Anyone ever make a BIG round ball mould?

[JRD]

My Dad's got what could be the ultimate cast boolit gun. A homemade blackpowder cannon with a 1.975" bore. A friend of his turned it out on a lathe from steel 30 years ago. The bore will just fit a frozen orange juice can filled with cement. (at least the cans 30 years ago fit according to my Dad.)

I shot the cannon last weekend at my four-year-old son's birthday party. He's into pirates, so we had a pirate party and of course Daddy had to get out a real cannon to show the kids.

I loaded it with 120 grains of black, a few crumpled sheets of newspaper packed down hard as a wad, and then filled the rest of the bore with Tootsie rolls and lollypops. The charge was just right, not too loud and blew candy about 75 feet in the air. Wrappers were a little singed, but the kids had a great time picking it up in the yard.

Which brings me to my idea. I'd like to make a roundball mould for the cannon. A lead ball about that size should weigh about 11,500 grains. I am trying to envision how to design the mould and possibly cut it on an NC Bridgeport at work.

Anyone ever made a big round ball mould?
Jason

[Jumptrap]

My Dad's got what could be the ultimate cast boolit gun. A homemade blackpowder cannon with a 1.975" bore. A friend of his turned it out on a lathe from steel 30 years ago. The bore will just fit a frozen orange juice can filled with cement. (at least the cans 30 years ago fit according to my Dad.)

I shot the cannon last weekend at my four-year-old son's birthday party. He's into pirates, so we had a pirate party and of course Daddy had to get out a real cannon to show the kids.

I loaded it with 120 grains of black, a few crumpled sheets of newspaper packed down hard as a wad, and then filled the rest of the bore with Tootsie rolls and lollypops. The charge was just right, not too loud and blew candy about 75 feet in the air. Wrappers were a little singed, but the kids had a great time picking it up in the yard.

Which brings me to my idea. I'd like to make a roundball mould for the cannon. A lead ball about that size should weigh about 11,500 grains. I am trying to envision how to design the mould and possibly cut it on an NC Bridgeport at work.

Anyone ever made a big round ball mould?
Jason


Go on ebay and look for sinker moulds/molds. You should be able to find some of those humongous down rigger or fishing net ball molds. I have seen them offered before. May have to watch for awhile until something suitable comes available. Those molds are aluminum and I have no idea how round the ball is. May be perfect. I'm not into sinker molds...but I think lawrence is the brand.....CRS getting the best of me. But it has been mentioned here before...what a waste of good lead! I'd make those big projectiles from concrete and would start scrounging for cans or plastic bottles of a suitable size for my molds.

[Willbird]

I have a 1.5" bore cannon I made, I have made large hollowbased wadcutters from cold rolled steel, not sure if they flew point forward or not, probably not.

If I was to do it again I would make them with a steel nose and a wood base, like a large forster slug.

I would think it would be easier to make them that way, or to make a mold for concrete projectiles than to cast huge lead balls,

Bill

[krag35]

DO-IT molds may have what you want. I have cannon ball sinker molds up to 24 oz. will check this evening to see if any would meet your dia. from what I have seen looking on ebay, after shipping, it's cheaper to just buy direct from DO-IT.
krag35

http://www.do-itmolds.com/products/sinkermolds.php?UID=2005092009572766.249.71.69&category=cannon_ball_sinker

[Johnch]

I cast 10 lb down rigger weights , about 2 1/2"

I have seen 4 , 6 , and 8 lb down rigger weights

DO IT sinker molds list 2 and 3 lb molds
http://www.do-itmolds.com/products/sinkermolds.php?UID=20041207133125216.81.244.44&category=cannon_ball_sinker

May want to call or email them to find out the sizes

Have fun , hope you live out of my area because you will need LOTS of lead or WW

Johnch

[JRD]

I did some quick calculations and I would theoretically need a 1.65 lb sinker mould. Looks like they don't carry that size. (also, my cannon would technically be a .605 guage.)

Also, not to worry, I won't be melting my supply of good lead for cannon projectiles. I've got some scrap stuff that I suspect may be zinc. I'll heat it over a fire in a cast iron pot and not attempt to put it in my good lead pot.

I need to find something the right size to fit in the cannon. I suppose a concrete mould would be cheaper.

Jason

[Willbird]

PVC pipe, fittings, or conduit, try all the schedules ??


Bill

[JohnH]

I need to find something the right size to fit in the cannon. I suppose a concrete mould would be cheaper.

Jason How about clay? Strikes me that a mld could be made and fired from potters clay, would be fragile, but it would work. Concrete absorbs moisture, and on pouring molten lead on it frys, cracks, pops off little peice that are an eye hazard at best. It would be a bit of work, but it is possible to make your own sand mold and smelt aluminum down and make your own mold that way as well.

[PatMarlin]

Check this guy out:

http://www.jt-bullet-moulds.co.uk/index.html

He can make you the mold air shipped to the US very inexpensively, with a fast turn around.

[Frank46]

JRD, there was a show on the tube called artillery games. Once a year the shooters of civil war and later black powder cannon get together and try to outshoot each other.
Two paulsen brothers had a little clip where they made their own projectiles. Zinc was the alloy of choice. The equipment was a far cry from CNC but the results were fantastic. One cannoneer even outshot a modern laser sighted artillery piece. Frank

[Johnch]

I have made fun stuff with plaster of Pairis molds ( spelling ) and cast aluminum , should work with lead .
Make up a wax balls the right size
Fill a box 1/2 full of wet plaster , push in the balls then a layer of plastic wrap then fill with plaster
When dry seperate the 2 halfs , remove the balls and cut in a pour holes.
Clamp the 2 half's together
Then pour your balls .
If carful and the mold will last 6 or so times

No way to preheat the mold so pour it HOT and with a big dipper

Forgot to add spray with mold release .

Good luck and post pic's please

Johnch

[JRD]

Thanks for the help guys. You've given me some good ideas.

First, when I said concrete mould, I was thinking mouldling the balls out of concrete. I agree that concrete would be a poor choice for mould blocks.

The sand cast and plaster of paris moulds sound promising. Maybe more the plaster of paris. My four year old son loves to do projects. I bet he'd love to help Daddy make a cannonball mould out of plaster of paris. I'd probably have my fill of cannonballs if I could get a half dozen balls.

A big question I have: How do you make a wax ball as a pattern? (At least how do you get it round and the right size.) Maybe I can find a ball of the right size to use as a pattern. Did a quick search on the net and baseballs, tennis balls, racquet balls, and pool balls are all too big. Got to check the kids toy bin.

I'll be sure to take pictures.
Jason

[StarMetal]

JRD

Check out the hardware stores, craftstores, any store that canters to woodworking. They have things turned from wood for making crafts and round balls are one. I know they have alot of different round ball sizes and may have one you need for a pattern.

Joe

[JRD]

Just thought of a expedient projectile. These will be easy, but I'd still like to try and cast some round balls.

We have some turned parts at work that are basically a cylinder 1.915 diameter and 2.3 inches long. They're steel and weigh just over a pound. I had one sitting on my desk the whole time I have been thinking about cannon shot.

I'm thinking of tying a streamer a few feet long onto the back of the part. Make it a drag stabilized projectile and also make it easier to track the flight of it. So what if it lowers the BC.

Just so long as the cnc operators can turn out scrap parts, I'll have a supply of cannon fodder.

Jason

[brimic]

What Johnch said.

I used stuff called 'water putty' to make a jig mould earlier this year after reading a site on how to do it. The stuff just needs to be cured in the oven to remove all of the water before use. Here's a website to give you some ideas to work with: http://www.wmi.org/sql_messages_html/onfly_file/doc.asp?num=28316&ini=d:\asp_ini\fishing_tactics_3way.ini&no_nav=

[carpetman]

JRD---Catch a couple of tumblebugs. Put them in a glass bottomed aquarium or some such. Keep giving them dung until they have rolled up the size ball you want. (wear rubber gloves while measuring). You'll be able to shoot the sh-- with the best of us. You might need a DHT (dung hardness tester). They might be hard to find. I suspect Buckshot could cobble you one up. For a sizing die,you could tie down one of the bugs legs so that it could only go in a circle and by adjusting the length of the tie down it would control diameter. Let us know how this works for you.

[PatMarlin]

Carpetman-

I've been lurking here for quite some time, and too have always wanted to make my own Tumblebug/Dung cast boolits, but as yet have been afraid to take the plunge.

To date I've only shot store bought c***er J****ed Tumblebug Dungs, and am a newbie. Can you please excuse my stupid questions, and explain further the process?

I sincerely apologise... :neutral: :neutral: :neutral:

PS... can I use a LEE liquid Alox sizer?.. :shock:

[JRD]

Carpetman,
That is a great suggestion. I like the idea, but I need some advice. Do you suggest fresh (still wet) cowpies, or dried out ones?

A farmer down the street has some llamas. They leave little oval shaped pellets about the size of a marble. Maybe I can gather up some of those and make some cannister rounds.

brimic,
Thanks for the link. That article gave me some ideas. I see one drawback is a very slow rate of casting. I was thinking I could water quench (mould and all) if I had an aluminum mould. A massive sphere is going to take forever to cool.

Jason

[Scrounger]

CarpetMan had a rifle barrel custom made to fit his sheep's pellets...

[longbow]

My Dad's got what could be the ultimate cast boolit gun. A homemade blackpowder cannon with a 1.975" bore. A friend of his turned it out on a lathe from steel 30 years ago. The bore will just fit a frozen orange juice can filled with cement. (at least the cans 30 years ago fit according to my Dad.)

I shot the cannon last weekend at my four-year-old son's birthday party. He's into pirates, so we had a pirate party and of course Daddy had to get out a real cannon to show the kids.

I loaded it with 120 grains of black, a few crumpled sheets of newspaper packed down hard as a wad, and then filled the rest of the bore with Tootsie rolls and lollypops. The charge was just right, not too loud and blew candy about 75 feet in the air. Wrappers were a little singed, but the kids had a great time picking it up in the yard.

Which brings me to my idea. I'd like to make a roundball mould for the cannon. A lead ball about that size should weigh about 11,500 grains. I am trying to envision how to design the mould and possibly cut it on an NC Bridgeport at work.

Anyone ever made a big round ball mould?
Jason
I haven't made a mold that big but a simple approach is to make a two part spade drill or milling cutter. All it takes is a small lathe, some annealed tool steel and a piece of round bar.

Since it sounds like you have tools and machines available this should be easy and inexpensive for you.

The tool steel is used to turn a disk slightly smaller than the bore diameter you want. The disk will have a bevelled edge and a hole drilled through the middle. The larger diameter is the cutting edge. After turning and drilling it is heat treated.

The round bar is used to make a shank to hold the disc like a spade drill or simple milling cutter. A flat a little longer than the radius of the disk is milled in the round bar and as deep past the centerline as the thickness of the disk. Drill and tap for an attachment screw to hold the disk.

Chuck a piece of brass in the lathe (for 3" bore probably 4" minimum diameter) and use the cutter you made to drill in to 1/2 the diameter. Do again and you have two mold halves.

The pouring hole can be drilled through one end of a mold half but you really need a sprue cutter then or you could clamp the two halves together and drill through the seam (sort of like the old scissor type round ball molds). Just hack saw or chisel the sprue off after casting.

For what you want the mold halves could be aligned using a sleeve to fit the outside diameter. Or you could get fancy and use alignment pins and all the rest. Even make a giant pair of rectangular mold blocks and handles if you really wanted but for a cannon you really don't need to get too fancy.

I have used this method to make a round ball to fit inside a 12 ga. wad cup and it worked very well.

Here is a website showing a similar result to what I made - this is just a little fancier.: http://www.jt-bullet-moulds.co.uk/moulds%20&%20balls.jpg

I suggest brass as it cuts clean and easy and the "0" rake tool works well on it.

A picture is worth a thousand words so if you are interested, e-mail me and I will take a digital picture of my tool (now that sounds rude) and send it to you.

I hope that helps and isn't too wordy.

Longbow

[trk]

....
Anyone ever made a big round ball mould?
Jason

Jason- If you're into cannons or mortars you NEED to check this out:

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=57617&highlight=incremental+mold+lathe

There are folks there that will help you make one or make one for you.

TRK

[yammerschooner]

A big question I have: How do you make a wax ball as a pattern? (At least how do you get it round and the right size.)

Please forgive the crazy idea I am about pull out of my rear. I am a bit tired, and feeling a little hazy, so maybe this is way out there.

Could you use a water (or other) baloon instead of wax? You could adjust the size by using different amounts of water, and suspend it in something that won't freeze, like alcohol, to keep gravity from distorting the shape. You would have to make it a little smaller to allow for the increase in size as the water freezes.

Push it into some clay before it thaws, and plaster paris from there. Maybe you could simply plaster paris the cube. It isn't like it is going to get wet.

Seems like a cheap thing to try anyway.

Anyway, it's bed time.

[versifier]

Going along the plaster of paris route, easier than using wax, try wood, You could turn a projectile form on a wood lathe, any shape/weight you wanted: hollow base, long, stubby, pointy. I'd use birch or maple, sand and seal it well before making the mold. With wood, it wouldn't be as easy to make a truly round projectile as with metal, but, as suggested, you could probably find one at a craft supplier. Me, I think I'd go the more creative route - plaster's cheap enough, and you could turn a bunch of different weights and profiles in an afternoon to see what flies best. For the hollow base with streamer idea, cast a paperclip into the base to attach it with, maybe tree tape would work and it comes in lots of different colors. Cardboard wadding should protect the plastic from the heat of combustion.

[gregg]

Some where on the web I saw where they made cannon balls with melted
down carbarators (ZINC?) . They would keep reuseing the balls. I think
they panted them bright colors so to find them.

[trk]

Some where on the web I saw where they made cannon balls with melted
down carbarators (ZINC?) . They would keep reuseing the balls. I think
they panted them bright colors so to find them.

Take a look (about 1/2 way down) at DD's mould and zinc cannon ball.
http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=76285&sid=a47a2bb38fea6fcaca0511b67cdf651c

The N-SSA has national competition in mortars and cannons in Winchester, VA. Folks there shoot from the smaller 24 pounders up through the 8" mortars. Zinc is common as it is of about the same density as iron. Balls are often polished; and are definitely reused. Aluminum is a bit light.

[versifier]

So Jason,
What did you end up trying?

[gregg]

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=76285&sid=a47a2bb38fea6fcaca0511b67cdf651c

Don't know They have been hacked as of right now.

[trk]

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=76285&sid=a47a2bb38fea6fcaca0511b67cdf651c

Don't know They have been hacked as of right now.

Keep trying - you'll get in! Some times it takes two or three tries.

[castalott]

I just want you to have respect for what you making....

A friend ( long since gone) who was into the civil war re-enactments got to playing with his cannon one day.....he found that billiard balls fit pretty good. Tried one on his old barn....THRU everything and out the back. We are talking thick oak siding here. So he thought to 'send one in the direction of a woods 1/2 mile away'. He only tried that one time....as you could hear it go 'on and on and on' ..like the energizer bunny!

Have fun but be careful....

Dale