona have to buy one O these.... [smilie=s:

[alamogunr]

Berdan primers available here:

http://www.dagammo.com/shop/non-corrosive-berdan-primer-c-7/kv762n-large-rifle-berdan-primers-5000-primers-p-47.html

[kawasakifreak77]

I'll look into the chargers. I was just thinking it'd be nice to have a spare mag in case I ever lose the one.

For now I'm going to go with mostly full power Jword loads. But will start experimenting with making subs once I have a source of reloadable brass & dies come in.

[VintageRifle]

Load the magazine from the top while still I the rifle. It does not have to be removed to load it.

[skeet1]

kawasakifreak77 (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?32980-kawasakifreak77)
Powder Valley has Privi Partisan brass for $46.45 per 100 http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/

Ken

[rondog]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfGTvWNI43s

[HollowPoint]

I have nothing but good things to say about my K31; however, the older I get, the less tolerant I am about recoil. With cast bullets recoil isn't an issue for me. Heck, even with jacketed bullets it isn't all that bad with the lighter bullets at full power but, I have been dreaming of re-barreling and re-chambering mine in 6.5x55 Swede to lighten the recoil just a bit. I could then use it for everything from long range coyote hunting to elk hunting; all with superior ballistics. (generally speaking)

My research on the K31 found that you can actually order these rifles in 30/06 and 300 win mag if so desired. (this would make them single shots due to the length of these chamberings) The actions on these rifles are robust enough to easily take the moderate pressures (by comparison) of the 6.5 Swede..

I know many will say that the face of the barrel tang on the K31 rifles is a little tricky to machine but, from what I've seen, it's really not. Once I've accumulated the spare change for a new 6.5 barrel blank and the chamber reamer I believe I'll give it a go. In the mean time, I'll keep enjoying it as it is. 7.5x55 Swiss.

HollowPoint

[kawasakifreak77]

Keep us updated on that HP... I've got a soft spot for anything 6.5mm, especially Swede. :)

[HollowPoint]

I thought about the 6.5x284 also but, that would get me back to the same recoil levels of the 7.5x55 swiss; I think. Another thing was that the angle on the shoulder of a 6.5x284 is a little sharper so I was afraid it may give me chambering problems. Not to mention the fact that this latter chambering is said to be a potential barrel burner if a guy shoots alot.

On top of that possibility, I never was able to find out what the maximum pressure levels were on the 6.5x284. At any rate, I think the 6.5 swede would be a good choice for me. Others may prefer some other chambering. It's still in the dream stage until I can come up with the funds. I'll just have to wait and see.

HollowPoint

[MtGun44]

Hornady dies specifically marked for the K31, not 'just' 7.5x55 work extremely
well for me. I have Redding dies that were much more expensive that I do not
like as much.

[alamogunr]

Hornady dies specifically marked for the K31, not 'just' 7.5x55 work extremely
well for me. I have Redding dies that were much more expensive that I do not
like as much.

Wish you had posted before I bought the Redding dies. I haven't used them yet but plan to soon. I have other dies for the K11.

[Speedo66]

www.aimsurplus.com has the earlier Swiss Schmidt-Rubin rifles and carbines for sale in their C&R section, same caliber, same type toggle action bolt.

[Multigunner]

If neck sized only reloads give any problems in ease of chambering you can try a trick I developed for my .303 Br reloads.

I use each fired case as a snapper at least once, to refine my trgger control.
The impulse of the striker blow micro sizes the case so that when neck sized and reloaded it chambers freely.

[kawasakifreak77]

Daw gonnit! I went back to AIM to order a walnut stocked version & they're out of the K31s. I've always wanted to have an old miltary boltgun with a silencer. Just seems like it would be SO COOL. I don't know if I could cut up an untouched example now..

They do have unissued bayonets though & I'm a big bayonet geek!

[madsenshooter]

CH4D also makes K31 specific dies. Sorta local for me, just up the road from grandma's house. Mine shoots too good to monkey with, though I too like the thought of a 6.5 version.

[jrap]

I'm going to be shooting mine for the first time later today

[sdcitizen]

I've converted the GP11 brass before, well worth doing, it is great reloadable brass. Use a #2 center drill in the tailstock of the lathe to bore through the old primer and make a flash hole, swage with large primer swager, and then clean up the bottom of the pocket with the large primer pocket uniformer. Can do about 500 in 2 hours.

[Tedly]

I've been shooting mine for the last 10yrs. using GP11 brass...hydraulic decapping method . I've been using PMC Berdan primers , laid in 10,000 for these guns and also shoot military brass out of the Swedish Mauser and Steyr straight pull...just not that much work and the quality of the brass is in all cases better than anything commercial...HTH...Tedly

[MtGun44]

Rebarreling a K31 is not trivial. Typical Swiss - do it a totally different
way. I have been told that the bolt locks into the barrel, NOT the receiver
and most folks here that rebarrel leave the barrel stub in place to give
locking recesses and thread the stub inside for the new barrel. Sounds
pretty much unappealing to me.

[Bob S]

The bolt does not lock into the barrel, but the barrel breech bolster is way oversized compared to what we gringos are used to; and the primary extraction cams are machined into the breech face. See the pix. Krieger will make you an oversized barrel blank, for a price (first-born male child comes to mind), but machining that cam surface is probably beyond the ability of most gunsmiths these days. Larry Racine was rebarreling K31's very successfully by using the existing, or a spare, barrel as a bushing. There is nothing wrong with this method if it is done carefully, and Larry was known for producing long range rifles with high precision. I'm not sure he is still in business. He's older than me, and I am older than most dirt. Not all, but most.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/BobS1/K31/K31barrelbreechface.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/BobS1/K31/K31barreltennon.jpg

Respectfully,
Bob S.

[MtGun44]

Bob, thanks so much for the clarification. I was only reporting what I had heard, now
it is good to get the straight scoop. Apparently the basic point of the barrel stub being
used as a busing for a new barrel is correct, but for different reasons (diameter and extraction
cam surfaces) than I was told.

I appreciate the education, sir.

[kawasakifreak77]

Anyone rebarreling one of these Swiss rifles would be far more ambitious & talented than myself! A lot of the attraction of this rifle is it's ability to use 308" bullets, which I have a ton of.

I nabbed another K31 this morning off an ole boy local here complete with sling, a couple strippers, half a box of boxer ammo & a neat little gun sock to protect it.

Sooo.. the first K31 is now at my local smith's getting threaded for my silencer! Once I can find dies (dangit midway sold out!) & shoot up a pile of boxer brass, I'll develop a sub load with Lapua 200 grain FMJs.

Can. Not. Freaking. Wait! :D

[MtGun44]

You will need to seat those 200 gr bullets very deeply, as there is essentially
no throat beyond a chamfer of the back of the rifling in a new bbl. As they wear,
there is a throat that develops, but still usually very short.

[kawasakifreak77]

Perfect! That will use up case capacity, which there will be gobs of. Thankfully I have a good supply of Trailboss which is not only super fluffy but very quiet. :) The Lapua B416 sub bullets also have a very short ogive so that will use up even more case.

I just got back from the range with my second K31 & MAN! How could you get a better rifle?? After moving the front post forward a bit & double checking POI, I was picking off PIECES of clay pigeons at 100m! I could barely see them but if I could see them, I could shoot 'em!

[HollowPoint]

Anyone rebarreling one of these Swiss rifles would be far more ambitious & talented than myself! A lot of the attraction of this rifle is it's ability to use 308" bullets, which I have a ton of.

I nabbed another K31 this morning off an ole boy local here complete with sling, a couple strippers, half a box of boxer ammo & a neat little gun sock to protect it.

Sooo.. the first K31 is now at my local smith's getting threaded for my silencer! Once I can find dies (dangit midway sold out!) & shoot up a pile of boxer brass, I'll develop a sub load with Lapua 200 grain FMJs.

Can. Not. Freaking. Wait! :D

If I were to post a picture of the same K31 tang as shown above, with the angled-cam digitally removed, it would show that turning the tang on a K31 is in some ways similar to turning the tang on a remington action; or many other threaded tangs. The difference being that the remington doesn't have that angled-cam. It has more of a circular counter-bore instead.

It will be a long time before I can accumulate the spare change for a new 6.5 barrel and chamber reamer but when I do, I intend to try re-barreling and re-chambering my K31. Maybe I'm just stupid but, I don't see it as being all that complicated. In my minds-eye, I see myself going at it in the same way I rebarreled my Lee Enfield.

I used the Savage Barrel-Nut method. On the K31, using this method would allow the use of a less expensive yet, quality barrel without having to shell out for the added diameter. As far as that angled-cam section, I envision myself initially turning the tang to shape, leaving that angled-cam section as a full counter bore like on the remington and actually shaping it using my vertical mill to rough off most of the excess metal that forms the angled-cam and then using a quality set of finishing files to finish it up.

I'm afraid that trying to describe what I have in mind with the written word makes it sound far more complicated than it really is. I don't want to make a bushing out of my existing barrel. It's in excellent condition and a fine shooter. I just want something different that's all. It's a personal preference thing. If I wanted to change it back down the road, I could still do that; or I could sell the original barrel. I could probably get a good portion of my money back that I'll be paying for the new 6.5 barrel.

Of course, the purists frown on such things but, I don't really care. My rifle; my preferences. In researching the re-barreling of these K31's, the vast majority of comments I came across seemed to echo the sentiment of it being a complicated endeavor. I just don't see it that way. Proving the nay-sayers wrong would be my secondary reason for wanting to re-barrel and re-chamber my K31.

HollowPoint

[kawasakifreak77]

Well I take my hat of to ya for the endeavor man. A Swede M96 barrel wouldn't help you along would it?

[HollowPoint]

Well I take my hat of to ya for the endeavor man. A Swede M96 barrel wouldn't help you along would it?

I don't really think it would work but I've never seen an actual barrel off of an M96. I'm thinking that the tang dimensions may not be conducive to being re-cut to fit the receiver of a K31 but again, I've never actually seen one in person.

I'm kinda wanting to start from scratch, with a new barrel blank. That way, if it goes south on me I have no one to blame but myself.

Right now I have virtually nothing in 6.5 caliber in my stash of gun stuff. A project like this would mean that not only would I have to buy a barrel and chamber reamer; I'd also have to get reloading dies, brass and bullets. I can make my own receiver-wrench and use the old barrel vice I cobbled together to take apart my old enfield. So it's not just a matter of saving up for a barrel and reamer.

But still, I look forward to trying it.

HollowPoint

[barthmonster]

For a few years I've followed the researched method of making my 7.5x55 brass from 284 win. Now that you can't find 284 win brass but PRVI 7.5x55 is readily available does anyone know if you can do the reverse? I know the 7.5x55 case-head diameter is larger but if the bolt gun you're using doesn't mind then could you? 7.5x55 shellholder & 284 win dies?