New to me CVA .54 cal - 2 questions

[repawn]

Hi all,

I just made a trade for a CVA .54 cal muzzleloader. I do not know the model - I have done some searching but can't find any particular rifle that matches it. It appears to have all stainless hardware including the barrel and has never been fired. I believe it was made in 1986 based on the serial number - made in Spain. First question, does anyone know what model it is (pics below:)

133519 133520133521133522

Second question, what is the deal with double set triggers? I can monkey with it off the gun and it works great - put it back on and it stops working - I messed with it for about 2 hours and the best I can do is get it to set the rear trigger when I cock it. I had it working well - then thought the tang screw was too loose (since the barrel attaches to it I felt I should have it tighter) I guess my question is - what am I doing wrong - if the answer is - keep working on it I am fine with that - just looking for some tips.
Thanks!

[bubba.50]

it is a CVA Mountain Rifle. one of the best guns CVA ever made. one cause of problems with their double-set triggers is that over the years when people take their guns apart for cleanin' & maintenance they over-tighten the tang bolt on re-assembly compressin' the wood causin' the triggers to be drawn up into the wood which changes all kinds of geometry of things. try shimmin' the trigger plate near the front of it's inlet & see if that helps. a popsicle stick thickness or so may help. if that solves yer problem a more permanent fix can be made by drillin' the tang-bolt hole a bit bigger & puttin' a proper length piece of metal tubin' in it for a spacer. luck to ya & have a good'en, bubba.

[nicholst55]

it is a CVA Mountain Rifle. one of the best guns CVA ever made. one cause of problems with their double-set triggers is that over the years when people take their guns apart for cleanin' & maintenance they over-tighten the tang bolt on re-assembly compressin' the wood causin' the triggers to be drawn up into the wood which changes all kinds of geometry of things. try shimmin' the trigger plate near the front of it's inlet & see if that helps. a popsicle stick thickness or so may help. if that solves yer problem a more permanent fix can be made by drillin' the tang-bolt hole a bit bigger & puttin' a proper length piece of metal tubin' in it for a spacer. luck to ya & have a good'en, bubba.

Or glass bed the tang in the stock. Or both.

[bubba.50]

beddin' the tang certainly won't hurt but the problem is the trigger-plate needs to be shimmed out to its original depth in the stock to put all the angles back in sync for the triggers to work properly.

[waksupi]

beddin' the tang certainly won't hurt but the problem is the trigger-plate needs to be shimmed out to its original depth in the stock to put all the angles back in sync for the triggers to work properly.

This is probably the solution. Also see if there is any metal to wood contact between the trigger mechanism, the sear bar, and the wood. If so, remove the wood that is interfering. It could be blocking the free travel of the sear bar or trigger bar.

[repawn]

Thanks for the reply - I put a small shim in and everything was ok until I put the trigger guard on - it must have compressed the trigger again. Happy to know I was more or less on the right track. Will work on shimming it and look into some sort of pillar bedding in the future.
I finally was able to clean the barrel - looks I fired but was caked with something like cosmoline but less greasy and more waxy. Took hot water to start breaking it out.
I originally thought the barrel was stainless but it is magnetic. I have never owned a stainless firearm before so maybe they are magnetic.
Thanks again for the info.

[koehlerrk]

Common misconception that all stainless steels are non-magnetic. Some are quite magnetic.

Other than the trigger issues, looks like you got a good one.

[Pipefitter]

If the gun was never fired the sear engagement may need to be looked at also. And make sure the "fly" in the lock is free to move, will save you from having to find or make a new sear.


Edit: The barrel may be carbon steel instead of stainless, just unfinished. CVA sold a bunch of rifles as kits as well as finished firearms, the trigger guard being in the white tipped me off. Try a drop of cold blue on the bottom of the barrel where the stock will cover it. If it is "in the white" you may consider browning the barrel and furniture instead of bluing, I think it looks better on muzzleloaders.

[repawn]

Thanks all - I hadn't considered that maybe it was supposed to be browned and was never finished. The metal looks great for 30 years in the white if that is the case. I may try a dab of cold blue tonight - see if it sticks. I need to play with the trigger tonight - it works - but not the way it is intended - I plan on shooting it this weekend - so there s a deadline. Luckily for me my LGS carries Goex and I already have some 2f for my TC Encore. I will assume best performance will come from round ball - but all I have right now is a pack of Hornady 425gr great plain bullets. Not optimal - but maybe I will find some round balls this week yet.
Thoughts on the trigger - will it be necessary to do some filing on some of it? It has one mainspring - the backlash adjustment screw and the set trigger engagement screw. The backlash screw is in quite a bit and the engagement screw is almost all the way out. Uncocked - I can set the trigger and the front trigger works great. When I cock the rifle it will not hold unless the set trigger is already set (previously the sear arm must have pushed on it enough to set it.) Tonight I will shim it up about 1/16th and see if that helps - if that doesn't work - time to remove some metal?
Thanks guys.

[docone31]

Don't file the trigger bars. Adjust the plate instead.
Take the triggers out and check how they work. Then put some lipstick on the lock bar and see where the triggers hit. From there you can take JB Weld and adjust the height of the trigger plate in respect to the lock.
Sometimes, the trigger plate can be bent out of shape. That can change the geometry of the set bar.
Little adjustments.
It could be the front of the trigger bar is down too far. Tightening the rear screw can bend the bar. Or it is now too deep in the stock. This can result in impacting wood in the trigger area.
I gave my wife one of these. They are great. Thin patch, 70 to 90gns of powder. A good firing rifle.
Take your time with the trigger. It is probably something small.
Good luck

[fouronesix]

Ya, likely in the white as those were offered in both kit form and finished. Never heard of one in stainless. That may also explain the funky trigger. Someone put it together, didn't work right so didn't brown or blue it- quit on it.

You can take out the trigger and lock. Usually fairly easy to figure out what is going on. Also obvious how those adjustment screws affect trigger. Once correct geometry is determined between the lock and trigger and small shims (or minimal spacers) are in place to hold everything in correct position and tested, glass bed for a stronger, more permanent fit.

Most likely either 60" or 66" twist so were for roundball- not conical. Easy enough to check twist with a tight jagged patch on a ramrod. Oh almost forgot, the only "conical" that might work ok would a true hollow base Minié loaded over a fairly modest charge of about 50 gr BP.

[waksupi]

Many set triggers require the front trigger to be cocked, to set the rear trigger. Single stage, or double stage.

[bubba.50]

I had the same problem with a mountain rifle til I got the triggers shimmed to the correct depth. when they're too far up in the stock the rear trigger bar is too high & hits the sear bar unless it is set first.

[repawn]

Thanks all for the advice. I will tear it all apart again tonight and work on shimming/bedding the trigger - it is kind of far into the wood.
There is an adjustment screw on the lock - I think it only adjusts sear travel though.
Going to pick up some Laurel Mountain browning - should get some protection on the barrel - though I like the look of not now - I will like it more browned.

[fouronesix]

You should be able to get it up and running with a little patience and study. I think the nose caps were either pewter or a white metal alloy of some sort and are correct left in that gray color.

I believe the CVA Mtn Rifles in large bore (54&58 cal) came a little later (mid 80s) than the original most common 50 cals. The 58s were supposed to have 72" twist. The 54s... I don't know. Running a tight patch down the bore should tell between a 60-66" or the 72" twist.

I had experience with a couple of them in about 1978-80. Their bores were somewhat rough with tool marks and had sharp land edges. You can either lap out the roughness. Or shooting a bunch of PRBs will smooth out the bore and should improve it over time.

If the Laurel Mtn browning doesn't work so well, the Birchwood Casey Plum Brown will. Evenly heat the parts up and apply the solution with a dauber. Card, rinse and repeat. You can see the deep brown color form instantly when the temp is right.

[Pipefitter]

I do not know if i still have a CVA instruction manual, I would get in touch with CVA. They should be able to get one to you, it has the instructions to adjust the set trigger and the sear properly. I am headed out the door right now or I would look. PM me with an address and I will get a few .490 round balls and some patching material to you.

[repawn]

PM me with an address and I will get a few .490 round balls and some patching material to you.

Thanks for the offer - I actually have rbs for my .50 cal. The cva is .54 - need to try a few out in .530 then pick up a mold. I use mattress ticking in my 50 cal. So I would just cut them slightly bigger for the .54.

[mooman76]

I had the same problem with a mountain rifle til I got the triggers shimmed to the correct depth. when they're too far up in the stock the rear trigger bar is too high & hits the sear bar unless it is set first.



bubba50 is spot on. This was a common problem with the Mountain rifles. They inlet the triggers a little too deep. I just pot a washer under mine to shim it out.

[repawn]

Awesome advice all!! Thanks. If anyone is interested -I found a place to download CVA instructions: http://www.deercreekproducts.net/schematics-manuals--information.html
They apparently bought all spare parts from CVA in 2010. I am happy that I have found a schematic for the Mountain Rifle.

[docone31]

Ticking is too thick for that rifle as it is. Start with much thinner material. My loads were all over the range with ticking. As soon as I went with thinner patching, the loads came together. Also, you can use Lapping Compound for lube for the first 10 shots or so.
Fire lapping. It works for me.

[Pipefitter]

I found +/- 140 speer .530 round balls, have no use for them, I can get them in a SFRB for $6 if you are interested.

[repawn]

I found +/- 140 speer .530 round balls, have no use for them, I can get them in a SFRB for $6 if you are interested.

Pm sent - thanks for the offer!

[slumlord44]

Nice rifle. CVA never used stainless barrels on these. Supposed to be one of their best. Have a .54 and .58 that I got late last year and have not had a chance to shoot yet. Have a .45 Kentucky and .54 Hawken that are both great shooters. The trigger issues are common. Have a Squirrel Rifle under construction that I am having similar issues. Need to take the time to sort it out.

[repawn]

Quick update: last night I took a look at it - trigger assembly was sitting about 3/16 under the wood. I glued some maple into the area to shim it. Will have to check it out tonight after the glue has had time to cure.
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/12/8a8c74643327265a2c7773c8e5220d92.jpg pretty big gap.

In other news - picked up 3 more bp guns from the guy I purchased this from - he had the manual for the rifle as well!
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/12/f9118bda07615716e66882d90e8a3bf2.jpg

I should be set for shooting this weekend. Thanks for the comments and advice.

[repawn]

Last night I was able to test my fix - still took an hour of fiddling around - but now I have a functioning double set trigger. I will test fire it tomorrow - hopefully it all functions correctly.

[repawn]

Finally got out to shoot today - unfortunately I wasn't able to pick up the RBs Pipefitter sent me (Thanks again!) So I loaded the 425gr Hornady great plains boolit. I found one of the them in our still partially frozen ground here - it mushroomed a lot:
133953

I only had enough time to put 9 rounds through it today so I was just playing - checking the sights and trying out different powder amounts. It seemed to like 70gr of FFg - but I don't have enough testing to confirm that.

All of this has lead me to two more questions? What can be done to prevent caps from forming themselves to the hammer - nearly every one stuck inside the hammer. The #11 caps were loose but worked.
Do you take the lock mechanism off and scrub it every time you shoot - it is probably only coated in cap residue (I think)
thanks

[bubba.50]

about all you can do about the caps is see if ya can find a nipple with a smaller flash hole. as for cleanin' the lock, if it has any space between it & the barrel it should be removed & cleaned at least periodically if not every time.

[docone31]

I sanded the inside of the hammer. No caps get stuck since. There was lots of crud in there along with an old cap shard.

[repawn]

Good advice. I found a cap that was formed perfectly to the hammer.
I will be taking the rifle apart to clean thoroughly tonight - but was hoping I could shoot - clean barrel and anywhere else black powder fouling was located- wipe down the hammer and lock - then shoot again today. With my BP revolvers I tear them apart every time I shoot.
I didn't want to mess with the lock because I don't want to potentially spend an hour redoing the double set triggers.
Going to make some smoke now. Happy shooting

[mooman76]

Simply removing the lock won't effect your trigger set up.