Linotype vs Lyman #2 for Hunting

[gondwana]

OK, I know the modern composition of Linotype, at least where I live anyway. I get great accuracy from my pistols using Linotype in molds from CastBulletEngineering.com.au and AccurateMolds.com. But I am ready to use boolits in my 375 Ruger and 45-70 rifles on Asian Water Buffalo in the top end of Australia. I am a noob to this board but I have enjoyed great success on big game with (a word they say I should not use :oops: that starts with the letter "j"). I am genuinely looking forward to taking buff with my own boolits, but I have some questions and I will really appreciate your help.

1) I read and hear about the brittleness of Linotype. Does anyone here have experience with Linotype on large game? If you do, please tell me about your experiences.

2) Should I just put myself out of my misery and go straight to Lyman #2?

3) Generally speaking, will L#2 cast slightly smaller in the same mold with all other factors being equal?

I will really appreciate any answers.

[richhodg66]

I would think Lyman #2 would serve you better than Linotype for your intended purpose. In fact, I think you'd be better off with something softer and more malleable than #2. I've never shot a water buffalo, but for deer with .30 calibers, 50/50 Wheel Weights to pure lead with some tin added works well.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Hullo Sir, I could give you more info if you give more info on what you want to do with these boolits, I use a mix that is close to Lyman #2 for hunting , Linotype is to brittle to hunt large boned animals IMHO.
I like the large bore rifles for this work , Has been working for me for a long time in Alaska & the Western states of the 2 rifles you mention, the 45/70 with 405gr boolits is my choice for anything with large teeth, claws, Horns....Good Luck

[barrabruce]

Well all I can input is that at the range a blokes got a 308 neckup to 35-38 cal.
Shooting a gong at 2200fps lino just powders
water quenched wheel weights put a nice divit in the some gong material.

Maybe some hard malleable round nose might work but I wouldn't know squat about bigger stuff like scrubber bulls and buffs.

Apparently one of them ol timer buff shooters like a 22hornet bullet up the nostril when they are looking down the nose at you.



Hell pepper them with 22lr to keep there attention and wop 'em with a 12 guage slug.

Prolly mostly camp fire stories but.

lino will be lighter but larger than say #2 alloy a thou maybe 2 depending on mold size.

Could always paper patch your bullets and alloy hardness can come right down if you wish and still have j word velocities.
.
Barra

[btroj]

An awful lot of American Bison died when hit with bullets far softer than Lyman 2 or linotype.

Think tough, not hard. You want a bullet that will stay together on impact.

[Larry Gibson]

...........

1) I read and hear about the brittleness of Linotype. Does anyone here have experience with Linotype on large game? If you do, please tell me about your experiences.

Based on my experience over 40+ years shooting deer, goats, pigs, elk and a couple bears with cast bullets of several calibers of .30 - 45-70. Linotype is brittle and can easily shatter, especially on large boned animals limiting penetration when you want it most. #2 alloy is much better but is still to hard and brittle in my experience. I suggest adding lead to the #2 alloy to reduce the antimony/tin content from 5% each to 2.5 - 3% each. You can WQ or HT that alloy if additional hardness is needed. That alloy will be more malleable, will give some expansion and yet hold together for sufficient penetration.

2) Should I just put myself out of my misery and go straight to Lyman #2?

Answered under question #1.

3) Generally speaking, will L#2 cast slightly smaller in the same mold with all other factors being equal?

Yes, generally speaking a bullet cast of #2 alloy (or the alloy suggested) will be slightly smaller than if cast of linotype in the same mould. How much (in diameter) depends on the caliber cast all other things being equal.



Larry Gibson

[popper]

For large thick skinned angry animals with big sharp teeth or horns, I think you need to add copper (either in the alloy or jacketed) for penetration. I fired 165 gr 40SW ~1K fps using 3% Sb, 1/2% Cu H.T. into a frozen road gravel pile from ~10 feet. Recovered boolits about 3" in, hardly any damage to them, >90% retention, showed just a bit of expansion. 115gr 9mm factory jacketed was broken & grossly deformed. I did try to pet a buffalo calf near Thermopolis when I was a kid, mama was nice but let me know she didn't appreciate it. I.e., I was STUPID.

[runfiverun]

I'd go with the number-2 alloy.
you are talking a half a thousandth change in diameter going from lino-type to no-2 alloy.
if you can go a bit smaller than that, incrementally add softer lead to the mix and keep the equal tin-antimony proportion.
I know Lloyd Smile uses no-2 alloy to hunt with, and last I heard he got complete penetration on a Bison his last hunt.
5/5 alloy will penetrate like the dickens but doesn't give a whole lot of expansion along the way, cutting it back to 4/4 will help in that regard immensely.
you'll also gain a little boolit weight in the process.

[gondwana]

Thank you one and all for the replies, I really appreciate it. I suspected that L#2 was the place to start and I will start there. I will also do some alloying once the weather cools off a little. I will do some testing on pigs in the back paddock first and hopefully publish the results here.

This board is tremendous, thanks again for sharing your knowledge. Cheers!

[gondwana]

Thank you one and all for the replies, I really appreciate it. I suspected that L#2 was the place to start and I will start there. I will also do some alloying once the weather cools off a little. I will do some testing on pigs in the back paddock first and hopefully publish the results here.

This board is tremendous, thanks again for sharing your knowledge. Cheers!

By pigs I means wild, feral pigs.

[dh2]

for hunting boolits .375 dia. and over I am getting in to 40 to 1 alloy , I have rifles that shoot very well with Lyman #2 but from the one I have dug out of the berm I do not believe I could ever get one to expand hitting an animal regardless of how big it is.

[JeffinNZ]

The older I get, the softer I cast. That said, I believe linotype HP's in .22 are the bee's knees if you want a grenade.

[reloader28]

I agree. For hunting I use 50/50/2%.
I hollow point my 243's 3/8" deep with 1/16" bit in air cooled COWW and it basically acts the same as a v-max within 100yds. BIG mess. Turn skunks inside out at 80yds. Talk about STINK.
I just HP'd my heat treated .22's but not tested yet.

[pls1911]

Gibson hit the bulls-eye answer...
Cast a softer alloy, then heat treat it to hardness greater than Linotype.
You'll get all the shooting benefits of linotype, and all the impact bullet performance of the softer alloy.
I've been doing this for years in most calibers I shoot.
I started as a method to extend my stash of pricey tin, linotype, and babbit metal, and maximize use of my free roofing lead.
At 1800-2000 fps in gas checked 30 calibers, I found that penetration is extreme... never had a bullet not fully penetrate, so I've never recovered one from deer or pigs, but the accuracy and killing performance has always been on par with, or better than, factory rounds.

[MT Chambers]

IMHO....Lino will come apart if it hits big Moose bones, I have experience of that and would add tin to any mix that I'm using on the big stuff, but I generally use a much softer alloy with gas checks.

[jmort]

93/3/3 heat treated will stabilize at 21 BHN and will not be brittle. If I was going to lay out some serious $$$ on a hunt, that is what I would use.

[bigowl]

Personally, I love pure lead (BHN-6) paper-patch bullets. They expand beautifully and PENETRATE ! Plus, if you put one in the boiler-room, chances are very good you'll not be doing much (if any) tracking !

[gondwana]

Paper patching is not on my agenda this year but I certainly do want to investigate it in the future. A mate of mine raves about paper patching.

[gondwana]

Well, I bit the boolit so to speak and obtained some pure lead and some tin in addition to the linotype and Lyman #2 I already have. I will alloy some different mixes and test and compare. I really do appreciate the information others are so willing to share. I will post pic's of the results but that will be a few weeks a way at least. It is very hot and humid at this time of year where I live so I will delay the alloying until then.

[largom]

Allow your boolits to age harden a few weeks before testing for expansion.

Larry

[pls1911]

You might consider what really works well for me:
Lyman #2 equivalent, mixed 50-50 with lead, then heat treated at 450 degrees for one hour and quenched in cold water, resulting in bhn hardness in the mid 20s

The resulting bullet shoots like linotype but without the brittleness. Pigs and deer are DRT with 30-30 and 45/70 shot through the shoulders, and I've never recovered a bullet.

[WBG]

I'm a newbe too and posted a similar question on another thread about cast bullets and Cape Buffalo. This discussion has been very helpful for me. I appreciate it.
Ideally I would like to get a cast bullet to perform like the NorthFork Solid or the Cutting Edge Bullet Solid. I understand that it is possible.
Michael at B&M Rifles and Cartridges has done a lot of research on hunting buffalo in Australia and in Africa using these solid monolithic bullets. ( He is also all about short fat cases and short barrels. That's not the point here.) Similar performance to these bullets are what we want, I think, in our cast bullets for these tough animals. Brian