Did Lee stop making a bullet seating die with roll crimp?

[VintageRifle]

Hello,

Just purchased a Lee rgb 30-06 die set and a pacesetter 30-06 die set. I am disappointed that there was no roll crimp with the rgb set and since I wanted a factory crimp die for jacketed loads I just bought the pacesetter version to get the factory crimp and what I though t would be a seating die with roll crimp for my cast bullet loads.

Just have to say, I am very disappointed that both sets came with a dead length seating die. My last pacesetter die set I bought (used) had the roll crimp feature in the bullet seating die.

Did Lee stop making a roll crimp bullet seating die?

Thanks,
Nick

[texassako]

From what I understand the pacesetter 2 die sets have the seater/crimp die, and the 3 die sets have the dead length since they include the fcd. I did not know the RGB did not have the crimp feature. Good to keep in mind for the future.

[orbitalair]

My RGB 30-06 and 308 dies have a roll crimp.
My set is not that old, couple of years.
Crimp is determined by how far down you set the die relative to brass.

[Bzcraig]

No disrespect intended. Why did you buy both sets? The descriptions clearly state what is included with the die sets. Having said that, you did get a FCD, will that not suffice?

This Is from the Lee Instructions:
Screw the bullet seating die in until you feel it touch the case mouth. If no crimp is desired, back the die out 1/2 turn. If a crimp is desired, turn the die in 1/4 turn. The bullet must have a crimping groove or it cannot be crimped. Case must be trimmed to same length to provide a
uniform crimp. Bullet depth is adjusted by screwing the adjusting screw in or out to suit. Bullets should be seated deep enough to work through the gun’s action. See MaxiMuM overall length on reverse.
CAUTION: Seating bullets excessively deep will reduce the case capacity and increase the pressure.

[VintageRifle]

Got the rgb set first. Didn't have a crimp in the seater die. Bought the pacesetter set because that's what I normally buy and those had a roll crimp. Got the pacesetter in the mail just before I posted and it says "dead length bullet seating die".

What it describes in the die set at purchase is all dependent on what the photo indicates. Online purchases. Prior experience with Lee suggested only the deluxe and collet die sets had the dead length seating dies. The lower sets would have standard seating dies with roll crimp.

Was just going to sell off the rgb set.

I don't like the factory crimp die for cast bullets.

[VintageRifle]

Been running cast in 303 British, 7.5x55 Swiss, 7.62x39, 8mm Mauser, 8x56r, and all had a roll crimp in the seater die.

The new stuff apparently does not.

Same issue with rgb 223 dies. No roll crimp for a cannelure.

[VintageRifle]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/04/34d31d40f84d653709c3da9beb3b1436.jpg

No wrench flats on the seater die means dead length bullet seating die without crimp. This is what I found out after the fact.

Sent Lee a message about the seating dies. Will hopefully get a reply soon.

[orbitalair]

I see, yes, mine has the flats.

Did you ask Lee if they have made this a policy change, or is this a matter of some Amazon vendor 'making up' RGB sets from dies they find at gunshows????

[orbitalair]

Checking the website it appears that RGB is now no roll crimp, using the DeadLength bullet seater die,
while the NEW PaceSetter 2 die set, has the roll crimp bullet seater.

Jeez, what a bunch of chumps.

ETA: the Pacesetter 2 die set is the same price as the Pacesetter 3 die set. Only diff being the type of crimp you get. To be able to do both, you have to buy the 2 Die set, plus the FCD seperately.

Again, what a bunch of chumps.

[VintageRifle]

Thanks, I ordered the 3 die pacesetter. Explains that.

I asked Lee what die set I need to order to get a roll crimp.

The last pacesetter 3 die set I had ordered was 7.7 Japanese. It has the roll crimp and using some washers, it is what I used to roll crimp my 30-06 cast loads over the weekend.

[geargnasher]

Just buy RCBS or Redding, you get what you order. Not a Lee bash, I have dozens of sets of their dies, but they're making it tough to buy what you want in one set these days. I have a stack of Lee seating dies, both dead-length and regular, from sets I bought for the other dies.

Gear

[W.R.Buchanan]

Some do and some don't.

I was disappointed that none of the .303 British dies have the roll crimp feature. I got a RGD set and a neck sizer set specifically so I could have two seating dies and use one as a dedicated roll crimper. Didn't happen and I was lucky to pick up a RCBS set for $20 and I'm using the seater for the roll crimp only.

I also got a Collet Crimper for jacketed bullets.

I think Lee is forcing the FCD on people buy not providing the Roll Crimp feature on it's seating dies.

Luckily there are about 25 other brands of reloading dies out there and you should be able to find something used to do whatever you need.

Randy

[VintageRifle]

The 3 die pacesetter 30-06 set image on Lee's website still shows the die with the roll crimp even though that is not included anymore.
All my new die sets have been Lee. I have 2 used RCBS die sets for 7.5MAS and 6.5x55. Lee has my favorite decapping pins as I have never broken on even on heavily crimped military brass.

Looks like it's time to move on or find an older die set.

[VintageRifle]

Well, a friend helped me out today. Gave me a old style bullet seating die with roll crimp he doesn't use.

[MT Chambers]

A set of dies that does not have a crimp feature is a waste of money, just forces you to buy more dies.

[RogerDat]

I went through this with Lee and the 303 British. The 2 die RGB set is all but useless, instead of providing a budget but complete solution it now only gets you 2/3 of the way to loaded cartridge. Takes the FCD or another die that provide a crimping feature die to make a complete set. Or do what I did buy a used 2 die set to get the roll crimp and FL sizing die. Then Lee for the Collet neck sizing and separate bullet seating die.

I could then use neck size + bullet seating + set up the seating die with roll crimp without engaging the seating function, just adjust the bullet seater backed off.

When I called them they said depending on adjustment the FCD would do a roll crimp. http://leeprecision.com/reloading-dies/rifle-dies/factory-crimp-die/ But it does really make one wonder why they would still be selling the 2 die set.

[Motor]

There is NOTHING WRONG with using the FCD on cast bullets.

You must not understand how it works.

If adjusted properly it will not reduce the size of the bullet in the case. It is not a smooth bore collet. It has raised nubbs if you will, that are about the width of a standard canalure.

These nubbs crimp the brass into the canalure. No other part of the collet should compress the neck.

Motor

[khmer6]

It seems most people over crimp with the FCD. You can also take out the carbide insert and put a very light crimp as well.

[Motor]

khmer6, What carbide insert do you mean? I don't think I've ever seen one on a bottle neck rifle FCD.

As far as pistol FCD's go. Lee should have given them a different name. The crimp function in the pistol version is very similar to a standard crimp die.

The taper crimp is no different. The roll crimp is modified. It's a little more forgiving to differences in case length than a standard roll crimp.

I never use a pistol FCD with cast bullets. I don't want the post sizing caride ring to swage my cast bullet within the case.

Motor

[RogerDat]

When I talked to them they said the FCD for straight wall cartridge was different than for the bottle neck. I'm not sure I really understand the difference well enough to explain it. I think that for straight wall one gets a final sizing from a carbide ring in the FCD but really not sure of that as an absolute fact.

The idea of a separate die for bullet seating and bullet crimp does make some sense, allows each die to be made and set up on the press focused on one task. What makes no sense is to continue selling the RGB 2 die set with dies that only provide sizing and seating. They do tell you what you are getting but it is a fundamental change in the functionality. RGB used to be a stripped down version of the 3 die set, eliminate the accessories, and a useful but not essential die from the 3 die set.

For bottle neck the 4 die set makes the most sense (at least to me) since it provides neck sizing and FL sizing, and saves one the hassle of trying to figure out exactly what "capability" one is going to get.

[orbitalair]

There is NOTHING WRONG with using the FCD on cast bullets.

You must not understand how it works.

If adjusted properly it will not reduce the size of the bullet in the case. It is not a smooth bore collet. It has raised nubbs if you will, that are about the width of a standard canalure.

These nubbs crimp the brass into the canalure. No other part of the collet should compress the neck.

Motor

Yes, yes and no.

Some cast bullets are designed for a roll crimp, as evidenced by the tapered section.

A FCD compresses the brass straight in (reduced diameter), there is no taper.
Will it work, probably. Is it what I want, no.
You can do what you want, but please don't tell us that a FCD is the SAME AS a roll crimp.
Cause I aint buying it.

Lee needs to make the rollcrimp bullet seater a seperate die that we can purchase.

I looked for other die manufs yesterday, most are 'out of stock'. And all were easily 2-3x what a old RGB set sold for.

[bcp477]

The seater die provided with Lee die sets is a taper crimp die - except the sets for revolver cartridges (or others that normally get a roll crimp). So, a 30-06 set comes with a taper crimp seater die, as that is normal for that cartridge.

[RogerDat]

As far as I can tell when a good size group of people of at least average intelligence (stupid reloaders would probably not last too long) above average mechanical aptitude and a fair amount of experience have no clear idea what the heck you're selling or when you "improved" product would prove useful I think your sales brochure and materials need some work.

The FCD may well be a "better mousetrap" in many or even most situations. But what it does exactly (depending on caliber), and what each possible combination of die sets will provide is really not all that clear on the web site. Not the first debate on this forum about the suitability of FCD for cast. Which basically means it is not clear to the market Lee hopes will purchase it. Compounded by what appears to be different functionality in different caliber die sets.

I missed out on the Lee sets discontinued a year ago for the 303 British. That set provided FL sizing, Neck Sizing along with seating and crimping. Now since calling it "Deluxe" confused people I was stuck with picking up this that and the other from Lee, At which point it was a whole lot easier to just buy a set of dies that I know what they do. Only buying the Collet Neck Sizing die from Lee instead of a larger set.

Pistol straight wall dies set was so much easier to purchase from Lee than the bottle neck sets. They all provide a roll crimp.

I think the FCD offers one clear advantage, since it comes in from the side it should be more consistent since it does not rely on cartridge length for crimp amount.

[VintageRifle]

Lee use to include a seating die with roll crimp with the pacesetter die sets. They have eliminated it from the die sets. The dead length bullet seating dies do not crimp and use to be part of the collet die sets or the ultimate die sets only from what I remember and have purchased in the past.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/07/98c921147ba298cf04eaac13b5557833.jpg
Dead length seating die now included with new sets. Does not crimp.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/07/edae603220ab075c18c8d1bda194aba5.jpg
Basic seating die that use to be included with the pacesetter and rgb die sets. It does a roll crimp.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/07/577c07e1fd42b9c116702516e770581f.jpg
Factory crimp die. Included in 3 die pacesetter sets and ultimate die sets from what I remember.

The dies below are from a new set of 30-06 pacesetter and a die given to me by a friend from his older pacesetter die set. The die with the flats on it will roll crimp. The die without the flats, and checkered around the top, is a dead length bullet seating die and will not crimp.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/07/cd8432e86be3538892abfbfec6c906f1.jpg

[VintageRifle]

This is a 7.7 Japanese die set. Red box, 3 die pacesetter. Die set is about 3 years old. Other die sets I have for 303 British, 7.5x55 Swiss, 7.62x39, 8x56R all have a seating die that roll crimps.

This 7.7 die set is still available today with what I see as the same part number but has the dead length seating die instead of the seating die that roll crimps.

I use the factory crimp die for many of my jacketed bullet loads. I like the roll crimp better for cast as I can bring in the case flare at the same time I am seating a bullet. Saves time and works well for me.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/07/6cea3b0a63f8615591d369d7705487a6.jpg

Basically:

1. None of the new Lee die sets can roll crimp a rifle cartridge.

2. None of the RGB rifle die sets can crimp and are useless without another die to bring a flared case mouth after seating a bullet. The rgb set is no longer a really good buy.

3. Another brand of die is needed for those that want a roll crimp.

I will say that the RGB die set may never have been able to crimp in its history and could be why I never bought them before. However, the pacesetter die sets all had a bullet seating die that roll crimped. Lee's website still show this when reading about the 3 die pacesetter sets.

[Motor]

Yes, yes and no.

Some cast bullets are designed for a roll crimp, as evidenced by the tapered section.

A FCD compresses the brass straight in (reduced diameter), there is no taper.
Will it work, probably. Is it what I want, no.
You can do what you want, but please don't tell us that a FCD is the SAME AS a roll crimp.
Cause I aint buying it.

Lee needs to make the rollcrimp bullet seater a seperate die that we can purchase.

I looked for other die manufs yesterday, most are 'out of stock'. And all were easily 2-3x what a old RGB set sold for.

Look buddy. I have a degree in tool and die making and have dissembled 3 types of Lee FCDs.

I think you are confusing tools. There are 3 types of crimp used in FCDs.

1) Taper

2) Modified roll.

3) Collet

Study them and get your facts straight.

Motor

[Motor]

VintageRifle, I understand your point completely.

I do use the FCD for my rifle cast bullet ammo BUT like you I remove most of the mouth flair with the crimp function in the regular seat die while seating the boolit.

I guess all the praise over the rifle FCD sent the wrong message to Lee. It's not their first mistake.

Motor

[MT Chambers]

The question is not about the FCD, which I believe is useless anyways, it is about 2 die sets that don't crimp, I simply wouldn't buy them, I much prefer Redding dies anyways.

[khmer6]

This thread is getting kind of long and Ive forgot what the original topic actually was..... But since someone asked the difference between pistol and rifle lee FCD. I so happen to be cleaning my dies this morning. The rifle die crimps?squeezes? Like a collect die. Picture is of a 308 FCD and 7mm mag collect neck sizer. I have heard of people using the collect sizer as a crimp die but never tried it.myself. The straight wall pistol is the 10mm. It's similar to the regular sizing die you would use in stage one with out the decapper. You can't really adjust the tension but you can adjust how far down the case you want to "crimp" by adjust the stem. If you take the insert out it puts a very light crimp especially useful for oversized cast without staging down. I almost forgot about the third type of FCD! Bottle neck pistol. The tokarev 7.62x25 and 357sig are the same. It's kind of like the rifle collect next sizer. The die body is universal but the inserts are cartridge specific.

[Motor]

khmer6, Yeah, its gotten off topic. Still nice post. I have not seen the bottle neck pistol one yet.

Lee's web site actually does a decent job of describing them but you have to have some knowledge to understand it.

The collet type FCD does not have a smooth ID like a collet sizer. It has a ridge in it that crimps the brass. This is why when adjusted correctly it will not squeese the boolit.

As your photos show the straight wall pistol FCDs have a insert that applies the crimp. As I stated before if you look at them closely the taper version is no different than a normal taper crimp die.

The roll crimp is slightly modified so it is not as abrupt as a standard roll. This makes it a little more friendly to case lengths that are not perfectly consistant.

In either straight wall style the crimp method is NOT what makes the FCD special. It's the post sizing ring that insures chambering. This is why I always say Lee should have named them differently.

There is also a 45-70 FCD that uses the collet. Unlike other straight wall dies I don't believe this one has the post sizing ring.

IMO: Just too many different tools with different functions with the same name.

Motor

[EDG]

Your practice and mine are the exact opposite.
I never crimp anything on a rifle round unless it is for a tube magazine or a slam bang autoloader, pump or lever gun. When I crimp for those I use the LEE FCD.
I do crimp revolver rounds of course. I will crimp to straighten out the case mouth on a BPCR round but the majority of bottle neck rounds have never been crimped.

A set of dies that does not have a crimp feature is a waste of money, just forces you to buy more dies.

[Motor]

EDG, How do you remove the mouth flair on your rifle cast boolit ammo?

If it wasn't for the mouth flair I would not use a crimp either. In fact the "crimp" I do apply with the FCD to my bottle neck cast bollit rifle ammo is not doing much more than completely removing the mouth flair.

The ONLY j-word rifle ammo I ever crimp is for tube magazine. I load for several different auto loaders and have never saw the need and some of these are very rough on ammo.

Motor

[GhostHawk]

Well I have both types. I don't mind the factory crimp die in 7.62x39, what I dislike is when I seat the bullet, it can MOVE before it gets crimped.

With my 7.62x54r die, when it seats it roll crimps locking the bullet in place, and removing the flare.

I do think Lee could/should do a better job of labeling exactly what dies are in what set.
I suspect a lot of people buy one when they are really wanting something different.

That being said, it is buyer beware, up to us to be educated and aware, and always asking the right questions.

[VintageRifle]

Was at a gunshow Sunday. The old die sets from Lee, the rgb sets and pacesetter sets, had the seating dies that put a roll crimp on rifle rounds with bullets that have a crimp groove. The same die sets new have the dead length seating dies.

I like Lee dies, but the lack of a roll crimp feature is a deal breaker for me.

I use the FCD for jacketed bullets in the M1, 303 British, 7.62x39, 7.62x54r, etc. But for cast, I just like that roll crimp to take out the flare on the case. Saves a step making reloading at the range faster with cast.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Lee appears to be "Phasing Out" the roll crimp feature ON bottle neck cases, probably to induce sales of the Collet style Crimping die. One type of FCD.

The problem I have is that they were not clear about which ones have it and which ones don't. I bought a RGB set for .303 British last year along with a Collet Neck Size set. My reasoning behind doing this is to get two bullet seating dies so that one could be used as a dedicated Roll Crimping die.

Imagine my despair when I found out that the seating dies wouldn't perform this function.

Luckily a set of .303 dies from RCBS passed under my nose and I bought them for $20. Problem solved.

However the real problem could have been solved if Lee hadn't changed the damn dies in the first place.

I will now call them and bitch,,, and they do listen. I am the one who told them to do a Bulge Buster Kit for de-bulging .40 S&W cases. They responded by offering a Bulge Buster kit for all rimless pistol cases which was a little more than necessary but still the product showed up very soon after I called them.

Maybe if others called them about this issue,,, they would fix it?

Like one of the above posters stated. It wouldn't be the first time they screwed up! and for everyone's information,,, Nobodies perfect.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

I emailed them with these questions today and will post their response when it arrives.

Randy

[VintageRifle]

I called Lee today. They stopped making the standard bullet seating dies for rifles with roll crimp feature about 3 years ago.

Too many people not adjusting the die correctly and over crimping and buckling the case.

Told them I miss the feature and used the crimp to straighten out the flare when loading cast bullets. Asked them to bring it back.

[dragon813gt]

I just went to Lee's website. It's stated what dies come w/ which sets. I agree that a set w/out a crimp is pointless. But the FCDs are available separately for little money. W/ anything, I don't assume I'm getting the same product I did years ago.

[VintageRifle]

I understand products change. This change has hit the RGB sets, which I never purchased before because I wanted the extras found in the pacesetter die sets. Today, those RGB die sets no longer can roll crimp. Didn't know this when I bought mine. Not right on the box, have to look inside and read directions. Would have been nice to see "this die set does not crimp" on the box.

Today, on Lee's website, the pacesetter die sets list conventional bullet seating die. This die crimps. However, it is not what's in the die set.

The die sets I bought came from an online retailer. If I had seen the box for the pacesetter die set in person, I would have left it. Says "dead length bullet seating die".

The online info does not currently have the correct information on the dies.

Look at the 30-06 pacesetter 3 die set.

" Lee 30/06 Pacesetter 3-Die Set includes Full Length Sizing Die, Bullet Seating Die, Factory Crimp Die, Universal Shell Holder, Powder Dipper and Instructions/Load Data

Click here to view parts
Details
SKU 90508
Weight 1.35 lbs

MSRP: $41.98"

RGB set 30-06:

" Lee 30/06 Really Great Buy. Includes full length sizer die and Easy Adjust dead length bullet seating die (no crimp).

Click here to view parts
Details
SKU 90880
Weight 0.93 lbs

MSRP: $25.98"

[Motor]

This is very likely a cost cutting move.

In a way I can understand their thinking. I've been reloading going on 30 years now and load for many calibers. The only bottle neck rifles I've even crimped was 30-30 and 35 Rem. both tube fed.

This of course was before I started casting rifle boolits.

I guess they figure why build in something that hardly anybody uses (or uses incorrectly) when their FCD does it better anyway. Mind you I'm not agreeing with this just speculating.

I guess when they loose, if they loose, enough business over it they will re-concider.

Motor

[LoopSoosStroop]

I think that 95% of die sets are sold to guys that just reload jacketed bullets in bolt action rifles. The needs of cast bullet shooters and guys with lever guns are not considered.

[VintageRifle]

Which is funny since Lee's other end of the business is bullet molds.

[LoopSoosStroop]

Which is funny since Lee's other end of the business is bullet molds.

Does not make sense, I agree.

I also think the amount of rifle molds they sell compared to handgun type molds are probably miniscule.

Still, I'm also dissapointed. I bought a .223 RGB set the other day, will check when I get home this evening if it can roll crimp. I don't like the FCDs, just adds another step.

[claude]

I have used Lee for a lot of my loading equipment, but this very issue you raise has soured me on their new improved die sets. I like a roll crimp, and for certain bullets I shorten my brass to get an acceptable engraving on my cast bullets, consequently, the collet type FCD will not crimp the brass (it will crimp the bullet above the case mouth, a useless feature that is not adjustable) as the actuating of the crimp indexes off the shell holder, and doesn't allow for short brass. This is also an issue with the short Hornady brass, the FCD won't work with it.

I solved the issue by going to the local swap meet and buying a seating die from the sellers used die section. I won't buy anymore Lee die sets with the dead length seating dies. I will spend my money with other vendors.

[W.R.Buchanan]

This is simply one more example of how you are not going to be able to only use one brand of tools.

I don't want to use a FCD to crimp my Rifle boolits. Way too much distortion.

As mentioned above when I bought two different sets of .303 Brit dies I planned on using one of the seating dies as a dedicated roll crimper. Didn't happen and then a RCBS .303 die set fell in my lap.

Problem solved.

Still waiting for their reply. They wouldn't answer the phone for me yesterday.

Randy

[RogerDat]

Considering that most 2 die sets will load ammunition, and that the Lee RGB 2 die set would do the same up until recently.... Even selling the RGB is just asking for unhappy customers.

Adding a third dies step may not be a big issue for turret press owners but O and C press folks may well find it annoying enough that they decide to purchase 2 die set from a different manufacturer. If nothing else the pacesetter 3 die set from Titan is within $1 of an RCBS 2 die set. Both provide essentially the same ability. Hmmm only need to set up two dies and handle the cases twice vs. three times?

The RGB die sets used to be same features as competitors die sets at a better price. Actually rewarded repeat customers that already had a shell holder or those that bought the shell holder or scoop sets.

About the only use I can think of for the limited combination of size & seat might be if you had same caliber but different cartridge and wanted to leave lock rings on to hold adjustments. E.G have .357 mag RGB and .38 special Pacesetter and are willing to swap and adjust the FCD between the two.

[LoopSoosStroop]

I checked my dies yesterday.

Both my .270 and .223 RGB sets do not have the flats on the seating dies.

My 7.62x39 Pacesetter set has the FCD included, but the seater die can definitely close a belled case mouth, even though it also does not have the flats.

I will test all three of these to see if they can apply a roll crimp. I'm confused now.

[W.R.Buchanan]

here's Lee's response:

W.R.Buchanan,

The switch was made for customer convenience and ease of set up. Customers havedemanded the easy adjust DLBSD, Dead Length Bullet Seating Die, as includedwith our Collet neck sizing die. After much thought and consideration, we madethe switch. For bullets with or without a canalure, we offer the Factory CrimpDie for rifle applications.

We made the switch to the DLBSD, Dead Length Bullet Seating Dies, globally in2012. We still manufacture a 223 seat and crimp for the progressiveapplications, such as the Pro-1000 press, which only has threepositions/stations.

You are correct, the DLBSD has a knurled ring at the top of the die, the Seatand Crimp dies of the past, had 3/4" wrench flats.

Thank you for your input, I will pass it on to Mr. John Lee.

Thanks,

Andy Lee
Lee Precision Inc.

[VintageRifle]

And... They just lost my die business.

[dragon813gt]

I have to admit that selling a two die set that doesn't crimp is just plain stupid. Whey even offer it if you can't fully reload a round w/ it? If they wish to push their FCD, which I like, than make it part of all the sets. It's not a Really Great Buy it you have to purchase a third die to reload a round.

[EDG]

Lee could make more people happy if he changed his standard seating die design to this.
This is an old 1960s to 1970s Bair seater for the .308 Win.

It has a top bushing that contains the crimp shoulder. There is no crimp shoulder in the die body.
If you do not crimp you can set the die to be a dead length seater.

If you want to roll crimp proceed as follows.
To use this first set the crimp shoulder high enough to just miss the case when seating the bullet.
Once you get the bullet seated back the seating punch up about .150 to clear the bullet.
Adjust the crimping bushing down until you are happy with the crimp. Then lock the crimping bushing lock nut.
Reset the seater punch to touch the bullet. Test it on a new case and bullet. You will be simultaneously seating and crimping. If everything is ok lock the nut on the seater punch and start seating bullets.

I am sure that this design would kill Lee because it requires and added lock nut and bushing. Probably $.35 or $.40 for a set of dies. But it allows dead length seating, crimping while seating and the use of a FCD as an option.





133954133955133956133957133958

[Lostknife]

I recently started loading for 45-70, I have cast bullets and loaded all my ammo for over 50 years so it's not a new experience. What was new, was finding Hornady Brass shorter than the other manufacturers!! I bought a LEE crimp die and chucked the collet part in my lathe and trimmed Ø.050" from the bottom. It now crimps the Hornady brass at the correct position for 135 grain cast bullets that are cast from a 45 acp mould which also had an encounter with my lathe to open it up to drop bullets at Ø.460". All other brass works fine with any of my cast and J bullets but there seemed to be much more used Hornady brass available. I use two sets of dies, one semi permanently set up in a Dillon 55OB to load these "squib" loads and the other set used in a Bonanza Co-Ax. Both die sets are Bonanza.
Lost
PS:
I am using a 0.050" washer dropped over a standard length case ie other than HORNADY to use the collet crimper with the standard Length brass. I will try to find an old Lyman or other make seater die , I have lots of old lyman dies but not 45-70 Lol, and cut 0.050" from its base to facilitate a roll crimp or taper crimp on these short HORNADY cases. I will and do remachine eqt to facilitate "proper" operation......... But not my Bonanza dies that never need modifications!
Lost.

To taper crimp these short Hornady's I use a 375H&H full length sizing die without the sizing/decapping rod. Works like a charm.
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