Who here does caustic bluing

[labradigger1]

I picked up a ruger mk 1 from 74' the other day at the local gun show. Bubba brought it to my table to see if he could sell it. Bubba had totally stripped all the bluing from the pistol. I bought it with the intention of installing a 17 Mach 2 barrel on it and re bluing the whole thing. I stripped the pistol down and hand sanded everything to 4000 grit.
I have changed my mind on installing one of the three 17m2 barrels and have decided to blue it. I had the intention of bluing this myself as I have about 80 lbs of corrosive soda and would only need the saltpeter and distilled water. I do not however have the tanks or the time to fab them so I figured I would ask if anyone here does caustic bluing.
I do not want a rust blue.
Anyone?
Lab

[AJB]

Lab,

I haven't done hot bluing for a long time, but at one time I did a lot of it. For a pistol, you don't really need purpose specific tanks. A kitchen pot, as long as it isn't aluminum, and outdoor burner would work fine.

Tony

[labradigger1]

Lab,

I haven't done hot bluing for a long time, but at one time I did a lot of it. For a pistol, you don't really need purpose specific tanks. A kitchen pot, as long as it isn't aluminum, and outdoor burner would work fine.

Tony
Ok, thanks,
I have read everything about it, watched all the vids and have an old book about bluing.
I may switch gears and just powder coat the whole thing.
I may try blue first and if it fails I could always powder coat, not so much the other way around.

[dragon813gt]

Tim, Goodsteel, does hot bluing. I highly recommend him. He did a fantastic job on one of my 99s.

[labradigger1]

Great! Thanks for the reply. I will pm him.

[Shooter6br]

Search "Drain cleaner blacking" here on the site.

[Shooter6br]

here it is http://castboolits.gunloads.com/archive/index.php/t-198810.html

[oldred]

Search "Drain cleaner blacking" here on the site.


Forget it, you can't get the stuff anymore! Draino will NOT work as some have suggested mistakenly thinking that's what's used, I suppose Draino comes to mind first whenever drain cleaner is mentioned. The product that was used WAS called Drain-Out Crystals and WalMart was the best cheapest place to get it but WalMart no longer has it and the very small supply still available on-line (if you can even find any) costs more than just buying the right stuff from Brownells. I have no idea what they did with it but those stupid meth heads used it for some purpose and it has been pulled from the shelves and is no longer made! It was good stuff and worked like a charm and was so cheap it could be bought for one or two jobs and then just dumped and replaced when needed again (it was safe to pour down the drain, that's what it is supposed to used for!) but alas that's all history now!


The Draino Crystals product is very similar to Drain-Out Crystals and contains Sodium Nitrate and Sodium Hydroxide but in the wrong proportions, however the main reason it won't work is that it also contains up to 13% Sodium Chloride (salt) thus not only are the proper chemicals mixed at the wrong proportions but it's contaminated with a hefty dose of salt.


It seems every time I have pointed this out on other forums I get people disagreeing that it's out of production and they start posting links to online sites that show it for sale, even WalMart, but every one of these links are either "out-of-stock" or grossly over priced or both!

[labradigger1]

Thanks for the replies fellas, I have 70-80 lbs of corrosive soda and would only need the salt Peter and distilled water (or the ample supply of fresh snow here).
I have decided to have goodsteel do it instead.
Once again, thanks!

[oldred]

A kitchen pot



Just a warning about using a kitchen pot, I nearly had a serious accident using one! Most of them, regardless of what they are made of, will have the handles riveted on with Aluminum rivets that will simply dissolve away just from the fumes from this stuff. On the first use of my newly purchased pot when I started to pick it up the handles popped right off dropping the pot and the highly caustic solution! Even cold this stuff can and will do you some SERIOUS hurt and if it's still hot it's much worse! I suppose they may be out there but since this happened I have yet to see a pot with riveted handles that didn't use Aluminum rivets.

[johnson1942]

glenrock blueing, glenrock wyoming

[Nobade]

I use an enamel coated tamale pot for blueing small parts and handguns. I sandblasted the enamel off the inside, and it has held up for about 20 years so far. Heat source is a propane powered Coleman stove.

For salts you'll want caustic soda, sodium nitrate, and sodium nitrite. Water doesn't seem to matter much - we use the lousy tap water at the shop and it works great. If you aren't up on how to prepare salts, do some studying. When you mix water with the dry ingredients it will exotherm big time and get hot a whole lot faster than you would expect. Be prepared.

-Nobade

[oldred]

For salts you'll want caustic soda, sodium nitrate, and sodium nitrite.-Nobade

Is that sodium nitrate AND sodium nitrite or is it sodium nitrate OR sodium nitrite? Not at all trying to disagree and I have been curious about this as I have acquired sodium nitrate to use for my next batch but I have seen recipes for both just not both together. I have one that calls for ammonium nitrate instead of sodium nitrate, Would you care to elaborate a bit on the mixes and the proportions?


[EDIT] Accidentally typed Potassium nitrate (corrected) instead of Ammonium nitrate which I meant, however it's my understanding that Potassium nitrate would work just fine but could get quite spendy using it.

[Nobade]

Is that sodium nitrate AND sodium nitrite or is it sodium nitrate OR sodium nitrite? Not at all trying to disagree and I have been curious about this as I have acquired sodium nitrate to use for my next batch but I have seen recipes for both just not both together. I have one that calls for ammonium nitrate instead of sodium nitrate, Would you care to elaborate a bit on the mixes and the proportions?


[EDIT] Accidentally typed Potassium nitrate (corrected) instead of Ammonium nitrate which I meant, however it's my understanding that Potassium nitrate would work just fine but could get quite spendy using it.


You want both nitrate and nitrite. At least that's what I use at the shop. I don't have the proportions written down here, I'll try to remember to make a note of it today.

-Nobade

[Jeff Michel]

If you go the Ammonia Nitrate route, you will want to do it out of doors. It's overwhelming when mixed. You wouldn't necessarily need the Sodium Nitrite, it works fine with Caustic Soda and Sodium Nitrate

[oldred]

If you go the Ammonia Nitrate route, you will want to do it out of doors. It's overwhelming when mixed. You wouldn't necessarily need the Sodium Nitrite, it works fine with Caustic Soda and Sodium Nitrate

ANY of these concoctions should be used outdoors or at least with adequate forced ventilation but especially the Ammonium nitrate due to the volume of Ammonia gas released! In my case I have a large area that was originally set up for painting and and has exhaust fans that completely change the air in less than a minute. This is over-kill but I have it so I use it but it creates a problem when the weather is really cold, a tank inside a small garage with a range hood exhausted to the outside is what is used by the only guy I personally know who does this. With all the Ammonia released from the Ammonium nitrate mix I don't think that set up would be sufficient during the initial mix/first heat but then the fumes from any mix at any stage except sitting cold can be dangerous.

Before anyone attempts to do this they need to understand the hazards involved before starting, this is not something a person wants to learn by experience! As an example the Ammonium Nitrate as you correctly pointed out mixed inside a building would be extremely dangerous. This is not something a person would be likely to just say "oops, I won't do that again" because it's very possible the person might never be able to say that or anything else ever again!

There is one incident that happened years ago and if I got the sequence of events right as it was told to me it went something like this, the fellow had his tanks set up in his small shop as they had been for about 6 months or so and on that particular day he was firing them up and waiting for the temperature to come up into the usable range. His home made tanks were normally stable enough but he was using an extension cord extending from an outlet on the opposite side of the tanks where he was working, for whatever reason he needed to go from where he was at the time to the other side of the tanks and accidentally caught his foot on the cord which in turn then stretched out and caught the top of the tank when the guy tripped and stumbled forward. The force pulled the tank over as he fell to the floor and he was heavily splattered with the still heating solution, although it was said that the solution was not yet hot enough to cause severe scalding the unfortunate guy died several days later from a combination of light scalding burns and chemical burns from the caustic solution. The fact is that this chemical solution can cause severe (chemical) burns even cold if a person spills it on themselves and splattering it in the eyes usually results in instant blindness, there is no washing it out quick enough as the damage starts to occur the instant it contacts the eyes and in mere seconds irreversible damage is done!

The importance of safety gear, proper clothing, goggles, chemical proof gloves, shoes/boots, etc can not be overstressed, this stuff is dangerous and MUST be treated as such! The most important safety tool of all here however is understanding just what this solution is, what it will do and how to work with it safely before even thinking about trying to do it. However when done with respect to what it can do and with the proper safety precautions and safety gear there is no need to be afraid, it's just that this stuff is very unforgiving of mistakes so don't take ANY chances and it should be safe enough.


This stuff can and will do you some serious hurt if you don't understand and respect it and it can be dangerous so those folks willing to take chances would probably be well advised to leave it to the pros, there is a darn good reason why hot bluing is not normally done at home by the "weekend warrior"!

[Nobade]

Oldred, that is very good advise you give. This stuff should never be taken lightly, and especially for those of us who use it every day. It's too easy to get complacent. I would also recommend not using ammonium nitrate. It will work, but there's no need to use it since sodium nitrate is cheaper and easier to get (at least around here)

As promised, I wrote down the mix I use.
As parts, it's:
100 parts sodium hydroxide
88.63 parts sodium nitrate
59.09 parts sodium nitrite

as percentages, it's:
40.37% sodium hydroxide
35.78% sodium nitrate
23.85% sodium nitrite.

And yes it will work without the sodium nitrite. But it gives a much better deep black color if you use it, plus it's cheaper to mix that way.

Do your homework, use all proper safety precautions, and if you feel you're in over your head take it to a professional. That's what gunsmiths are for after all.

-Nobade

[FrankG]

What is the ratio of water to chemicals for this formula ? And where does one find the chemicals ? At one time I used the lye and ammonium nitrate until you couldnt get it . Sure did a good job .

[oldred]

What is the ratio of water to chemicals for this formula ? And where does one find the chemicals ? At one time I used the lye and ammonium nitrate until you couldnt get it . Sure did a good job .

Most hardware sores and about any farm supply will have what you need. Ammonium nitrate is still available and contrary to what rumor has it anyone can buy it and the BATF/FBI will not come knocking on your door if you do, there is a farm supply in SW Va. not far from here that sells it loose or in 50 lb bags. Sodium Hydroxide is simply Lye and is sold by lot's of places, it can still be found as pure Lye drain cleaner or simply as Sodium Hydroxide and there is almost no restrictions on the sale. Sodium nitrate (preferred over Ammonium nitrate anyway) is as close as WalMart as "Hy-Yield Nitrate of Soda" fertilizer. Bonide Nitrate of Soda fertilizer and several other brands are available at about any farm supply and a lot of hardware stores, in some cases even Lowes and Home Depot, so all the ingredients are rather easy to find.

However the catch is that instead of running down all this stuff and mixing it together it's about as cheap and a heck of a lot easier to just order the right stuff from Brownells and be done with it, unless you are just mixing a small batch for a one-off job.


That was the beauty of the (discontinued unfortunately) Drain-Out-Crystals, it was a one stop one product solution that you could just pick up at WallyWorld and all it needed was mixing with water and heating! Couldn't have been simpler and at less than 4 bucks a bottle it was economical too especially for small jobs, on top of all that it worked beautifully but sorry to say it's all just history now.

[Geezer in NH]

Riverside service 603-323-7759 Tamworth NH uses the same Du-lite process Ruger uses. Same as GM, and Sig who they blued for.

[bosco555]

Hi All...Anyone from Australia in here? It is difficult to get the stuff down under. I can vouch that the drain cleaner does not work.
We can only get crystals which are 55% Sodium Hydroxide with aluminum shavings. Tried, and it does blacken the metal somewhat, but not as you would want.
If someone has tried to caustic hot bluing in Australia, please tell us what you've used and where to source the chemicals...
Thank you ever so much
gb

[waksupi]

Hi All...Anyone from Australia in here? It is difficult to get the stuff down under. I can vouch that the drain cleaner does not work.
We can only get crystals which are 55% Sodium Hydroxide with aluminum shavings. Tried, and it does blacken the metal somewhat, but not as you would want.
If someone has tried to caustic hot bluing in Australia, please tell us what you've used and where to source the chemicals...
Thank you ever so much
gb


Do a search for soap making suppliers. I got some nice pure stuff from them.

[bosco555]

Hi Waksupi...sorry to be a pest but what should I look for in there?
thanks

[waksupi]

Hi Waksupi...sorry to be a pest but what should I look for in there?
thanks

Sodium Hydroxide

[oldred]

I can vouch that the drain cleaner does not work.

The RIGHT drain cleaner did work and worked really well!

The drain cleaner that did work and worked quite well was about an exact mix for bluing but you can't get it economically anymore and just any drain cleaner will not work. The drain cleaner that worked so well, the ONLY one that did, was "Drain-Out-Cystrals" by Summit Brands but due to the damned Meth-heads buying it to use for some part of their dope making process it has ceased production, there are still a few containers to be found on-line but at the asking prices it's cheaper to just by regular bluing salts. Drano and other crystal drain cleaners do NOT work well at all!