The 400 Lee Speed project rifle (and friend)

[Von Gruff]

I wasn't sure where to post this thread as it could have gone in a couple of sections but being a project in cartridge and rifle I thought it might be best placed here.

I had been wanting a big brother for the 303 Lee Speed styled sporting rifle http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?246222-A-Lee-Enfield-Sporting-rifle for some time and with conversations with a couple of LE enthusiasts it seemed there were to main contenders with one being the 375-303 and the other on being a 40 cal of some sort. After quite a bit of discussion it came down to my preference for the 40 cal as I had not long sold on the 404 Jeffery I built and was feeling the gap at that end of the gun rack.

It all hinged on hearing about a short chambered 405 Winchester barrel that was a take-off from a marlin LA project so my preference was backed up by the availability of the barrel and the offer of a nice BSA commercial MK l action from a forum member (another forum) who had also voiced an interest in a 40 cal LE

More on the cartridge later---

So the action turned up and it all started in earnest (maybe a bit slower than earnest but underway nevertheless)


This was the action as received
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/BSA_zpsae58b678.png (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/BSA_zpsae58b678.png.html)
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/BSAaction_zpsad3c38f7.png (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/BSAaction_zpsad3c38f7.png.html)
I had a few bits to add to it so am just looking for an early magazine and a dust cover now. I am not going to use the magazine cut off so will stock it without the recess cut out.
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1537_zpsa3a46553.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1537_zpsa3a46553.jpg.html)

[Von Gruff]

As the action has the lobbing site recess and I don't want it to show so will fit a fill in plate to hide it, but possibly am going use it to base an aperture sight off it like I did for the 303 Lee Speed
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/303%20Lee%20Enfield%20sporting%20rifle/3032_zps37ebc7f1.png (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/303%20Lee%20Enfield%20sporting%20rifle/3032_zps37ebc7f1.png.html)
To that end I have made a start with a small square of steel
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1538_zpsc3e8f5d9.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1538_zpsc3e8f5d9.jpg.html)
and spent a couple of hours with files so have nearly got the base shaped up
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1539_zpsbb6cdd12.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1539_zpsbb6cdd12.jpg.html)
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1540_zpsf4cb1fa6.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1540_zpsf4cb1fa6.jpg.html)

[Von Gruff]

Then it was a case of changing the rear lines of the socket to give me a nice rounded edge to the top for the slim Lee Speed socket look and feel. My camera (just a cell ph) is not capable of taking clear close-ups but you can get the idea.

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1545_zps3c541c39.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1545_zps3c541c39.jpg.html)

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1549_zps1ef58c47.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1549_zps1ef58c47.jpg.html)

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1550_zps6f0ef81e.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1550_zps6f0ef81e.jpg.html)

[Von Gruff]

Spent a little time and made the aperture sight. Nothing as fancy (or spendy) but similar to the one I made for the 303 which was a success so this is just more of the same.
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1560_zpsfa979da7.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1560_zpsfa979da7.jpg.html)
It is about as low over the dust cover as possible which keeps the cheek weld right on the butt and makes for a front sight that is not abnormaly high. What it does require is that the rear lug for the dust cover has some of the height ground off but I found that out when one of the bolts I got had the lug treated like that and it does not negatively effect the visual or the holdability of the single remaining lug that is not ground.
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1561_zps0fb646e8.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1561_zps0fb646e8.jpg.html)

[Von Gruff]

The next step was to look at stock blanks and I had semi selected 3 from a plain but well grained one to a nicely marked 1/4 sawn one to a flat sawn one with more grain but no colour so after a conversation with Brian (from NZ Walnut Supplies) I bought this blank..
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/400blank_zps7473b648.png (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/400blank_zps7473b648.png.html)
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/400KEblank_zpsda54c8d2.png (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/400KEblank_zpsda54c8d2.png.html)
The other side is not as well figured but I think that if I set the stock well to the right side of the blank I will cut back into a bit more figure.
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/blank212_zps53fbfcd6.png (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/blank212_zps53fbfcd6.png.html)
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/212_zpsac0fd517.png (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/212_zpsac0fd517.png.html)
This is the walnut supply outlet http://www.nzwalnut.co.nz/
As it turned out the other ones I was looking at came in the same parcel as a friend had decided to go ahead with the 375-303

[Von Gruff]

Laying out the pattern

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/Photo1591_zps4f276443.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/Photo1591_zps4f276443.jpg.html)
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1592_zps9ff30c95.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1592_zps9ff30c95.jpg.html)
Because I have a few more Lee speeds to do after this one I decided to make a framed pattern so I could lay it on the blank and actually see the grain rather than drawing around the pattern then seeing I needed to shift it a bit. This way I can shift the framed pattern round to the most advantageous position, mark two location spots on it and then mark out the pattern from the pattern board. It meant I did shift it from where I originally thought it would go but it will be better for the finished stock.

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1594_zps8d3cecda.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1594_zps8d3cecda.jpg.html)

One of the chaps I had been talking to about the cartridge choice had wanted another 375-303 (he had had one years ago) so he sent down an action and we chose one of the extra blanks so I could do his inlet and shape in tandem with mine. Having the guides set up for drilling the stock bolt hole I did mine in the mornig then got the second one done in the afternoon so they were both at the same stage.

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/Photo1597_zpsb66fe9ce.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/Photo1597_zpsb66fe9ce.jpg.html)

[Von Gruff]

After marking out the action lines, I use the hack saw (fine teeth + fine cut) and cut down to within cooee of the mark and only forward to the rear of the receiver ring.

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1605_zps8e9e8b95.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1605_zps8e9e8b95.jpg.html)

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1606_zpsdad3e14c.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1606_zpsdad3e14c.jpg.html)

and a few minutes with a sharp chisel gets the inletting started.

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1607_zpsc60f5674.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1607_zpsc60f5674.jpg.html)

[Von Gruff]

Next step was to find the dimensions of the mag wall and start an undersized hole though the wood.

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1608_zps73183661.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1608_zps73183661.jpg.html)

One hole at 24mm and the front three at 20mm had it started.
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1609_zps99a5d836.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1609_zps99a5d836.jpg.html)

Finding out the back of the trigger group recess came next and again all cut undersize.

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1613_zpsbca48b00.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1613_zpsbca48b00.jpg.html)


and a little chisel work had it opened up to where I would just get clearance vertically

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1616_zpsa437d4ce.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1616_zpsa437d4ce.jpg.html)

[Von Gruff]

Turning the forestocks over again I could then mark down the action lines and gradually take out the bulk of the wood with the grannies tooth hand router. The depth had been marked in earlier

Note the small mallet It is one I made and is just 6" long and weighs 6 oz. Sometimes it is better to tap lightly and trying to do that with the heavier mallet can cause an oops moment.

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1618_zps6c82ab54.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1618_zps6c82ab54.jpg.html)

The action is stripped of the trigger and spring but the mag release bar stays in place. The top of the trigger housing is opened up with a rat tail file till the mag release bar on the action will just slip over it so the action can start into its first fitting at the rear of the inlet.

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1619_zps880c33e3.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1619_zps880c33e3.jpg.html)

The recoil lug can be marked into place and chiselled down to the action flat

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1620_zps95306f83.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1620_zps95306f83.jpg.html)

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1623_zps4680d8a6.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1623_zps4680d8a6.jpg.html)

And with a little gouge work the start of the receiver ring can be taken out.

After this stage it will be all smoke and scrape work, so things will slow down a bit.

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1624_zpscd4ad74c.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1624_zpscd4ad74c.jpg.html)

[Von Gruff]

Next up I took the lowered portion off the rear of the top side on the planer and filed a radius from the rear action flat onto the socket face. A quick look at this part of the action will show the need for the radius.

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1626_zps22cf3b24.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1626_zps22cf3b24.jpg.html)

Then with a careful measurement I marked out to remove the majority of the wood to clear for the mag release lever anchor point which is the major "draw" that needs to fit tight so it was left proud and worried back as the smoked action was lowered into place by scraping with the bent file scraper.
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1627_zpsee8c9709.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1627_zpsee8c9709.jpg.html)

With the draw roughed into place it was time to work on getting the action down into place. This bent and sharpened file (I ground off the teeth on both flats and edges befoe bending and sharpening) is almost indispensable for the job and far and away the most usefull way of working on the sides of the action inlet. I have previously used chisels etc to scrape but the bent file it the easiest to direct and use.
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1628_zps75d36864.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1628_zps75d36864.jpg.html)

[Von Gruff]

So at 10 3/4 hours both actions are snuggled into the wood
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1629_zps9d2c6d6e.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1629_zps9d2c6d6e.jpg.html)

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1631_zps9ed88293.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1631_zps9ed88293.jpg.html)

[RustyReel]

Nice. I really enjoy your posts. Wish I had skills!!

[swheeler]

VG: you are a talented and patient man, looks good and waiting to see the finished product.

[cold1]

Nice work and thanks for showing how its done.

[enfield]

Very impressive, looking forward to the whole process. thanks.

[leebuilder]

Wicked workmanship, cant wait to see it ready for the line.

[Von Gruff]

Rechecking the inlet and getting the reinforce done across the rear of the socket face rather than through the rear of the stock as is done on the ex mil stocks. To get the position that will be at the centre of the triangle of wood that is left it is a simple matter to measure down to the centre of the through reinforce and transfer it to the new forestocks

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1638_zps04e67547.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1638_zps04e67547.jpg.html)

Drill a series of holes and clean it out to take the end of a 3/16 machine screw

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1637_zps48578ee9.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1637_zps48578ee9.jpg.html)

Set into place with Devcon steel, then with the action face given some Vaseline for mould release, the action can be set into place to make the rear flat against the socket face and to force it down against the main draw. It wil sit overnight and I can get back to it tomorrow.

--------------------

[Von Gruff]

Next effort saw the trigger guard inlet on them both and the magazine well on one finished but 5 1/2 hours bent over the bench in the heat was enough for the day.

Worrying the t/g into place

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1639_zpsa7e5bd0d.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1639_zpsa7e5bd0d.jpg.html)

Almost all the tricky stuff done now.

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1640_zpsd3e40949.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1640_zpsd3e40949.jpg.html)

Then a little time in the shed gets the buttstock wrist into the socket and having an add up I see that I am 27 1/4 hours in to get them both to this stage. The top one (for the 375) has the mag cut-off while I didn't want to use one for my 400 but they are both ready for the barrels now although I can shape up the butts when I get the plates. Havent decided on the grip cap yet.

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/stocks1_zps66f1e074.png (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/stocks1_zps66f1e074.png.html)

[Von Gruff]

Possibly a lessor move but I needed a pair of grip caps so made them from a nice straight grained walnut that should give a little contrast in colour but more importantly will protect the end grain
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1645_zps6d17fcb4.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1645_zps6d17fcb4.jpg.html)
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1646_zps3b04370b.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1646_zps3b04370b.jpg.html)
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1647_zpsdb6f3130.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1647_zpsdb6f3130.jpg.html)

With that taken care of, I returned my attention to the top of the socket wrist. I had done a bit of filing to take away from the square top but after spending a bit of time looking at some Lee Speeds and having one in hand, I decided to take a bit more off it. and have ended up with what should give a nice slim topped stock wrist

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1656_zps58f298ac.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1656_zps58f298ac.jpg.html)

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1660_zps91083532.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1660_zps91083532.jpg.html)

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1663_zpsa3a6119d.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1663_zpsa3a6119d.jpg.html)

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1662_zps6232468d.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1662_zps6232468d.jpg.html)

[W.R.Buchanan]

Garry: Thanks for posting this over here. I hope to see the rest of it as it gets done.

This is an excellent tutorial on gun building that is relevant to many other projects on this board.

Randy

[Von Gruff]

after consultation the 375-303 action was given the same wrist treatment, the TOTW checkered steel butt plates were fitted so I set to on the buttstocks and got some shape into them. Will not be able to do much more now till there are a couple of barrels threaded up.
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/stocks3_zps9370b967.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/stocks3_zps9370b967.jpg.html)

[Von Gruff]

As for the barrel I had got onto one that was a take-off and had been chambered for the a shortened 405 Winchester --the 405 x 2.2. It had been fitted to a Marlin Lever action so needed som work on it. The thread was much smaller than the Enfield action so sleeve was machined up and threaded onto it. One downside was that it had two dovetail cuts on the underside and one for the front sight. I had ordered a reamer to lengthen the chamber but had to keep in mind the Lee Enfield magazine length. I decided to cut the chamber to 2.410 and trim 405 Winchester brass to 2.405 and with the cast bullet I intended to use I could load to a COAL of 3.045 inches. LE ammo is 3.07. This case length would also suit a jacketed bullet.
This is the cast bullet ( standard dimensions) but the mould has been ordered to suit the barrel dimensions.

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/The400enfieldcastbullet_zpse8ebc011.png (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/The400enfieldcastbullet_zpse8ebc011.png.html)

[Von Gruff]

I started the barrel inlet but can not finish it till the rechamber is done, it gets timed to my action and snugged into place. In the meantime I decided to make a couple of extra tools to help with the channel finish. To date I had been using parts of old barrels as push scrapers but that is not always the best way to do it so I cut a 3/4 inch lengths of the end of the barrel bits, drilled them to 7mm and hardened them

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/Photo1712_zps7cee86d9.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/Photo1712_zps7cee86d9.jpg.html)

Some long 1/4 in bolts were set for the handles and 3 nuts were ground down so they would be a back nut and unobtrusive for scraping. Three lengths of 7/8 in dowel were drilled, the heads were cut from the bolts and some fins made on the shank to hold them into the handle

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/Photo1714_zps4bfd2c73.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/Photo1714_zps4bfd2c73.jpg.html)


A bend on the bolt and the handle tapped into place and I have three sizes of scrapers. They may not look it from the pic but the bends are all the same and the scraper heads are reversible and sharpenable so should do for quite a while.


http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/Photo1715_zps7578ee56.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/Photo1715_zps7578ee56.jpg.html)

[Von Gruff]

To fix - hide the dovetails a piece of steel was filed to shape and tapped into the first one

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1699_zpsa42ccf01.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1699_zpsa42ccf01.jpg.html)

A bit of cleaning up and it would almost hide with a touch of blue


http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1701_zps84446a8b.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1701_zps84446a8b.jpg.html)

The centre one was done the same but would be used to position the barrel mounted sling eye. A piece of shotgun barrel was used to make a base for the sling eye


http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1705_zps26890747.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1705_zps26890747.jpg.html)

a hole was drilled into the dovetail, the sling screw was cut and a groove made round the stub so when it was all soldered together it would make a good bond.


http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1707_zpsd6c36030.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1707_zpsd6c36030.jpg.html)

[Von Gruff]

Some of the square has been taken from the forestock and this is how it will sit till the reamer gets here about mid to late march

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/stock4_zps5c15bbf4.png (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/stock4_zps5c15bbf4.png.html)

[Von Gruff]

The barrel for the 375-303 turned up so the forestock could be finish inletted and given some shape. Sitting at 150grtit sandpaper finish for now but I do like the balance and swing this one has.

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/2_zpsjliymgvr.png (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/2_zpsjliymgvr.png.html)

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/1_zps83rsqute.png (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/1_zps83rsqute.png.html)

[Von Gruff]

I was perusing another site where there is a great deal of very good Lee Speed data and saw a thread on the trigger guard having a waist ground into it and while I had seen it before on Mausers and had done it on my DWM custom I hadn't seen it done on Lee Speeds so this morning I took the TG off my 400 and the one from my 303 and ground on them a little. I kept the 400's a little less curved to denote the heavier cartridge but both are markedly different to what they had been
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1748_zpsfoa0kwu4.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1748_zpsfoa0kwu4.jpg.html)http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1749_zpsyxzbxdin.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1749_zpsyxzbxdin.jpg.html)
I had been unable to source ebony here in NZ but a friend has got some for me off shore so I decided to do a forend tip on the 400 which I hadn't intended to do and that meant the plain walnut grip cap would not do or match the tip so will be replaced with the last small piece I had in the shed. I have cut it as a grip blank and will be working on over the next day or two
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1750_zpscpwhn5bt.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1750_zpscpwhn5bt.jpg.html)

[Von Gruff]

With that in mind I sorted through the router bits and by changing the end bearing to a smaller size and being just a bit careful I was able to sit the router in the vise and by holding the cap with a piece of dowel only had it thrown out of my hand a couple of times but goterdid. Will shave the top down when it is installed.

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1752_zpstin2yoa8.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1752_zpstin2yoa8.jpg.html)

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1753_zpsab5piyhg.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1753_zpsab5piyhg.jpg.html)

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1755_zps88tvd62x.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1755_zps88tvd62x.jpg.html)

[MaLar]

Being a carpenter most of my years and haveing seen a few guys lose fingers.
Your router work scares me I'd never try that by hand.
Watched my father lose a finger on a radial arm saw. It was turned off and just barely turning when he reached in to get a small piece of wood out.

[Von Gruff]

I was a little concerned for that very reason so using a light piece of scrap metal I marked the two holes of my pattern (that I use to pin the cap to the stock with 1/8 in brazing rod) and tapering the end added a pair of pins that would locate on the base of the cap so it could be held securely.

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1757_zps5feytfs8.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1757_zps5feytfs8.jpg.html)

[crawfobj]

Awesome thread and work. Thanks for sharing this. Can't wait to see the finished rifles.

[leebuilder]

A work of art
wow, i am in awe of your skills.

[Von Gruff]

I had got the 375-303 finished as far as I am going with it so it can be returned to its home base for sights and blue. The blank didn't have a lot of grain definition but the alkanet oil has bought a subtle tone that has made it rather nice
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/3_zps8u029dzn.png (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/3_zps8u029dzn.png.html)

[Von Gruff]

Having got the new ebony grip cap made for my 400 I had to cut the walnut one off.
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1759_zpshmbyurhr.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1759_zpshmbyurhr.jpg.html)

It took a little time to file the saw cut back to the stock wood and make it flat for the new cap but once that was done I made new brass dowels and got it epoxied into place.
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1760_zpspro00zwp.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1760_zpspro00zwp.jpg.html)

A trim up of the stock wood with needle files and fine paper had things reconciled again. I had made the new cap a couple of thou smaller so the stockwood could be blended back into the cap dimensions.

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1772_zpsr2p3rfp5.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1772_zpsr2p3rfp5.jpg.html)

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1773_zps788puwuc.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1773_zps788puwuc.jpg.html)

Am pleased I decided to change things as I like the contrast of the new cap. The plain caps had been used initially because the original BSA 375x2 1/2 had a grade of finish without a cap. I had wanted to protect the end grain and had done the 400 the same but being able to get the ebony changed my mind before I had gone too far.

[JeffinNZ]

You are a more patient man than I Gruff. Inletting a Lee action like that. Phewph!

[leebuilder]

Realy nice. Thanks for sharing.
like your homemade barrel channel tools great idea, i made my own too but with much more effort than yours took,, realy great !!!.
The 375 303 looks great.

[blackbahart]

hi VG
I really like the look of the 375 with the WR contour on the barrel ,pitty the wood didn't stand out after all the work ,all in a wounderful result
Cheers Peter

[Von Gruff]

hi VG
I really like the look of the 375 with the WR contour on the barrel ,pitty the wood didn't stand out after all the work ,all in a wounderful result
Cheers Peter

Peter, the profile for the 375-303 was copied from the BSA original 375 Rimmed (not the W R)

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/BSA_Catalog_zpstehllmul.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/BSA_Catalog_zpstehllmul.jpg.html)

[gnoahhh]

Superb! No, very super-duper superb!

[Ballistics in Scotland]

What marvelous work. Somebody has to do it! Just think, there are people who do all this for an investment cast action! There are also people who get artistic grants from governments for work which has the artistic qualities of a chocolate mouse by comparison.

They are splendid rifles, and the Long Lee-Enfield is my favourite Lee action. There are very few shots in ordinary deer hunting for which you can honestly blame failure on such a rifle, or on its cartridges, either original or most that are devised for it. A rifle done exactly as you have done would be all of that, so I hope you don't mind me floating some ideas.

I think I have an ambivalent attitude to the dust cover. It is an excellent thing for the iron sight user to have, but it is impedes the already difficult task of mounting a scope. I positively dislike the Scout scope system, with shorter eye relief than a handgun scope, but mounted with the objective forward of the magazine. Would a scope be in keeping? There were pretty good scopes (compared with no scope at all, of course) by the year the first British Lee was hatched, and I would suspect that a small minority of civilian shooters made experiments right from the start. I don't see any way of keeping the dust cover (other than in an envelope clearly marked for posterity), but if you want to make a side mount you have the two screwholes on the butt socket and the ejector screw hole to play with.

I am not quite an ebony enthusiast, although I have had a couple of thick pieces lying about for thirty years. It expands, contracts and cracks more than many other woods, especially when a thin piece is crossgrain to walnut. My preference would be horn, which is amazingly tough and stable stuff. and you can buy blocks and slabs fairly easily on eBay. The same applies to ebony, and "guitar fingerboard" will find it. But watch out you don't get one already grooved for the little piece of profiled wire they use to choke off a note at the desired pitch.

Here is a website for knifemakers, with a very wide range of exotic woods, horn etc. I have always thought that modern "damascus" steel is a bit of a con trick for knife blades. You can get far better modern steels, and this supposedly miraculous art has become far more commonplace of late. But a piece of damascus, shaped and acid etched, can make a most attractive pistol grip cap. If you want a metal reinforcing crossbolt at the rear of the forend, cutlery rivets are excellent. They aren't rivets at all, but blind nuts designed to be screwed onto a bit of threaded rod, and the end with the slot filed off flush with the surface.

http://www.knifemaking.com/default.asp

Your moulded edge grip cap is a thing of beauty. I agree, I would beware of doing this on a full-scale router. Fixing it to something may keep your fingers safe, but the cap can still shoot off into orbit with a notch in it. I think I would use the Dremel router or router table, which is far less likely to do you damage.


I can't see that the Enfield butt socket is a weaker or less accurate way of fitting the butt than any other. The trouble is the forend, with its tendency to press more or less on the front of the socket with differences in expansion. I believe I would fit a long barrel band for scope base or rear sight, and I would glass bed it into the forend so that definitively fixes its right position. Then I would inlay a piece of firm rubber sheet into the rear of the forend, so that it perpetually exerted pressure on the socket.

[Von Gruff]

Both the owner of the 375 and I have been aperture sight shooters for quite some time and these will both be sighted with them as are our other Lee Speed rifles in 303. I will definitely be looking for a dust cover for my 400 so I have a light and a heavy rifle with the 303 and want them to both look the same so if anyone has a dust cover that they would sell on I would be most gratefull.
There was a scope sighted Mk l* (LSA) that my fried bought home from the gun show a few weeks back and that had a QD side mounted scope and the dust cover had much of the left side cut away for the side mount. Personally I think the aperture sight is more than suitable for out to 180-200 yds and in that case a scope may just be a superfluous encumberance.
I have used ebony on rifles for both caps and tips for a while and haven't struck the trouble you speaks of as yet. I hadn't been chasing buff horn although I do have a couple of bits that could be made into caps if I was so inclined but will hold off on that till the forend tip can be made from the same material.
While I can do the grip cap in wood or horn, doing the same thing from Damascus is a step further than my inclination goes.
I have to disagree on the use of my full sized router for making the caps as having been in the joinery/cabinet making and carpentry business after starting back in 1967 and even though I may be retired now, I think I have a reasonable handle on what is safe and what is chancey.
The first one was simply a trial and since then a solid plate has been made for the base of the router and with the two pins in the hold down plate the next ones I made were as stable and firmly held as could be had so I will continue to make them like this.

[Frank46]

Which version of the 375/303 cartridge did you use?. I frequent the nitroexpress.com site about once a week and the gents there were kind enough to dig up a print for me of the 37 rimmed. Which is the 303 cartridge necked up to 375 with no other changes. I have a 1x14 twist 375 bbl and plan on using cast bullets only from about 250 to 300 grains. And will be done up using either a #5 action or a #4 action. Still undecided as yet. Love your work. I'm one of those that need a good solid guide when cutting wood. Even then it doesn't always turn out like I want. Frank

[Von Gruff]

Frank,

I believe that the same chamber is in this barrel. This is not a cartridge I have loaded for so don't have the data that will be used for it. I know I am looking forward to getting the 400 shooting though. Lots to learn with this one.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Which version of the 375/303 cartridge did you use?. I frequent the nitroexpress.com site about once a week and the gents there were kind enough to dig up a print for me of the 37 rimmed. Which is the 303 cartridge necked up to 375 with no other changes. I have a 1x14 twist 375 bbl and plan on using cast bullets only from about 250 to 300 grains. And will be done up using either a #5 action or a #4 action. Still undecided as yet. Love your work. I'm one of those that need a good solid guide when cutting wood. Even then it doesn't always turn out like I want. Frank

I think the .375/.303 to which you are referring is the Westley Richards cartridge also known as the .375 x 2½in. Nitro-Express? I doubt if there is any significant difference in performance, ease of loading etc., but the snag is that you would have to use .405 Winchester brass, which is more expensive and not in totally reliable supply like the .303 is. On the other hand, in ouir heart of hearts we all want something we can call nitro-express.

[BigEyeBob]

Nice work Gruff . I like the style of the stock .
I have made a grip cap from buffalo horn using my router table to shape it ,the first one took off at great speed and had a couple of chunks out of it. The second one came out good ,I made it for my 96 Mauser in 25-303 which I am getting around to restocking
It's the end grain that causes the problem I think .
I like your holding tool for the job though Its a good idea .

Yes , to scope or not , I don't know , my recent BSA Lee Metford purchase has a comb on the stock and a lot of drop , it also has been drilled and tapped for a side mount ,with threaded plug screws now hiding the threaded holes.Today I managed to find and purchase side mount that is compatable and will decide whether I will fit it or not .
I may look at getting a butt stock with less drop and a pancake type cheek piece .Depends on how the rifle fits .
Ill find out when I get it in my hands. Just waiting on the Fuzznicks to get my Permit back .
Kev

133437133436

[Von Gruff]

You got a good score with that mag Kev but I agree that the stock needs some work. It looks like it was done with an idea to make the rifle conform to some modern style some time back, but somehow it has missed the mark. A small detail but that is a great base to work from. When I was doing a stock for a martini cadet a while back that was to be used with a scope I simply changed the exit point of the stock bolt hole by coming down the butt by a good 3/4 " and that effectively raised the comb line while keeping the overall shape the same as original and while a close look showed the lines had changed, the familiar shape was retained, without the need for raised cheekpieces etc.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I neither knew nor would wish to disparage your experience or skill with the router. But for the average gun tinkerer with an occasionally used router in his workshop (me to perfection) I think it is risky. I believe I would epoxy the workpiece to a stout slab of wood with an intervening sandwich of wood and brass sheet the size of the desired buttcap. The pilot of the router bit would rest on brass without wearing the edge of the workpiece, and it could be sawn off through the wood when finished. Just a little heat should then liberate the brass without damaging the ebony or horn.

I have see stocks much, much worse than Kev's. I still have a 1968 Parker-Hale catalogue with some sporting Lee-Enfields. The cheaper grades, No1 and No4, ran from cut-down military woodwork to plain but rather pleasing new stocks. But the "best" grade, only a No4, had a straight forend with backsloped, California-style tip in contrasting wood, a high Monte Carlo cheekpiece (they used shotguns at Monte Carlo!) and white-like spacers. James Paris Lee could have hacked Roy Weatherby on the shins for that.

Kev's butt looks to have some nice checkering, and certainly a lot of checkering, and it would be a shame to scrap it. The cheekpiece curves up at the rear, which serves no useful purpose, and it would look less elevated if it was straightened in line with the rest of its length. If it was thinned at the top, it might well bring the eye into line with an aperture sight.

When I was helping someone build a light sporting Martini-Enfield once, I ground a curve into the rear edge of the butt socket. More than appearance, the idea was to reduce the chances of a notorious Martini disease, chips of wood coming away at the front top of the stock. There should be no need for this on the Lee action, but it bears thinking about.

I also bent the stock supporting bolt where it emerged from its threaded socket to give it a straighter stock. This means you can't turn the bolt, so it has to be full-length, and the butt draw tight by a nut immediately under the buttplate. But this lets you out of any weakness at the bottom of the head-diameter hole, which is fine in a military stock, but not a slimmer one. The picture is my hole-drilling... er... thing.



133469

[Euan]

Which version of the 375/303 cartridge did you use?. I frequent the nitroexpress.com site about once a week and the gents there were kind enough to dig up a print for me of the 37 rimmed. Which is the 303 cartridge necked up to 375 with no other changes. I have a 1x14 twist 375 bbl and plan on using cast bullets only from about 250 to 300 grains. And will be done up using either a #5 action or a #4 action. Still undecided as yet. Love your work. I'm one of those that need a good solid guide when cutting wood. Even then it doesn't always turn out like I want. Frank

Frank, The 303/375 version I used on this rifle is the same one that i have used for over 35 years. It is simply the standard 303 British necked to .375". It has to be fairly simple for me. I like the idea of the 375 2.5" express, But the availability of 303 brass over here wins hands down.
Rifle was chambered with a standard 303 Brit reamer with the appropriate collar fitted, The the neck and throat was reamed with a Manson 375 Neck & Throater.
Cheers Euan.

[FrankG]

The 375 on 303 brass is the same one I had JES bore the 303 tired barrel out to .Simple fix for a bad bore. Only problem was the feed ramp does not like the 375449 Lyman bullet unless you run the bolt forward like you mean it !
Im still working on my stock , with Garrys guidance .

[BigEyeBob]

The cheek piece is also dished ,I suspect it was made for some one with a very fat face. The checkering goes all the way over the top of the wrist and has just a thin space about 3-4mm along the bottom ,almost complete wrap around .I will lok at Scottys suggestion when I get my mits on it and probably call Gordon Cussens to see what he says.

[Frank46]

I had given some thought to the 375x2 1/2 nitro express but in reading some posts on the nitroexpress forum where a poster in the lee speed forum was having problems with either getting it to feed from a standard lee enfield mag or the cartridge as loaded was too long for the standard lee enfield mag and that the lee speeds had a specific mag for that cartridge. What won me over to the 37 rimmed was that I already had lots of new brass in both remington, and IVI military brass from Canada. But also have some Sellier & Bellot, Greek HXP and privi brass all once fired. Plus I got a nice 375 blank on gunboards. Just have to scrape up enough $$$ and go to PTG and get a finish reamer made up. I'm getting some different styles of cast boolits from some very kind members here to get an idea of what the throat dimensions should be and will send some dummy rounds along with the copy of the 37 rimmed print and hopefully they can build a reamer for me. Not hunting anymore so should get some good range time with this. Iron sights or scope is what I am trying to decide on. Have a nice Lyman 10x All American scope with the adjustable objective. Unfortunately not really familiar with the gunsmiths down here. So don't know what they are capable of doing. Frank

[lar45]

Von Gruff. I have been following your Lee Speed builds and can't really find the correct words, except WOW. Your work is just outstanding. I wish that I lived down under and could just sit quietly in the corner and watch how you do what you do. Thank you for posting all the pics with the narative of how and why along at each step.
I love your choice of caliber, you should be able to get that 320 up to almost 2300 fps.
I've had a stock blank still sitting in it's box for the better part of 10 years. Your work is inspiring, I may get the block out and start whittleing on it.

Glenn.

[Von Gruff]

Thanks Lars, I have played with wood for most of my life but it is the metal side of the addiction where I have little experience. A hacksaw, grinder and files are about the extent of my metalworking tools and if I cant do it with that I have to take it to someone who can, so that puts the brake on some of my projects. I really admire the things that skilled men can do with the lathe and mill but the cost of setting up and the time to learn them makes it unreasonable to think about at my age.

[Gert Odendaal]

Being a carpenter most of my years and haveing seen a few guys lose fingers.
Your router work scares me I'd never try that by hand.
Watched my father lose a finger on a radial arm saw. It was turned off and just barely turning when he reached in to get a small piece of wood out.

Buzz Ludman says" do one thing a day that scares you" it seems Von Gruff is not easily scared...:shock:...or another saying " no pain , no gain..." this procedure can be done with relative safety build in by working against the rotation and adjusting small steps to get to the desired profile. I do all my buffalo grip caps free hand , the only thing that needs to be taken in to account is that you need to be fresh and not tired when doing this type of router work. Von Gruff your work is of outstanding quality, like mentioned before, I would have like to have you as a mentor...thank you kindly for sharing your skills.

Gert

[Von Gruff]

Von Gruff, I love your choice of caliber, you should be able to get that 320 up to almost 2300 fps.

Glenn.

That is what QL has been telling me with 3031 seeming to be the best bet with 2300fps within 42 - 43k psi

[MaLar]

Buzz Ludman says" do one thing a day that scares you" it seems Von Gruff is not easily scared...:shock:...or another saying " no pain , no gain..." this procedure can be done with relative safety build in by working against the rotation and adjusting small steps to get to the desired profile. I do all my buffalo grip caps free hand , the only thing that needs to be taken in to account is that you need to be fresh and not tired when doing this type of router work. Von Gruff your work is of outstanding quality, like mentioned before, I would have like to have you as a mentor...thank you kindly for sharing your skills.

Gert

Not everyone is tool savvy. And when I go to work on a rifle or fix some thing delicate.
I'm glad to have all my digits.

It's not just an inconvenience to lose a finger.
I'll tell a friend about Van Gruff I'm sure he'll fell better about sawing of his trigger finger.

[Hamish]

Not everyone is tool savvy. And when I go to work on a rifle or fix some thing delicate. I'm glad to have all my digits. It's not just an inconvenience to lose a finger.
I'll tell a friend about Van Gruff I'm sure he'll fell better about sawing of his trigger finger.

Its kind of the same thing when you look at how some folks jump out of airplanes into the ocean with guns strapped to them to make night raids in the face of good odds they may not return, and some folks are scared to death of roller coasters,,,,,,(shrug). What is "dangerous" for some is merely a situation with controlled variables for others.

VG's chisel work, and anyone who takes care and pride in their inlet work, are a constant reminder to me on the lesson of patience. At some point I would like to see VG add a pic or two of how he sharpens. As important as a good eye and a steady hand are, I have always been fascinated by the different ways folks keep their tools sharp, and first and foremost, to do this kind of work, the tools must be SHARP.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Thanks Lars, I have played with wood for most of my life but it is the metal side of the addiction where I have little experience. A hacksaw, grinder and files are about the extent of my metalworking tools and if I cant do it with that I have to take it to someone who can, so that puts the brake on some of my projects. I really admire the things that skilled men can do with the lathe and mill but the cost of setting up and the time to learn them makes it unreasonable to think about at my age.

It annoys me a bit when I hear someone saying, about fine craftsmanship of any kind, "He must have wonderful hands." Pain is not total evidence of gain, and a person can have all the skills and technical training in the world, and do very well when someone hands him a dimensioned drawing and says "Make this." But on a project like yours, it's nothing beside the ability to see pictures in your head, and know what you want to get done.

Back on cheekpieces, I think any sort of concave cheekpiece (lengthwise) is a mistake. It ought to slide along your face in recoil, without jolting your head upwards. Even an upward curve behind the static position of your cheek can do that as the rifle bounces back from your shoulder. About fifteen years ago I had thoracic surgery - nothing cardiac, but it was only years later, when I had an x-ray, that I realized how far down the stainless staples went. Three weeks later I still had trouble finding a comfortable position in which to lie, but I fired a friend's 6.5mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer with no discomfort at all. I wish I had tried my .300H&H. I'm still convinced that whatever we might imagine about the shoulder, it is a jolted brain that causes recoil discomfort.

You have got Marples carving tools, made in another but I'm sure not more salubrious part of Her Majesty's Dominions! I bought the set of six of those little brown handled ones somewhere around 1969, for £4 4 shillings. I never liked them quite as much as the even smaller ones with boxwood handles which I had bought for £1 17/6 when I was at school. I accidentally dropped one of that set in my airline hand baggage a few years ago, and had it confiscated in the airport. But it was only one of the flat chisels, and I can make that blade when I find any one of the set on eBay.

[Gert Odendaal]

Regarding the strange designed cheek piece, (my .458 Mannlicher Schoenauer ) as you pointed it out as a mistake in design , I will be shooting this rifle shortly with it`s strange cheek piece and let you know how comfortable it is/not is.. Von Gruff, my apologies if I trespass on your thread...but knowing you to be a craftsmen of great skills willing to share your knowledge with us, this insert will be acceptable to you... your project really is of outstanding quality and skill...

http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt24/GertOdendaal/DSC_0175.jpg

[Von Gruff]

Yes the flat chisels are marples that were recomended as the best back when I started my apprenticeship in the late 60's and I have never had any reason to doubt their quality. They take and hold an excellent edge that I sharpen with "feel" My father was very good at getting knives sharp and I probably wore out a couple learning to keep a common angle and so it was a simple matter to transfer that to my chisels and plane blades. I hold to the angle and work in small circles till I have gone the full length of the stone then turn the stone and do the same again and a small burr has been raised. Keeping to this type of sharpening keeps the stone as flat as is possible, then I will make a couple of strokes with the back of the chisel flat on the stone to remove the burr. A single stroke again on the face to raise a miniature burr and a second stroke on the back is all it takes. A sharp chisel will be able to cut a fine shaving of end grain and leave the face of the cut smooth.
My set of carving chisels are Marples as well and I sharpen the with slip stones.

My planes (#4 1/2, rebate, and palm) along with spokeshaves (flat and curve based) are all English Stanley except the palm plane (still a Stanley) which is made in the US.

Both these sets of chisels and the planes / spokeshaves have given me near 50 years of excellent service and will continue to do so long after I have gone.

[Von Gruff]

I am not a great fan of cheekpieces but if I was to do one this is about the right shape in my mind. nice curved bottom edge with very symmetrical ends that balance with the overall stock shape. The only detractor (if it could be called that and that is debatable) is the comb fluting. I try to bring the comb nose back a little from the centre of the grip cap )vertically) which has been touted as the correct place to end the comb nose and by having it closer to the rear of the grip cap I can shape the top of the wrist with a narrow comb nose and have no need for the fluting. Of course the more open grip negates this concern but I have a comment or two on that style as well

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/Swede006_zps8jvkyghn.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/Swede006_zps8jvkyghn.jpg.html)

I should credit the owner /maker of this rifle but I clipped the picture and a few more from AR and didn't note who had done it

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Yes, that is about as good as cheekpieces get. So many people bring them further down or further forward than the really need to be. It is very difficult to make a smooth, unbroken curve all round, into the rest of the butt. So it makes sense to have that slightly stepped-up line.

I'd agree a fluted comb is unnecessary, unless maybe on the sort of stock where someone tries to raise the head to scope level by width instead of height. In any case it only needs to be on the side where your trigger hand will be. With some pistol grips (not, I think, this one, it may make it easier to put a strengthening web of wood on top of the weakest part, without looking clumsy.

Being reminded, I did an eBay search for that Marples chisel, and found a set of five out of six, not too outrageously expensive, but badly rusted. I think I could have restored the ferrule, but I just couldn't bear to have four rusty Marples tools looking accusingly at me.

Still, eBay is marvelous for such things. The Record spokeshave I inherited from my father at the age of two had a cracked blade, from edge to adjusting-screw slot, and I found a replacement blade for that. A good pair of spokeshaves, flat and convex beds, are tools I have a great belief in. Someday I will find a really good shipwright's mast spokeshave, with a concave curve left to right, without paying tool collectors' prices. I'm still not enough of a carpenter to see the grain direction totally reliably. But I can feel it with one of those.

[Frank46]

VonGruff, are you planning to shoot cast or jacketed in your 375 cartridge?. And what twist are you going to use?. This is really becoming a very interesting thread. Frank

[Frank46]

FrankG, I see you mentioned having JES rebore your rifle and using the 37 rimmed in it. Did Jes only do the rebore or did he do both the rebore and rechambering as well?. Frank

[Von Gruff]

Frank, The 303/375 version I used on this rifle is the same one that i have used for over 35 years. It is simply the standard 303 British necked to .375". It has to be fairly simple for me. I like the idea of the 375 2.5" express, But the availability of 303 brass over here wins hands down.
Rifle was chambered with a standard 303 Brit reamer with the appropriate collar fitted, The the neck and throat was reamed with a Manson 375 Neck & Throater.
Cheers Euan.

I had said in an earlier post that I was doing this for a friend and Euan has answered here about the chamber. This is not my rifle so I wont be loading either cast or jacketed but knowing Euan I don't believe it will ever see a bought jacketed bullet although it may have a diet of jacketed made from cut down 223 brass and a forced lead core. Will let Euan answer questions about the loading and shooting of this rifle and will content myself with the 400 which I started this thread to document

[FrankG]

FrankG, I see you mentioned having JES rebore your rifle and using the 37 rimmed in it. Did Jes only do the rebore or did he do both the rebore and rechambering as well?. Frank

JES rebored 375 leaving what was left of chamber and throated it . That way you can just open neck on 303 brass load and shoot . It leaves just the tiniest bit of shoulder on case . And C&H has dies for around $80 .

And now lets go back to Garry's excellent work :drinks:

[W.R.Buchanan]

I am not a great fan of cheekpieces but if I was to do one this is about the right shape in my mind. nice curved bottom edge with very symmetrical ends that balance with the overall stock shape. The only detractor (if it could be called that and that is debatable) is the comb fluting. I try to bring the comb nose back a little from the centre of the grip cap )vertically) which has been touted as the correct place to end the comb nose and by having it closer to the rear of the grip cap I can shape the top of the wrist with a narrow comb nose and have no need for the fluting. Of course the more open grip negates this concern but I have a comment or two on that style as well

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/Swede006_zps8jvkyghn.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/Swede006_zps8jvkyghn.jpg.html)

I should credit the owner /maker of this rifle but I clipped the picture and a few more from AR and didn't note who had done it

I would like to know who established all the little relationships of this to that and idiosyncrasies in stock making. I have books on it but it appears there is only some loose rules and the rest is left to your imagination. I guess a lot of it has evolved over the centuries and I know that what is considered right in this era is slightly different than 80 years ago. One feature I am aware of is how Combs now are more in line with the bore than previously was done. Reduction of Felt Recoil being the motivator for this change.

The few I am aware of came from a Whelen Catalog, and the one I have heard elsewhere is that the top line of the flutes should aim at the toe of the stock when done. I used that one on my Marlin 1895 when I redid the stock on it.

On this stock one of the subtleties is how the Shadow Line progressively increases in width from front to back and it looks like he got it perfect. Also a cool piece of wood, however I don't care for the checkering pattern at all as the back line doesn't go with the rest of the curves on the wrist and cheek piece at all. I think a Fleur de Leis pattern would have been more appropriate in this case. Given the beautiful Cheek Piece it is like the pattern's complexity is not similar or equal to that other work?

I guess all of this comes down to beauty in the eye of the beholder or maybe just my .02.

Randy

[Von Gruff]

I have done quite a piece on the rifle stock on another forum so during the day I will copy it over here for a discussion on the stock design

[W.R.Buchanan]

Garry; any information will be appreciated, and your skill level is such that I personally would listen closely.

Maybe others will as well.

Randy

[Von Gruff]

Some points to start a discussion

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?272468-The-Rifle-Stock

[woodbutcher]

:D Hi Gruff.Outstanding craftsmanship.Thank you sir for a delightful thread.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[Von Gruff]

The ACC 415-320W mould arrived along with some 405 Win cases so a quick casting session and trimming the 405 cases back to 2.410 allowed the bullet to be seated out to 3.065 which worked through the mag. The reamer was in the same package so within the next couple of weeks it should be at the GS to have a L E barrel stubbed to suit the 400 barrel and it will be all on for finishing the forestock and getting to shooting.
Shortening the cases to 2.425 and then they were trimmed to length (click to view vid)
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/th_Video0000_zps0volggbd.mp4 (http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Video0000_zps0volggbd.mp4)

And a dummy cartridge alongside a couple of 303's
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/303%20to%20400_zpsdmu46kzb.png (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/303%20to%20400_zpsdmu46kzb.png.html)

[Von Gruff]

Having changed the grip cap for ebony the forend tip was due to be done and the package that I had been waiting for with the reamer had arrived but it also contained a piece of ebony along with a cast bullet mould (Toms ACC 415-320W) and some other needed bits and pieces thanks to a forum member.
There is enough ebony to get 3 tips and caps out of this piece

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/stock%206_zpsce3oolz6.png (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/stock%206_zpsce3oolz6.png.html)

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/stock%205_zps0yok0wty.png (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/stock%205_zps0yok0wty.png.html)

Having reshaped the trigger guard to have a waist it seemed only right to ease the transition into the TG over the sharp edges of the rear screw lugs so thie 400's action was treated to this modification and my 303's was done at the same time
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1830_zpspinjzs6u.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1830_zpspinjzs6u.jpg.html)

Hope to organise the GS to stub a Lee Enfield barrel to replace the flat collar that the 400 has at the moment and get it reamed out to the length I need for the dummy cartridge within the fortnight so this project is heading for completion soon.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Garry: I did the same Rear Screw Lug easing mod to both my #4's. It makes a big difference in the feel when you're coming up on the trigger pull. That sharp edge is annoying to say the least. I figured it out right off.

I think you would see more "detailing" of firearms if people just fondled their guns more. I usually sit in front of the TV at night holding whatever gun I'm working on,,, touching it and rubbing on it, cocking and dry firing, until I find all the sharp edges.

What people don't realize is that not doing this will sometimes result in finding these little problems when you least expect them and redirecting your attention to a cut trigger finger when you need to make the shot is not what you are looking for. It can be easily avoided by simply handling the gun a lot before you use it.

My Ruger Super Blackhawk Bisley feels great until you cock it. Then the front edge of the trigger hangs below the frame of the gun and it is so sharp it will cut you. This is not something you want from a gun who's primary purpose would as a back up gun in the field. Simply buffing a radius on that front edge so it fairs in with the frame instead of hanging below it solved the problem.

This is also something I never would have found with out extensive handling of the gun during my detailing phase.

Most all generic guns need some amount of hand work to be nice. Ex Military weapons come under this heading too. The cheaper the gun the more work they will need. And this is specifically because of the fact that eliminating hand work on guns is the best way to reduce their cost.

I also gives you the opportunity to make the gun yours in a meaningful way.

Randy

[Von Gruff]

Exactly that and I do the same when I am getting to the end stage of shaping the stock by having it sit by my chair in the evening and picking it up and mounting it dozens of times which is the only way to really to isolate the compromise we accomadate if it is held in hand for any length of time. It needs constant "fresh" hands to really "feel" the subtleties of handling.
I rang the GS yesterday so I could arrange to have the work done that is next on the adgenda for the 400 but he is away for a few weeks so everything is on hold for the time being, at least for the 400 although I got the tip shaped to the forend as it sits .
I was given a couple of bits of buffalo horn so had made a grip cap for the 303 Lee Speed I did a while back so cut the hardwood one off and replaced it with the buff horn
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/303%20Lee%20Enfield%20sporting%20rifle/Photo1789_zpskwrkuyqv.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/303%20Lee%20Enfield%20sporting%20rifle/Photo1789_zpskwrkuyqv.jpg.html)
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/303%20Lee%20Enfield%20sporting%20rifle/Photo1790_zpstjhszlsi.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/303%20Lee%20Enfield%20sporting%20rifle/Photo1790_zpstjhszlsi.jpg.html)
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/303%20Lee%20Enfield%20sporting%20rifle/Photo1791_zps3fygvfyp.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/303%20Lee%20Enfield%20sporting%20rifle/Photo1791_zps3fygvfyp.jpg.html)
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/303%20Lee%20Enfield%20sporting%20rifle/Photo1792_zpscseribq2.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/303%20Lee%20Enfield%20sporting%20rifle/Photo1792_zpscseribq2.jpg.html)

[Von Gruff]

Having had to remove some finish to get the grip cap finished correctly I decided to do some more work on the rifle and having been very pleased with the easing of the top of the wrist socket that had been don on the 400 and the 375 I decided to do the same for the 303
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/303%20Lee%20Enfield%20sporting%20rifle/Photo1787_zpsfkhhur9b.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/303%20Lee%20Enfield%20sporting%20rifle/Photo1787_zpsfkhhur9b.jpg.html)
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/303%20Lee%20Enfield%20sporting%20rifle/Photo1788_zpsrhwachhs.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/303%20Lee%20Enfield%20sporting%20rifle/Photo1788_zpsrhwachhs.jpg.html).
Since I had to refinish the whole of the butt stock it seemed only right to change the hardwood forend tip for some buff horn as well

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/303%20Lee%20Enfield%20sporting%20rifle/303%20with%20buff%20horn_zpsebjiev0v.png (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/303%20Lee%20Enfield%20sporting%20rifle/303%20with%20buff%20horn_zpsebjiev0v.png.html)

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/303%20Lee%20Enfield%20sporting%20rifle/303-7_zpsrc2yge4x.png (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/303%20Lee%20Enfield%20sporting%20rifle/303-7_zpsrc2yge4x.png.html)

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/303%20Lee%20Enfield%20sporting%20rifle/303-5_zpspucfnh8n.png (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/303%20Lee%20Enfield%20sporting%20rifle/303-5_zpspucfnh8n.png.html)

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/303%20Lee%20Enfield%20sporting%20rifle/303-4_zpslbhgumdl.png (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/303%20Lee%20Enfield%20sporting%20rifle/303-4_zpslbhgumdl.png.html)

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/303%20Lee%20Enfield%20sporting%20rifle/303-2_zpsiiaiwr1r.png (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/303%20Lee%20Enfield%20sporting%20rifle/303-2_zpsiiaiwr1r.png.html)

Have it with the first coats of finish on it at the moment and think it has improved the visual of the rifle and pleases me

[BigEyeBob]

That rifle is looking really schmiko Garry .I like the lines nice and sleek .

Kev.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

That is beautiful work, and the sort of stock a Lee-Enfield begs for. A lot of people are dismayed by the cost of one-off gunsmithing projects, as compared with small production runs using the same technology. But what they fail to realize is how much time needs to be spent in thinking, and if it isn't, they will wish it had. I do think horn is more likely to be satisfactory for grip and even forend cap than ebony, which can crack or shrink.

There are one or two things I might do differently. I would remove the cut-off and make the top edge of the wood straight, to cover the slot, as you said you have mentioned. I think I would use the 3in. diameter roller on my belt sander to make the rear surface of the forend tip concave, and carve the walnut to match, with graphite dust to reach a perfect fit. On my sporting straight-pull Mannlicher I made that cap in ebony, not more than 3/4in. from front to rear, and all curved. There is hardly any way a blow could break that curved glue-joint. Not that there is much risk of that with epoxy, but I like to think I was imitating what the late Victorians might have done, with their weaker glues.

This is a digression, but I hate to see "resin" reproductions of gun parts which were actually vulcanite, aka ebonite or hard rubber. They scratch more easily, and there is usually a shine and translucency about them which doesn't look quite right. The big market for ebonite nowadays, but only in rod form, is tobacco pipes, and I have some pipe stem blanks on order to make the bolt knobs for my two Schmidt-Rubin 1889s. They will be very dark brown, which isn't right, but neither is the carroty hue of the few resin repros I have seen.

In case anyone who makes such accessories is watching, here is the best supplier I know of the sealers and fillers for making genuine moulded vulcanite. I think price, and possibly equipment, put it out of reach of the amateur.

http://www.ebonite-arts.de/en/products/basicmelt-adhesiv-sealant.php

[Von Gruff]

I am going to call this one done now, except for bluing of course. After the new barrel, grip cap, and forend tip in buff horn and the strip back and re-finish I took it out for a shot and it was shooting low enough that I removed the dovetailed front sight blade and filed off the top of the ramp and hand cut a new dovetail. I found the blade @ .05 just a bit thin to pick up so split a piece of steel that is .125 thick and after filing the original blade down and thinning it toward the top, tapped the new blade over it. It makes a sight I can seen now and is what I did for a couple of other front sight blades I have. When I worked out the height I needed to file it down to I found it would come too close to the top of the split so filed off the dovetail and cut a new one. Went out for a few more shots and as I have not worked up a load for this barrel yet so just had the 17.3gn of blue dot load that has shot in other 303's and while the"group" was nothing to write home about it was centered over the point of aim at 50 yds so I can now start load work-up.
I have some babbit enriched bullets aged up and ready to go so I can start to find out what this one will do.
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/303%20Lee%20Enfield%20sporting%20rifle/LS%203_zpstpb1vxug.png (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/303%20Lee%20Enfield%20sporting%20rifle/LS%203_zpstpb1vxug.png.html)
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/303%20Lee%20Enfield%20sporting%20rifle/LS%204_zps0bvdqgz2.png (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/303%20Lee%20Enfield%20sporting%20rifle/LS%204_zps0bvdqgz2.png.html)

[bremraf]

That is beautiful! Someday, when the kids are grown maybe I'll have the time to produce such a fine looking rifle. I enjoy the building of them almost as much as shooting them.

[leebuilder]

Still in awe at your skill. That rifle makes me drool!!!
Be well and safe.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Garry: I like the color you stained the wood much better. I am really into the Winchester Red color and a look at Turnbull's Restoration website will confirm that they have it mastered.

I also like the grip cap and fore end tip. They contrast much better than the rosewood ones did.

I have a block of Ebony to make my fore end tip on my Boyd's Laminate stock out of.

I plan on cutting the fore end about 3" back hanging it in the mill and milling the end flat and perpendicular to the bore. Then Two "F" sized holes about 3/4" apart and centered on the centerline of the fore end. Same for the Ebony and then 1/4" aluminum pins with grooves in them to hold the Epoxy.

I want the overall length on the fore end about 1" shorter than it is now as the gun has a 22"bbl.

The secret to getting the perfect fit everytime is to use Polyester Resin Pigment to color the Epoxy. (available at Surf Shops.) What this does is fill any gaps you might have and I assure they can't be seen afterwards.

This is a trick I developed making knives.

Randy

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Of course we all know people create scores of new cartridges every year, without improving for any practical purposes on the cartridges already in existence by the early years of the twentieth century. But there's knowing and there's knowing. When you have created and used rifles like these, you must really know it.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Garry here's a pic of that little knife.

B in S: There's a saying ,,, "new cartridges are like new jokes!"

With very few exceptions , there have been almost no new cartridges of any real use invented after 1960.

And you can even dial that back to about 1930 fairly easily if you only wanted to talk about significant cartridges that have stood the test of time. Virtually all new cartridges are modifications of something that came earlier, and none of them will do anything any better than their ancestors, and to add to that most all of the new ones are simple variations on things that were tried and rejected along time ago.

Everything that is good now was based on the Mauser case head, or the H&H belted case head, and look at the .45-70 which came out in 1873 and is more popular now than it was in 1890!

Virtually all high performance new cartridges have simply increased the case volume of something else to increase velocities.

There has been a lot of improvement in bullet technology, which really makes older cartridges perform like new ones.

But really will anything know the difference after being hit with a bullet going 3300 fps over one at 2900 fps.

I consider the only real sporting use for such long range cartridges to be the elimination of 2 legged vermin.

A friend of mine was shooting his .40-65 with black powder rifle at our Silhouette Shoot this last weekend. He had 60 MOA on the gun at 500 Meters. His 350 gr boolits had a midrange of 330 inches or 27.5 feet! They knocked 6/10 55lb Rams down with authority!

Shooting My #4MK1 offhand at the same silhouette course 500,385,300,200 Meters I only hit 3/40 however I was so close on the majority of shots that I could safely put forth that 30/40 would have hit a man sized target,,, with a rifle made in 1943 shooting a cartridge invented in 1880 which is just as powerful now as it was 100 years ago.

People haven't gotten any tougher, and neither have game animals. Paper targets never knew the difference anyway.

Knowledgeable people have been doing this for 150+ years. Anyone who thinks they are doing something new is simply a victim of our Pathetic Education System.

pardon me for rambling on.

Randy

[Von Gruff]

I heartily agree and have often said that if we only had the cartridges that appeared before 1920 we would still have all that is really needed in the game fields although it might require a change in hunting methods. My gun safe tends to have rifles chambered for cartridges mostly older than 1900 with 577-450, 303 and 7x57 holding the places of honour for the larger stuff and the 400 which is all reality is simply a slightly shorter 405 Winchester and from 1904. My small game rifles are a different matter though with a 20 VT for the rabbits and a 6.5 GM (my wildcat 6.5 Grendel) for the goat sized animals that are in big country that might stretch the open sighted rifles. http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?9961-Another-couplle-of-goats

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I think the advantages of Ackley's extremely straight body are real enough - very slightly in accuracy, virtually zero in velocity if it is with a slightly longer round that you can compare them, but rather more so in brass life. There is no doubt at all about the extremely tight tolerances to which benchresters work - and no doubt that we can't use them for any application in which a speck of dirt in the chamber could impede the shot of a lifetime. Cases habitually used for benchresting etc. may, when sized, have unusually close tolerances in internal capacity too. People who talk about shooting prairie dogs at a mile cause me some annoyance. We wouldn't much respect someone who hunted deer at ranges where he could make groups of two or three feet, and what has a prairie dog done to deserve less? It didn't ask to be a varmint.

If I was trying to build the ultimate target rifle, my attitude to the .303 would be like the old Irishman who is asked to give directions: "Sure, sor, and if I wanted to go to Dublin, I wouldn't start from here." But we aren't. If we are looking for a rifle to be used in the way people usually hunt game, the .303 is about as good as anything. Jeff Cooper said about the same of the .30-40.

[Von Gruff]

So having the rifle sorted I needed to get it to feed as the width of the bullet made the standard mag unworkable.
I wanted to be able to do this without destroying the originality of the KMlll long lipped mag I had so removed the follower but would use the spring
I had the gutter supports from an old vehicle roofrack and saw that they had a nice hollow so out came the hacksaw
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1885_zpsolu4bwk6.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1885_zpsolu4bwk6.jpg.html)
Cut it with fold over lugs and it was good to go
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1886_zpst2rscbea.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1886_zpst2rscbea.jpg.html)
A piece of stainless was folded and shaped for the insert so it would work a bit like a 22 longrifle magazine with centre feed
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1887_zps3nc35lff.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1887_zps3nc35lff.jpg.html)
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1888_zpspp7t8tju.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1888_zpspp7t8tju.jpg.html)
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1890_zpsn4huskit.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1890_zpsn4huskit.jpg.html)

[Von Gruff]

It will take 5 down and the only thing I need to do now is to taper the top of the ramp a little as the wide meplat on the ACC 41-320W bullet makes it a catch point on occasion. It did so on one cartridge in this test vid so a little dremmel work should see that sorted.
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/th_Video0001_zpsvtmvhkzm.mp4 (http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Video0001_zpsvtmvhkzm.mp4)

[Von Gruff]

Have done the majority of shaping on the stock now and this afternoon I hope to attend to the sights. Have a No 4 front sight band and need to get it turned out to fit my barrel and cut the slots in the aperture arm to get the elevation sorted.

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1906_zps8vriqpl4.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1906_zps8vriqpl4.jpg.html)

[Von Gruff]

I think I will call this one done now.
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/400%20LS_zpstzibxghn.png (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/400%20LS_zpstzibxghn.png.html)
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1998_zpsiuhosrab.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1998_zpsiuhosrab.jpg.html)
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo2002_zpsecxastdg.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo2002_zpsecxastdg.jpg.html)

[FrankG]

Thats a beauty Garry !!

[Von Gruff]

Thank you. I am a little pleased with how it has turned out as well. This is the "pair" that will be stablemates, with the 303 and the 400 and their respective ammunition capacities and the knives appropriate to dress the game they are suited for

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/303%20and%20400_zpssbj4f22p.png (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/303%20and%20400_zpssbj4f22p.png.html)

[W.R.Buchanan]

Garry: Both those guns came out looking right proper!

I like the Black Fore End and Grip Caps much better than the previous ones. In fact it moved me to purchase a 1/2" think piece of Ebony the other day to make a grip cap for my Gray Laminate Boyd's Stock on my .35-303 project. I had already planned on a, and Ebony Fore End Cap but it really needs the Grip Cap as well to equalize the contrast across the gun.

Another little subtle point is that you left enough material in the fore ends to have some meat to hold onto, While still retaining the "Lee Speed" look. Some of the Lee Speed Splinter Fore Ends tend to be a bit small for my tastes.

The color of the wood is right in line also. It really looks nice in the outdoor light!!!

I think you done real good!

Randy

[Von Gruff]

Speaking of the forestocks and the dimensions. I am of the opinion that your hand needs to comfortably encircle the wood and barrel at the front of the receiver and taper from there and any place along the length the hold dynamic is with the thumb and fingers on top of the wood and against the barrel . This has the center of the barrel between the directing portion of the hand and is more naturally pointed and is part of the design that makes these rifle very fast to lock onto targets with. I was fortunate enough to handle a number of Lee Speeds and the pattern is a compromise pattern from a couple of them. Many Lee Speeds were simple factory sporting rifles and called Lee Speeds because of the patent John Speed took out on the double stack 10 shot magazine and the bolt safety. Because he worked for the BSA company, BSA acknowledged this on the socket but after the first short patent timeframe expired they no longer marked the rifles as such. Other gunmakers bought the BSA commercial action and stocked them as clients required and this bought about the many differing dimensions of the LEE Enfield sporting rifle, commonally called Lee Speeds even without the wrist marking. One thing they all have though is the svelte pointability and is what I have endeavoured to bring to the pattern I have made and the stocks that come from it. The forstock needs to be slim enough to act as a pointer in hand with just enough to hold onto and control the rifle.
At the reveiver
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/Photo2011_zpszqxw43yf.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/Photo2011_zpszqxw43yf.jpg.html)

and at the forend tip, and as it is only 8 1/2 inches from the receiver is the natural place for steady hold and direct pointability
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/Photo2012_zpshbnc91sl.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/Photo2012_zpshbnc91sl.jpg.html)
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/Photo2013_zps5etioeam.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/Photo2013_zps5etioeam.jpg.html)

[taco650]

Very nice job on both!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Garry: Your hold on the guns fore end is similar to the proper hold on a Schnabel style fore end.

All these fine points are the difference between a club and fine sporting weapon. So many clubs out there.

It's good we make our own!

I tend to view stock dimensions based on what I learned while reading Whelen Catalogs. They had all the proper measurements for the Classic American Bolt Action Rifle figured out by 1920, and little has changed to this day. About the only real difference between early and contemporary butt stocks is the drop at the heel which used to be much steeper than is considered proper nowadays.

I have to confess that my #4Mk1* Long Branch 35-303 has a Laminated Boyd's Buttstock and Fore End and both those trend more towards American styling as opposed to the classic British look. The butt has a more strait comb than yours do and the fore end is fuller and longer.

I plan on shortening the fore end about 1" overall with the Ebony in place, and the addition of the Ebony Grip Cap should accent the lines for a pleasing look.

However, as one of the Queens Subjects,,, it would be more proper for your guns to have the Classic British lines and you have captured that essence pretty well.

My amazement is that hardly anyone is replicating these guns as they were originally done. It would seem there would be a ready market in the UK, and DU for guns like these built to the highest standards just like there is a market for the classic American Bolt Action Rifles made by Griffin and Howe and the like.

What was old, is now new, and we see that in the cars that people build to relive their younger days. Restorations of classic cars has been eclipsed by people building brand new,,,old classic cars. We have outfits building brand new classic body styles that you can modify to any configuration imaginable. You essentially are driving a new car that looks like a 57 Buick,, or just about anything else you fancy. All it takes is money.

We have an outfit in LA building Brand New Toyota FJ40 and FJ45 Land Cruisers and even making some configurations Toyota didn't do. $175K each and all are sold before built. The same outfit makes a replica of the Ford Square Fender Bronco 1966-72, $175K for that one also. These are not restored vehicles,,, they are brand new cars!

When you can't find a used version of what you want, then you build it yourself. Hell I'm even doing it!

Randy

[taco650]

Von Gruff,

Could you PLEASE elaborate on the differences between the "Speed" rifles and a "standard" #1 Mk 3? I have a 1935 issue #1 Mk 3 parts gun that shoots well but I'd like to restock with a "sporter" style stock. The factory stock is missing the upper barrel section so I don't mind butchering it to a more sporter appearance but... Anyway, if you have a link to a site that explains it just post and I'll read up. Thanks!

[Von Gruff]

John Speed was an employee of BSA and the very early Lee Metford rifles has a single stack 8 shot magazine and a left side body mounted safety catch from its introduction in 1888 and 1889 was called the Magazine Lee Metford (MLM Mk l). In 1892 the MLM Mk l* with the same 8 shot single stack magazine but the safety catch was omitted.
In 1892 the MLM Mk ll was introduced with the John Speed patented 10 shot double stack magazine and the bolt mounted safety catch. From then the Lee Speed patents were noted on the wrist socket of the commercial and sporting actions but not on the military actions after the first patent period ran out (as far as I can find in any notes)
When the patent term ran out the Lee Speed marking was simply replaced with BSA & Co on the wrist socket
The Sporting rifles were not made from military actions so there was no lobbing site and the recess for it, which made for a sleek wrist leading into the grip area that the Lee Speeds and the associated sporting rifles are noted for. As the only difference between the Lee Speed marked sporting rifles and the BSA & Co marked rifles is the wrist marking they have generically been called Lee Speeds but never those that may have been made on military actions like I have done here. Sporting rifles in the Lee speed "style" have been made on charger loading MLM and MLE actions as these in the Govt arsenal were converted for use in the 14-18 war and were noted as CLMLM or CLMLE (charger loaded magazine Lee Metford or Charger loading magazine Lee Enfield)with this being noted on the LEFT of the wrist socket. The custom gunmakers would make to what ever the client required and so there were sporting rifles made from the early MLM and MLE actions BUT the SMLE actions were not as a rule used. Parker Hale was one factory that did make sporting rifles from the SMLE action and these have seen wide use in many countries.
What seems to define the Lee Speed other than the stock style is the magazine cutoff and the bolt safety and in reality the Lee Speed style refers to these aspects of the rifles as much as it does to the patent marking on the wrist socket and just recently I decided to see if a decent looking sporting rifle could be made from a 1917 MK lll action which is the SMLE and differs in that it has a riveted on bridge that needs removing as I see no earthly use for a charger bridge on a sporting rifle but the safety is a bit of a challenge and it may just be removed altogether and the recess filled so the old fashioned half cock can be used instead.
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/rifle%20metalwork/Photo1976_zps7w7aktxp.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/rifle%20metalwork/Photo1976_zps7w7aktxp.jpg.html)
After the hacksaw had done its bit

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/rifle%20metalwork/Photo1977_zpsx3ucwkfv.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/rifle%20metalwork/Photo1977_zpsx3ucwkfv.jpg.html)

Right side cleaned up

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/rifle%20metalwork/Photo1980_zpsr8ykdrtw.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/rifle%20metalwork/Photo1980_zpsr8ykdrtw.jpg.html)

Left side cleaned up. I left the remains of the bridge on this side to fill the recess it occupies and while there is the slight gap underneath it is not a bad visual detractor
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/rifle%20metalwork/Photo1985_zpsaanxhfox.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/rifle%20metalwork/Photo1985_zpsaanxhfox.jpg.html)
The top edge needs dressed back now and the safety removed with its recess filled and the anchor screw hole filled but whatever I do to it there is no way it can be called anything other than a Lee Enfield sporting rifle

[FrankG]

That streamlined it right up !

[taco650]

That streamlined it right up !

Yes indeed. So the charging bridge offers no added structural strength to the action? Also, with the action mounted safety removed, what will function in its place? Sorry but I must have missed something in your explanation of the Speed. Is this rifle going to remain a 303?

[Von Gruff]

The charging bridge is riveted on and added to fascilitate the use of clips to load the magazine and adds nothing in the way of structural strength to the action. I only added this to the thread to show that the SMLE can be trimmed back to have a more sporting appearance --but if I was to use it, a 35-303 might be in order. With the safety removed it would revert to the earliest MLM style and use the half cock and user awareness although I haven't made a hard and fast decision to remove it as yet.

[shooter93]

What I like most about those rifles (without offending anyone)....is taking an action that simply isn't the best looking or svelte action available and turning it into a downright beautiful firearm. It's the main reason I did a Krag based custom gun. Many thought I might be a bit daffy but the completed rifle is pretty sharp. I did drive a smith nuts for a bit when I asked for a side swing safety but he figured it out rather nicely. If I didn't have too many projects going on now I'd be mighty tempted to have one like those two you did.

[BigEyeBob]

The pictured cheek piece is a design used on English big bore rifles for open or express sights , straight stock to reduce felt recoil and the pancake flat cheek piece to support the face when sighting for a shot.
My 500 NE Boswell double rifle (circa 1905) has the same design cheek piece and the stock on a Holland and Holland 375H&H magnum that I owned some years ago was made furnished with the same design cheek piece.
Both rifles are/were very comfortable to shoot with out feeling over bearing recoil.
Splinter fore end , pancake cheek piece on a straight stock , with most of the weight between the forward hand and the wrist giving a good balance to the rifle makes all the difference to the handling and recoil of a big game rifle

[taco650]

The charging bridge is riveted on and added to fascilitate the use of clips to load the magazine and adds nothing in the way of structural strength to the action. I only added this to the thread to show that the SMLE can be trimmed back to have a more sporting appearance --but if I was to use it, a 35-303 might be in order. With the safety removed it would revert to the earliest MLM style and use the half cock and user awareness although I haven't made a hard and fast decision to remove it as yet.

Would you go with a "regular" 35-303 or an "improved" version?

[Von Gruff]

A friend has both the 35-303 and the epps 303 reamer but I think the 35-303 would make a great cast bullet shooter so that would be the way I would go. If I was going to be shooting jacketed bullet to potential I would look at the epps chamber for the 303

[RPRNY]

Would you go with a "regular" 35-303 or an "improved" version?

So, I have just had a 35 Krag done up and had the chance to shoot it for the first time Monday.

The 30-40 Krag was almost certainly a copy for all intents and purposes of the 303 holding 1-2 grains more H2O and 5 grs more bullet in its debut guise. The shoulder has about 10 degrees more slope on the 303 as I recall. Both have quite a bit of body taper, typical of the 29th century military cartridge.

With initial conservative loads built off lower mid level 358 Win loads and a Speer 250 grs HCSP, I was getting 2200 fps. I am confident that I can work up slowly and carefully to lower mid 35 Whelen performance.

Ackley found that the 30-40 delivered among the greatest velocity improvements of all the improved cartridges, undoubtedly because of the capacity increases allowed for by sloping shoulders and a good amount of body taper. Given that the body taper of the 303 is also substantial and the shoulders substantially more sloping, the velocity improvements could be greater for the 303 than the 30-40.

But Ackley guessed at pressure spikes with the MkI eyeball and seemed to think if you weren't on the edge of case rupture, you were a big girl's blouse.

There's a case to be made that removing body taper will diminish breach face thrust and diminish pressure impact. Maybe.

The 35-303 Improved will be very close to the 35 Whelen and loaded to potential, will likely exceed 55, 000 psi. Something to consider.

[taco650]

The 35-303 Improved will be very close to the 35 Whelen and loaded to potential, will likely exceed 55, 000 psi. Something to consider.

Agreed, however I think 35-40K psi is more reasonable for the #1, Mk III action I've got.

[Von Gruff]

Left as a 303 it can do more than enough with a cast bullet. This is my 190gn bullet
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/303%20Lee%20Enfield%20sporting%20rifle/Accurate303mould_zps8b933f24.png (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/303%20Lee%20Enfield%20sporting%20rifle/Accurate303mould_zps8b933f24.png.html)

With Q/L pressure data

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/303%20Lee%20Enfield%20sporting%20rifle/3031%20pressure%20data_zps1crio6or.png (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/303%20Lee%20Enfield%20sporting%20rifle/3031%20pressure%20data_zps1crio6or.png.html)

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/303%20Lee%20Enfield%20sporting%20rifle/3031%20QL%20data_zpsupcsl7b7.png (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/303%20Lee%20Enfield%20sporting%20rifle/3031%20QL%20data_zpsupcsl7b7.png.html)

Not sure that any more than this would be needed

[RPRNY]

Agreed, however I think 35-40K psi is more reasonable for the #1, Mk III action I've got.

In which case the 35-303 will be a treat. 200 grs at @2500 within your pressure parameters. 250 grs at 2200. I have found 35 WCF probably the best fit for comparable load data for the 35 Krag. Would also work for the 35-303, just keep in mind that some older data for the 35 EFF may have been before changes in the given powder and that max charges are more conservative these days. Starting from 45 grs 4064 or 4895 with 250s an working up slowly is a good plan.

An excellent cartridge and an historic wildcat. Enjoy!

[andym79]

Hi, I know this is an old thread, but I am going through the same drama (with the magazine). None of the relevant photos are viewable, if any of the magazine inserts still exist, please repost them.

Thanks

[FrankG]

I have a pattern of magazine insert I can post . It works well with both 375/303 and the shortened 405 I put together .

[GranddadsDadsMine]

This thread is going to get printed and put with all the other information that has intrigued and taught me various things before I begin making a stock for my generational hand me down SMLE .303 sporter. A knowledgeable post that I can actually use on my project, and enjoy reading at the very least. I respect the craft wholeheartedly and am slowly beginning to dabble in it myself. Well I appreciate the thread entirely and thank you, Mr. Von Gruff for the time and effort put forth!

Cheers!:drinks: