Humbling experience casting yesterday

[ThatFishGuy]

Hi there, I'm still relativelynew to casting but I've done tons of reading and lurking here on the forum. So far I've been learning on lee 2-cav molds. Results have been ok considering I'm still in the learning process. It takes me a while to dial in my timing/mold temp etc, but once I get going I've made some usable boolits. So For my birthday I bought myself a lee 6-cav for my 45acp (I know I'm a big spender) that I've been shooting much more. It seemed like I just couldn't get dialed in. I was running the lead a little hot to keep the mold up to temp since I wasn't getting filled in lube grooves. Then by the time I was getting nice fill the boolits were really frosted. Frustrated I slowly brought the temp lower slowly and FINALLY thought I got to were they were filling out good enough and coming out relatively smooth and shiny. Then snap... the cam lever for the sprue plate broke off. I never forced it or felt heavy resistance, and I did follow the directions given with the molds. After all the effort I ended up with maybe 10 serviceable boolits, though they are far from examples of fine casting skills haha. I just shook my head in disbelief, and turned off the pot and called it a day. I had my other molds at the ready, but I just didnt have the clear head to fire them up. Sigh... I've got a lot of learning to do.:shock: I know a couple areas where i could have improved. For one I probably needed some tin in the alloy, which was COWW mix with a little range scrap in there. I think this may have helped with the fill out at lower temps? I just had to tell someone who cared. My lady stopped listening at "You stupid sprue plate... *%$$@&"

-Sam

[groovy mike]

As long as the weight is good, I wouldn't worry about frosting. Of course my only six cavity mold is still waiting for my back ordered handles to arrive so I can't really give advice, only sympathy!

[Ben]

ThatFishGuy

Did you start out by filling all 6 cavities on each fill ?

[ThatFishGuy]

Thanks Mike

Ben- I started pouring at the most forward cavity and pushed the mold forward until I had filled all cavities. I let the melt puddle on top of each cavity so at the end result was one big sprue, per the instructions (as I understood them). Is that what you were asking?

[Blanco]

Something to look for on Lee molds
I have seen this on a few of mine. The cam lever will become loose after a number of uses. It can get loose enough that it has enough angle that you are putting too much pressure on the lever ... Then snap. I have broken more than my fair share of levers..

[Ben]

ThatFishGuy

The problem with that technique is the sprue plate and mold are still relatively cool. Filling all 6 holes ( on a cold mold start up ) and then trying to cut the sprue ( all 6 of them ) will often times snap the caming lever ( as you've obviously found out).

A safer start up is to bring up the mold to proper casting temperature is to pour the front 2 cavities, 10 times.
Then the next 2 ( for a total of 4 cavities ) 10 times, then you can pour all 6 at one time.

The chances of breaking the caming lever with the above system is greatly reduced. Although the caming lever can snap at any time on these 6 cavity molds. There are replacement levers made of a higher quality steel for sale here on the forum.

Ben

[ThatFishGuy]

Maybe that's what happened Blanco, because I did feel a slight wiggle in the handle before it snapped. Maybe I just didnt notice it had come loose. I know it wasnt loose when I started, but after that I was just trying to focus on other things.

[fredj338]

Maybe that's what happened Blanco, because I did feel a slight wiggle in the handle before it snapped. Maybe I just didnt notice it had come loose. I know it wasnt loose when I started, but after that I was just trying to focus on other things.
A common problem with Lee 6cav. You have to preheat, I cast 2cavs, then 4cavs then all 6. I have broken 2 handles, so bought machined ones form RedRiver here. I still preheat, but I don't worry about snapping one off.

[ThatFishGuy]

Thanks guys I appreciate that input. Warming up the mold that way 2 at a time makes sense after the fact, but I wouldn't have thought of it. I think will just track down an upgraded handle from the member here then, I don't really want to deal with the cast Lee ones. And I'll try the new preheat method next time, I'm sure it will help some.

[ThatFishGuy]

Fred- Looks like the forum Member is actually Red River Rick, I just put in an order for a new cam lever, hopefully it doesn't take too long getting here from Canada... I'm ready for round two of Newbie vs 6-banger

[1Shirt]

I dip the mold in the melt and hold it there for about 30 seconds. Then I cast the first three or four on the far end, a couple of times, no problem after that as long as I keep the mold hot. I also put the 6 bangers on the stove or a hot plate until they are to hot to touch with the fingers and then go to casting. Have 6 or 7 of them and have only broken the release lever once when I let the mold get a little to cool. Good luck!
1Shirt!

[ThatFishGuy]

1Shirt- I did dip the very corner of the mold in just for a few secs, and that's probably why the first couple cavities were casting the best boolits. I don't have a hot plate yet but I do rest them across the top of the pot for a min or two. They're definitely warm when I start pouring. Thanks everyone! Definitely some good ideas that will hopefully get me off the ground. On the up side- I had no issues with the bullets releasing from the mold, so that did make me happy.

[freebullet]

I set all the ingots I intend to cast on an electric skillet and the mold on them. I plug that in and the pot and in 20 minutes it's ready to pour keepers.

With the 45 mold you want to cut the sprue as soon as it hardens ime. Also you want the sprue plate set a specific way, and the lee won't let you lock in that adjustment. On my lee molds I add a set screw to the sprue screw. Also you didn't mention cleaning the mold prior to casting, with a lee that usually means your going to remelt 300 boolits due to improper fill out. You must remove the oil.

You might want to post where your from. You might be able to find a more experienced caster to help show you the fine details of how to cast good bullets in high production. That 6cav should net you 1k in about 4hrs. Maybe more when you get good.

[ThatFishGuy]

I tried to cut the sprue as soon as the puddle "hazed over". I've seen people add the set screw, but I didn't feel that my sprue plate was coming loose. I did do some cleaning the day before, I used dawn and warm water with a toothbrush to scrub out the oil residue, followed up with some 90% isopropyl (couldn't find my acetone). Im pretty sure the mold was oil free. Good point on the location though: I am in Southern California, specifically the city of orange. I did notice how much faster the 6 cav was compared to me 2 hole molds. I mean obviously its more boolits at once, but I emptied my 10lb pot in what seemed like 5 mins. I was pleasantly surprised at how many I was going to be able to get cast, until the cam snapped that is.

[GP100man]

TFG , I also broke my first 6 banger handle , sooner than you though , I now preheat & start with the 2 holes then 4 then all six & by that time I`m ready to turn the temp down a bit & get into a rythum.

One thing not mentioned is the oils will leach from the aluminum pores for a few heat cycles & cause greif on fill out. I smoke mine a little with a butane liter(long snout 1) & by the time I get all the oils burnt out the pores the layer of soot is barely visible.

Another thing mentionable is to make sure ya have the handle in the full closed position, if moved to the open position just a tad it lessens the mechanical advantage enuff ya have to nearly break it to cut sprues.

I`ve all but abandoned my 123 cavitys for NOEs 5cavitys & lee six banger molds.

I see a 20# pot in your near future !!

+1 on Red River Ricks handles , I don`t own 1 but have used 1 on a lee mold , it feels much more gooder!

GP

[MT Chambers]

That part usually breaks early on or you break the screw that holds it all to the mold, these parts are made of "scintered metal" (read "pot metal"), those 6 cavs. are a good design made from very flimsy materials.

[wv109323]

I preheat the mold on the hot plate and then turn it over and heat the sprue plate.
I also fill the cavity closest to me first and then pull the mold out as I fill the cavities. On my set-up if you do it opposite, and over fill the first cavity the molten lead hits the mold guide, solidifies and you can not push the mold in for the rest of the cavities.

[mulespurs]

The fastest way to break your sprue plate handle is to let your sprue puddle get over into the camming action on the side of the blocks. That negates the cam action of the handle and makes you use what I wold call a direct force on the handle and then they break.
Just my opinion. Keep the sprue puddle in the middle of the sprue plate and you won't have any trouble.

[Driver man]

Same thing happened to me as well. Lee sent me a replacement at no charge and I live in New Zealand. Their backup service is very good. Even so some thing you buy must be fit for purpose and a broken sprue plate shouldnt happen under normal use. I would have thought that Lee would remedy this defect.

[David2011]

Sam,

1. Get a $10 hot plate to preheat. The ones with a solid top are better IMO than the ones with a coil. I knocked the sharp tips off of a circular saw blade and set it on top of the coil on my hot plate.

2. Get some Bullshop Sprue Plate Lube and use it per his instructions. More is not better; just enough is perfect. He's here on CastBoolits. It allows you to open the sprue plate much sooner without smearing lead on the mold and sprue cutter. One little bottle will last many years. I bought two just in case I had a tragic spill.

David

[crowbuster]

Thousands of boolits poured for me. Finally broke one this summer. On my 380 mold of all things. Looked very porous, not right at all.

[ThatFishGuy]

GP100- Funny thing is I was originally going to get the 20lb pot, but I was dumb(er) then and ran across this 10lb pot in a store thinking it was a good deal... I paid about as much as the 20lb goes for online. oops. Definitely need the bigger one with these 6 cav molds.

Ya i was really surprised at how dinky the casting looked once it snapped, why the heck would you make a cam device out of powdered metal????? I know Lee would send me a replacement, and was about to go that route until I was pointed towards RedRiverRicks work. I just dont want to deal with another lee version breaking in the future.

mulesprue- I did my best to keep the sprue puddle on the plate. Though I had never used this mold before I had used the two cavs, and I found out that spilling the sprue over made opening the mold really difficult so I tried to avoid this issue. In this case, it wasn't why the cam broke.

David2011-Hot plate is next on my to buy list. And i'll check out that Bullshop lube, thanks.

[Moonie]

GP100- Funny thing is I was originally going to get the 20lb pot, but I was dumb(er) then and ran across this 10lb pot in a store thinking it was a good deal... I paid about as much as the 20lb goes for online. oops. Definitely need the bigger one with these 6 cav molds.

Ya i was really surprised at how dinky the casting looked once it snapped, why the heck would you make a cam device out of powdered metal????? I know Lee would send me a replacement, and was about to go that route until I was pointed towards RedRiverRicks work. I just dont want to deal with another lee version breaking in the future.

mulesprue- I did my best to keep the sprue puddle on the plate. Though I had never used this mold before I had used the two cavs, and I found out that spilling the sprue over made opening the mold really difficult so I tried to avoid this issue. In this case, it wasn't why the cam broke.

David2011-Hot plate is next on my to buy list. And i'll check out that Bullshop lube, thanks.

I've got a six cavity 45 caliber 300gr Lee mold, that thing drains a 20lb'er REAL fast lol.

[fredj338]

Fred- Looks like the forum Member is actually Red River Rick, I just put in an order for a new cam lever, hopefully it doesn't take too long getting here from Canada... I'm ready for round two of Newbie vs 6-banger

Yes, sorry, typo on the wifes Ipad.:sad:
I also cast cores for swaging 223 from 22lr brass. The mold is a modified Lee 6cav, 11 sprues cut at once! Even preheating, I snapped the handle the first time I used it. It got a machined steel one too.

[fredj338]

I tried to cut the sprue as soon as the puddle "hazed over". I've seen people add the set screw, but I didn't feel that my sprue plate was coming loose. I did do some cleaning the day before, I used dawn and warm water with a toothbrush to scrub out the oil residue, followed up with some 90% isopropyl (couldn't find my acetone). Im pretty sure the mold was oil free. Good point on the location though: I am in Southern California, specifically the city of orange. I did notice how much faster the 6 cav was compared to me 2 hole molds. I mean obviously its more boolits at once, but I emptied my 10lb pot in what seemed like 5 mins. I was pleasantly surprised at how many I was going to be able to get cast, until the cam snapped that is.
Oh yeah, you definitely want a 20# pot for 6cav molds or even for larger 2cav bullets like 400gr 45-70. I see you are in Orange, if you ever want to drop by my place in MV to shoot the poo on guns & reloading, drop a note.

[ncbearman]

Ahh the old frosted boolit debate...............
I actually like the looks of a frosted boolit. Its been my experience that a frosted boolit comes from the mould being too hot. You have 3 things working against you on that. Aluminum mould (it heats up and cools down fast), casting/pouring a large caliber and multiple cavities. Those .45's can heat up a mould quick. I suggest casting/pouring 2 calibers at once if you are going to have a long session. Alternating moulds letting one "rest" while you are casting/pouring the other. Also simply slowing down and leaving the mould time to cool some will work also.

Now just because a boolit is frosted doesn't mean its no good. If you have complete fill out and a good sprue cut (not a rip). You must have good sprue plate pressure and alignment to get a good cut of the sprue. The plate must be level/flush with the mould and enough screw pressure to hold it there but allow the sprue plate to be used. No sloppiness or wiggle. Most boolits that are frosted will not usually cut clean without which you will have varying weights on your boolits. I'm not a big fan of Lee or aluminum moulds. But I do hear folks talking frequently about the issues you mention. There are alot of problems associated with aluminum that you just don't hear about with the steel moulds. Steel maintains temp better also.

Maybe its because I'm old but I am never in a hurry when I cast. For one thing I enjoy doing it. But mainly because everything seems to go smoother when I do. I have a hot plate and pre-heat my moulds. I usually have good boolits by my 2nd or 3rd cast. I have very little "waste" when I cast and usually they are all within 1 or at the most 2 grain of each other. For ringing steel and punching holes thats good for me.

Make sure your sprue plate is aligned and snug cause you want to wait til you cut the sprue not rip it. And watch the temp of your mould. That should get you past the frosted boolits.

[Eddie17]

Thank you Ben, never thought of that. Great idea!

[Land Owner]

No "original thought" here, just a reminder that the Stickies, at the top of this Forum, are a significant source of free experience and instruction. I refer to this thread, http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?4790-This-is-a-Lee-6-cavity-mould that recommends "a steel setscrew for the cam to push against."

I added a setscrew to my 380 ACP 6-cav Ranch Dog TL358-100-RF and it has raised the cam point about 3/32" for what I believe will be greater cam force. I have neither broken a cam, nor been visited by the Tensil Fairy, knock on lead.

To my AL moulds I added a drilled and tapped, 8-32, allen head, set screw to inhibit spru screw loosening and to promote consistency in spru cut off. One word of caution is, as said by others before me, to heat the mould well prior to scribing a mark on the spru screw head. This gives heat expansion a chance to loosen the spru screw. Tighten it snug at working temp. Then scribe a vertical mark on the spru screw bolt head toward the set screw hole. Remove the spru screw. Grind "flat" across the spru screw threads below the mark. Not too deep on this step and just the lower threads. The set screw will now work against the "flat" rather than the diameter of the screw threads.

[ThatFishGuy]

Thanks guys! ya I've read most of the stickies at the top, but I definitely need to go back through the threads on performing some of these mods for the sprue plate screw. Mine seems to be on tight enough and not backing out yet, but I have an older 2 cavity lee mold that could really use that tune-up.

Fred-I'll have to take you up on that when I get a free weekend

[captain-03]

Send Lee an email with a picture of the broken cam ... I have done it twice and Lee sent me replacements at no charge ... worth the time for an email ...

[Cherokee]

I pre-hear the mold on a hot plate, then I fill all 6 cavities every time but I don't let the sprues cool any longer than necessary. Out of a doz 6 cv molds used a lot, one lever broke last year and Lee sent me a replacement. I also now have two steel replacements if I ever snap another one. Key is pre-heating the mold. Don't worry about frosting as long as the bullets are filled out and look good - some casters prefer the frosting. +1 on the Bullplate lube...

[Land Owner]

Send Lee an email with a picture of the broken cam ... I have done it twice and Lee sent me replacements [cam pictures] at no charge ... worth the time for an email ...

There, I fixed it for you...:kidding:

[ThatFishGuy]

nice^^ :) I will email them, I just havent gotten around to snapping a picture. I already have the nicer replacement on the way, but I wouldn't mind having a spare one around for future oops moments.