M&P vs. Glock...

[Arisaka99]

First, I know its apples to oranges here, but bear with me.

I have been looking at pistols for OC and HD that will also work to conceal fairly easily once I get a CHP. I grew up around Glocks, so I know and trust them. I really like the G23 because it is compact, but big enough I can get my big paws on it. The M&P also is the same size, but is a LOT more ergonomic and feels really nice in my hand. They also make a .45 compact and Glock doesn't. The Glock doesn't feel bad in my hand, but it's a Glock.. nuff said.

So from you guys that have, or have shot both, what would you recommend? I really like .40S&W, but also like .45ACP. So I'm at a crossroads. I've never shot the M&P compact, but I've shot a full size 9mm.

[Petrol & Powder]

Here goes, this will be fun.......
The Glock 19 / 23 is a great pistol in terms of size, weight and capacity. They are some of my all time favorite working class pistols. Big enough to hold onto, small enough to easily carry and plenty of capacity. Outside of a revolver, the G19 is the gun I recommend the most for an all-around handgun.

Now for the issue that will bring the storm.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: if you're going to select a polymer framed, striker-fired, high capacity, semi-auto pistol with a square section slide that locks to the barrel via the square cut ejection port; BUY A GLOCK!
Everything else that fits that criteria is a Glock knock-off, sorry just how I see it.
The Glock is proven, in fact it is very well proven. It works!

The Springfields, S&W's and all of the other polymer framed striker fired pistols are generally OK but they are no better than a Glock. Let the flaming begin but that is how I feel.

There are folks that just cannot bring themselves to buy a pistol from Austria and that's fine. There are companies to fill that void.

[williamwaco]

M&P is head and shoulders above the Glock.

[Petrol & Powder]

The Glock is ugly, utilitarian, ubiquitous and it works.

The M&P has S&W stamped on the side and is equally utilitarian and ugly. :shock:

[Petrol & Powder]

M&P is head and shoulders above the Glock.

I'll bite, How is it better?

[Tenbender]

Glock hands down. Smith is not the quality it was 5 or 10 years ago.

[Bigslug]

I'm an armorer, so more moving parts typically equals less interest: Glock for me.

[Rick Hodges]

I carried the Glock on duty for some 9 yrs. It does not point naturally for me. The myth of Glock reliability was proven to me during the departments transition training. I have never seen so many fail to feed, fail to eject, fail to fires as with the Glocks. Before all you fan boys jump in and talk about the weak wristing (some of it is warranted) Glock came in with three different magazines before they got some that functioned well and all sorts of replacement parts, new springs etc. The S&W points better and functions just as well. I still own the Glock, but I carry a S&W.

[Petrol & Powder]

As for which gun fits your hand the best, that's an individual choice. As to the basic design, I'm with bigslug - simple is good.
There just isn't that much difference between polymer framed, striker fired pistols beyond complexity and national origin.

[bob208]

I have shot some glocks no s&w's. the glocks have a terrible trigger and do not point well for me. so I will just keep my browning hi-power.

[Petrol & Powder]

not fair bob208, we're bashing Glocks and other polymer workhorses, you can't introduce a fine gun like a Hi-power to the street brawl :bigsmyl2:

[texasbilly]

I liked the feel of the M&P. It felt good in my hand, had good balance, and seemed to point well. When I final got it to the range, I found that the trigger was the worst I had ever felt in my entire shooting career. It felt like two pieces of rough plastic grinding together. I had the trigger worked on, but I lost faith in the gun. I sold it, and will never go back. On the other hand, I always liked the accuracy and reliability of my Glock. I would buy one any day over the M&P.

[khmer6]

Whatever feels best in your hands and natural point of aim. But for me it's Glock. Never did use to like them but when looking for a 10mm Glock was the only reliable gun out there without wanting an arm and a leg. I have then converted. The big frame glocks fit nicely in my hands. And I have pretty small hands.

[lefty o]

whatever fits and points best for you. i personally ignore the pride in ownership folks, sorry!!!

[seagiant]

Hi,
The M&P hands down! Sold all my Glocks!

[Catshooter]

The Glock beats the snot out of everything else in one category at least: parts price and availability.

If you want to be able to keep it running for the rest of your life for sure, you need parts.



Cat

[NavyVet1959]

If you are going with a Glock, get the 10mm -- G20 or G29. You can shoot .40SW in them without a barrel change if you so desire and aftermarket barrels are cheap if you want some other caliber. If you reload, you can reload .40SW brass to 10mm OAL and power. I just don't see a reason to buy any Glock other than a 10mm one. Glock's .45 compact is the G30.

I don't like the plastic striker fired handguns, but I do have the G29 and G20 and a G21 converted to a .45 SUPER +P+ (.460 Rowland equivalent). Other than that, I have no use for Glocks. They might be dependable, but I just do not like all that plastic and it's crappy trigger. If you spend a lot of money on mods for the Glock, you can *approach* the trigger that a low end M1911 has from the factory. If you get a Glock, get a hard plastic holster for it since that split trigger that they call a "safety" is NOT. A safety prevents the gun from going bang if you inadvertently pull the trigger (either by putting your finger in there or getting it caught on something). The Glock has no such safety.

http://cdn1.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd_images/bgprod/GUN-51918_A.jpg

[lefty o]

a firearms safety is between your ears, any so called mechanical safety is subject to failure. that little tab in the glock trigger is actually a drop safety to keep inertia from firing the gun and shooting you in the butt if its dropped, it was never intended to protect you from shooting yourself with your own gun. i dont mind the small framed glocks, but absolutely detest the large framed glocks. i dont have dainty hands either. like i mentioned earlier, go with what fits and works for you. listening to other peoples " i own this, and its the greatest because i own one" lol , you may as well stick your head in the sand.

[Duster340]

I ended up getting an MP40 after handling a variety of other pistols including glocks. Reason being it just felt and pointed better for me. That said, I don't think you could go wrong with either.

Look forward to seeing what you end up going with.

[garym1a2]

If looking for a compact, the Glock30s is smaller than the G19/23. It's just a little fatter in the grip.

[Petrol & Powder]

.................. listening to other peoples " i own this, and its the greatest because i own one" lol , you may as well stick your head in the sand.

/\ Very true !!!!

Self validation is very common. I purchased X and therefore X must be the best. You should confirm my decision to buy X by buying X also. Beware of people seeking confirmation of their own decisions.

Now that doesn't mean X is bad, in fact X may be excellent; it's just means that X isn't necessarily good just because someone else owns one.

[Love Life]

Glock has a compact 45. The Glock 36. It is a single stack 45 that conceals well, but has a 7 rd capacity. Might as well carry a Colt Commander.

Now the Glock 30S is a fine firearm for blasting at the range and concealed carry. Give it a look. It is my favorite of the 45 ACP line up.

[Lloyd Smale]

I have had a number of glocks, still have three and there great guns. Last year I bought a m&p. I really love it. Its every bit as reliable (at least mine is) shoots cast better then any of my glocks and eliminates one of the biggest pitfalls to me in the glock design. Anyone that grew up on a 1911 or about any other pistol will find they don't point naturaly. Maybe if you started shooting on a glock it would be natural but it sure isn't for me. Its why even today when I carry its a 1911. The controls and the pointing are automatic. The m&p points just as naturaly and has the controls in the same place. It makes enough of difference to me that I would actually carry it for self defense.

[FergusonTO35]

In factory stock form with no mods whatsoever I think the M&P is the way to go. The finger bumps on the front strap of the Glock dig into my fingers and I can't deal with the stock trigger pull, it's just terrible. Also I have never been able to shoot the original Glock barrel with much accuracy with any sort of ammo, boolits, plated, or FMJ. Minute of bad guy and that's about it, I think the rifling twist is way too fast. Finally the blocky fixed rear sight is hard to adjust or remove unless you have the proper tool and it doesn't work for my eyes. Every Glock I have ever fired with the original sight shoots high. The stock form M&P addresses all those complaints, at least for me.

That being said I own a Glock 19 and 26 and like them very much. The reason is that I modified them to my taste, something that can easily be done with a Glock. I sanded the annoying finger bumps down to gently rolling hills and and textured them. Installed Ghost 3.5 connectors and gave the internals a good .25 cent trigger job. Installed Storm Lake 1:16 twist barrels and OEM adjustable rear sights. Now my Glocks are shooting great and I'm very pleased with them. The only gun I would trade one of them for would be a new Browning Hi-Power Mk. III.

Parts availability and choices for customization are a huge consideration for me when buying any gun. There are some very good guns out there that have few or no options in this regard, such as the Ruger centerfire autos of which I have had a few. As much as I liked the P95 and SR9c I used to have I was pretty much stuck with them in factory form so they got replaced by the Glocks.

[Love Life]

"Doesn't point naturally" is a non-issue to me. That is why I practice with my firearms. I can take any of the handguns I own and shoot well with them. From 1911s to Glocks to S&W revolvers and even a Webley.

Having shot both the M&P and the Glock, I say pick your poison based off of which one best fits your needs. They'll both be plaskit and they'll both go bang.

[Petrol & Powder]

I can shoot 1911's just fine but I'm a heretic that rejects the grip angle argument of the 1911. I've never felt the grip angle of the 1911 is perfect or even remotely correct. However, people are different and what works for some doesn't work for others.
The grip angle of my H&K P7 or Ruger Mark II is far better for me. The same is true for the Glocks...for me. YMMV.
As for plastic frames and striker fired double stacks, I want as little complexity as possible and that equates to Glock.

[scattershot]

I have both, and I have made the statement before that the M&P is what the Glock should have been all along. It is basically a Glock, after all, with better ergonomics. The .45c Smith is becoming my favorite handgun.

[NavyVet1959]

You see a lot of Kool-aid drinkers in the Glock user base. You do not seem to see that sort of thing with the M&P line. Glocks are reliable and they work, but at best, they could be described as utilitarian. Not that different than other plastic guns in that respect. For what is mostly a piece of injection molded plastic, they are overpriced. They might be relatively cheap compared to some all metal firearm, but they're still overpriced. Realistically, they are a $200 firearm that is being sold for $600. No one is ever going to declare that a Glock is a piece of machinist art though.

If the .45 ACP is not enough for you, the Glock 21 or 30 can easily be converted to .45 SUPER (with just a spring change), .45 SUPER +P+ (with a 24 lb spring change and a compensator), or .460 Rowland (with a 24 lb spring change, compensator, .460 Rowland barrel, and .460 Rowland brass). You won't even have to change your mags.

Lone Wolf makes affordable aftermarket barrels for the Glocks.

S&W has models with and without the thumb safety. That's a definite advantage to the S&Ws in my opinion.

[Rhou45]

If you are going with a Glock, get the 10mm -- G20 or G29. You can shoot .40SW in them without a barrel change if you so desire and aftermarket barrels are cheap if you want some other caliber.

NavyVet, Did you mean to say with a barrel change, since they headspace on the case mouth?

As for me, I have the G20 and a M&P 40SW. I have a KKM 40SW barrel for the G20, it is a simple drop in change that takes less than a minute. It really makes it easier to use the G20 when ammo shortages come around, or when I want to have an extended range session.

I like both and do not have a preference of one over the other. Both are very reliable as long as they are clean. After the first 100 so so rounds both start showing signs of fowling by not fully locking up on follow up shots. A quick wipe down and they are back to business. The M&P more so than the G20. I do feel spring upgrades are in their future, and so far Glock seems easier to find parts for. The G20 is a larger gripped frame, which does not bother me, but I have seen others that had an issue maintaining a proper grip with the pistol.

My advice on choosig between the Glock and the M&P, go to a gun range that has rentals and fire both. Choose the one that YOU shoot best, fits your hands best, and appeals to you the most. It is your gun.

[NavyVet1959]

NavyVet, Did you mean to say with a barrel change, since they headspace on the case mouth?

Well *some* people will claim that you need to do a barrel change, but many of us have found that it really is not necessary for the Glocks. The Glock extractor contacts more of the case, so you are in reality headspacing on the extractor, not the case mouth. If it's a major concern for you, spend an extra $110 and get a Lone Wolf .40SW barrel instead. And if you want it even more flexible, then send that barrel off to DougGuy and have him increase the leade / throat so that it could handle .40SW rounds loaded to 10mm OAL. That would allow you to headspace off the case mouth if you so desired while also being able to shoot either standard .40SW ammo or .40SW brass loaded to 10mm OAL and pressure.

http://i57.tinypic.com/w1e5c5.jpg

[Petrol & Powder]

I'm not a huge Glock fan but they work and they keep working. I didn't like Glocks for years but the more I played with them the more they grew on me. No Kool-aid required. I like utilitrian in a gun like that, it's not supposed to be a work of art, it's supposed to be a functioning tool. I have guns that are far better looking and a few that shoot smaller groups. If the M&P fits you better then great. I still fail to see the difference in one striker fired polymer wonder vs. another; beyond complexity.

[Rhou45]

Navyvet,

Thanks for the clarification. I choose to err on the safe side and ordered the extra barrel in 40SW a few years ago. Interesting concept on the toic though.

Ralph

[NavyVet1959]

Having shot both the M&P and the Glock, I say pick your poison based off of which one best fits your needs. They'll both be plaskit and they'll both go bang.

Plastic guns have no soul... :)

http://i60.tinypic.com/a0bgx.jpg

[Love Life]

Plastic guns don't need soul. They bring the ruckus.

[NavyVet1959]

Navyvet,

Thanks for the clarification. I choose to err on the safe side and ordered the extra barrel in 40SW a few years ago. Interesting concept on the toic though.


I've even tried it with a RIA 10mm. Although it works, I am not sure about the strength of the extractor with respect to longevity. I have a good supply of 10mm brass, so it's not an issue which one I ultimately choose to load to 10mm OAL and pressures, but for someone relying on range pickup, being able to shoot .40SW brass at 10mm OAL and pressure would be a definite advantage.

Now, on a side note, Johnny Rowland states that with his .460 Rowland conversion, you can still shoot .45 ACP and .45 SUPER in the .460 Rowland barrel. Since the .460 Rowland brass is 1/16" longer than the .45 ACP/SUPER brass, that means that he is also relying on the cartridge to headspace on the extractor. He states this for the M1911 .460 Rowland conversion also, so that tends to make me not that concerned with shooting .40SW or .40SW brass loaded to 10mm OAL and pressure in the M1911 10mm handguns. The .40SW brass is 0.850" in length. The 10mm brass is 0.992" in length. That's a difference of 0.142". The 1/16" on the .460 Rowland vs .45 ACP/SUPER is 0.0625". I suspect that if there was a problem with this, it would show up with the .460 Rowland conversions.

[Tackleberry41]

Its hard to compare the M&P I have to a glock. I have a G23, and a M&P shield. The not quite single stack changes everything so is apples and oranges. I am not so fond of the Glock grip angle. All my other guns are pretty much the same, then theres the Glock, different for the sake of being different. I put a beavertail add on grip on mine so its alot like other pistols in the way it points. Neither the Glock or Shield has had an issue. It does seem like you can do more with the M&P trigger the way they did it vs the Glock. And the shield is less brick like.

[Lloyd Smale]

I can shoot 1911's just fine but I'm a heretic that rejects the grip angle argument of the 1911. I've never felt the grip angle of the 1911 is perfect or even remotely correct. However, people are different and what works for some doesn't work for others.
The grip angle of my H&K P7 or Ruger Mark II is far better for me. The same is true for the Glocks...for me. YMMV.
As for plastic frames and striker fired double stacks, I want as little complexity as possible and that equates to Glock.


"Doesn't point naturally" is a non-issue to me. That is why I practice with my firearms. I can take any of the handguns I own and shoot well with them. From 1911s to Glocks to S&W revolvers and even a Webley.

Having shot both the M&P and the Glock, I say pick your poison based off of which one best fits your needs. They'll both be plaskit and they'll both go bang.Maybe the 1911 grip angle isn't perfect but its whats been in my hand for over 30 years and feels like it belongs there. As to practice overcoming it I will buy that to a point. But nothing will ever feel and work like a 1911 for me and if im in a bad situation id rather have a gun in my hand that's been there for 30 years then one that ive practiced with a couple years.

[375supermag]

Hi...

I just recently bought my first polymer pistol.
I was looking for something different, so I decided on a polymer-framed pistol something I had never owned in .40S&W, a cartridge I had no previous experience with.

I handled quite a few different handguns, Glocks, Springfield, S&W, etc.

Pointability and feel led me to buy a S&W M&P in .40S&W. I liked the way it feels in my hand and the sights seemed to line up quite well. It may never be as comfortable and trusted as my 1911s in .45ACP, but the first 100 rounds down the barrel have proved that it is an accurate handgun.

I liked it much better than the Glock, it fit my big hands better and sighted much more naturally.
Another selling point to me was the apparent ease of acquiring a drop-in barrel in 9mm and .357Sig for the M&P at a very reasonable cost. Once I get more familiar with the M&P, I may well buy an naftermarket .357Sig barrel. Another new cartridge for me and another new reloading opportunity.

I may yet buy a 10mm polymer-framed pistol. If I do, my gut feeling is that barring something new appearing, that handgun will probably be a Glock, unless I go with a different platform altogether.

[khmer6]

Pretty much why I started my affection again with Glocks. The 10mm!!! Having both the g29 and g20 there's no other reason for another glock!! Ok ok maybe a g21 for some bigger conversions. Plus that 1911 is sweet!! My 10mm 1911 like that one shoots stacked holea

If you are going with a Glock, get the 10mm -- G20 or G29. You can shoot .40SW in them without a barrel change if you so desire and aftermarket barrels are cheap if you want some other caliber. If you reload, you can reload .40SW brass to 10mm OAL and power. I just don't see a reason to buy any Glock other than a 10mm one. Glock's .45 compact is the G30.

I don't like the plastic striker fired handguns, but I do have the G29 and G20 and a G21 converted to a .45 SUPER +P+ (.460 Rowland equivalent). Other than that, I have no use for Glocks. They might be dependable, but I just do not like all that plastic and it's crappy trigger. If you spend a lot of money on mods for the Glock, you can *approach* the trigger that a low end M1911 has from the factory. If you get a Glock, get a hard plastic holster for it since that split trigger that they call a "safety" is NOT. A safety prevents the gun from going bang if you inadvertently pull the trigger (either by putting your finger in there or getting it caught on something). The Glock has no such safety.

http://cdn1.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd_images/bgprod/GUN-51918_A.jpg

[Love Life]

Maybe the 1911 grip angle isn't perfect but its whats been in my hand for over 30 years and feels like it belongs there. As to practice overcoming it I will buy that to a point. But nothing will ever feel and work like a 1911 for me and if im in a bad situation id rather have a gun in my hand that's been there for 30 years then one that ive practiced with a couple years.

I understand, and I'm not trying to sell you on another gun. Use what is most comfortable for you.

This thread is about Glock VS M&P, not the 1911.

To the OP, I'd go to a range that rents both and shoot a couple boxes of ammo through each one. There are good, compact models from both makers in all their calibers.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

Hi,
The M&P hands down! Sold all my Glocks!


not entirely sure that is fair you have an apex trigger in that m&p

but for the original poster here goes I am in the same market for my next gun , but with a little different twist I am looking for a production class competition gun that can run IDPA, USPSA and mostly action pistol league but on a budget

so I am down to a few guns and been doing my research trying other people guns at league I tried one competitors trigger this week and it is definitly down in the range I can work with on a glock short , crisp , so what did he do he showed me all the parts he polished to a mirror Finnish with jewelers rouge

I came home and took my SW40F if you done't recall this is the gun that glock sued S&W over back in the 90s because they basically copied the slide , and polished the spots , no I haven't got a fancy trigger scale but I have wights on a length of cord that I attach to the trigger I was able to take a trigger that broke at more than 12 1/2 poiunds and I am down to about 8 it is much smoother much crisper than it was , I am ready to order the spring kit to help a bit more , but I have also learbed to shoot the heavier trigger fairly well
while this doesn't apply to you exactly it lets you know that an hour or so some felt wheels and a 5 dollar stick or jewelers rouge (that will be more than I need for 100 trigger jobs )from the hardware store can make a real difference in either gun they are very similar

when he armorer, commented fewer moving parts , I can totally understand thre are about 6 fewer parts to do the same thing

part of that is that glock never intended for their to be a manual safety or a magazine disconnect , I dislike the magazine disconnect and would either buy a smith with out it or remove it right away (this mostly has to do with pistol competition , where when completed with a stage, you drop your mag, clear the chamber and drop the hammer/striker on the empty chamber while pointed at the backstop/berm to show your clear with no doubt )

so the more moving parts and little bit harder full break down to all components and the need for slave pins to put the trigger back in a s&w , you may need these on a glock but you really need them on the smith I would venture the smith would take 3-5 minutes longer to reassemble completely than the glock thats about 6 more parts and as I understand it on the M&P you have to drive out the rear sight to get at the firing pin block if I recall correctly

where it seems to make a real difference is that if your going to drop your pistol in the creek every week go glock you will spend a bunch less time pulling it apart and putting it together

but if you clean it maybe monthly or less by field stripping and wiping it down with a rag lubing the lube points , pull a bore snake through the barrel and put it back together it will make little difference

what other reasons for one over the other , well the S&W m&p does just feel better for a lot of people it may or may not for you try it , there is a lot to this generally people shoot what feels right with less training and practice

magazines , parts , holsters , the Glock is still ahead of the S&W on this but the M&P is made a lot of progress in a short time and I see it getting better every day this will have a bunch to do with how much you want to customize your S&W , if box stock maybe a trigger polish or apex 3.5 trigger and that is al you will every need not a huge point

but if you want to walk into any store and pick up a mag and a holster on your way someplace glock still has it


feel and fit in your hand - this is not a small thing - really the biggest for most people

how often you plan to drop it in the creek

holsters , aftermarket parts , and accessories

cost , the M&P can be had for about a hundred less than the glock

but the M&P mags tend to cost about 9 dollars each more than glock mags so if you are going to buy a bunch of mags some is made up

a few other parts if you were to buy them would make up a few more dollars


the only easy to make statement is IF you feel the need for an external safety Lever - the M&P is the gun for you
IF you feel you need ambidexrous slide release M&P is the gun for you

other than that the two are running neck in neck in the pistol competition divisions the M&P was built to compete directly against the Glock

feel them both try them both that is more likely what will make your mind up

[Petrol & Powder]

............


To the OP, I'd go to a range that rents both and shoot a couple boxes of ammo through each one. There are good, compact models from both makers in all their calibers.

THAT'S GOOD ADVICE and when you get done shooting the Glock and S&W.....go buy the Glock :bigsmyl2::rolleyes: because that's all that M&P is anyway! [smilie=s:

[NavyVet1959]

This thread is about Glock VS M&P, not the 1911.

But the OP mentioned the .45 ACP and no discussion of the .45 ACP is complete without mentioning the M1911. The S&W and Glock are (relatively) inexpensive plastic firearms. People buy them because they do not want to spend the money on a more expensive firearm. I fully understand about saving money, but there are some well made metal firearms that are around that same price.

Just going by the current prices over at Bud's Gun Shop:
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/21_876/Handguns/Rock+Island+Armory

I see the RIA M1911 models listed there from around $400-500 in 9mm and .45 ACP. They also have one in .38 SUPER.

The thing is, these days, with modern CNC machinery, there's no reason that a company cannot produce a well made product when they are copying a known proven design like the M1911. It's not like in the old days when everything had to be hand fit and you could not interchange parts between two firearms of the same manufacturer and model.

[Love Life]

It is 100% possible to have a discussion concerning the M&P VS Glock in a thread titled "M&P VS Glock" without dragging the 1911 into it.

Purchasing a Glock or M&P over a 1911 isn't always about price.

[NavyVet1959]

It is 100% possible to have a discussion concerning the M&P VS Glock in a thread titled "M&P VS Glock" without dragging the 1911 into it.


Perhaps it is theoretically possible, but I've never seen it happen. Sooner or later, someone mentions the Glock's crappy trigger and then someone will mention the M1911. Like it or not, the M1911 is the standard by which other semi-autos are compared, especially with respect to their trigger.


Purchasing a Glock or M&P over a 1911 isn't always about price.

Yeah, sometimes it's just because you like to drink the plastic Kool-aid. :)

I own a couple of Glocks, but it was only because there were no steel handguns that I could find at that time that would serve their intended purpose at that price point. The G29 gives me a subcompact 10mm that can also take full size mags. The G20 gave me a full size high capacity 10mm as a backup while hog hunting. The G21 was a really good deal and was the perfect candidate for a .45 SUPER +P+ conversion (https://sites.google.com/site/navyvet1959/miscellaneous/glock-21-45-super-p-conversion).

https://e3aaceb9-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/navyvet1959/miscellaneous/glock-handguns/glock-21-45-super-%2Bp%2B-320.jpg?attachauth=ANoY7cqUBfJHta8d_NXySj0MqLReM5v IM0X4GQJjUOUF0Ji8LYbkngn8iaxpP3bWDhW4EB2j01Gds_ctI sXF9N8n5u1Oa2rKvJNiiVCef2I6Y7LdL913-YTkFc3YrtVxM-Q69NiJovlbD1CU_-57SNLttfYFDe5gOqDEBeBaM3T8YGkdD_PILdvcFjv6OCp2pYog 2bEs7KWTdyA3N-1cQ6DxVWZeCCACAXWEYoilIc5Q1BLMUIj0MMF2oI0VZZDGhUb6 2Z9wjVE3q_v6tDp2bue2ytLOYvGm6A%3D%3D&attredirects=0

[Love Life]

It has nothing to do with Kool-aid as you put it. Glocks are dang fine firearms that have earned their place in a shooter's battery, whether you accept it or not.

If you can't stick to the discussion at hand, and provide relevant information then go start a Glock VS 1911 thread and we can all slug it out there and I'll post pictures of a 1911 Government model sandwiched between 2 glocks with a side of Commander model.

[Lefty Red]

Hmmmm,

It would depend on the caliber:
9mm-GLock 26,19, or 17
40S&W-S&W MP
45ACP-Glock 21 or 30

Jerry

[Petrol & Powder]

The 1911 was a great pistol in its day and remains a viable tool however there are some of us that have moved on and some that have arrested development. [smilie=s:

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I could definitely see going 2011 that brings the 1911 trigger with the much higher capacity , however , it is some what unpractical for competition with the classes as they stand in uspsa and idpa as they have built the rules for production class to exclude all single action only 1911 style autos so you have to run limited

I know the op was not asking about competition , but it is where many of these guns are getting the best work out

[freebullet]

I have nothing against glocks, they are proven. The only reason I don't have 1 or more is the grip angle. When I pick one up it naturally points up to high. I never felt I had to compromise on that because there are other quality guns that point natural for me.

The ergonomics of the m&p had me at the first hold. It was a used 9mm & came home for a song. It was accurate enough and plenty reliable. They got the stock perfect. The reason it was traded away is the trigger. I just plain never liked it. I won't mod a carry gun trigger, so it couldn't stick around after I tried the xd.

The xd is not a real attractive gun. For me it picks up where the glock and m&p let me down. That would be my first choice in Tupperware, Second would be the m&p, then glock based on owning and shooting them all. Ymmv

133939

133940

The xd is the one that worked best for me.

[Lloyd Smale]

I mentioned the 1911 to make the point that the glock doesn't point naturaly for me and the m&p is a lot more natural pointing. As to not dragging in 1911s. This wasn't your post and even if it was you don't have a say in what someone else decides to post in it. that is the moderators job.
It is 100% possible to have a discussion concerning the M&P VS Glock in a thread titled "M&P VS Glock" without dragging the 1911 into it.

Purchasing a Glock or M&P over a 1911 isn't always about price.

[Petrol & Powder]

Oh, poking at the bear is soooooo much fun.

[Love Life]

I mentioned the 1911 to make the point that the glock doesn't point naturaly for me and the m&p is a lot more natural pointing. As to not dragging in 1911s. This wasn't your post and even if it was you don't have a say in what someone else decides to post in it. that is the moderators job.

Cool. Well, in that case I'd recommend a S&W model 28 or a Colt New Service.

[Piedmont]

I was at a friend's place this week and was able to fondle the following .45s: XDM, CZ97, Glock M41, and M&P full size. My hands are on the small side of average. The M&P felt the best of the bunch because it was contoured to fit a hand. The XDM was a close second. The other two I would never purchase just because of how they felt.

The grip angle is also a big deal with me having spent my formative years with a 1911 and all but the Glock had a grip angle that was OK.

[FergusonTO35]

Around here the M&P other than the Shield is around $560.00. Generation 4 Glocks with 3 mags are $530.00, gen. 3's are $480-500.00. So if you're talking new guns the Glock will save you money up front, not to mention parts and mags are much more cheap and easy to find.

I fired my Glock 19 and 26 today. They aren't the best looking, the best feeling, or the best trigger pull. But they are more accurate than I am and always go bang so I guess I'll keep 'em around.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I was almost going to comment on this, but everybody beat me to it. :shock:

Randy

[Lloyd Smale]

go for it. Its a free country.
Cool. Well, in that case I'd recommend a S&W model 28 or a Colt New Service.

[M-Tecs]

The 1911 was a great pistol in its day and remains a viable tool however there are some of us that have moved on and some that have arrested development. [smilie=s:

That would be me. I can have pretty much any handgun I want. For targets, fun or saving my bacon the 1911 is my first choice. For hunting or long range the big revolvers or single shots win out.

For the OP's question the current S&W warranty and customers service sucks so bad I don't recommend anyone purchase the current production S&W's.

[robertbank]

An old debate with no resolve. Guys who own Glocks love um, so too M&P owners. I have been going south to the WA State IDPA match now for the past eight years as a Safety Officer. The shoot averages about 140 shooters each year. In that time only two guns have failed shoot problem free on stages I have run. Glocks and 1911's. Aside from ammo, the most frequent problems are failure to feeds most likely due to limp wristing. If memory serves me correctly one Glock had an extractor break. Nationally, at the US Nationals Glocks and M&P's dominated the sport with wins in all three pistol divisions and by numbers of entries. The Gocks have a slight edge in numbers.
My assessment if you like Glocks buy one. If you don't care for the ergonomics buy the M&P. The latest versions have a number of improvements over the first versions of the gun. I have both. S&W finally went to a 1 - 10 twist barrel for their 9MM guns which has improved the accuracy of the guns - I bought a new factory 1 - 10 twist barrel and have experienced the improvement.

Overall the M&P has some improvements over the Glock. A lighter slide reduces the effect of limp wristing. The M&P has the front and rear slide rails connected as a one piece unit which stiffens the frame. Glock has them as separate parts. The M&P comes with better sights. The Glock now has better and less expensive mags.

Both go bang when you pull the trigger most of the time. They are mechanical and they both break parts. I had a striker break on my M&P during a match. It was an early striker that was know to break. Smith had already corrected the problem but I had not replaced the striker with the newer version. Like Glock the M&P continues to evolve. If you like striker fired guns and want one for home and personal defense and also playing IPSC/IDPA both will do. I doubt their is a nickle deference in overall performance. Buy the one you like to shoot the best. Both employ American workers to manufacture the gun and that can be important for some.

Take care

Bob

[robertbank]

I could definitely see going 2011 that brings the 1911 trigger with the much higher capacity , however , it is some what unpractical for competition with the classes as they stand in uspsa and idpa as they have built the rules for production class to exclude all single action only 1911 style autos so you have to run limited

I know the op was not asking about competition , but it is where many of these guns are getting the best work out

CDP Divison in IDPA was made for 1911's and the 45acp cartridge, period! The fact that the M&P and Glock pistols have won the National title in this division is a testament to both the shooters and the platforms they used. I doubt anyone in 1995 anticipated the polymer guns would ever be about to compete with the 1911. Had they, they might limited the division to SA guns.

Take care

Bob

[Love Life]

I limp wristed Cwheel's compact 45. I am ashamed.

[NavyVet1959]

Some things on Glocks are more inexpensive, some are not. For example, a Glock firing pin starts out at about $40 at Midway whereas a M1911 one starts out at around $15. One for an AR starts out around $5.

[garym1a2]

These fireing pins do wear out also, I replaced mine once when I started getting light strikes and not firing issues. Turned out the pin was worn enough to be shorter than the new one.

Springs also wear out, I have a trigger return spring break (aftermarket) in a USPSA match last year. The G22 was north of 10K rounds on it.

Some things on Glocks are more inexpensive, some are not. For example, a Glock firing pin starts out at about $40 at Midway whereas a M1911 one starts out at around $15. One for an AR starts out around $5.

[firewhenready7]

Well I own and have carried both the Glock 23 and the Shield in 40. I like both but I shoot better with the Shield and its easier to carry. But I also have reduced my capacity from 13+1 to 8+1.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

thanks Bob , I got confused I was reading USPSA http://www.rbgc.org/USPSA/USPSAgear.htm where the first rule of stock production class is no single action pistols

been reading a lot lately just getting started and comparing so that I can buy one gun that will compete in both games well as they interest me although I see a lot more uspsa events around me

[robertbank]

thanks Bob , I got confused I was reading USPSA http://www.rbgc.org/USPSA/USPSAgear.htm where the first rule of stock production class is no single action pistols

been reading a lot lately just getting started and comparing so that I can buy one gun that will compete in both games well as they interest me although I see a lot more uspsa events around me

If you want to be competitive and are by nature, go with the CZ Shadow. Get the basic Shadow. Write me a letter when you feel the gun isn't performing up to your skill level. The gun will do wonders in both USPSA/IPSC abd IDPA Production. The gun will outshoot both the Glock and the M&P off a rest any day of the week. I presently use both a CZ 75 Shadowline gun and an M&P Pro in Production. This year when I am not shooting my Ruger GP-100 in IDPA SSR I will go with the CZ for SSP Division. I am giving IPSC a pass due to a lower back that doesn't care for the sport anymore.

FYI IDPA SSP Division does not allow SA pistols either both it and USPSA Production Divsions are very similar. You will enjoy both. Good shooting. Remember if you are not having fun shooting IDPA and USPSA you are shooting then for the wrong reason.

Take Care

Bob

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

Bob , 1 of the 3 guns guns on my short list is the CZ-P09 the glock and he m&p are the other 2

the longer DA pull , well I am on the fence probably till I feel it

I shoot my old S&W M39 fairly well and I guess the DA pull doesn't bother me near as much as it used to , that very short light SA trigger sure is nice after the first squeeze

the shadow is nice nut a bit out of my price range I am going to have to play on a budget I can probably swing 5-600 thats why I have been looking at the M&P and Glock

[robertbank]

You should be able to get a CZ 75B for that price and still be competitive with the Glock & M&P. Replace the main spring (easy to do BTW) and you will have a very good trigger. The 75B will out shoot either of the other two guns off a rest as well. The gun is heavier than the polymer guns so you might not want the 75B for every day carry if that is a concern. Another best buy if you can find one is a CZ Phantum. The trigger will not feel as good out of the box but change the mainspring to a 13# one and it is not all that bad. Sa pull is very nice with the 13# spring. Certainly every bit as good as either the Glock or M&P. If you decide to go M&P then a lighter trigger return spring and changing out the USB will make a world of difference in the trigger pull. Frankly I can never remember a time when shooting either IPSC ( USPSA in Canada almost) or IDPA where I can remmebr how the trigger felt. In front of a TV yes feels smooth or gritty or what ever. In the middle of a stage on the clock ....I never notice the trigger. YMMV.

Good luck in your search.

Take care

Bob

[NavyVet1959]

I have a CZ-75 Compact and it is the only 9mm that is in the rotation of firearms that I carry. It just feels well made and I like it. It's about the same size as an Officer's Model M1911, so it conceals pretty nicely also.