help me fine tune my new .38 special.

[johnson1942]

finally some perfect weather to test my new revolver. my new hand gun is a uberti 1871-1872 open top .38 special. twist is 18.75 right hand. top of lands bore is .355, bottom of grooves according to specs. is .346. i havent checked mine, thats what the specs say. i loaded about 200 rounds of a copper clad .357 150 grain bullets with 12 grains of weighed blackhorn 209 powder behind it.crimped and they look good. shot off of pad on the deck railing at 15 yards at a small round black dot on a piece of plywood leaning against a stack of tires. could easily keep a 2 and 1/2 inch group. better as i got used to the gun. i know nill about fine tuneing revolvers. my only other revolver is a smith modle 17 targe .22 that will drill holes in holes. at 10 ft what is rattle snake and mountain lion range here it shoots to point of aim and stays in the same hole. that is good as i will carry it on long walks in this remote area. at 15 yards i raise the front sight up a little and it shoots where i want. now how do i improve it even more? the reason for the 209 powder is that is all i can get here and i dont want to use real black. the 209 powder cleans up with two patches both in the barrel and the cylinders. never clogs the gun, it prformed fine and never got tight. i want to know all every one knows on how to shoot really tight groups consistantly. any and all info will be taken seriously. if you use terminology please explain what that means as i dont even know the terms of the words used in most of the post here. i really like this gun, easy to shoot, reliable and has a nice feel about it. noise and recoil are real low also. i know how to paperpatch both muzzle loaders and rifles but revolvers are a new thing and i know nothing about them. from what i gathered from reading every thing here the bore and the cylinder ratio in size diam seems to be right. again, help, i want to know what you guys know and to be able to understand it when you talk revolver talk. thanks before hand johnson 1942.

[tazman]

There is a sticky at the beginning of this forum entitled----A beginners guide to revolver accuracy.
I would suggest you begin there. That will give you a knowledge of terms and how they apply to what you are now doing. It will also give you an idea of what needs to be done to possibly improve your accuracy with your gun.
I have never tried any black powder or substitute in my 38 special, so I am not certain how it will perform relative to smokeless powder so I can't really advise you there.

[.22-10-45]

Just wondering if you would be better served with a grease-groove bullet with a soft black powder lube? In my .38,s with smokeless, a soft beeswax based-anhyd. lanolin-castor oil mix shot more accurately than any of the commercial "stick" lubes.

[johnson1942]

i think a cast grease groove bullet would be better. i have to get a mold and try it.

[jonp]

"There is a sticky at the beginning of this forum entitled----A beginners guide to revolver accuracy."

I totally missed that thread. Thanks for pointing it out

[bedbugbilly]

I don't have a '72 open top . . . yet. But, I do have a 357 Uberti Bisley (as well as a number of "vintage" Smiths & Colts). The original '72 was designed for the BP 44 Henry cartridge which had a lead boolit. I'm thinking you might be better using lead through the '72.

For 38 spl. - I usually cast a 160 gr. slug from a Lyman 358-311 which is like the traditional RN slug that the old Winchester molds cast for the early 38s. I also use a 121 gr. RN slug from a Lyman 358-242. These have traditional grease grooves but I just tumble lube them in Alox/Paste Wax and they shoot great from my Bisley. I'm primarily loading with Bulls Eye and Red Dot.

If you decide to load with BP - you will need to use a "compressed" load. Fill your casing to about a 1/10" higher than the base of the boolit when seated - this way when you seat, your boolit will compress the load. Regular small pistol primers work fine. You will want to use a BP lube - I just finger lube the grooves on my slugs and seat them. The BP lube keeps the fouling soft. You could use a thin cardboard wad over the powder and a grease cookie between that and the base of the boolit - but for me, the greased grooves are adequate.

I am not a "high tech" caster - I use a pot and dipper and usually use "range lead". For my BP cartridges though, I have started using soft lead for the boolits. I leave them "as cast" and they normally fall anywhere from .358 to .359, depending on which mold I use.

If you decide to try BP . . mix up a solution of 1/3 denatured alcohol, 1/3 murphys oil soap and 1/3 hydrogen peroxide. Mix well and store in a dark container such as the hydrogen peroxide comes in to keep the solution from "breaking down". This works great for BP clean up. Too many folks think that shooting BP is "too messy". It isn't and the fun you have are well worth it. Your '72 breaks down pretty easily - the same as my '51 Navies that I've been shooting for 50+ years. Clean them well after shooting then oil lightly - wash your brass out with hot soapy water and then rinse as soon as you can after shooting to remove the BP residue - lay 'em out to dry and when dry - reload for more fun.

And don't forget you can load up 38 Colt Short and 38 Colt Long to use in that open top as well. I've been using the Lee 358-90 SWC (90 gr.) as well as the Lyman 358-242 - 90 gr slug. They work very well in the Bisley in both the Short and Long casings. For those, I TL in Alox/Paste Wax and load over Bulls Eye and Red Dot. Of course they are reduced grain loads due to the shorter case length. Those are the powders I have on hand but there are many more out there that would work well.

Good luck and have fun!

[Three44s]

I think you have a good start on the gun portion of the equation from the above posters ....... I'll switch to "tuning the shooter".

What I use is golf balls.

They are tough, cheap (old retired ones) and WHITE!

Black sights and white golf balls! When I head to my lead bank, I take my black ink laundry pen to cover any shiney parts of the sights where the blueing has worn thin.

I also use a Smith model 17 ........ a early 50's in my case and I shot the living daylights out of it back when I was starting out.

I adjusted my sights for "pumpkin on a post" and went at it .......... usually 150 rounds at a session. I shoot a mix of single action and double action (with the heavy guns as well). My hands are large enough that I can "single the double" as Elmer Keith put it and so I can stack trigger pressure and cycle the sights up to the intended impact point, hold ...... and bring the handgun back up towards the point with the intention of releasing just as I reach the impact point. I do this in single and double both ....... I never cover my target point but just nestle up to it .......

You are going to move one way or another ....... it might as well be predictable and productive. Keep the vertical alignment dead on (as much as you can) and allow the handgun to float up to the target and lower slightly and then float back up to point of aim but not over it. Stack the pressure as you approach your intended let off point ..... if you don't accomplish trigger release then ......... just hold and repeat until you get the round off.

I would finish up with my bigger guns ...... the .44's of course and then just a few bear loads at the very end.

If you try them (golf balls) you'll find that your .22 is harder on them than your bigger guns ....... it seems backwards but that's the way it is for me.

You start close with a small target such as a golf ball but your own success tells you when it's time to move back .... and the relative visibility of them is a great aid (I use the high vis ones in snow). It is far more important to literally "own" that golf ball than to try and stretch your shooting distance too soon. Own it then move back. The same goes for speed ..... accuracy then range then speed.

Another component to this is TONS of dryfire! I won't go into the in's and outs as to your guns except to point out that rimfires and dryfire are not "kosher" but centerfires and especially with snap caps are.

As I worked through my shooting, I was also begining to work with instinctive shooting ........ sometimes called "hip shooting". And the golf balls served the purpose just fine there as well.

Several years after I had taught myself with this system ....... I took great pleasure in introducing my young nephews to the same training. An old hand at handguns had taught me the above and it was time to pay it forward!

It was amazing to see how fast they "got it"! I had each one out by himself (with out his brother) to remove any pressure ..... and aid in concentration. My youngest nephew was running a golf ball up and over a 10 foot high slope (about 20 feet long) and trying to do it in just six rounds with my Smith 17 .... and he did it a few times ....... had me laughing and in stitches by the time we finished.

As we finished their initial lesson(s), I asked each one if they thought they could have done that well before we went out ........ and they were as amazed as I was ....... and they really appreciated the experience.

And I felt greatly rewarded in passing along some skill to them.

The current market conditions with .22 LR is a downright "crime" and I don't do the .22 stuff for myself these days ..... I splurged for the youngsters because the last thing you want to do is to sour a young shooter with a flinch. Their time with the bigger guns will come soon enough.

Best regards

Three 44s

[johnson1942]

the model 17 can sure spoil you as my son and i even took prairie dogs at 150 yards with it. just shoot one round for effect and walk it in and you get the dog before it goes empty. i shot 100 rounds through the open top and got better with it as it went along. im very comfortable with it and can keep a 3 inch gong spinning with no misses at 15 yards. as posted it is dead on for rattle snakes at 10 feet, could take their heads off. wont shoot a mountain lion untill that close so it good for that also. last summer a local guy had to put one down with his .357 at 10 ft. the thing went for him, only a couple of miles from here. ive been studing the mold made for a .358 but i may even have a custom mold made. i figured on useing lee alox as i see others use it and i like it also. thanks for all the info.