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WILCO
03-13-2015, 10:08 AM
OK, time to play the Grinch a bit. . . .
Hidalgo is a good movie, but the guy that really "lived" that story
was a total con man. He told great stories about what he and his
horse had done in Arabian races, except it was all made up.


In an earlier thread, MtGun44 made a statement regarding Frank Hopkins (Hildago fame) that I'd not heard before. I did a little research and this is what I found:

http://www.frankhopkins.com/biography.html

28. Frank Hopkins - UPDATE

By John Fusco
XXXSince the official launch of Frankhopkins.com in 2003, nearly 10,000 emails have streamed into this site. That’s quite a number considering that very few people today ever heard of the man prior to the release of “Hidalgo.”
XXXE-mails from as far away as Brazil and Germany have expressed an interest in Frank T. Hopkins and/or Spanish Mustangs; many were simply fan letters—some from fans of the movie, some from new fans of Hopkins; a great many folks wanted to learn more about Frank and his life. But we never expected to hear from people who would help us learn more about him—people who knew Mr. Hopkins personally and who were surprised to hear his name in the media again after more than half a century.
XXXThe first to contact us were Mr. and Mrs. Walter Pyle, friends of Frank Hopkins’ from sixty years back; they’d been surprised to hear a familiar name on a local CBS news broadcast about “Hidalgo.” We were eager to travel and meet this salt-of-the-earth couple, respected livestock breeders who knew Frank in the 1940’s when they ran a riding stable at Pocantico Hills, NY. According to the Pyle’s, Frank was often a special guest at the adjacent Rockefeller Estate where both Walt and Edith had worked in security at various times. During these visits, the Pyle’s say, Hopkins rode Athabascan mustangs that few could get a saddle near, floated the teeth of horses deemed “untouchable,” and sometimes used his knowledge of Native American horse medicine to treat horses for worms.
XXXAll this while Frank was well into his 80’s.
XXXWalt’s father, Tom Pyle, was head of security for the Rockefeller’s for fifty years. He had known Frank for a long time, valuing him as a friend, horseman, and fellow naturalist (Hopkins, Walt says, endlessly impressed his father with his knowledge of medicinal plants). When Frank would visit the estate, his western saddle in the backseat of a 40’s auto, it became a special occasion. When asked what drew the old cowboy to the estate on Sundays, Walt Pyle smiles at the memory: “100 miles of bridle trails,” he says. It was where Old Frank could open up, and ride distance again. “And how,” Walt adds. “He was way up in years, but…I was amazed… what he could do with a horse.”
XXXEdith, now in her 80’s, had been a young distance rider herself, competing in 100-mile trail events five times. Hopkins’ name was renowned among her crowd and she took pride in knowing him. Today, she is still actively breeding race horses (she once owned Driving Drizzle when he won a dramatic victory at Rockingham Park). Her evaluation of the aging Hopkins’ equestrian skills: “He was quite a horseman. Oh, yes.”
XXXHearing from surviving friends of Frank Hopkins was an unexpected thrill, tempered only by the regret that we hadn’t heard from them earlier—before the movie, let alone the controversy that would surround its veracity.
XXXThat controversy, of course, was the impassioned crusade that came to be promoted as “the Hopkins Hoax.” This campaign against Frank was started by husband and wife founders of an international equestrian guild. The attacks appeared online while “Hidalgo” was still filming in the middle of the desert—a total surprise to all involved with the production. The would-be debunkers—who had never heard of Hopkins before the announcement of the movie-- began denouncing him as a fraud, a self-promoting charlatan, and “ghoul.” They, as many of you will recall, accused the filmmakers of making a propaganda piece as a metaphor for the U.S. invasion of Iraq. A cowboy in the desert was their repeated protest (they obviously never researched my politics or Viggo’s more public ones). In an effort to debunk the movie, they would cite a lack of documentation for Hopkins’ rides. This observation came as no bombshell: these rides were not the Kentucky Derby, but rather underground, extreme distance contests—rarely, if ever, reported on or advertised.

More at this link: http://www.frankhopkins.com/articles28.html

w5pv
03-13-2015, 03:18 PM
Intresting post

MtGun44
03-14-2015, 01:59 AM
Quoting from Wikipedia is NOT conclusive by any means, but here I go:

"According to the Longriders Guild, the Yemen Government, United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabian Government say officially that there has never been an "Ocean of Fire" race. Hopkins never named the event; he referred to it in his writings as an annual ceremonial ride in the region.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidalgo_(film)#cite_note-basha-6) According to the Arab historian Dr. Awad al-Badi, such a lengthy race was impossible. He said,
"There is no record or reference to Hopkins with or without his mustangs ever having set foot on Arabian soil. The idea of a historic long-distance Arab horse race is pure nonsense and flies against all reason. Such an event in Arabia any time in the past is impossible simply from a technical, logistical, cultural and geopolitical point of view. It has never been part of our rich traditions and equestrian heritage."[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidalgo_(film)#cite_note-harrigan-7) "


I have no real idea if this is true or not. It seemed a bit far fetched when I
saw the movie, which I enjoyed. After the movie said it was based on
fact, I did a LITTLE bit of web searching and came away with the impression
that the guy was a faker.

OTOH, who ever heard of an Arab that would lie about something. . . .
. . . OOPS. :bigsmyl2:


More info to process, this story says the guy was a charlatan, too:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/life_and_art/2004/03/a_mirage_in_the_desert.html

No real dog in this fight, but it seems that lots of folks who should know say that
most of the tales that this guy told cannot find the slightest bit of documentation
that he ever did ANY of the tall tales that he told.

Seems like most other famous people have pictures, and other documentation and
other people that were there and witnessed their feats and adventures. This guy
seems to have none of that, and in fact a lot of folks that say that not only do they
not know about HIM but never heard of the "famous" events that he won.

How do we know what Buffalo Bill did? Army pay records, lots of folks wrote what
they say him do at the time, there are motion pictures of some of it, and I have
even seen pictures of him and the Kossaks that rode with him in the country
of Georgia, documenting that even they know about him and his Wild West
Show. I have been told that there are still records at Ft. Leavenworth with
the pistol club that shoots there recording James Butler Hickock's many
pistol match wins, and his gunfight in Springfield, Mo was documented in
the newspaper the day it happened. Real things of consequence leave
some sort of trails.

Lots of other examples of famous people that can be easily documented,
so when it appears that most or all of the stories cannot be documented in
any way, and nobody else can remember or wrote it down at the time anything
about these adventures. . . . . . . . I get skeptical.

Maybe there are just lots of folks out to get this guy and deny him his
justly earned fame. . . . . . you decide for yourself, I know I have.

Bill

WILCO
03-14-2015, 09:34 AM
Thanks for chiming in Bill. Always glad for your input.

reloader28
03-14-2015, 11:30 AM
Buffalo Bill was also a drunk and a ***** monger. You wont find that in the books or on the computer.
How do I know that? Because I live by Cody and grew up here. I aint seen it wrote down, but have heard it on down the line from people that knew him and worked on his ranch.
I dont know if its true or not, but something dont always have to be documented to be true.

MtGun44
03-14-2015, 01:22 PM
I did think of another movie that applies. . . . . . . a favorite, too.

"Secondhand Lions" , who knows what tall tales might actually be true.

GOPHER SLAYER
03-14-2015, 03:46 PM
The entire story is a crock. I read a report on this yarn in I believe, Western Horseman. Frank told of one ride that supposedly started in Galveston, Texas, and goes to Maine. Since Galveston is an island it would be a stupid place to start a long distance ride. No paper or public document recorded such an event in Texas or Maine. I have no way of knowing what the man actually said in life but in the film he mentioned knowing Wild Bill Hickok. Since Wild Bill was murdered in 1876 someone who knew him or drank with him would have had to be in at least in his early twenties so by the turn of the century be in his fifties. I don't think so. The numbers don't add up.

starmac
03-14-2015, 05:35 PM
It was a good movie, I don't have a clue or really a care if there was any vestage of truth to it.
One thing to think about even in todays times how much documentation is available on our presidents life, even with all his college buddies presumably still alive and kicking. lol

Look at Billy the Kid. Lots of proof he was killed, then again lots that he wasn't. lol

GOPHER SLAYER
03-14-2015, 06:41 PM
The point I was trying to make is this. The endurance race I was talking about that supposedly went from Galveston to Maine would have to pass through hundreds of towns but the reporter who wrote the story could find no trace of any records or newspaper articles that referred to such a race passing there way. I am sure someone would notice all the strange riders passing through . I did see a mistake in the filming of the last scene of the movie. When Frank turned the mustang loose to run with the wild herd he forgot to remove the horseshoes. As for Billy the Kid, the only evidence I have heard about was some character called Brushy Bill who came forth decades later and claimed to be Billy. Photo comparison showed it was impossible. The same stories were around about Jesse James until they dug up his bones and let DNA settle it once and for all. I did see a picture of a young man who was a dead ringer for Billy. His mother took him to town to get a formal picture made. It was around the close of the 19th century. Her name was Paulita Maxwell, the girl Billy was visiting the night he was shot. I should also point out that Billy was not left handed. When I was fifteen years old, on a car trip through New Mexico I bought a post card with Billy's picture on it and you could see in the picture that the loading gate was on the wrong side of his 1873 Winchester. When they copied the tin type they actually reversed the image. I don't know why it took them so long to catch the mistake.

Multigunner
03-14-2015, 09:59 PM
Might have been an exagerated account of the actual endurance races held in Saudi Arabia to this day.
http://www.arriyadh.com/Eng/Sports/Left/Traditiona/getdocument.aspx?f=/openshare/Eng/Sports/Left/Traditiona/Horse-Racing.doc_cvt.htm

In modern times the races are in three stages of 25 kilometers each.

Till recent times they held mass camel races in open desert, now those are also confined to tracks.