how to bump back shoulder on 44 mag/30-40 shotshell brass

[happy7]

I have been making shotshells for my 44 mag using 30-40 krag brass to use the full length of my cylinder in my redhawk. this is working very well, however after the first shot, the brass forms to the chamber and I get a shoulder on the casing where the chamber narrows at the front of the cylinder. This is good and expected, but I find that in order to get the performance I want out of the shot the pressures are high enough that the brass really needs to be sized to bump back the shoulder in order to keep the heads of the casing from dragging on the frame when the cylinder is rotated. So does anyone have any solutions for this? One I know of would be to get a custom die, but setup costs are like $100 which is more than I am willing to spend. Anyone interested in a group buy on this?

[jhrosier]

If you have a .40 S&W sizer, try using it to size just the forward part of your shotshell.

Jack

[Scrounger]

If your .44 mag sizer is one that doesn't have the de-priming rod in it, can't you simply run the case into it as far as you want to relocate the shoulder? Maybe not turn the die all the way into the press... Am I making myself clear, is this workable? I'll be loading some of those myself so I'm interested in this.

[happy7]

Jack,

I have a 41 caliber sizer that works as you say to size the forward part of the case. It is the perfect size, however, it will not size the shoulder, as it is too sharp on the forward end. It puts a ring indentation around the brass at the shoulder if i try to get it to size the shoulder. I suppose if I could find a 41 caliber sizer that was radiused, that could work. But I am not sure if such an animal exists. I guess I could take a fired casing with me next time I get to the big city and try it in the mouth of some 41 dies on display. Or if I could find a steel sizer and find someone who can put a radius on it.

Scrounger, I can size the part of the case below the shoulder, but the shoulder itself and above the shoulder is too small a diameter for the 44 die.

[Scrounger]

I think the part of the case above the shoulder must be at least bullet diameter size, say 0.432" give or take a couple of thousandths. How about running it into a Lee Cast Bullet Sizer Die? Once again, I haven't tried this, just trying to imagine a way to get it done. I suppose you could sweet talk Buckshot or one of the other machinist types to make a custom die for you.

[Pepe Ray]

The 41 mag die is the correct size. As to the sharp edge;
I've noticed in my selection of carbide dies that the Lymans appear to be a lot
rounder than the RCBS. I would propose that it would be enough to accommodate
the shoulder radius needed. This presumes they haven't changed design in 25 yrs.
Take a look.
Pepe Ray

[jhrosier]

Happy7,
How about trying the seater die in stead of the sizer?
The seaters usually are a few thou bigger and have a radius.

Jack

[skeettx]

44-40 die :)

[jimkim]

This is a 444 Marlin case that was necked down using a 40 S&W/10mm sizing die. You should be able to do the same thing. If it doesn't want to fit, you can use a 30-06 or similar die to put a taper on the neck. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180916/bfd7d183b8c2b7520d4f425562cf954c.jpg

Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

[skeettx]

What load are you using in the shot load?
Thank you
Mike

[17nut]

44-40 die :)

+1:-)

[country gent]

The 44-40 wont size the neck portion down enough. You need to get the neck portion down to .430 or so 44-40 will size for a .429 bullet leaving an extra .020 on the dia. A 38-40 die will give what you want. A 10mm or .40 S&W die will work but the shoulder will be what the radius of the die is. And it will be touchy to set since you cant just touch the shell holder to the die to get close. WHat would be an Ideal set up would be one of the noe push thru sizers with a .430 bushing and a 20* leade angle into the bushing.
A simple set up could be made from a 7/8 14 bolt on the lathe to size these cases one pass fairly easily and quickly. drill thru bolt with a 3/8 drill on center line and clean up with a .415 or so to give a good finish and close to size ream to .429-.430 thru hole. Grind a boring bar with a 20* face angle and open bottom of hole up to .002 under fired case size to .010 less than shoulder length. Lightly polish this up andit will size your brass. A lee type die could be made in the drill press in the same manner. A block of steel 1" round or hex or square stock long enough to contain the complete case. Drill and polish as above and like the Lee loader use a mallet or ahrbor press to push cases into it and push out with a rod. PM me and we can talk this thru.

[high standard 40]

To the OP, I have used a 41 Mag sizer die to do this exact thing. But for me it's for a DW 44 revolver.

[Outpost75]

I just buy the Starline 5 in 1 Blank cases and use for shot loads in my .44-40, .44 Magnum, .45 Colt etc.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/418223/starline-reloading-brass-5-in-1-blank-bulk-packaged

Website Review From West Virginia

Verified Buyer

The Starline 5 in 1 Blank cases work well to assemble handgun shotshells useable in the .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .38-40, .44-40 and .45 Colt revolvers. Powder charges must be kept mild due to the enlarged flash hole. I use 5 grains of Alliant Bullseye or 6 grains of WST or 231 and a Winchester Large Pistol primer. A Buffalo Arms .45 card wad must be inserted over the powder charge, first inserting the card sideways with tweezers, pushing it about halfway into the case, before rotating it to bridge across the interior case wall and then aligning and pressing it down against the powder using a 3/8" dowel. Next a Federal 410SC shot cup is inserted firmly against the card, seated with the dowel and its protruding wad fingers trimmed off with a sharp knife. It is absolutely necessary to use the .45 card under the plastic shot cup because it is not of sufficient diameter to prevent powder from otherwise leaking around it, which will cause bloopers. Load about 1/3 oz. of fine shot not larger than 7-1/2, to maintain adequate pellet count, within 1/8" of the case mouth. Insert a .38 cal. Buffalo Arms card wad over the shot and then crimp the shell using either a .44 Long Shot, .45 ACP Shot or Lee .308 Winchester seating die which has been shortened by 1" and a blank RCBS sizer-lubricator top punch positioned and adjusted in the seating stem collar to hold the top card at the mid point of the die shoulder, while the case mouth is bumped against the shoulder to form a nice, professional looking crimp. Waterproof the shell by painting the top wad with clear urethane or varnish. These produce rabbit and grouse killing patterns patterns at 20 feet with No.8s and burn rattlers to "snakeburgers" at 15 feet. More effective than the Speer factory shot and useable in a variety of guns. I pack 20 of these in each vehicle or aircraft survival kit.

5 in 1 Revolver and Rifle Shot25 foot pattern from Marlin 1894S .44 rifle

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Bottom Line Yes, I would recommend to a friend

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[j4570]

PTG makes die blanks with pilot holes for about $20.

Choose a hole size to start and it’s less work on the lathe but cost more than a bolt of course.


I bought some 445 super mag brass to try this. Never got to it yet

[mdi]

How are you sizing the brass initially. If you are running the newly modified brass through your 44 Mag sizing die?

[scb]

fwiw. A number of years ago I sent 3 carbide sizing dies back to RCBS. 45acp 44 mag 38/357. They put a larger radius on the mouth of the dies. I had this done to make them easier to use on a progressive (RCBS AmmoMaster) loader. With the larger radius alignment is not as critical. Perhaps this might help your 41 die.

[str8wal]

I use a Lee 44 magnum sizer to neck down 460 Smith brass for my 45 Colt revolver shot loads so the Lee 41 magnum sizer might have a proper radius for your 44 magnum shot loads.