ww changing

[686]

i have heard some say that the present made ww are not the same or not as good for bullets as they were 20 yrs ago. i am excluding the zink ones. i can see them making new ones out of recycled lead of all types now days . it is not a problum for me for bullets because i add liontype and 60/40 to my mix. it could become a problum with my shoot making, as the drippers likes good ww. what is your exp.? thanks

[454PB]

I have some that are 30 years old, and recently bought another 300 pounds from a tire store. I really have no way of tellling how old the newest ones are, but they seem identical to the old ones, and hardness tests are the same.

[felix]

Depends on the area and who does what to make WW, obviously. ... felix

[Bass Ackward]

My WW from the 60s were 9% antimony according to Lyman. They were so hard they would ring like lino if you dropped them. This is the reason why some of there formulas for Lyman #2 don't make sense.

In the 70s there was consolidation in the industry down to two vendors that made 2% and 4% antimony WW which is what we are supposed to have today. How yours is depends on where you are as to what percentage of each you get. I have had guys send me aged ACWW that measures as low as 10 BHN that was supposed to be screened for pure lead weights. Mine, is 13 BHN before additives using my tester so I am closer to the 4% level.

[cbrick]

Bass is basically right. From the 70's through the early 80's there was a general across the board decrease in the antimony percentage in WW. This is where the common and generally accepted and often repeated myth that WW where changing, can't be counted on and are no good for bullet casting anymore came from. They did change but most casters today know they are still a highly useful and valuable resource. In bullet casting literature old wives tales sometimes die a slow death.

Today and for the past 25+ years WW has been "reasonably" stable with minor variations in antimony from manufacturer to manufacturer. Its at the least stable enough for bullet casting for all but the purist that shoots only virgin alloy. For me the reduction in antimony is a good thing, I don't like high antimony bullets as I shoot mostly on steel. Today's -3-4% antimony is a close "good" for a lot of bullet casting uses and can be quenched or HT to greatly expand its usefulness. I don't need to find and buy pure lead to cut it reducing my costs.

I've cast, HT, shot and BHN tested WW alloy for long range handgun accuracy almost exclusively for over 25 years and yes, I have found some variation but what I haven't found is enough variation to effect the alloy ballistically. I've used and tested WW alloy from all over the western U.S. and even one 500 pound lot from Europe that came off new Volvo's and variations are surprisingly (to me) small. Its common logic but I'll say it anyway; A huge plus is to blend your WW into as large of lots as possible.

Anyone out there that thinks WW isn't much good because it changes I will be more than happy to take it off your hands for you. [smilie=1:

Rick

[grumpy one]

My WW contain a high proportion of original equipment weights. I don't know of WW actually being manufactured here in Australia anyway, but I don't know where the replacement-grade weights are imported from - China sounds like the logical source. In the original equipment ones I get a lot of steel weights, and even a steady trickle of zinc. I remove only the very soft stick-ons, leaving the harder stick-ons in the general-purpose WW melt. As a result my ingots made from soft stick-ons average 5.3 BHN, and my general purpose WWs average 10.6 BHN at 2 weeks, though they are much harder (average 14.9 BHN at one year) if the ingot mould is cool when they are cast. Cooling curves show that my general purpose WW stream has 2% antimony. If your WWs are running at 10-11 BHN cast into a hot mould and air cooled, they are probably 2% antimony. According to the literature (Frances Weaver's classic paper, "Typemetal Alloys" from 1935) 4% antimony cast into a preheated ingot mould should test at 14.5 BHN.