357 Rossi or 30-30 Marlin brush gun?

[davidheart]

So I'm having a bit of a dilemma for a brush gun, lead only. Now, I have the 308 is for longer ranges, but for under 100 yards having another 30 caliber, but weaker, feels like a bit of redundancy.

For shorter ranges I think I'd prefer a larger bore lead-only gun. I have the 30-30 Marlin I use as lead only but I noticed this last hunting season I barely used it because it just didn't make much sense to me to limit myself to a weaker 30 caliber when I could grab a longer distance gun in same diameter 'just in case'. If I go with a larger bore it feels like if I'm limiting myself in range, it's ok because I have a hammer behind me. A Rossi M92 357 is available at a friend's gunshop and I'm seriously contemplating trading.

I have all the 30-30 reloading equipment and brass as well as 357. It's a hard choice. Should I keep the Marlin 336 or trade for the M92? I thought about other calibers, but I don't have the reloading equipment and brass for others yet.

[jmort]

I have the Rossi 92 .357 with 16" barrel and love it. I like the .30-30 for cast bullets as the neck is so long. For what you describe, and the lack of interest in the .30-30, get the Rossi and enjoy, as it is perfect for what you describe. Mine seems to like bullets around 160 grains +/-

[davidheart]

That's kind of what I'm thinking jmort. "If I'm not even using it should I keep it?" Even though I have 200+ brass for it boolits, etce. I appreciate your feedback. There is another option ..... a Henry .45-70 or M92 44 mag but again, I don't have brass, casting molds, or dies so it's a bit of investment. I didn't think to add it to the above poll because it's a long shot.

[truckjohn]

So... I mean, realistically - a 160 357 mag vs a 160 30-30.... Are you really giving up anything? You can easily run cast up to 180 grains in the 30-30.... There's about a million bullet designs out there for the 30-30 - including some really nasty flat bullets like the 311440 "Hammer 'o Thor"

But - if the 357 mag really makes you happier - then just go for it.... it's going to do just fine...

Thanks

[james nicholson]

A 357 mag is ALMOST as good as a 30-30

[vmathias]

The Rossi Lever action is a pretty darn nice gun. So is the Marlin (if its an older one). Tough choice. I would probably go with the 357 Rossi.

[phonejack]

I have both. My choice is the Marlin without a doubt. I also load 170 gr 30/30 bullets down to 30/30 velocity in my .308. You might consider doing that.

[KLR]

The Rossi is smaller, lighter, and has a shorter lever stroke. It's also less powerful than the 30-30. What is most important to you?

[jmort]

You can get some serious power out of .357 in a rifle

[Denny303]

In the quest to find an affordable 357 lever gun led me to a Rossi R92 , i bought one new 2 years ago. now im far from a perfectionist, but for a $500 gun I wasn't impressed at all with the overall fit and finish, such as butt plate to stock, rough metal edges especially the loading gate area, even the brass bead on the top post of the sight is off center and you can see the top edge of the square post sticking past the right edge of the bead, internal parts are pretty rough as well. it does shoot good, is a versatile caliber, pairs up with my revolvers, and most importantly to me, it handles in ways that only a Winchester can.

Honestly there isn't really anything available cheaper in pistol calibers other than the R92's. Which for the money, is a sad thought, to say the least.

One thing I have noticed regarding the 30-30s is the fact that within the past 10 years, at least in my local market, the prices of older used m94s and marlins have nearly doubled. And while the quality of todays production guns continues to decline, your marlin if older, should continue to hold its value. So id hang on to it. (of course the thought of selling any gun ive ever bought is like heresy, lol )

good luck in whatever you choose to do, stay safe and good shootin............Denny

[davidheart]

.....One thing I have noticed regarding the 30-30s is the fact that within the past 10 years, at least in my local market, the prices of older used m94s and marlins have nearly doubled. And while the quality of todays production guns continues to decline, your marlin if older, should continue to hold its value. So id hang on to it.........

I appreciate your thoughts. My Marlin is a Remlin and has bluing issues. ;)

[mnewcomb59]

It's a brush gun, so I would go with same foot pounds but more bullet diameter - AKA 357. Load your 357 158s with Lil Gun for 1800 fps + at the starting load. If you take it up to max you can get 2000 fps+, and if you go to Buffalo Bore levels you can get almost 2200 fps with 158s.

You will have a much larger meplat with the 357 and can run hard cast. You need to fiddle around with soft alloys and expansion in the thutty thutty. By 200 yards though, the 30-30 is holding more velocity and energy because it is more aerodynamic.

[jmort]

^ What he said except I would use 2400

[500MAG]

Love my Rossi m92 it's a fun gun to shoot. Not one for letting go of guns. I just add on.

[shoot-n-lead]

I would choose the Rossi...I have the Marlins also, but I prefer the Rossi's...just a slicker working little gun, to me.

[dead dog]

If you buy the 357 then you have to get a single action revolver . It never ends.

[taco650]

How much have you really looked at the rifle in your friends gun shop? If you've just eye-balled it from across the counter, then its time to put hands on it, work the action, etc. Bring a small flashlight with you so you can see the inards easier. Remember, sometimes the grass is greener on the other side of the fence but sometimes its just the lighting or the fact that the septic tank is right underneath.

[jaysouth]

If the Rossi's sights are OK for you, go for the Rossi. the .357 is also easier to reload.

If you need glass, the marlin is really your only choice.

Get both, get back to us in a couple of years and tell us which one is best.

[davidheart]

Marlin votes are WAY up!

I could just go crazy and get a 45-70.

[35remington]

I really can't see why a classic "woods" caliber like the 30-30 needs to be passed over for cast bullet use. It's probably at least as suited for cast bullets at full power levels as the 357, has more power potential, increases its lead in power as the bullet goes dowrange, especially with LE ammo if you want to "cheat" and compare its potential with jacketed bullets.

Its long neck enables fairly heavy for caliber bullets that rival that heaviest the .357 carbine can put out. With lightweight cast bullets it can be loaded more cheaply than the .357 can....use a few grains of Bullseye and 32 Smith and Wesson Long pistol bullets that are readily available in several mould designs. Less lead than the .357 uses if desired. No more powder, either.

The throttle of the .30-30 can be adjusted from "meat saving" to "plenty adequate" with cast bullets.

If you want something "big bore" a pistol cartridge with its small case capacity doesn't seem to be it.

If you want a 45-70, I could see that far more than swapping a .357 carbine for a .30-30 carbine. That seems backward to me.

If you want different than a .308, a 45-70 is unquestionably it, getting its energies and effectiveness from big bullets. It's certainly nothing like .357 bullets that average out to be no heavier than .30-30 bullets and go slower.

[MBTcustom]

I have all the lever guns mentioned in this thread. I have a Marlin 30-30, a Rossi 92 in 44mag, and the Marlin 45-70. When it comes to a close shot in heavy brush, my 45-70 guide gun is the rifle I will have if I don't want to hunt with my M1A. The 45-70 Marlin is the only rifle that is in my top three most versitile and powerful rifles for the weight (and I'm a professional gunsmith so I have had hands on just about anything you can dream up).
That said, the Rossi 92 would be my second choice, and after I do an action/trigger job, a 92 is a lead slinging machine.
That said, I voted for the 30-30 in the pol, and I stand by that vote. A marlin 30-30 can be improved upon, but it can never be replaced as a mid range rifle that gets the job done that has an impressive lineup of molds available for it. If you already have the dies and molds, there's no way I would trade it up for a 357 92.
44mag?, maybe.
45-70?, definitely.

35 Remington? In a New York minute and without a second thought!!!!

[Lead Fred]

The m92 design is Soooo inferior to the 336 Marlin there is not comparison. The marlin will out last the Rossi.

Now on caliber. We ring the 200 yard gong with ease with FTX 30-30 rounds. Not so easy with the 44 mag, no where close with the 357.
The 30 cal is moving way faster than either of the pistol calibers mentioned. Energy transfer should show the same at distance.

45/70 is what I use for close in defense. My 1895 Marlin GG is my handgun. The destructive force is unmatched
On the taylor knock down chart a 22 rimfire is a 1, a 12 gauge shotgun 1oz slug at 10 feet is a 53 on the chart.

My 45/70 rounds are a 45 on the chart @ 100 yards.

Makes me feel damn safe

[RPRNY]

35 Remington.

Done.

[jmort]

"45/70 is what I use for close in defense. My 1895 Marlin GG is my handgun. The destructive force is unmatched
On the taylor knock down chart a 22 rimfire is a 1, a 12 gauge shotgun 1oz slug at 10 feet is a 53 on the chart.
My 45/70 rounds are a 45 on the chart @ 100 yards."

Where do people get this nonsense? So much crazy talk. It is not yet legal to marry your .45-70. A top of the line 12 gauge slug will have a Taylor Knock Out Value of 70 at 100 yards and 111 at the outset. The "destructive force," whatever that means, of the .45-70, is lesser, when compared to a serious shotgun slug.

[Lonegun1894]

I would say keep the Marlin, and buy the Rossi. Hunt with both for a year or three, and then decide. I have both, and been trying to decide which I like better for 5-6 years now. All I have figured out is that I like the Rossi .357 if shots are going to be inside 125-150 yards, and the Marlin .30-30 if shots are going to be inside 225 yds. Now most of my shots are well inside 100 yards, so I guess I will have to keep testing both til I decide. The Rossi is lighter to carry, it that is a concern for you, but the Marlin is easier to mount a scope on. Just get both if possible.

[taco650]

davidheart,

The 45-70 would be a better trade IMO than the Rossi 357. I know you said $$$'s are limited so whatever you do, be a good steward of your resources.

[mnewcomb59]

I really can't see why a classic "woods" caliber like the 30-30 needs to be passed over for cast bullet use. It's probably at least as suited for cast bullets at full power levels as the 357, has more power potential, increases its lead in power as the bullet goes dowrange, especially with LE ammo if you want to "cheat" and compare its potential with jacketed bullets.

Its long neck enables fairly heavy for caliber bullets that rival that heaviest the .357 carbine can put out. With lightweight cast bullets it can be loaded more cheaply than the .357 can....use a few grains of Bullseye and 32 Smith and Wesson Long pistol bullets that are readily available in several mould designs. Less lead than the .357 uses if desired. No more powder, either.

The throttle of the .30-30 can be adjusted from "meat saving" to "plenty adequate" with cast bullets.

If you want something "big bore" a pistol cartridge with its small case capacity doesn't seem to be it.

If you want a 45-70, I could see that far more than swapping a .357 carbine for a .30-30 carbine. That seems backward to me.

If you want different than a .308, a 45-70 is unquestionably it, getting its energies and effectiveness from big bullets. It's certainly nothing like .357 bullets that average out to be no heavier than .30-30 bullets and go slower.


The 357, especially the Rossi has a better twist rate for cast bullets. Marlin 30-30s have a twist rate fast enough for 240 grain bullets, AKA way too hard on softer, plain base lead. Once you're at a decent forwards velocity, you're putting so much rotational torque on the bullet that the front driving band is getting deformed and accuracy is going down, even if your gas check is stopping leading.

You will be working hard at working up loads with 50/50+2% with gas checks in the 30-30 to just barely get 2000 fps and hope to get a little accuracy and a little expansion. Winchester 30-30s are definitely cast bullet friendly, but not necessarily fast twist microgroove Marlins especially when compared to the Rossi 357.

Seriously, take a water dropped wheel weight lee 158 RF. Tumble lube it. Just over 1 inch groups at 100 yards for me up to 1900 fps using 17 grains of Lil Gun and PLAIN BASE. This is with still wind, discounting fliers, rested, etc. I'm no great rifle shot so that's about all the better I can ever shoot. 3" groups at a little over 2000 fps with 19 grains (Brian Pearce load data). I did have to shoot a few firelapping shots to smooth tooling marks, but even though the barrel still isn't perfect, it don't lead and it SHOOTS. This is just a quick visual sort of the bullets, no weighing.

Put 'er 3" high at 100, its dead on at 150, and 6" low at 200. At 200 yards, your 158 is still doing 1300 fps and I woudn't want to be in front of it. Someone said their 357 won't hit anything at 200 yards, well they're obviously using reduced loads or don't have their zero set up for max point blank range. Most likely they're zeroed at 25 or 50 yards and don't have any mid-range lob. Come on people, your forefathers lobbed 45-70s at 1300 fps at buffalo at 600 yards, why would a 2000 fps rifle not hit at 200 yards?

That 30" round ball twist really has a hand in this. the 357 Rossi won't shoot a 200 grain bullet, telling me these mid weight bullets are just about perfectly stabilized. In fact, a stability factor calculation shows 158s at 1000 fps as 1.5 - exactly enough rotation for stabilization. This means the bullet is deforming more front to back than side to side - aka the lube groove can pump, while the drive bands are holding tight due to low stress. http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi

The 30-30 with a 10" twist is putting more deforming stress on the drive bands than the lube groove. Taking a rough guess at 1.1 inches long for a 170, the 30-30 has a stability factor calculation of 3, meaning it is way over spun. This means you will need hard alloy and gas check for best accuracy, and middling accuracy with soft-enough-to-deform alloy and a gas check. No accuracy plain base anywhere close to full power. 32 special would be a much better small bore caliber.



What does it matter how big the case is? Smaller case is better (if same power) because more shots on deck in a lever gun.

Why would you think a 30-30 would be cheaper to shoot plinking bullets than 38 or 357? Bullets cost the same and can be had from 95 grains and up. The 30 30 case is bigger, so same weight bullet at same speed will take MORE powder and cost more. You're looking at at least 5-6 grains of powder for a plinker in 30-30, while 3.2 grains of powder is plinking in a 38. Then at the upper end, you need 30 grains of powder for 1600 foot pounds in the 30-30, but only 19 grains of powder for 1600 foot pounds in the 357.

If you want to push the 357, it will do everything a 30-30 can do, and it can probably do all the way up to 95% of a 30-30 with plain base. You will need gas checks and most likely settle for a less-than-max load with the 30-30 anyways, giving no power or range advantage, and a money disadvantage from gas checks and 1.5x the powder. Our OP already said its a less than 100 yard gun, so 30-30 aerodynamics and leverevolution doesn't matter. Besides, have you seen ACTUAL chrono results from LE ammo? 357 boutique has more foot pounds in 16 inch, same in a 20".

[LIMPINGJ]

Keep the Marlin and send it to Jess for a rebore to 38-55 or 375 Win. Less money than a new Rossi.

[.30-06 fan]

357 or consider the 44 magnum, they are also very frugal on powder.

[davidheart]

.....Our OP already said its a less than 100 yard gun, so 30-30 aerodynamics and leverevolution doesn't matter. Besides, have you seen ACTUAL chrono results from LE ammo? 357 boutique has more foot pounds in 16 inch, same in a 20".

Yep it's true. This gun I would take to a few hunting spots I know where a scope is annoying at best. <100 yard shots all around and the rare 150 yard shot if I'm sitting in one position and the odd black bear runs in front of me (happened this past year....). But 95% of the shots with this gun will be less than 100 yards and through dense brush.

I plan on it being strictly cast boolits. And there is a Marlin 35 Remington for $450... but it's micro-groove and as I understand micro-groove is a pain for cast boolits. They were in my 30-30 at least until I found a load that groups 1 inch at 100 yards.

The Henry 45-70 is a little over $600. Both are brand new. The .45-70 is much spoken about around here but rarely shot that I know of. I only know 3 people who shoot it and 1 is a friend of mine. (A friend who is hard to get a hold of so I doubt I'd be able to 'test fire' anytime in the next month or so) He owns 4 45-70's if I remember correctly.

I've never shot 35 Remington and I don't understand it's huge following although I've caught wind of it on these forums.

[jmort]

Since all the suggestions will work well, .357 mag, .30-30, .44 mag, .45-70, it really becomes a personal choice. I don't see a bad choice being suggested.

[davidheart]

Since all the suggestions will work well, .357 mag, .30-30, .44 mag, .45-70, it really becomes a personal choice. I don't see a bad choice being suggested.

But my deer have armor plating and large teeth. :) :)

[MaLar]

I have a B92 in 357 and love it.
It can be a serious hunting gun or the perfect plinker.
You can always find 357 brass, and bullets are easy and cheep to cast.
Have taken mine deer hunting with Speer 158 soft points.
I did a little experiment once. I friend and I shot into a bucket packed full of sand.
Laid the bucket on it's side and shot in to the bottom.
I used the Speer bullets my friend was using a 6mm Rem.

When we where done we dug the bullets from the sand.
My friends 6mm disintegrated in the sand didn't find but jacket bitts.
The Speer bullets penetrated almost through the bucket.
Came to a stop just inches from coming out and lost almost no weight.

I've bagged lots of Pine hens with it.

Would be the last rifle that leaves my possession.

[35remington]

Quite frankly I'll believe a Rossi averaging one inch at 100 when I see it and not before then. Given I was recently shooting 88 grain 32 long bullets at 1020 fps from a 308 with 3.5 grains Bullseye and a 30-30 will equal that speed with even less powder it's pretty evident a 30-30 can be shot just as cheaply as a 357 can. So stating was hardly an exaggeration.

While a cast shooting micro groove 30-30 is not an inch group shooter at 100 yards, for under 100 yard ranges a 2-3 inch rifle at 100 is vastly adequate for woods use. Wheelweights upset down to 1300 fps impact velocities and no great alchemy is required to attain such accuracy which is of a practical useful and attainable sort in a rifle that is currently owned. This very adequate level of accuracy will not require onerous load development.

If "big bore" characteristics are truly desired having a 357 attempt to fill the bill is coming up short in the "big" part of the equation. This is why another caliber substitution makes more sense than a .357.

If it is arguable whether something is a good swap for accomplishing one's aims.........it ain't. More oomph and separation from the 30-30 and 308 is the OP's stated goal and a 357 carbine doesn't do that.

Keep in mind this is just opinion and the fate of the world does not hang in the balance.

[Swede44mag]

A friend of mine shot two does last winter with his Ruger bolt action .357 mag I helped him clean and skin both they had been shot in the shoulder they both had a lot of blood shot meat and both were bang flops. I had a Browning lever action .357 years ago it was top eject I needed money to work on the house so I sold it. The Browning was a lot of fun.

[mnewcomb59]

Quite frankly I'll believe a Rossi averaging one inch at 100 when I see it and not before then. Given I was recently shooting 88 grain 32 long bullets at 1020 fps from a 308 with 3.5 grains Bullseye and a 30-30 will equal that speed with even less powder it's pretty evident a 30-30 can be shot just as cheaply as a 357 can. So stating was hardly an exaggeration.

While a cast shooting micro groove 30-30 is not an inch group shooter at 100 yards, for under 100 yard ranges a 2-3 inch rifle at 100 is vastly adequate for woods use. Wheelweights upset down to 1300 fps impact velocities and no great alchemy is required to attain such accuracy which is of a practical useful and attainable sort in a rifle that is currently owned. This very adequate level of accuracy will not require onerous load development.

If "big bore" characteristics are truly desired having a 357 attempt to fill the bill is coming up short in the "big" part of the equation. This is why another caliber substitution makes more sense than a .357.

If it is arguable whether something is a good swap for accomplishing one's aims.........it ain't. More oomph and separation from the 30-30 and 308 is the OP's stated goal and a 357 carbine doesn't do that.

Keep in mind this is just opinion and the fate of the world does not hang in the balance.

For some reason I still don't think you'll believe, but here's me tryin. I usually don't save targets or I would have more examples to show.
132997

This spring I'm gonna work on the 18.6 grain load and 1 step higher and see if I can get them to tighten up with weight sorting, matched brass, you know all the tricks. That target shows vertical stringing, a common problem with scout scopes and their parallax issues. It was at the end of the day and I was getting a bit sore (yeah the 357 starts barking a bit up around 2000 fps) and a bit of eye strain and I must not have had the crosshairs perfectly centered in the scope, giving some parallax that caused the vertical stringing. 17.4 shoots just as good as 16.1.

This is just bulk handgun PLAIN BASE ammo. Lil gun meters great though, and I have seen multiple people getting SD of around 10 in rifle barrels, ES less than 30.

I did firelap about 20 shots, relieve the slight tight spot in the forearm that was pressing into the barrel (2 mins with some 220 grit), and I recrowned the muzzle after the rifle blew off the rifle stand at the range (really windy day) and landed smack dab on the muzzle on brushed concrete. If you can call that accurizing, this is a slightly accurized Rossi putting out respectable groups with $4/50 rounds bulk handgun ammo.

I'll write this here one more time. With the 30-30, you will NEED gas checks. And, you will probably settle for a less-than-max load anyways, giving no power or range advantage over 357, and a money disadvantage from gas checks and 1.5x the powder.

[35remington]

Thanks for the attempt. What really dispells doubt and makes an average look like an average is multiple small groups on the same target. Just my own perspective on the matter. I rarely see those, but if they were truly representative of what the gun would do they would be easy to make happen......multiple times on the same target.

I suppose the OP needs to define his desires and what is acceptable. At woods ranges a great deal of accuracy is not necessary. Given that a cartridge of lesser power than a .308 (30-30) seems to him to be going in the wrong direction my immediate thought is.....why does a .357 seem better as an alternative? If a 30-30 is somehow lacking at woods ranges a .357 carbine does not seem likely to make up for this perceived deficit.

[MT Chambers]

Despite what some amateur ballisticians on here say, stand the rounds or cases beside each other, easy to see that the 30/30 is in another league from the .357. Now the choice between the .30/30 and the .44 Mag. is a diff. argument.

[jmort]

Here we go again with the "logic" of more is more better. Professional ballisticians know that dead is dead. Really, anything short of the 700 Nitro Express is inadequate because if you put a .30-30 next to a 700 NE you can see they are in different leagues.

[mnewcomb59]

I'm amateur (or professional) enough to know that the same weight at the same speed is the same power. How complicated do you think it is lol?

I'm also amateur (or professional) enough to know that if I have a choice with same weight, same speed, but one bullet is bigger, I will take the bigger bullet for woods hunting.

[35remington]

I am not sure it's so much a matter of "more is better"......rather, it's more why a .357 gives anything a 30-30 cannot already do.

The OP's statement on the matter helps to explain.

Here's the problem, quote:

"If I go with a larger bore it feels like if I'm limiting myself in range, it's ok because I have a hammer behind me."

Presumably he means if it's range limited the larger caliber at least makes it hit harder. What's mystifying is why, exactly, one would judge a .357 as hitting harder when in fact it shoots bullets no heavier than a 30-30 at somewhat slower velocities?

In comparison to a 30-30 I'd hardly classify a .357 as being in the "hammer" category. That's giving five hundredths of an inch of bullet diameter way too much credit.

His desires are (somewhat) clearly expressed....the ability to attain them is questionable given his stated alternative (the .357).

[mnewcomb59]

I like the 357 in place of 30-30 because its easier to reload, uses less powder, and doesn't need a gas check high speeds. It pretty much comes out cheaper and easier to reload, but gives up ballistic coefficient.

The 357 meplat is just a few hundredths wider, but nearly double the square inches of a 30-30 meplat. When you think in terms of square inches of meplat, they go up exponentially with caliber. This means it doesn't need any expansion because it has a good meplat and middling sectional density. It uses up all its energy over about 3 foot, perfect for hunting.

So yeah, 357 isn't a "hammer" any more than the 30-30, but cheaper and easier to reload with cast at pretty much the same power level. The 30-30 might have 1000 foot pounds at 200 yards and the 357 only has 800. Before that distance though, the 357 kills the same or better because same (or maybe a tiny bit less) velocity, but wider meplat. Thumb sized hole clean through a deer on any angle. If your .2 meplat on your 150 grain bullet fails to upset, you will have a teeeeeeny hole in a deer compared to a .29 meplat at about the same speed.

Plus, once your 30-30 does expand, you have to balance it perfectly so you still have enough penetration. 30-30 will be more work all around - from resizing necks, fitting gas checks, sizing on gas checks, ladder testing, alloy testing, terminal testing. Or you could stick a .29 meplat hard cast in your easy-reloading straight wall case and go hunting.

[35remington]

If I wanted to make some kind of point, I'm sure you realize that with LE powder and the 160 LE bullet....a boattail spire point....any claims for .357 superiority at any range are meaningless because they aren't factual. Both powder and bullet make for a very clear lead for 30-30 carbine power and range over the .357 carbine. Comparisons of the sort that clearly establish the very real 30-30 superiority when both cartridges are optimized don't matter either because this is about under 100 yard ranges.

The ideal of the .357 producing a "wider wound" is very, very arguable.

What is still the mystery of the moment is why the OP expressed a desire for a "hammer" and thinks a .357 is it, or offers anything the 30-30 cannot already do.

I think the correct answer is that another cartridge is needed to accomplish the stated goal. Since I really don't have anything more substantive to add until the OP clarifies why he believes what seems like a questionable premise is the answer to his problems I don't really need to say much more.

[mnewcomb59]

The 30-30 is far superior when considering 24-26 inch barrels. However, even with LE powder, there is 0 difference in the 16 inch barrel and about 100 fps in the 20". In the 20" barrel LE ammo does 2300 fps, Buffalo Bore 357 158 is 2150.

But my other point is a fact - bigger meplat at same weight and velocity is wider, but shorter wound. Ever see Marshall Stanton's charts in his book? A .22 meplat at 1800 fps makes 1.1 inch wound. A .28 meplat at 1800 fps makes 1.4 inch wide wound. Given the fact that the meplat differences are generally greater than that between the two calibers, my point definitely stands. Even if the 357 hit 200 fps slower, it would make the same width wound as the 30-30.

If the 30-30 shooter wanted to match the 357 damage, he would have to have a carefully constructed bullet that expanded, but stopped well short of 40 cal. Maybe 20 grains of pure lead in the nose and the rest wheel weights.
If he got a full mushroom, he could expect half the penetration of the 357.

[35remington]

mnew, it's not as hard as you make out. Cast bullet of wheelweights plus a little tin, affix a gascheck, run it in the 2000 fps vicinity and go hunting. It's not at all hard.

Apparently it's so difficult that the 30-30 regularly gets used in exactly that way here. Read the past posts on the matter.

[35remington]

Even with the velocity loss the 30-30 is still well ahead.

Marshall Stanton's charts are......charts. And quite open to question.

Disregarding all the minutiae, the question of why the .357 is perceived as having "hammer" characteristics still remains. Let's leave it at that until we get some clarification. The perception seems erroneous to me, and apparently to you as well.

[mnewcomb59]

Marshall Stanton's charts are......charts. And quite open to question.




Question this - would a larger meplat make a smaller wound at the same speed? Of course it won't make exactly a 1.421001" wound every time in every critter, but in his testing medium he saw that maximum wound diameter could be predicted by meplat and velocity, and his tests have proven repeatable.

We're having such a good discussion, please don't discount charts because they're a piece of paper.

[.30-06 fan]

The 357 takes up less space uses less powder and is simple to reload. Kills deer at 100 yards.

It's a no-brainer.

Dead is dead.

[35remington]

Trouble is, an expanding bullet.....and a 30-30 is most definitely expansion capable under 100 yards at cast bullet attainable speeds....makes all the discussion about meplats pretty meaningless.

So proselytize for 'ol bald Marshall all you want, but a 30-30 does not have to kill by meplat alone, nor should it be expected to at the ranges discussed here. Since meplat is meaningless to expanding 30-30 bullets, so are Marshall's charts in any comparison of the two calibers.

[mnewcomb59]

Trouble is, an expanding bullet.....and a 30-30 is most definitely expansion capable under 100 yards at cast bullet attainable speeds....makes all the discussion about meplats pretty meaningless.

So proselytize for 'ol bald Marshall all you want, but a 30-30 does not have to kill by meplat alone, nor should it be expected to at the ranges discussed here.

By the time you are making a wound the size of the 357, you are penetrating less.

EDIT: Okay let me rephrase. If the 30-30 has 5% more foot pounds it can make a little more total wound. Once the wound is noticably bigger than the 357 hard cast, you are definitely penetrating less. You are applying pretty much the same foot pounds over a shorter depth.

Hard cast with a good meplat plain works independent of velocity. Smaller hole when slower, slightly bigger hole when faster. When you depend on expansion, you can have over expansion when the shot is too close, and no expansion when the shot is further. Your working window might be 50 to 125 yards and outside of that the bullet will pinhole or over expand.

There is a happy point where you could be making a slightly bigger wound for the same depth, or the same sized wound for a little deeper, but this is the boolit voodoo I'm talking about where you have to test to be sure. There are also many alloys that will pinhole or varmint grenade and you have to have a jug/wetpack/gel tested alloy in the 30-30 for best wounding. The 357 plain works with simple water dropping range scrap or wheelweights because it has the better sectional density at expense of ballistic coefficient.

[35remington]

Questionable. We'll leave it at that.

[cainttype]

So I'm having a bit of a dilemma for a brush gun, lead only. Now, I have the 308 is for longer ranges, but for under 100 yards having another 30 caliber, but weaker, feels like a bit of redundancy.

For shorter ranges I think I'd prefer a larger bore lead-only gun. I have the 30-30 Marlin I use as lead only but I noticed this last hunting season I barely used it because it just didn't make much sense to me to limit myself to a weaker 30 caliber when I could grab a longer distance gun in same diameter 'just in case'. If I go with a larger bore it feels like if I'm limiting myself in range, it's ok because I have a hammer behind me. A Rossi M92 357 is available at a friend's gunshop and I'm seriously contemplating trading.


Both choices are more than adequate for short range deer-sized game when properly loaded.
I really enjoy the light, handy '92 style rifles for all-around fun. After seeing that the OP "barely" uses the 30-30 Marlin he already has (and doesn't seem inclined to change), it appears that he might actually be able to enjoy the Rossi... I say trade for something that you'll appreciate and use as often as possible.
The 357 Rossi appears to be the obvious choice for the man that's asking.

It's bigger than a tack-hammer, although quite a bit smaller than a sledge-hammer... Everybody should enjoy having something that size in their toolbox. :)

[jmort]

"So proselytize for 'ol bald Marshall all you want..."

Let me see, Marshall Stanton or 35 Remington? One widely admired, running a successful hard cast bullet business, for a long time, and the other seems to troll and have no bona fides. Tough choice, but I will stick with Marshall.

[davidheart]

Traded my Remlin with a friend who wanted a Marlin for his Winchester 94 30-30 plus $150.

Going to keep the 30-30 caliber in a more cast boolit friendly gun. (read, not micro-groove) ;)

Now.... the $150 is going to be put back into a sledgehammer.... I have my eyes hard on a .45-70.

Can't think of another woods sledgehammer to fit the bill at the moment. ;)

[jmort]

You made a great choice. The .30-30 is so very cast friendly. I would take a Winchester 94 any day. Now for the .45-70, too much recoil/pain for me in a lever gun.

[davidheart]

You made a great choice. The .30-30 is so very cast friendly. I would take a Winchester 94 any day. Now for the .45-70, too much recoil/pain for me in a lever gun.

Thank you. It was not an easy choice.

I've heard rumor of pain from the .45-70. Is it harsher than the 7mm Rem Mag and 8mm Mauser? They were not too bad but people told me both of those calibers are horrible on your shoulder.

[cainttype]

In '92 and '94 type actions, depending on your criteria... 41 Mag, 44 Mag, 45 Colt, 454 Casull in pistol-length '92s, and 356 Win, 38-55, 375 Win, 444 Marlin, 450 Marlin, to name some I've seen in the '94s and Marlins ... I imagine there are 475s and 500s out there, but I haven't seen any.
I'm willing to bet I've even left someone's favorite out, too. :)

[KLR]

Hmmm... My son's Marlin shoots cast great whereas my Winchester 94 has an abrupt throat and has been a total pain. His is more accurate and I had to modify the cartridge guides on mine before it would feed reliably.

You'll just have to see how your 94 works for you. Why did your friend want to get rid of it?

[davidheart]

...Why did your friend want to get rid of it?

My Marlin was set up with a scout scope and he liked the setup. He's been eyeing my rifle since hunting season because of it. I honestly couldn't get myself used to the scout setup and it was a pain with cast boolits. Shoots Remington Core-Lokts beautifully though, but I didn't want it for Core Lokts, I wanted it for cast. :)

I certainly hope I don't have feed issues, but at least I won't have Microgroove issues. :)

Maybe a 50BMG for a woods rifle? It shoots cast right?

[Lonegun1894]

Despite what some amateur ballisticians on here say, stand the rounds or cases beside each other, easy to see that the 30/30 is in another league from the .357. Now the choice between the .30/30 and the .44 Mag. is a diff. argument.

There's a HUGE difference between studying paper ballistics, or just looking at two rounds side by side on your coffee table, and actually going out and using them both to take game like some of us do. Now if actual use in the field makes us amateurs, then I guess I'd rather be an "amateur" than a professional.

[Bzcraig]

You made a great choice. The .30-30 is so very cast friendly. I would take a Winchester 94 any day. Now for the .45-70, too much recoil/pain for me in a lever gun.

He he took the words out of my mouth!

[TXGunNut]

I have Marlins in 30-30, 35 Rem and 45-70. I'd like to have a Rossi in 357 someday but will never trade one of my Marlins for it. I doubt seriously a deer inside of 100 yards properly shot with a suitable load from either rifle would ever know the difference so either gun would work fine for your intended purpose. OTOH if you don't like your Marlin and won't take it hunting you might as well trade it off. If you're wanting a pistol cartridge levergun to use for a "hammer" I think the 44 Mag or possibly 45 Colt would be a better choice but that would apparently involve mould, brass and die purchases. Hate it when that happens. ;-)

[303Guy]

Sounds like a great swap, in my books anyway. Otherwise I was going to cast my vote for a 35 Remington. Heck, my Dad used to hunt Cape Buffalo with a 35 Remington! One day he shot two with one bullet. The bullet went through the heart of the first one, hit no bone on its pass through and broke the shoulder of the unseen buffalo behind the first. He's braver than I am! You don't shoot buffalo with a 35 Remington at long ranges! The second buffalo needed to be shot again.

[freebullet]

I've never been impressed with anything that said rossi on it. I've owned a couple, started a few youngsters out with a 410/'22 combo. Their revolvers are not something I'd want.

[Pilgrim]

With JES reportedly doing good work, the .35-30 is another option. It solves 2 of your Marlin issues. First, the caliber issue, and second it eliminates the microgroove issue. FWIW Pilgrim

[davidheart]

With JES reportedly doing good work, the .35-30 is another option. It solves 2 of your Marlin issues. First, the caliber issue, and second it eliminates the microgroove issue. FWIW Pilgrim

I seriously considered the .35-30. That way I won't lose all my 30-30 brass (about 250 pieces plus loaded ammunition too) and I would have a larger boolit and the ability to use small 158gr pistol boolits to plink/small game with. However the only reloading dies I found were the Redding set on Midway for $200! So $200 for the rebore, $200 for the reloading dies? Ouch and no thank you.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/467842/redding-2-die-set-35-30-30-winchester

[KLR]

However the only reloading dies I found were the Redding set on Midway for $200!


$83.20 here: http://www.ch4d.com/

[Blammer]

have you thought about a 444marlin?

[davidheart]

I have thought about it. I think about a lot of things. :)

[220]

Have marlins in 357, 30/30 and 45/70 had a Rossi in 44 for a while as well.
I love my 357 but wouldn't get rid of my 30/30 to own one.
I found myself going the opposite way to you, started taking my 30/30 more and more in preference to my 7mm Rem Mag, have shot the 30/30 out to 700y on steel. Rarely sees cast for anything other than plinking but with J word it will shoot moa, flat enough to hold dead on medium game to a bit past 200 and a 300y shot isn't out of the question. 99% of my hunting is less than 200y so 7mm now has a new home.
45/70 is my main lead hunting rifle, still very effective even when driven at moderate velocity and pleasant to shoot.
If the 30/30 has to go and your sold on a Rossi for hunting with lead, then the 454 might be the best option.

[sparky45]

I agree with your choices, but I would also include the 44-40. I have a Rossi in 44-40 with a 24" Hex barrel that I absolutely love.
S45



I have Marlins in 30-30, 35 Rem and 45-70. I'd like to have a Rossi in 357 someday but will never trade one of my Marlins for it. I doubt seriously a deer inside of 100 yards properly shot with a suitable load from either rifle would ever know the difference so either gun would work fine for your intended purpose. OTOH if you don't like your Marlin and won't take it hunting you might as well trade it off. If you're wanting a pistol cartridge levergun to use for a "hammer" I think the 44 Mag or possibly 45 Colt would be a better choice but that would apparently involve mould, brass and die purchases. Hate it when that happens. ;-)

[TXGunNut]

I agree with your choices, but I would also include the 44-40. I have a Rossi in 44-40 with a 24" Hex barrel that I absolutely love.
S45


Personally I'd prefer the 38-40 or 44-40 but my tastes, like yours, are a bit off the beaten path. I prefer the old correct BP cartridges even though I have dies for 43 Mag and 45 Colt and plenty of moulds for the 45 Colt. Most days I don't recall having a 43 (and generally won't admit it ;-) ) but I know it's a popular caliber with many good boolit designs.

[Centaur 1]

Traded my Remlin with a friend who wanted a Marlin for his Winchester 94 30-30 plus $150.

Going to keep the 30-30 caliber in a more cast boolit friendly gun. (read, not micro-groove) ;)

The 94 is friendlier on cast boolits, but not because of the style of rifling. I've never had any problems with micro-groove and cast boolits that are properly sized. The real advantage with the Winchester is the twist rate, it has 1-12" versus the Marlins 1-10". There's not much difference under 2000 fps, but the slower twist rate makes it easier to find success when you start pushing 2200 fps. My Marlins top out between 2175 and 2200 fps, then my groups open up to the point where it doesn't make sense. I've been getting 1/2" to 3/4" groups at 50 yards at 2175 fps, at 2200 fps the group will open up to 1.25", and at 2225 fps I get 2.5" groups. That 50 fps doesn't help you when group size quadruples. I also have a Rio Grande in 30-30 and it has standard rifling with a 12" twist like the Winchester. When I do my part the Marlin is the more accurate rifle, but the Rossi seems to shoot good no matter what load I use.

[redbullitt]

Really like the rossi 357 for an all around fun gun. I have not hunted with it, but it shoots well enough AND I shoot it enough that I would grab it without hesitation. Handles great, seems to love cast bullets, HANDLES GREAT, and is plenty accurate for anything I would ever do with it.

As far as your trade... I am not sure I would do it. Couple reasons. First off, you can load the 30 30 down to act just like the 357 at any of its power levels. Cant quite do that with the 357.

I had to do a lot of messing with the rossi to get it were it needed to be... it was a pain. Your 30 30 is already running good I assume, so for me that would be a big pause for thought. You will also have to be a bit pickier about your shots with the 357 compared to the 30 30, but not so much that I would shy away from it. After all, you said you have a bigger hammer to use if you need to work at longer ranges.

I shoot a lot of 357 and 38s, so the rossi gets out to shoot all the time and makes much more sense for me. I gave the 30 30 to my dad to hunt with since I basically replaced it with the 357 carbine.

Saw mention of sights on the rossi, Steves guns makes a nifty little peep sight that replaces that goofy safety lever. I really like mine, though it is a bit more wobbly than I would like. Might be worth a look.

[taco650]

With JES reportedly doing good work, the .35-30 is another option. It solves 2 of your Marlin issues. First, the caliber issue, and second it eliminates the microgroove issue. FWIW Pilgrim


I seriously considered the .35-30. That way I won't lose all my 30-30 brass (about 250 pieces plus loaded ammunition too) and I would have a larger boolit and the ability to use small 158gr pistol boolits to plink/small game with. However the only reloading dies I found were the Redding set on Midway for $200! So $200 for the rebore, $200 for the reloading dies? Ouch and no thank you.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/467842/redding-2-die-set-35-30-30-winchester

Could JES modify a set of 30-30 dies to when he does the barrel? Probably so but that might be even more $$$ than ordering them from midway. Nevermind, my mind is wandering again. Moot point anyway since you've just declared the 45-70 the choice of your affections.

[Gunnut 45/454]

I have both a Marlin 357 '94 CBL and a Real Marlin 336W 30-30! I got into the 30-30 after picking up a ton of brass -so I had to have a gun to shoot it. Got the 357 mag for the wife as she is a petite woman and didn't like the recoil of the 30-30 for deer hunting. Both are mostly shot with cast loads both are more then capable of being used as Brush guns though mine are scoped for my aging eyes. I'm confused by the OP's comment though? The 30-30 is not a WEAK cartridge ! With range limits it's more then capable of taking anything in the lower 48! It has been used on everything! The 357 mag is also capable of the same with more range limits. Would I hunt Griz or Brown with either -probably not! But then again folk hunt them with bows! They are braver then I!

[A pause for the COZ]

Ok I am gona add my two bits. mainly because I have both of these guns.
I have a 1958 marlin 30-30 with Ballard rifling and a Rossi M92 in 357 mag.

I purchased the M92 to be my brush gun since my Son owned into my 30-30.

It was not successful for me. For the M92 I wanted to use heavier cast bullets 180 gr.
I could not and have not ever been able to get these bullets to stabilize out of the 1-30 twist Rossi.
The Rossi is optimized for lighter bullets. 125hr LEE rnfp's are very very accurate 100 plus yards.
158gr shoot ok to 50 yards they really start to open up at 100 yards.
the 180's I cant keep on a pie plate at 100 yards and they tumble.

Not saying it cant be done. Just going to take allot of work to find the right bullet and the right velocity to get them to stabilize.

I gave up and Purchased a Marlin Model 1941 in 32Win special for my Brush gun for cast loads and a AR10 carbine in 308 win for a faster load.

If you really want a 357 for a brush gun. i think a Marlin lever in 357 would be a better choice. It has a 1-16 twist rate.

[Gunnut 45/454]

A pause
I haven't shot anything over 158 gr out of mine either - not even sure what the twist rate is on my Marlin CBL. Now the 158 gr will group just fine out to as far as I want or would shoot game. Easily an honest 2" grouper at 100 yards about 4" at 150 yards which is more then accurate enough for deer and such.

[BAGTIC]

"...increases its lead in power as the bullet goes downrange,.."

How much "downrange" is there in woods hunting?

[Ramslammer]

G'Day
I voted for the 30/30 BUT if I'd known the Mighty .35 REM was in the mix there wouldn't of been any other choice!!! My 35's make me happy every time I use them.
Juddy

[pappy4]

Just my 2 cents. I only own 4 rifles 2 are 30-30 1 in 32win spcl and my rem 30-06 Over the years my 32 Winchester has taken more white tailed deer than all the others put together. On the 50 acrs of ground my family owns there is a lot of black berry bushes inter mixed with oak, ash, walnut, cherry, and maple trees. Its thick thats why the deer love it here. Most shots are under 150 yrds. ( 150 is pushing it ) Just for the fact you cant see any farther than that.I do hunt on the farm next to us for a lot longer shots but I carry the 06 for them.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

I really like my Rossi 92. It's Stainless with a 16" barrel. Very handy and light. Fits perfect in a shotgun scabbard. I replaced the rear sight with a Skinner peep. With the stock front brass bead it gets on target fast.

The main reason this gun is great for brush is that it's cheap. If you scratch the stainless you can buff it out, the wood is cheap so who cares. Rest it up against a tree or drag it around. The wood came real dry. All I did was add some oil and wax to buff and shine it up.

I've got a Henry Big Boy that would make a great under 100yards gun. I shoot it the better than anything else with iron sights, but I wouldn't dare drag it out to my snowy tree stand. It's a work of art! Save the dirty work for the Rossi.

It's a great little rifle that can be had under $400.

[pewpewpewco]

I've got a threaded Rossi 92 in 357 magnum.

My only complaint is that the 1:30 barrel twist is too slow for shooting many subsonic loads. But a nice quiet suppressed package for sure!

[Lonegun1894]

pewpewpewco,
You wouldn't happen to have photos by any chance, or maybe share more details? That sounds like a very practical and unusual package. I want to say there's someone else around here with a suppressed levergun, but I can't remember who.

[davidheart]

A buddy of mine has one of these ugly things: http://www.mossberg.com/product/rifles-lever-action-centerfire-mossberg-464-spx/41026

He loves the suppressed levergun concept. I have mixed feelings about a suppressed levergun. It's.... weird.... [smilie=1:

[Lonegun1894]

David, I do too. I mean, it just goes against all tradition--kinda like putting a scope on a levergun. On the other hand, can you think of a quicker and better suited action to do this with that will allow equal reliability? Don't get me wrong, single-shots and bolt-actions have their place, but the lever-action just has versatility that the others can't match.

[Texas by God]

Horsepower. 30-30. I have both and nothing you can put in the .357 will equal the 30-30. The Marlin wins out over the Rossi in my opinion. Best, Thomas.

[Orchard6]

I've used both and both have filled tags. I've had better luck with the .357 and cast boolits than with the 30-30 and store bought rounds (I didn't reload at the time when I had the 30-30). Obviously either one will work. If you're dead sure you'll never need the extra oomph provided by the 30-30 for those longer shots then a .357 will work just dandy.

[armprairie]

I have both, but the 30-30 Micro-groove Marlin would get my nod. I have the large loop Rossi 16" barrel. It's a very well made rifle, never failed or jammed once. But it's almost too light. The Marlin is more accurate, having a scope, sometimes getting 1" groups at 100 yards with cast bullets, especially the Loverin and Lee 175 or 180's. Both are dandy. That 357 picks up a lot in the carbine. The sights on the Rossi carbine work well for me even with my old eyes, which is unusual. If I knew the shot would be within 25 yards, I might take the Rossi. The weight of the Marlin balances better for me though, even with the Weaver 3-9 on it.
A person does well to have both, after all the lever action is America's gun.

[castalott]

Slight change.... Which gun fits you better in the field? You will probably shoot the best with that one.... Which one do you like the best?

I like 357 carbines but 336 full sized rifles hold better and shoot better for me in the field...

I know a passionate deer hunter... He has used everything you can think of from Bows to 44 mag to 45-70 (pistols) . He always took heart shots and some deer can run 50+ yards with their heart shot away. Some deer drop and some deer run....

Both have enough power for short range hunting if you do your part..... I would carry the gun that felt the most comfortable and fun....


But that's just me....

[RU shooter]

Send the 30-30 out and have it rebored to .358 with 16 twist .35 30/30 Best of both worlds . It be half the price of a new .357 carbine

[dverna]

pewpewpewco,
You wouldn't happen to have photos by any chance, or maybe share more details? That sounds like a very practical and unusual package. I want to say there's someone else around here with a suppressed levergun, but I can't remember who.

I believe Artful has one

[Ramjet-SS]

Comparatively speaking the 30-30 wins on performance alone. Now let's step back and talk about versitility. The 357 less expensive to shoot and the brass Requires less care as far as trimming etc.. In fact straight wall cases last and last and last. Think about using that gun for self defense or defensive scenario in your own home. I would choose the 357 because the idea of over penetration putting family members or even the neighbors in danger is a plausible possibility with the 30-30 not so much with a 38 special fired in the Rossi. A nice carbine in 357/38special is a handy self defense rifle. Now for short range hunting the 357 with a 180 grain cast bullet is formidable and lethal weapon in the hands of well schooled rifleman. Recoil.....357 has less. 38 special even less. Sure you load down the 30-30 but air space is not your friend. Now my opinion is somewhat jaded as I just ordered a Henry Big Boy Carbine. 357

[modified5]

Personally I would stick with the 30-30, but I also really want a .357 magnum Rossi also. :-)
It's a never ending addiction. I have a .44 mag Rossi that I really like.
For the ultimate versatility, if you wanted one gun to do it all, you should look hard at the 45-70.
It can be loaded from mild .44 magnum ranges to hammer of the gods and will dump game as far as your .308.
Decisions, decisions. :-)

[rosst]

pewpewpewco,
You wouldn't happen to have photos by any chance, or maybe share more details? That sounds like a very practical and unusual package. I want to say there's someone else around here with a suppressed levergun, but I can't remember who.

http://images.fishnhunt.co.nz/images/Rossi45/201602261304511.jpg

old pic with a 6X Leupold on top - Target elevation dial added - good for 400yrds on steel, 200yrds on game . . the intention is to push the range out further on steel when i can get the range time . . the look on the other shooters faces is partly worth the effort

[Ramjet-SS]

Just picked up my Henry Big Boy Carbine. What joy to shoot and fun. Little doubt this carbine would make a great deer rifle within the limitations of the ammo and shooter. I have plenty of rifles that have allot of muzzle blast and recoil. A the little 357 is a journey down a different road and the 50 rounds I put through that rifle was really fun.

[Smoke4320]

Send the 30-30 out and have it rebored to .358 with 16 twist .35 30/30 Best of both worlds . It be half the price of a new .357 carbine
Ignore my post .. my mistake

[GhostHawk]

Never sell a good gun. Clean and oil it, put it away for another day.

Save your penny's and your dimes and before long you can have that .357 lever gun.
But never sell the good ones. Sell the ones that shoot around corners, that won't function, that can't be fixed, that load development won't cure.

I had a double barrel .410 once, sxs, prettest little double you ever saw.
After the biggest buck in the county ran right past me. I fired 6 shots at it, all missed.
I tested it, at 50 yards left barrel was 1.5 to 2 feet high. Right barrel was 2 feet left.

SOLD, and told the guy that whoever used it would have to learn it as the barrels IMO were not regulated correctly. He still wanted it, I took no profit, only recovered what I had in it.

Keep the ones that shoot, sell the losers only. Here I am 64 years old, seldom worked for more than 10-12$ an hour. Did not work most of the last 20 years because of health issues. And I am sitting on about 30 guns. Everything from Mosin's to Ruger Mk III 22/45s. Yugo SKS's to Winchesters. Play the long game. He who dies with the most toys wins. And I may not win, but I have plenty of toys to play with.

[olafhardt]

I had a Win 94 and bought a Rossi 357. I soon learned that full loaded 357's kicked as hard as factory 30-30. Other than magazine capacity there is nothing that I could find that the 357 could do as well as the 30-30 and 6 in the magazine is enough for me. Rossi went down the road.

[trapper9260]

I got both and it all works for me and beside I already cast boolits of both so I am not out of anything.I got the 30-30 marlin because my dad had one years ago and I like it but he gave it to one of my ex brother in law and who knows what happened to it after and as for the 357 rossi I had a BH so need a rifle to go with it.Both that is just me. I did found a 44mag Marlin that was made back in 80 and that works with my RH.

[Eddie Southgate]

Had a stainless Rossi in .45 Colt and thought it was nice till I started shooting it and comparing it to the Marlin Cowboy .45 Colt rifle I also had . I then realized it was just a bit short of being junk so it went first chance I got . I'd pass on the Rossi and wait on something better if you decide not to keep the 30/30 .

Eddie

[HiVelocity]

I would keep the Marlin 30-30! Much more knock-down power than the Rossi. IMHO.

HV

[Texas by God]

Lazarus thread?
I’ve used both, I’ll take the 30-30.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[versa-06]

I'm a Winchester Buff. I've had the Rossi 357 & it was an ok rifle no real complaints. I sold it & still have 3 30-30's , one I had JES re-bore to 38-55 which I really like. I'll probably hang on to the ones I have & may add to them in the future. They just work!

[Shawlerbrook]

Not going to disparage the Rossi 357 as it on my to get list, but no comparison to a Marlin 30 30.

[jonp]

30-30 won't do much a 308 couldn't get done at any range so I think I would go with the 357Mag for under 100yrd brush if you really want one as you could carry a sidearm of the same caliber.

[popper]

My first rifle was marlin 336 30/30, I won't sell it. Thought about the 357 or Max in a single shot but opted for BO. Not a real hunter so what I have will do.

[Jim22]

I don't like the .357 with 16 inch barrel because of muzzle blast. My Marlin 94 has eighteen inch barrel and it's too short. Don't need to make my tinnitis any worse.

[Duckiller]

The 308 with a low power scope is probably the best brush gun mentioned here. It has a flat trajectory that will let you shoot through small holes without hitting hunkc of wood. Many years I believe Outdoor Life shooting column did an article on shooting through brush. An assortment of calibers were tested. Don't remember the small, fast one but the 45/70 was the big slow one. After much testing the conclusion was if you hit wood your bullet was going to be deflected . My early hunting experience confirmed thus. Shot at a deer standing behind fairly thich bush. Useing a 6.5 x 55 swede with 140 gr factory jacketed bullet. First shot broke both front legs. Deer ran slowly but stayed behind brush. It took several shot to put it down so I could bet close and applied a final shot. If you want to shoot in brush have a scope and flat trajectory so you can pick your shot and shoot through holes that wii exist in brush. If your target is close to brush your bullet won't deflect that much , 10 feet or more behind the bush you are probably not going to hit anything. Low power scopes are for old eyes and shooting in heavy cover.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

.30-30 or .357.........30-30 every time! :grin:

DG

[Zingger]

Chalk up another vote on the 30-30 board.

Zingger

[uscra112]

The Marlin is much the better gun, regardless of the cartridge. Make it a 336 in .35 Remington and you've got the best of all possible worlds.

[versa-06]

Maybe not the best of all possible worlds. Some prefer the 356, 358, 375, & or 38-55. Which could be down loaded to the 35 Rem. But everyone has there preferences. That's what keeps it all interesting....-06

[Rapier]

With the 30-30 Marlin in your possession, I would put a 2-7 scope on it and develop a load with the 30-30 using an RCBS flat point mould, something like the big flat meplat 150s. If you do not have Unique, you can use 3031 or 4227 and pushed up to around 2k fps. The 30-30 in a decent lever is capable of excellent accuracy with a scope and the Marlin is built to take a top center mounted scope.

[Sig556r]

Got both, but my R92 357/38 has a 22” octagonal barrel that’s a lot forgiving on my old shoulder.
I still load light 30-30s for my old Marlin (not the newer Remlins)

[scattershot]

The 30/30 is the better choice for a lot of reasons, but it sounds like you really want the Rossi. If you can’t have both, keep the Marlin.

[braddock]

I had a ruger #1 in 308 and decided to sell it and bought a win 94 30/30 to replace it then along comes an r92 and an offer I couldn't refuse and I bought the rossi and kept the 30/30.
I'm not in the same boat as you as the rossi and the win 94 could be twins, same size, same weight, trouble is the 30/30 never goes out the door with me now.315206 In the image, the win 94 is the one with the red dot. The 357/38 is cheap as chips to reload, I have over 4500 small rifle primers about 500 ponds of roofing lead the 30/30 is about the same to reload but I'm down to my last 1000 large rifle primers and they have to load another caliber as well.
Of the two, the rossi is slightly more accurate and with 185 grain cast flat points at just over 1750 fps is a real powerhouse, the 30/30 with 185grn fp cast at just over 1900 is too, but a 35 caliber hole is bigger than a 30 caliber hole all day long....
I'd say keep them both.
The only thing that I don't like about the rossi is it is stainless.

[rockrat]

I would keep the 30-30, but the 357mag is easier to load for. The carbide dies speed things up.

[firefly1957]

It has been 8 years are you now happy with your choice ?

About the same time I was looking for a .357 Mag lever gun but ended up getting a 1953 Marlin model 336 and have been very happy . Two things Mechanically I prefer on the Marlin 336 . A) my "old eyes" need a scope to hunt with B) The pistol portion on the stock allows my "OLD WRIST" much more comfort holding the gun.
I chose only cast bullets for the gun the Lee 170 mould casts a pure lead bullet that coated (Spray enamel paint and baked) is 184 grains . I load it with not the maximum load of IMR 3031 from a Lyman book velocity averages 2040 f/s and groups at 100 yards are well under 2 inches. The bullet of soft lead preforms a lot like a jacketed bullet for me mushrooming rather then breaking up .
My second load is for pest control rather then the .22 rimfire . I load the lee 90 grain .32 caliber (hard cast) bullet it is sized at .310 after powder coating and loaded at 1040 f/s . This load shoot dead on with scope at 25 yards and makes small groups , The gun is sighted dead on with other load at 100 yards . This slow load drops about a foot to 100 yards but I rarely would use it past about 40 yards .

[Forty Rod Ray]

I would have the 30-30 rechambered to 30-30 Ackley Imp. Compare and judge for yourself.
Forty Rod
.

[jonp]

This is great. Thread still going. 308 vs 3030. Love my 3030 and have shot more whitetail in the NE swamps with it than any other rifle including my GP101 whcih took a nice 180lb 8pt but a 308 will do for whitetails, moose, black bears and everything in between. I guess I'll keep one of each as nothing feels as good in the hand as a 3030 lever with a peep sight stalking whitetail when it's 35 degrees and spitting snow.

[Lefty SRH]

Hahaha, 8yr old thread....nothing wrong with the 30-30 one bit. Nor, nothing wrong with the 308 Winny either. The 30-30AI (in my recent discovery) is FANTASTIC in a strong action, as in the TC Contender or Ruger No.1
Now, before you start hammering me, in my 14” Contender my 30-30AI with 150 Hornadys SP Im getting 2350-ish
With 110 Hornady V-Max Im knocking on 2600s door. Both with very good accuracy.
Ive heard the 336 and 94 action are soft/spongy....so the velocity results have been un-exciting or benign. I cant say one way or the other....I like the AI in my Contender.

As far as scopes go and bullet drops (aka, trajectory) thats why we have scopes and dope charts....do your homework.

[gumbo333]

Last post I saw from davidheart was April 2015. Anyone else wonder if he is still alive? I sure hope so, be good if he posted again.

[Misery-Whip]

Keep the 3030. Light 38 loads are a plus, and mag capacity are another. But accuracy at longer ranges isnt worth trading for. 3030 can be loaded quite soft.

[Three44s]

I own a Marlin '94 in 357 and like it very much but I would not put it in the same league as a 30-30 for deer hunting.

Now of course the pistol caliber in a rifle will suffice? Sure, if you keep the range short! But it will not hold a candle to the 30-30 at ranges the rifle cartridge will still shine at.

I own a M39 (22 lr.) for squirrels, a M1894 357 for close whatever and fun and a 35 Rem Waffle top, all Marlins.

And, the 35 gets my vote for deer etc.

Three44s

[Soundguy]

for a brush gun.. i'd go 35rem over 30-30.. imho...

[Tracy]

I love the .30-30, in my Winchesters and my Savage 24. I don't love the Micro Groove rifling in Marlins, though. If I had a good 336 in .30-30, I would consider having it rebored to .35-30 with standard rifling and 1:18" or 1:20" twist. That would be a great cast bullet rifle.
So would a Rossi in .357 Mag, though. I've had a couple of .357 rifles and as some have pointed out, you can get a lot more power out of them than most people realize.

[Texas by God]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230811/1c810a162dac5ba8ab2f2200e6d19486.jpg
As I said…. I’ll take the one on the right.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Gray Fox]

When we're talking about jacketed ammo I agree, but when I read on here that many are "comfortable" with a 175 grain 311041 at 1,800 fps from a .30-30 for hunting deer, I think about my 180 grain .357 mag Ranch Dog RNFP boolit at about 1,725 fps from a 20" Rossi or Marlin carbine I'll take the latter out to 125 yards. GF

[Texas by God]

Why does this thread keep showing to be current-with no new posts?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pls1911]

For once... the poll got it RIGHT!!!

[Pereira]

I've killed a pasal of deer with the 30-30s from 50 to 125 yds.
Once even got one with a Rossi in 357 at 85 or so yards, one shot and he didn't go 2 steps.
As far as a woods gun both are pretty deadly.
But if you want a real thumper grab a 35 Rem.

RP

[trapper9260]

I did not vote because each one has its place . I do have both and will not part from them. You also have to look at some states with straight wall cartridges. You can use one ,but not the other.

[davidheart]

Last post I saw from davidheart was April 2015. Anyone else wonder if he is still alive? I sure hope so, be good if he posted again.

I'm still alive. :razz:

I mostly stalk around here and the Accurate Shooter forum and I keep in good contact via phone with some members like Brassmagnet. I didn't realize the last post I made was in April 2015 though? That's 8 years. Can't be right? So many things have happened since then....

But on this front I sold my 30-30 and held onto my 308Win Model 7. I load Ranch Dog boolits, 130gr TTSX, 190gr Sub-x, 150gr Speer Gold Dots, and a very light 150gr squirrel load. I couldn't begin to count the number of deer and squirrel that rifle has accounted for... I just recently worked up a 110gr V-Max load for coyote hunting with it too. With my suppressor and scope the rifle weighs 6lb 15oz, bedded in a Wildcat Composites stock, with Timney Trigger, and handles like a dream. I actually replaced the original #1 contour 308 barrel with a #3 contour 1:10 twist Lilja which I chambered myself to benchrest standards using a carbide Alpha reamer.

I wouldn't get rid of it for anything. Just yesterday I killed another deer using a subsonic 190gr Sub-X traveling about 1000fps loaded under 10gr of Trail Boss.

But I'm super happy to see this thread is still alive! More conversation is always good!

[hawkeye1]

I agree with most. I haven’t voted because I have both and hunt with both. Variety is the spice of life. Keep the 30/30 and get a Rossi. Only “problem” is it will lead to other lever guns. Buy shoot and enjoy.

[gumbo333]

I just checked this again, davidheart is still kicking. He is happy with his choice, had years of enjoyment. Now that’s sooo cool!

[Bazoo]

An interesting discussion. I love to see an old thread come back with the OP having made a choice. Glad you're doing well davidheart too! Heck man... you need to say something once in a while!

I'm friends with Brassmagnet too, ain't talked to him for a little bit, guess I ought to call and say howdy.

I'd kept the 30-30, but glad you kept the 308. For me, choosing between a Marlin or a Rossi, I'd have kept the Marlin based on the gun, not the caliber. Realistically, a pistol caliber rifle/carbine is much handier than a 30-30 in most situations under 100 yards. 30-30 is a great cartridge though for an all-around do-anything cartridge.

I once had a friend with a Rossi 92 357, and I considered swapping him my Winchester 94 30-30. But... sure glad I didn't. I wouldn't have been happy with the Rossi most likely, and I would have missed the Winchester. He's the type of guy that don't keep anything too long, so my Winchester would have been on the chopping block in short order and gone if I wasn't quick with cash.

[gumbo333]

PS davidheart , time to buy another 30/30. More fun to be had.

[Outer Rondacker]

Modern day prices on powder and primers I pick 357. Your not finding large rifle primers for that 30-30

[davidheart]

Modern day prices on powder and primers I pick 357. Your not finding large rifle primers for that 30-30

But I am finding Small Rifle Primers for my SRP 308 brass. With a 1:10 twist 308 with 18in barrel and Peterson SRP Brass & Lake City LR12 LRP brass I'm loading anything I want from light for cartridge 110gr V-Max, heavy 190gr Subsonics, Cast 150gr Squirrel loads, 170gr 30-30 duplicate cast loads, and 150-168gr standard J-Word loads.

Also, at my local walmart the only ammo on the shelves are 270win, 30-06, 6.5CM, 308win, 22lr.... and for some reason 350 Legend.

Ammo and component shortages do not effect me at all with this rifle.

I'm not getting rid of my sub 7lb (with scope and suppressor) Model 7 308 Winchester any time soon. If the government regulated the heck out of firearms and we had to register one rifle as our be all end all this would be the one I'd keep. I'm now 37 and I'll likely continue to shoot this rifle until I'm well into my 80's.

I didn't like the Microgroove barrel on my Marlin. That I remember. I once upon a time had a conventional rifled Win94 30-30 and it shot cast way better. The microgroove was finicky in my experience.

Also, full tilt J-Word loads in the 30-30 are no match for full tilt 308win loads.

I've hunted Summer time depredation tags for farmers and during those times it was all about killing deer day or night and putting them down quickly. My 308win was able to do that with authority with a 150gr J-Word at 2900fps or 130gr J-Word at 3200fps. I wouldn't trust my 30-30 for that. During hunting season though I like to use "sub-optimal" loads (like my subsonic 190gr Sub-X or 170gr Cast Boolit) because it's hunting season, not killing season.

I have a severe cast of "golfers elbow" so I have a difficult time shooting a bow, so downloading my 308 and staying within archery range is my way of having an "archery hunt" without owning a crossbow. Maybe one year I'll buy a crossbow but for now my 308 has been faithful.

The flexibility it affords me is tremendous and with the advent of new bullet alloys like the Hammer Bullet alloys I'm able to achieve mild 300 Win Mag velocities in the 308win....

So there we have it. I found what is ideal for me and I'm super happy with it. As much as I know there are better cartridges for ballistic coefficients (like the 6.5's and 7's) and better cartridges for cast boolits (like the 35's and 45's), as a do all rifle I just don't know what would be more ideal than this.

If I had a time machine perhaps a 7mm-08 would be superior if I had to do it all over again? But that's the only cartridge I could imagine could come close to the range of usefulness I've been able to find in this 308. As it is I have so much infrastructure surrounding my 308 that it would be a fair amount of work to research just as much as I've done over the years.

The 6.5CM, 22-250, 243, 32 Special, 338 Fed, 358Win, 270win, 35Whelen, etc, while all wonderful cartridges, couldn't come close to the level of versatility and effectiveness of the 308. Only the 7mm-08 could rival it and the only question mark would be in the realm of sub-sonic deer sized hunting bullets (which I think Maker Bullets makes a solution for...).

[gumbo333]

You’re happy. We’re happy. For sure there is more load data for the 308 , 30-06 and 223 by far than any other calibers. Plus the 308 is pretty efficient. This was a great posting. In 40 years you’ll be my age.