New PID temp controller

[lar45]

Hello everybody.
I was talking with GoodSteel one day and the subject of using a PID to controll the temp of your casting pot came up. I did a search on here and saw what others have done.
I bought most of the parts on Ebay.
Here is my version.
Sorry if the pics are small.

133583
I need to clean up the wiring abit to make it neat and tidy, but I wanted to see if it would run, so I closed it up and plugged it in.
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I did the back this way so you could just plug the casting pot into the outlet on the left. It uses a computer style power cord for the power in and an ON/OFF switch just above it. The thermocouple gets hooked up to the terminal block.

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I had to play with the settings to get it to read out in *F and a higher temp range.
Now it holds it within about =- *5. It's supposed to learn your pot, so the range may tighten up abit once I've ran it for awhile.

[Mike W1]

Looks good! Which PID controller did you choose?

[LenH]

I just put one together and I wish I had one earlier than that. I have 2 probes, one for the casting pot and another for my electric smoker.
I was amazed at how the temp could swing by doing some of the ordinary things like putting sprues back in the pot when they tend to pile up.

[Yodogsandman]

Well, how do you like it? I found that I absolutely love mine! After casting tens of thousands of boolits, this is the best upgrade ever! I never figured I even needed a thermometer. I still don't! Hope you enjoy yours, too!

Real nice looking, clean, professional looking PID job. Well done!

[44man]

I am still trying to get some money up for one but I might need the well guy out, Getting tons of air in my water and have not found a leak yet.
I made a setup with a pressure gauge to put air in the line to see if there is a leak. Then I hope someone can hear it from 2' underground.
I already put a new pump and line from the pitless plus new wire and two reverse valves.
Unhappy home owner, that's me.

[Jeff Maney]

Nice job! Looks real good.

[Walter Laich]

I am still trying to get some money up for one but I might need the well guy out, Getting tons of air in my water and have not found a leak yet.
I made a setup with a pressure gauge to put air in the line to see if there is a leak. Then I hope someone can hear it from 2' underground.
I already put a new pump and line from the pitless plus new wire and two reverse valves.
Unhappy home owner, that's me.

It always stinks when life gets in the way of hobbies

[mrbill2]

Nice job. How big is the box you used to house all the components?

[lar45]

I used the Rex C-100, but I had to change some of the factory settings. It would only display in C and had a lower temp range. But once I worked my way through the horrible directions, it's up and running fine.
The box is 8x5 5/8 x 2.5

[TreeKiller]

I like this controller a lot easier than the REX C-100

tcqbn2006p
Dan

[Bryan527]

I built a PID based on information I found on this site. I tried it today and it works well. Having that kind of control over the alloy temp. is great. I didn't realize how much the temp. dropped when sprues and rejected bullets were put back in the pot.

[StrawHat]

I am not inclined toward building electrical things like this. Can a functioning PID be purchased off the shelf?

Kevin

[500MAG]

That's about the same way I did mine. Works great.

[kryogen]

I am not inclined toward building electrical things like this. Can a functioning PID be purchased off the shelf?

Kevin

Same for me, I bought one from frozone here, but apparently he got banned I don't know why. Nice unit, works fine.
No idea where they sell ready for use ones.
I didnt have time or knowledge to build one myself, and didnt have time to learn about it, I just wanted to buy and plug. I love it.

[hermans]

lar45
How did you get it to read degrees F? Mine only does degrees C, and my instructions is pretty worthless.

[hunter64]

Lar45: Nice job. You will start to find other uses for your PID not only your casting pot. I have a weber smokey mountain smoker that I use it to control a fan that blows into the holes on the bottom and keeps the smoker at the right temp. I was tired of putting stuff in the crock pot and having it to hot and drying out the meat , even on the low setting. I bought a long prob, put it in the pork chops in the crock pot and set the PID, problem solved. You can use it to control the temp of your soldering iron. With cheap thermocouples from china that cost 3 or 4 bucks the sky is the limit.

[lar45]

Here is a link to a much better manual for it.
http://www.rkcinst.co.jp/english/pdf_manual/imnzc22e1.pdf
you will need it for directions and the sheet that came with it as neither one has all the info on it. I will dig through mine and see what the exact steps were. Also as set from the factory, the temp range would not go high enough, but there is a setting for it also

[Mike W1]

I am not inclined toward building electrical things like this. Can a functioning PID be purchased off the shelf?

Kevin

These are some that build them.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?257435-PID-Temperature-Controller-s
http://jconninv.com/index.shtml
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?221976-CompeteCast-PID-temperature-controller
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?241440-PID-S-now-available
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=161
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?185-ButterNutZ

[hermans]

lar45

PM sent

[lar45]

Okay, to change the settings:
Press and hold the select button until the display flashes. Then press the select button to cycle through the options until you get to LCK and set it to 1000 then hold down the set button and the< button together for about 5 secs and the display should show COD =0000. then it will take you into the second set of parameters.
Pressing select will cycle you through the next parameters.
SL1 should be set to 0000 for a K type therocouple.
SL2 0000 = *C 0001 = *F
Then hold down the select button and the < button together for about 3 seconds until the display is back to the normal readout. This will save the changes. This should have your readout in *F now.

Mine came with a high temp readout set to 400*C which will give you an *F high of 752.
So to change the limits, go through the above steps to get to the COD value, now change it to 0001 and press select. T
his will get you to the third set of values.
Set the SLH(Set Limit HIgh) to whatever you want within the limits of the thermocouple. A K thermocouple will go to 2500*F, but we don't want our lead going that high, so you can set it to 1000 or whatever. I set mine to 1000.
Next comes the SLL(Set Limit Low), I set mine to 0000.
When you have your values set, press the select button with the < button until the display comes back to normal.
This should have your new values saved.

I had to dig through 3 different manuals to get all of the settings and values.
I hope the above is fairly clear. If not please tell me where it's confusing and I'll re-word it.

Glenn.

[lar45]

You are right about the other uses, the first thing it got used for was controlling a heatlamp to make an incubator. One of our turkeys gathered up 21 eggs, turkey, duck and chicken, to lay on. The first ones that hatched out got squished because she was trying to keep them all warm, so we took half of the eggs inside and let her sit on the rest. We now have 6 baby ducks and 2 turkeys living in a shower stall until it gets warm enough for them to go outside. The wife is having too much fun with them. The baby turkeys will sit on her shoulder and nuzzle in and go to sleep.

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[44man]

Thats great. We had a few turkeys and old Tommy would follow me to my range and gobble when i touched off a shot. He got so fat he would creak if I tried to lift him. He loved to be hugged and petted. His weight did him in, never figured what he ate beyond his food. Our hen got caught in a fence and died. I swear Tommy weighed 50# or more. He would follow me everywhere.
Had a chicken we called Henny Penny. I would call her and she would love to be picked up and I fed her all the Japanese beetles from the garden until she was stuffed.

[OuchHot!]

Turkeys in the shower....sounds like my college days

[lar45]

I've had a couple of questions about making some of these for sale. I'll check and see if I can get a better price on components by buying several at a time and come up with a price for them.
I will have all of the settings setup so it will just plug in and go without any hassle.
If you're interested, just PM me and I'll see how many I'll need to make. Or you can wait until I get a price figured out.

Glenn.

[MBTcustom]

Excellent work Glenn! I think a PID, is the best thing you can get right next to molds and a lead pot. Congratulations!

[44man]

I would be interested too. Depends on if I deplete my savings to get the well fixed.
Glenn is a good man, sending me lubes to test. A friend and I rate Glenn up to felix that we lost.
Much good work. I do not know how he finds the time.

[borg]

Quick question,
Do you need a terminal block to run things through?
The one in the OP has one and was wondering if I need to get one before my PID comes in.

[lar45]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/160982528914
133808

These are the ones that I used. You just drill a couple of holes under the block for the leads to go through. You can solder wires onto them, but be sure and cover them with some heat shrink tubing so they don't accidentally short out.
I'm sure that there are other ways to do it also.

[borg]

But are they necessary?

[lar45]

No, they are not. There are many ways to go about it. You could just drill a hole in the side of your box and pass the leads through to attatch to the PID, and use a rubber gromett in the hole to protect the wires.
For the Power, you could use an extension cord, cut it in half and wire it straight to the SSR. So you would have a cord going in and the other half coming out. These will all cut cost, and if done correctly should work fine.

[borg]

I splurged, I have the receptacles for the in, out and the thermal couple, also a rocker switch. Just need to know if I had to use a block.
Thanks
I am not an electrishon, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn last night.[smilie=l:

[Mal Paso]

Using a Terminal Block CAN be a problem. The thermocouple is the junction of 2 dissimilar metals. Other junctions of dissimilar metals ( wire to Terminal Block ) can throw the accuracy off. I used the plugs supplied by the thermocouple supplier or wired direct to the PID. You may not have a problem but a few here have. Depends on the interaction of the Thermocouple Wire with the metal of the T Block.

[edctexas]

Mal Paso is correct. The terminal strip will cause a variable error in your temp. It should be a small error as the room temp changes. Some of the PID units like Auberins can be "calibrated". You set the TC in Ice water (with a little salt thrown in) for zero, and TC into boiling water for 212F. There still will be a error if room temp changes, but it will not be too big.

You can buy TC connectors that have similar metals for each connection wire, and these don't cause any error. Most of these connectors are kind of dinky but do work.

The PID really looks professionally wired. You did a really nice job building it and I think you'll like using it. I probably wouldn't change the terminal strip now on your unit. Your PID will still be better than the dials on all but the new Lyman pot.

Ed C

[Mike W1]

Unless you put a panel and socket in for the TC it wires directly to the terminals on the PID. And my take is put one of them in so you can use the controller for other things like a lube heater for instance. Just get the ones made for this job.

[CBMC]

Out of curiosity did you have to bypass the internal relay in that c100? I have read that some have an internal relay that needs to be removed and have a jumper added. It seems to be a crapshoot whether you get one one with or without. I am waiting for mine from here. http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=300786172619&alt=web

[lar45]

Mine was setup to connect to the SSR.

[StrawHat]

These are some that build them.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?257435-PID-Temperature-Controller-s
http://jconninv.com/index.shtml
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?221976-CompeteCast-PID-temperature-controller
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?241440-PID-S-now-available
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=161
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?185-ButterNutZ

Mike W1,

Thank you, I have been casting for almost 5 decades without one but it is nice to know I can get one if I decide I need it. Electrical wiring and such is not in my bailiwick, so for me, having someone else build it is the only option.

Kevin

[Leadmelter]

I looked at this for my set-up. My RCBS pot works well for me even after 30 yrs.
I looked on evil-bay and most of units are from China and other countries. Not sure on their reliability.
How close will this hold the temp on my pot, smoker or other items? Do you have to be an electrical engineer to figure it out?
Leadmelter
MI

[retread]

Really nice professional looking set up. Great work. The only question I have, is there a heat sink under the SSR? If not you may have premature failure of the SSR due to heat degradation. I was concerned about heat build up so in addition to the heat sink I installed a small computer cooling fan. That was probably overkill!

[lar45]

It is mounted right on the bottom of the Aluminum box. My thought was that the box would have enough mass to dissapate enough heat to keep it safe. After 2 hours of running it, the bottom of the box was still comfortable to touch.

[Mal Paso]

It is mounted right on the bottom of the Aluminum box. My thought was that the box would have enough mass to dissapate enough heat to keep it safe. After 2 hours of running it, the bottom of the box was still comfortable to touch.

Probably fine. As I recall a 700 watt load produces 6 watts of heat in the SSR when it's on.

Nice job! I forgot to say that.

Thought I might save you some head scratching if the unit didn't read right.

[44man]

Fan is a good idea. I burned up a battery charger once, high end unit. They sent me parts and I put a fan in the case, no more problems.

[lar45]

Great suggestions. I'm always open for constructive critisisym.
Does anybody know of a source for the thermocouple connections?
It would probably save more space on the back pannel and make room for the circuit breaker(still not delivered)
I'm going to take some measurements with the TC hooked up to the terminal block and then the PID just to see how much difference it makes.

[OuchHot!]

I've used TC plug and sockets from Auber. They work fine.

[Mike W1]

Great suggestions. I'm always open for constructive critisisym.
Does anybody know of a source for the thermocouple connections?
It would probably save more space on the back pannel and make room for the circuit breaker(still not delivered)
I'm going to take some measurements with the TC hooked up to the terminal block and then the PID just to see how much difference it makes.

Believe these guys have the panels also
www.tcdirect.com

[Yodogsandman]

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_43&products_id=427

[lar45]

You were right about the terminal block giving a different readout.
I checked it at room temp and got 66*F on the terminal block and 64*F hooked to the PID
I tried some Ice water and got 32 at the terminal block and 30 at the PID
I then put it in a pot of boing water and got 212 at the terminal block, I didn't try it at the PID.
The PID has a spot to correct the values, but with the readings of 32 and 212 I decided to leave it alone.
I will get a set of the TC socket and plug to replace the terminal block.

It looks like I can put it together for $128 + shipping if anyone is still interested.
I will have them all setup so you can just plug and play.
Mine is hooked up to a Lee 20# pot and set at 750 is holding between 750 and 753.
It will take about a week to get all the parts in.

[Yodogsandman]

Just found another source for a thermocouple type K panel jack...

http://www.newark.com/newport-electronics/rmj-k-r-n/panel-jack-type-k-miniature-connector/dp/29C5176

[475AR]

You were right about the terminal block giving a different readout.
I checked it at room temp and got 66*F on the terminal block and 64*F hooked to the PID
I tried some Ice water and got 32 at the terminal block and 30 at the PID
I then put it in a pot of boing water and got 212 at the terminal block, I didn't try it at the PID.
The PID has a spot to correct the values, but with the readings of 32 and 212 I decided to leave it alone.
I will get a set of the TC socket and plug to replace the terminal block.

It looks like I can put it together for $128 + shipping if anyone is still interested.
I will have them all setup so you can just plug and play.
Mine is hooked up to a Lee 20# pot and set at 750 is holding between 750 and 753.
It will take about a week to get all the parts in.

I would like to get one. Pm inbound.

[Beagle333]

Just found another source for a thermocouple type K panel jack...

http://www.newark.com/newport-electronics/rmj-k-r-n/panel-jack-type-k-miniature-connector/dp/29C5176

Thanks!!! It's always great to know where to find those things if they don't kill you on shipping. My old source doesn't carry them anymore. :|

[Yodogsandman]

Thanks!!! It's always great to know where to find those things if they don't kill you on shipping. My old source doesn't carry them anymore. :|
I hear people make PID's from the shipping boxes and that's why they have to charge so much!:kidding:

Will need to find a good source for those boxes myself.

[Beagle333]

If they ship it in the right sized box.... hey, free PID case! ;):-D

[lar45]

Thanks for the link, I orderd some to replace my terminal block. The circuit breakers finally came in.
I got some casting in yesterday with a Fat30 mold. I tried to cast like GoodSteel's consistency applied post. I was very surprised when I went to sort them by weight. After culling, I had about 250 boolits left, most of them weighed in right at 188.3gns. There were a few that were about +- .4gns, so I put them all in the same bag. There were maybe 12 that were lighter, I'm just going to melt them back down. There were maybe 30 that were around 190gns, I'll probably melt them down also and just keep the 188.3s.