Wheel Weight BHN

[lightman]

A few weeks go I smelted a pot of clip on wheel weights, maybe 300# or so. I just now checked one of the ingots and it measured .082 on my Cabine Tree tester, or between 13-14 BHN. I thought these were newer coww and was expecting a lower reading. These were air cooled and I got repeatable readings several times. These were also hand sorted, so I'm not expecting any zinc contamination. What are you Guys getting on yours? I am pretty sure that I'm reading the chart correctly.

[Defcon-One]

Sounds about right to me. I get around 12 -13 BHN normally, but they can vary a bit. The error on your tester is probably 1-2 +-, so I'd say your right on target.

Maybe you have a bit exta Antimony in that batch. Nothing wrong with that. It is a bonus!

DC-1

[bangerjim]

I consider COWW's as 12 hardness. The CabinE is good...the CabinE is wise. Fast and accurate. At leaset close enough for what we do!

banger-j

[KYCaster]

I'm beginning to suspect that the companies still making lead WW's are recycling WW's contaminated with Zn.

I've given up on WW as a source of boolit alloy....I avoid it like the plague. Too many times I've gotten <50% yield out of WW and still had problems with the alloy. You can have it!

Jerry

[paralaska]

My (un-smelted) COWWs come in at 12 brinnel . . .

[Slow Elk 45/70]

I have always answered this question as 12-13 BHN , that was before the clip on got to hard to find. Used to have a couple of tire shops that were happy for me to haul them away a couple of six PKS now and then was all ever paid for WW ....60's,70,80,90 ...I started mixing my own ....time marches on, I'm starting to feel like a dinasore....:cbpour:

[hockeynick39]

If they contained zinc, the ingots wouldn't fill out properly and you would have a type of scum on top when trying to flux. Also, this means that you are smelting at waaay to high a temperature. I try to keep it down to where just the cows melt and that the other wws will float for skimming. Nice batch lightman! Mine fluctuate between 8-12, but are normally in the 12s for BHN when I test the weights, ingots, and ac boolits. Plenty good enough for everything but HV rifle and magnum pistol in some instances.

[lightman]

Thanks for the replys,guys! I was surprised at the hardness as I was expecting a little less. These may have been a mix of newer and older weights, but I was thinking most were newer. I'm pretty sure there is no or at least very little zinc. These were hand sorted, and there was none of the oatmeal stuff on top. Also, a quick acid test shows no bubbles or fiz.

KYcaster, thats a new angle that I never thought of. Scary thoughts!

Wheel weight yields seem to be holding up good around here. Its still a good source for me as none of the scrap yards will sell to the public. They are everything everyone says about them, dirty, greasy, nasty, stink, smoke and are a pita to sort.

Now if this winter weather would go away I have about 3 more batches that size to do!

[RogerDat]

300# is 300# and it only stinks while smelting it! Only dirty WW's until it is smelted. Solution? Get more, sort early and smelt soon. Viola! clean ingots where once dirty WW's sat. :-D

[Cloudwraith]

I just got my cabine tree tester today and went though a lot of my ww stock. Bullets as well as ingots. My bullets are all about 1 year cast and air cooled. They came in about 10-13 (although this is an estimate per the cabine tree instructions)

[Frank V]

Thanks fella's I had no idea what the BHN is. I know they are harder than they need to be for handgun bullets.
I mostly cast handgun bullets from WWs, & they don't expand on much of anything. They do penetrate though!:mrgreen:

[wordsmith]

I'm getting 10-12 BHN typically on COWW with Lee Tester. Most comes in right around 11.

[lightman]

Thanks Guys! I was just a little surprised as I thought these were mostly newer weights and was expecting a lower hardness level.

[RogerDat]

Thanks Guys! I was just a little surprised as I thought these were mostly newer weights and was expecting a lower hardness level.

Old weights might have been a tiny amount richer alloy but the main difference was older supplies did not have zinc, steel and soft lead SOWW's. Those old buckets or stashes would be almost 100% lead. Would not expect all that much difference between the BHN of ingots from older weights and newer.

I could be wrong but I'm thinking we are talking 10th of percentages difference.

[Larry Gibson]

I measure COWWs for BHN at 11 - 12 after minimum 10 days aging. Adding 2% tin brings them up to 14 - 16 BHN AC'd after 10 days.

Larry Gibson

[huntinlever]

I'm beginning to suspect that the companies still making lead WW's are recycling WW's contaminated with Zn.

I've given up on WW as a source of boolit alloy....I avoid it like the plague. Too many times I've gotten <50% yield out of WW and still had problems with the alloy. You can have it!

Jerry

I haven't even started and I'm pretty much giving up. I live in a liberal paradise and I think x-ray people are going to pagan witch dances to ward off radiation, not lead any longer. Scrap yards, when I can get one to even sell me anything, are offering it at $0.70 per pound and that's unsorted. Given my newness, not sure I want to dive into that game.

So - what are you using, and what BHN are you getting? I've seen so many opinions on required hardness - lots of high hardness guys (probably helped by both BT and Cast Performance selling +20 BHN bullets), and lots using low numbers, unquenched w/w, 1:20 to 1:16, 10-12% BHN. Every one are people I've come to respect in my short time loading (and non-existent time casting, as I'm assembling equipment - and basic know how. This site and its people are fantastic).

I've a 45/70 with pushing an intended Accurate 425 grain .330 meplat boolit at 1600 fps, tops, though for "fun" I'm pushing some gc'ed CP 420's higher. I think 1:20 seems to be the way to go, but now I'm on a hunt to see what people are using, where they get it, and what they're using it for. Thanks for any thoughts.

[bangerjim]

Dont't give up. There are many excellent sources of very reasonable priced lead and alloys on the S&S section. If you are unfortunate to live in a liberal greene state/town, UPS/USPS is your friend! Buying your needs on here will still be cheaper than buying com-cast or FMJ's.

Worrying about hardness was old school. Today we know "FIT IS KING". Worry more about the size of your barrels than the hardness of your pours. I cast 9-12 + PC for everything subsonic and ~14 + PC for sonic.

banger-j

[huntinlever]

Thanks Banger. That's helpful. I know it's tough to price, as each region or even city is different, but I went to my local scrapyard and they'd be willing to sell me sorted COWW for $0.75/lb. - is this reasonable (Seems so)?

[huntinlever]

Well, first 20+ pounds of 20:1 in ingots. It's a start!

Sorry, Banger, forgot to ask - what does "PC" mean in, " PC"?

-oh, and given that I will be hunting with the 425's right around 1600 fps, you'd suggest 14 BHN + PC, yes? Seems like antimony is needed, then?

I use a gascheck and someone from Marlinowners suggested pure + 3% to 1450 fps, the same + a gas check to 1750 fps. So for 1600 - what are your thoughts?

I'm not using w/w, given the outrageous price I'd be paying locally ($100 per 5 gallon bucket, roughly). But I ordered the Accurate mold on w/w basis, so I can expect anywhere from .46075 to .46125, as I understand it.

The more I think on this, the more I'd prefer to either leave the bullet unsized - though I want a gc and don't know how to do it without sizing, unless I buy a sizer +002 or so larger than my desired bullet (itself, with the .458 bore, +.002) and just use the sizer for seating the gc, or buy a larger, .461 sizer. Seems bore-sizing is where it's at.

Thanks again.

[bangerjim]

PC is Power Coating. The latest amazing evolution in boolit lubing.

Check out "alternative coatings" in the stickies.

No more smoke. No more grease. No more sticky boolits. No more leading!!!!!!! And you can shoot softer lead and stretch your expensive alloys.

banger-j

[huntinlever]

Gotcha, thanks bangerjim. I need to read up on this next. I've seen some on it now, and am really intrigued.

[huntinlever]

OK. Sourced about 80 lbs. cleaned, fluxed w/w for a decent price. Here's the plan, and I'd appreciate a reality check.

Given my hunting purpose of 1600 fps or so, non-expandibility on a 425 grain wide-meplat flat nose:

-An initial 50:50 w/w-pure alloy for an initial BHN of 10.1 or so;
-Some method of heat hardening, heat hardening and quenching, or straight quenching after moulding; and
-Age-hardening, whichever above method I use.

Desired final BHN of 16-18.

I'm reading both the NRA's cast bullet book, as well as the LASC book, to better learn all this stuff. As a rough and ready estimate, just hoping whether the above seems reasonable (similar question asked on MO.com btw - so if any members here are also there, wouldn't want to double-query you).

Thanks.

Sorry, forgot to add, will want to add in tin to bring it up to about 2%.

[RogerDat]

I think heat hardening always involves quenching. Doing it in an oven after casting allows one to have more precise control of the temp the bullet is and the duration it spends hot so it is same temp through and through before dropping it in a bucket. Dropping them from the mold into cold water is a lot more efficient and works fine for lots of folks.

Think it somewhat depends on how precise you need it to be and if you need to run the bullet through a sizing die or can use it at the size it casts at. Heat treating in oven after sizing might be preferred to dropping them from the mold to harden then pushing them through the sizing die. But people do both so...

Other than that 50/50 + 2% tin is about as tried and true a recipe as it gets.