Lee 45 cal Mini in the 43 Spanish?

[brstevns]

Has anyone tried the Lee 45cal Mini in the 43 Spanish? - Either sized to bore or sized and Paper Patch?

[John in PA]

Peabody or Rolling block? A lot of the Peabody's run bores larger that .439", often as large a .446", so the nominal .445 as-cast diameter of the .45 Minie should be fine. But, if cast of soft lead and loaded with full charges of black powder, it may "shuttlecock" badly as it exits the muzzle and be indifferent for accuracy. Mild loads it might work well. The other issue with the .445 is the skimpy lube grooves. Maybe filling the hollow base with lube and a card wad under the bullet would keep the throat from building up too much fouling. And, a tight chamber neck might make the cartridge tough to chamber with the oversize bullet.

Suggest slugging the bore and doing a chamber cast.

[brstevns]

Peabody or Rolling block? A lot of the Peabody's run bores larger that .439", often as large a .446", so the nominal .445 as-cast diameter of the .45 Minie should be fine. But, if cast of soft lead and loaded with full charges of black powder, it may "shuttlecock" badly as it exits the muzzle and be indifferent for accuracy. Mild loads it might work well. The other issue with the .445 is the skimpy lube grooves. Maybe filling the hollow base with lube and a card wad under the bullet would keep the throat from building up too much fouling. And, a tight chamber neck might make the cartridge tough to chamber with the oversize bullet.

Suggest slugging the bore and doing a chamber cast.The bore is .442 and it is a rolling block. Was thinking of sizing it to bore and using a grease cookie under it.

[country gent]

Grease cookie or light wad may fill or push up into the hollow base and stick in it degrading accuracy also. Use a heavy thick wad under bullet .030 or .060 napa rubber fiber gasket material may work well. Will be intersting to hear the results also

[brstevns]

Grease cookie or light wad may fill or push up into the hollow base and stick in it degrading accuracy also. Use a heavy thick wad under bullet .030 or .060 napa rubber fiber gasket material may work well. Will be intersting to hear the results also How about a shotshell fiber wad cut to those dimensions?

[Don McDowell]

Why not just order the correct mould for the cartridge and be done with it?

[brstevns]

Why not just order the correct mould for the cartridge and be done with it? It is called make do with what you have because you cannot afford other wise.

[Don McDowell]

Can't or won't?

[brstevns]

Can't or won't? In my case it is (can't) afford. I apologize for the way it came out on my last post. The written word is sometimes taken in the wrong way. I meant no offence in my reply. This is just one of those cases were there is no way but for me to use what I have to work with, at least, for the time being. On a small fixed income and wife going in for a knee replacement in the morning. Death in the family last week, had no life insurance or burial plan. Money is short for the time being.

[Don McDowell]

Well consider the cost of a sizing die to take that miniball down to the proper size, and not know if it will work or not, against the 70$ or less for a proper lyman mould. One other option might be to get a 300 gr 44 magnum mould and patch it up.

[Good Cheer]

The tinkerer's song...

Use it up.
Wear it out.
Make it do or do without.

By the way, the Lyman 445599 works purty dang good in the H&R .45 Colt with the base full of lube and just the rear ring stuck in the case mouth.

[brstevns]

Well consider the cost of a sizing die to take that miniball down to the proper size, and not know if it will work or not, against the 70$ or less for a proper lyman mould. One other option might be to get a 300 gr 44 magnum mould and patch it up.
I am going to PP some 44 cal bullet as well. Had a extra Lee push thru die .430 and was able to open it to .440 so far with no problems. Will see how things work out.

[ascast]

John in PA is dead on. The Lyman 439186 is probably the best off the rack mold for that, soft for black or pistol powder, harder for smokeless. It is a bevel base and casts easy.
NEI used to offer a few flat base and maybe a tad larger.

[fouronesix]

I am going to PP some 44 cal bullet as well. Had a extra Lee push thru die .430 and was able to open it to .440 so far with no problems. Will see how things work out.

You can probably "work around" any number of combinations that will send a bullet downrange. Loading up some 43 Spanish ammo and making it go bang is one thing. Working out a load that is reliable, safe and accurate is entirely a different thing. Pick the range, 50 yds, 100 yds- doesn't matter. Shoot it off a bench at a paper target. Post pictures of the target and report results.

If that 43 Spanish RB is an old original you will find out what works and what doesn't.

[enfield]

Lyman 446110 is a nice mould, I bought a new one ( by the time it reaches Canada its about $110.00 ) but then I was at a gun show and found a guy selling old moulds and picked up a very nice used 446110 ( older style different shape ) that was only $ 25.00 . if your on a budget, keep a sharp eye out at gun shows because oddball stuff does show up.

[brstevns]

Wondering if the skirt will cause any problems. I would think if this bullet works in a 45 muzzle loader at or near 1500 fps it should not be any problems in the 43 Spanish at the same FPS ? Am I correct to think this?

[brstevns]

bump to #16

[Red River Rick]

Wondering if the skirt will cause any problems. I would think if this bullet works in a 45 muzzle loader at or near 1500 fps it should not be any problems in the 43 Spanish at the same FPS ? Am I correct to think this?

Don't see why not. The British did something very similar with the Snider round and it was a HB design. Only difference is, they had a clay plug in the base of the bullet to keep it from deforming and to also aid in obturation.

Some shooters have used "Bondo" to fill the HB of their mini bullets. I don't see why it wouldn't work in your case.

You won't know until you try.

RRR

[bigted]

fill the throat ... fill the throat ... fill the throat ... fill the throat !!! :Bright idea:

[country gent]

If you suspect problems with the skirt turn some off the plug and make the walls thicker to make a little stiffer. .010-.015 should make a visible diffrence.

[brstevns]

If you suspect problems with the skirt turn some off the plug and make the walls thicker to make a little stiffer. .010-.015 should make a visible diffrence.I have been thinking along that line.

[fouronesix]

In an original 43 Span Rem RB, somewhere between .439-.442 diameter bullet is about all you can do with an original chamber neck diameter of about .461 and with brass of a normal case neck wall thickness of about .009-.010. I can get a .442 or slightly larger bullet to chamber in my rifle, but have noticed no increase in accuracy over a bullet sized to about .441- .4415. Plus, when I tried the .442+ diameter, I occasionally had a round that was sticky to chamber. A full BP charge will obturate soft alloy to help fill the grooves- if no harder than about 10 BHN. A hollow base in one form or another may or may not help much- but won't hurt to give it a try.

If your rifle has an original chamber and throat design there is no way to "fill the throat". A bullet diameter of .441 is about the largest that will both chamber easily and allow for "clean" bullet release given the most common brass neck wall thickness of between .009 and .010. And the same holds true of many if not most of the old BP era throats and chambers. Those old throats are usually just a simple taper beginning at the OD of the case mouth that extends on into the bore. Therefore with the 43 Span, to fill the throat, would require a bullet diameter of about .461…. which obviously won't chamber. This info and data based on experience with and measurements of my 43 Span Rem RB…. which I imagine is within the normal range of those.

BTW and something to watch for if you try paper patch-- that big, simple tapered throat can also cause the "paper ring" nuisance when shooting paper patched bullets.

[brstevns]

In an original 43 Span Rem RB, somewhere between .439-.442 diameter bullet is about all you can do with an original chamber neck diameter of about .461 and with brass of a normal case neck wall thickness of about .009-.010. I can get a .442 or slightly larger bullet to chamber in my rifle, but have noticed no increase in accuracy over a bullet sized to about .441- .4415. Plus, when I tried the .442+ diameter, I occasionally had a round that was sticky to chamber. A full BP charge will obturate soft alloy to help fill the grooves- if no harder than about 10 BHN. A hollow base in one form or another may or may not help much- but won't hurt to give it a try.

If your rifle has an original chamber and throat design there is no way to "fill the throat". A bullet diameter of .441 is about the largest that will both chamber easily and allow for "clean" bullet release given the most common brass neck wall thickness of between .009 and .010. And the same holds true of many if not most of the old BP era throats and chambers. Those old throats are usually just a simple taper beginning at the OD of the case mouth that extends on into the bore. Therefore with the 43 Span, to fill the throat, would require a bullet diameter of about .461…. which obviously won't chamber. This info and data based on experience with and measurements of my 43 Span Rem RB…. which I imagine is within the normal range of those.

BTW and something to watch for if you try paper patch-- that big, simple tapered throat can also cause the "paper ring" nuisance when shooting paper patched bullets. Yes, I will be sizing it down to .440 the largest that will chamber in my rifle .

[brstevns]

Finally got to try some of the Lee 45 minies sized down to .440 and loaded over 12 gr Unique. Fired 20 rounds are so at 50 yards. They grouped better then the Lyman 43 Spanish bullet. Now need to try them at 100 yards and maybe with AA5477.

[missionary5155]

Good morning brstevns
Nothing wrong with what you are doing. Have three of these beasts and they are all fat throated so those farmer / troops of the South of the border Armies could keep on loading, shooting and maybe survive the day.
I would challenge you to get yourself a pound of BP (2F) and load that same bullet over the intended powder the rifle was designed to shoot.
I have that Lyman 439186 mold and lapped it out to drop .442 40-1 bullets. They will bump up and do make for far better shooting. Just load 5 and see what they will do. An over powder wad with a grease cookie will help. Shoot them at 50 yards and take your time.
Then if they shot better load another 5 rounds in the same cases with no sizing the case. Shoot those at 100 yards. Take your time as you are wanting to see the real accuracy capability of that rifle.
Now try to beat that BP group with any smokeless load. This test is what I use with all BP cartridge rifles and revolvers to find out what they can really do. Loads are more refined after a few loadings and I may shift to 3F depending on the rifle but have not yet found a smokeless load that can beat BP in a BP firearm. 50-95 right down to 32-20.
Mike in Peru

[Nobade]

Just to chime in on this, I have recently been having very good results with my Argentine roller shooting 385gr. boolits sized to .430" and paper patched up to .442". That way I use a standard off the shelf Lee sizer, patch, and don't have to size again afterward. Fits the cases perfectly and shoots very well loaded over a thin grease cookie and a very lightly duplexed load of FFg. By duplexing, you get the convenience of smokeless and the accuracy and boolit bumping effect of black. Shoot all day and don't have to wipe. With the odd (by modern standards) dimensions of these rifles, this seems to make the most sense. Great performance, tracks to the sights, and no worries about overpressuring from straight smokeless loads.

-Nobade

[brstevns]

Just to chime in on this, I have recently been having very good results with my Argentine roller shooting 385gr. boolits sized to .430" and paper patched up to .442". That way I use a standard off the shelf Lee sizer, patch, and don't have to size again afterward. Fits the cases perfectly and shoots very well loaded over a thin grease cookie and a very lightly duplexed load of FFg. By duplexing, you get the convenience of smokeless and the accuracy and boolit bumping effect of black. Shoot all day and don't have to wipe. With the odd (by modern standards) dimensions of these rifles, this seems to make the most sense. Great performance, tracks to the sights, and no worries about overpressuring from straight smokeless loads.

-Nobade
Been using 12 gr Unique and I not going to go over that charge for Unique. I have also tired 24 gr of AA5477

[brstevns]

Been using 12 gr Unique and I not going to go over that charge for Unique. I have also tired 24 gr of AA5477
See new post Lee 45 cal Minie in 43 Spanish update