S&W 629 rifling

[Pablo 5959]

Hello all,
I bought a Smith 629 used last year and haven't had a lot of time to use it.
I run powder coat boolits and every time I clean it, I always had what I thought was a little leading.

Last Sunday I sat down and was determined to get the lead out.
So after normal cleaning. I could still see it.
I put a patch soaked with Hoppies#9 and left it for a hour.
Then scrubbed and patched.

I did this 3 times, the patches where coming out clean, but I could still see rough lands near the forcing cone.
http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u543/Pablo5959/image.jpg1_zpsnuolsznc.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/Pablo5959/media/image.jpg1_zpsnuolsznc.jpg.html)
http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u543/Pablo5959/image.jpg2_zps37i8rnlq.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/Pablo5959/media/image.jpg2_zps37i8rnlq.jpg.html)
This is what it looks like. It's the rifling cut.
I talked to costumer service today, the tech said I could send it in but he said they most likely just send it back and say its within spec.

Has anyone else had a .44mag look like this?
What do you guys think?
It group fair. But always thought it could be better.
Should I send a 8 year old gun in in hope they may repair it?
I would hate to sell it to some unsuspecting soul knowing the rifling is jacked.

My 686 looks smooth as glass.
Thanks
Pablo

[Camba]

My conspiracy theory tells me that potentially, this revolver has had a jacketed bullet stocked and some hard tool was used to push it out (slipping the tool against the jammed jacketed bullet).
Camba

[BK7saum]

Is the rough spot in the groove? If so, that would be hard to do and not mess up the lands on either side.

Brad

[Pablo 5959]

The rifling was cut by an electric cutting tool.
They apparently had some quality issues so they lowered there specs instead of fixing them.
(from archived posts)

[waksupi]

Don't worry about rifling grooves. They can be rough as a corn cob. Be concerned about the bore itself. That is the working part of the barrel where accuracy comes from.

[NSB]

Don't worry about rifling grooves. They can be rough as a corn cob. Be concerned about the bore itself. That is the working part of the barrel where accuracy comes from.
When did the grooves not become part of the bore? I have seen some pretty rough looking bores that still shot very, very well.

[Petrol & Powder]

Have you tried using a hard tool to carefully scrape that material in the groove just to make sure it's not lead? You're not going to hurt anything if you use a narrow tool that stays between the lands (like the edge of a small punch). I've seen that many times and more often than not it is fouling and not a defect in the steel.
A Lewis lead remover is another useful tool if you can find one.

[44man]

Surely looks like soft boolit skidding. Powder coating is not 100% proven to toughen a boolit.
The wrong boolit hardness is never helped by any lube and PC is just a lube. A tight patch on a jag will peel out leading but a slotted rod and patch is a waste of time.
Toss jointed rods and use steel rods with a muzzle protector and a jag, never slotted rod ends.
Get the boolit to stop skidding.

[Char-Gar]

If my barrel looked like that, rough metal in the grooves would not be the first suspect. That looks like the bullet has deposited something in the breech end of the barrel.

Hoppes 9 is a decent, but not outstanding powder solvent, but it is worthless on other types of fouling (metal, lead and PC). Soak the spot with Kroil and get after it with a new oversized brush. I buy USGI 50 caliber brushes and use them in my 45s. When they get a little worn, I used them in my 44s, and when they don't do that job any more, they get used in the 38s. After that they are trashed.

[captaint]

I agree with Camba on this one. I think somebody got digging around with something hard - for some reason. Stuck jacketed bullet in the throat maybe ?? Of course, they should just have pushed it out from the muzzle end (carefully). Maybe somebody messed up trying to slug the bore ?? Probably still shoot fine, though.

[bhn22]

In some forms, lead fouling (leading) can look like steel. Did you try the pretty much standard for lead removal, copper Chore Boy threads wrapped around an old bore cleaning brush? Just to make certain it's not leading? I think I'm seeing leading from bullet skidding too.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Great Picture!

Sometimes during a machining process a cutter can get a chip welded to the cutting edge. This is called a "Built Up Edge."

The results are always a cut that is deeper than intended, and that is what looks like happened to your barrel.

There are basically two ways to make a cut rifled barrel. Single tooth cutter with multiple passes and Broaching which is done with one pass. A broach cuts all the grooves in one pass and uses progressively larger cutting edges do achieve this. A BUE on one of the broaches teeth would do exactly what you have there.

I personally would send it back to them with a letter stating I wanted it replaced and I didn't care if it was "in spec" or not ! It isn't right and that's a fact.

"In Spec" "dimensionally",,,, doesn't apply to that barrel. It is wrong,,, period and should have been rejected.

If they ignored my letter and sent the thing back I'd write directly to the president of the company!

I've done this with RCBS and got a great response. I bet S&W's president would be interested in why a problem like yours wasn't taken care of the first time thru.

My .02 on what to do here.

Randy

[Char-Gar]

It was my understanding that Smith and Wesson no longer cut rifling, but used EMD (Electro Magnetic Discharge) to do the job.

In looking at the pictures I am seeing small deposits on the lands as well. The deposit in the grooves is tapered in shape. The more I look at this, the more I am thinking lead or PC deposit. I am going to stand pat on that.

The forcing cone is very rough, with lots of circular tool marks. I should think a bullet going over them in going to loose some material.

[DougGuy]

I got to go along with Randy on this one. That is a NASTY looking forcing cone, or NON-forcing cone, a collection of rings where it should be smooth, -before- it gets to the leade in to the lands, the leade in itself is rather abrupt, and then those scrapes in there, by my eyes are in the bottom of the grooves am I correct? That's 3 things that I can see need addressing, the rings of tool marks and the abrupt 18° angle on the lands would hurt accuracy in a big way. The scrapes are where metal is missing, and if the boolit is long enough it can seal in the bore without being gas cut too bad if the driving band or the ojive can get out in front of those scrapes without getting gas cut.

You got to figure that 36,000psi standard pressure of a .44 Magnum will obturate the daylights out of all but the harder loads, bhn22 or so, and so this discrepancy in the grooves although it looks bad, won't really hurt groups that bad, OR velocity for that matter. The other two things I mentioned, WILL!

I would definitely send it back and tell them exactly (in a polite manner) what Randy said about in spec or not, this is terrible and you feel it should be repaired, and while they are at it, can they PLEASE cut a PROPER 11° forcing cone without leaving a collection of tool marks behind?

[DougGuy]

IF S&W decides not to fix it, the majority of this barrel's issues can be corrected with an 11° forcing cone cutter and some skilled fingers turning it. If this is an 18° cone on there, which I believe it is, changing the angle of it will get rid of the tool marks and put a more gentle leade in angle on the lands. This would be the two most important issues I see that could be improved on, regardless of what Smith decides to do with it, IF you send it in. It would also get rid of about 1/3 of the worst part of the scrapes in the grooves, which could be lived with afterwards, -or- firelapped to smooth things out somewhat. If you need assistance with this, and decide not to send it in, send me a PM I will gladly help out.

Looks like there is enough metal there to turn what they sent out the door, into something semi-close to this:

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/44%20Magnum/DSC01739_zps53352b7c.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/44%20Magnum/DSC01739_zps53352b7c.jpg.html)

[Petrol & Powder]

It looks to me like build up of lead in the groove as opposed to a deeper cut in the groove. I really think that is lead fouling at the begining of the groove, starting in a rough forcing cone.

AH!... I misspoke = GROOVES not lands! the leading appears to be in the groove!!!

[M-Tecs]

S&W has been using Electro Chemical Machining (ECM) since 1993 for most of their barrels.

http://firearmshistory.blogspot.com/2010/05/rifling-manufacturing-electro-chemical.html

[Petrol & Powder]

I corrected my prior post. The leading appears to be in the groove!
I don't think that is a defect from cutting the rifling. I think that is lead in the GROOVE between the lands.

[DougGuy]

I corrected my prior post. The leading appears to be in the groove!
I don't think that is a defect from cutting the rifling. I think that is lead in the GROOVE between the lands.

It could be, it looks like scrapes to me but you know how digital cameras change things to suit themselves so it could be the illusion of deep scratches. If it is leading, the OP could very gently pry some of it up with the point of an x-acto blade and find out one way or another if it's leading or scratches. Would like to know now!

[coat]

I pick up a NEW 629 two years ago something forcing and rifling was that Bad. call a guy in south texas thats with smith wesson. send it to him on S/W dime it was bad. Now it has a new barrel shootes great almost no leading*

[Petrol & Powder]

It could be, it looks like scrapes to me but you know how digital cameras change things to suit themselves so it could be the illusion of deep scratches. If it is leading, the OP could very gently pry some of it up with the point of an x-acto blade and find out one way or another if it's leading or scratches. Would like to know now!

I'd like to know as well !
The shape and location really makes me think that it is lead but extreme close-up photography makes that a tough call over the internet.

[Pablo 5959]

Guys,
this is NOT foaling.
I tried to but could not even scratch this with a dental pick.

Its the cut.
and it's the same as this member (Castblaster)
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/archive/index.php/t-127717.html
My weapon is 8 years old.

his was new.

Pablo

[Pablo 5959]

I pick up a NEW 629 two years ago something forcing and rifling was that Bad. call a guy in south texas thats with smith wesson. send it to him on S/W dime it was bad. Now it has a new barrel shootes great almost no leading*

Coat,
Could you PM me the contact info for that guy in S Texas.
Pablo

[DougGuy]

Guys,
this is NOT foaling.
I tried to but could not even scratch this with a dental pick.

Pablo

That's what I thought... Let us know how it turns out, and I will still help if needed..

[Petrol & Powder]

Fair enough

[coat]

Pablo LSG warrenty sevice comanche tx. 325 885-2700 or lsgmfg.com good guy try him out

[Pablo 5959]

Coat,
Thanks for the info. I'll call him tomorrow.
Im not getting a good feeling from the tech at S&W.

Here's a couple more pics.
http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u543/Pablo5959/image.jpg1_zpsdij4mbtr.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/Pablo5959/media/image.jpg1_zpsdij4mbtr.jpg.html)
http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u543/Pablo5959/image.jpg5_zps0lnglyvo.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/Pablo5959/media/image.jpg5_zps0lnglyvo.jpg.html)
http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u543/Pablo5959/image.jpg3_zpslrw8bcr3.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/Pablo5959/media/image.jpg3_zpslrw8bcr3.jpg.html)
Does any one else know if going around S&W for warranty work will fly?

[Piedmont]

If that revolver were mine, I would fire lap it. Let some abrasive chew on what is sticking up where it shouldn't be.

[44man]

I did notice the rough forcing cone and it does look like it is tearing the boolits enough to open gas channels.
I would have DougGuy recut it.

[Pablo 5959]

Pablo LSG warrenty sevice comanche tx. 325 885-2700 (tel:325 885-2700) or lsgmfg.com good guy try him out

Well, Coat.
I talked to Frank at LGS, he seems like a great guy.
He is sending me a shipping label.

he said he has seen this many times before and he is optimistic that S&W will authorize the recut of the grooves and forcing cone.

Thanks Coat
Pablo