1885 highwall advice.

[b money]

Well I've made my mind up, I'm going to get a 1885 highwall in 45-70. I know there's a lot of people on here who have them and I would like some advice on what model to get. It will be mainly a range and target gun but may find its way in the field after some deer and such(outside of Illinois) I plan on shooting both cast and jacketed, with smokeless powder only. I was never fond of straight stocks on lever guns, so I doubt I'd like them on this either. It must have a straight recoil pad or butt plate as I plan on shooting this and hate crescent butt stocks. I don't really want a short barrel trapper model as it'll be mostly a bench gun. My biggest hang up is to get one with a scope or long range vernier style open sights. I must be honest, I was never big into plinking with open sights, and am more into long range precision rifles than anything. But Quigley style open sights just seem right on this rifle, plus cases would be quicker to feed and extract without the scope. So I am torn between my love of precision(that I don't see me getting with open sights) or the classic feel which as a history buff I'm very much into. I would like to stick with Winchester or Browning, but uberti and the few others would be fine as well.

At first I was set on the BCPR model because it was everything I wanted, but now I'm thinking I may want to scope it. Is there a way I can put a scope on a BCPR model without removing the sights and being able to switch without ruining the rifle?

Thanks for your thoughts.

[Gunlaker]

You don't want to shoot with a long tang sight folded down. Plenty of shooters have their rifles set up for both scope and a tang sight. You just have to remove the staff if you are going to use the scope. Quality external adjust scopes won't have a problem returning to zero when removing them when switching back and forth.

Chris.

[Don McDowell]

The Winchester bpcr model is drilled and tapped to take modern scope mounts.

[b money]

Oh ok wow that was easy haha. I didn't know it was drilled and tapped. Ok well that settles my original question of model. Is there any difference between the winchester version and browning?

[LynC2]

Oh ok wow that was easy haha. I didn't know it was drilled and tapped. Ok well that settles my original question of model. Is there any difference between the winchester version and browning?

My Browning BPCR is drilled and tapped for modern scope mounts also. Works well for testing loads. :)

[NSB]

I to was never a fan of straight stocks until I shot someone's High Wall with that type of stock. It felt surprisingly good to hold and shoot. I ended up buying a new Winchester with a 28"bbl, recoil pad from factory, octagon barrel, and a factory 3lb trigger. The gun shoots everything well, and several loads better than I ever expected. It will actually shoot five shot groups 1moa or less off a rest. I tried open sights with it and it shot very well, but due to "old eyes" I ended up putting a Leupold 2.5-8 VX3 on the gun with Leupold mounts. It's not only a pleasure to shoot at targets but I've taken several deer with it over the last two years. The only caution I can offer is that Win/Brown/Miroku (the actual manufacturer) chambers the gun to the original factory specs. This gives no throat at all to the gun. None. (I'm not talking about the BPCR model, that has a different barrel from a different mfg. on it). I took the gun to Turnbull and had it reamed out. They used their reamer and took almost a quarter inch out of the gun. Before doing it, it would not chamber long bullets or bullets with blunt ogives. Even the Hornady 350g bullets would not allow the action to close without using the lever to cam the round into the gun. Now it feeds everything with ease. It's probably my favorite gun at this time.

[fouronesix]

Since no one has mentioned, might also take a look at the M1885 by C Sharps Arms. Costs nothing to look. The best group with a 45-70 cast load at 300 yards I've ever witnessed, bar none, was a friend shooting his C Sharps M1885. I was spotting and on that particular morning could watch the bullets drop in from above the scope's FOV at about the 200 yd line and disappear into a cluster on the target set at 300 yd. Group size 3/8" :)

[Bigslug]

You've got a rainbow-trajectory cartridge - - you're going to run out of elevation in most scopes a very long time before you run out of elevation on a tall tang sight.

Uberti does a double set-trigger, pistol-grip, 30" octagonal version that won't have the stupid, obnoxious, idiotic thumb safety. Seems like a no-brainer for your situation.

[NSB]

You've got a rainbow-trajectory cartridge - - you're going to run out of elevation in most scopes a very long time before you run out of elevation on a tall tang sight.

Uberti does a double set-trigger, pistol-grip, 30" octagonal version that won't have the stupid, obnoxious, idiotic thumb safety. Seems like a no-brainer for your situation.

Thumb safety? I've never seen one with a thumb safety. Are you talking about a Win/Miroku High Wall? I think you're confused.

[Don McDowell]

There is no thumb safety on the bpcr models

[NSB]

There's no thumb safety on any of the models. Mine's not a BPCR and it has no safety. I've never seen a safety on an 1885.

[Bigslug]

There's no thumb safety on any of the models. Mine's not a BPCR and it has no safety. I've never seen a safety on an 1885.

I would swear I've handled and sold dozens of them that did. Either there's a disturbance in our respective space-time continuums, or I'm senile at 43.

[pietro]

Is there any difference between the winchester version and browning?




Yes - One is stamped "Winchester", and the other stamped "Browning". ;)

Both are made by the Miroku Gun Co (Japan).


.

[NSB]

I would swear I've handled and sold dozens of them that did. Either there's a disturbance in our respective space-time continuums, or I'm senile at 43.

The Winchester that everyone loves to hate is the 1886, not the 1885. The 1886 lever gun has a safety on it. Everyone hates it but the one on mine worked OK. I just had it removed when I had Turnbull CCH the gun. Some report they have a problem with it and they probably do.

Don't worry about that senile thing at 43. My wife says some of my best memories aren't based on reality. :razz:

[b money]

Thanks everyone! I think ive pretty much settled on the BCPR model then. Anyone know of one for sale?

[boommer]

There is a Browning BPCR 45-70 on gun broker now.

[gmsharps]

The browning's have Badger barrels on them and they really shoot well. Get a trigger job on it and it will do fine.

gmsharps

[NSB]

The browning's have Badger barrels on them and they really shoot well. Get a trigger job on it and it will do fine.

gmsharps
If you want a trigger job done on any Miroku made High Wall or Low Wall, contact Lee Shaver Gunsmithing to get it done. He doesn't even need the gun to do it. He will send you some easy to follow instructions on how to take a couple of parts off your trigger group and mail them to him. He charges around thirty-five bucks for the service and you'll get your trigger back (usually rather quickly) at 1-1.5lbs.

[101VooDoo]

Be aware that the Browning BPCR currently on gunbroker doesn't have sights. The seller sold the sights off separately a couple months ago and has been running the rifle without them ever since.

You might want to ping him with a lower offer.

[NSB]

Be aware that the Browning BPCR currently on gunbroker doesn't have sights. The seller sold the sights off separately a couple months ago and has been running the rifle without them ever since.

You might want to ping him with a lower offer.

Those factory original sights for the BPCR ran somewhere around $700 if I remember correctly. They add a lot to the value of the gun. However, if you get the gun at a good price without sights there are some very, very good aftermarket sights out there that will fit the gun perfectly and are as good if not better.

[boommer]

That price of that rifle then Lee Shaver sights front and back, Trigger job= 2000.00 Browning BPCR's are getting harder to find. I have one in 40-65 and it came with the browning sights and went and changed out rear sight to Red river LR and trigger job and I got over two in to it.

[tomf52]

What does "BPCR" stand for? Sorry, but new to single shot world.

[country gent]

Black Powder cartridge Rifle. It denotes rifles such as the High wall Sharps hepburn trap door rolling block and that era of rifles. Several sports have grown around these rifles The Quiglet shoot, Buffalo gong matches, Long range and extended range, and shilouette matches. Cowboy action shooting matches have classes and side events also.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

I have an original Win 85 Hi Wall in 45-70 and put a Lyman tang sight on it. It is difficult to shoot with the sight folded back down for it then is difficult to get a decent grip on the gun. I've thought about pulling it off entirely. Using a 405 grain bullet the rifle shoots well out to 150 yards with moderate charges of 3031. 12-1300 fps is about the most comfortable working speed for any length of time. The crescent shape of the buttplate has to be watched; it has to be positioned properly or else. LLS

[b money]

Wow! I never would have guessed a set of open sights would ever cost that much! I guess I'll start hopping for a deal haha

[gmsharps]

Texasmac on this site deals in a lot of the Browning BPCR rifles and may have a set of the original sights. If not the MVA sights run In the $475 range the last time I looked. I would look at the long range sight if you have intentions of shooting past the 500 meter line also. Texasmac may have a rifle or two lying around as well. Just a reminder these sights are fairly delicate so know how they operate before you go to making adjustments or bad things can happen to the sight.

gmsharps

[b money]

I thought of another question while researching BPCR's. How do they shoot with jacketed smokeless rounds? I know this is sacrilege to some but I want a rifle that can adapt to the task at hand. After reading it seams the 1885 BPCR can be very picky with the bullet and powder. From my reading they like to stick to BP velocities. I was wondering since this is a highwall and you can load them to whatever level 45-70 you want, are they still going to be actuate on the higher end with either a jacketed or LBT style GC solid? As a side note, at this time I don't plan to shoot black powder through this rifle. It may come with time but I've never messed with it and have no plans to right now.

[NSB]

I don't know where you got the idea that they are "picky" with jacketed bullets, but that's not the case. They will shoot jacketed bullets very well and aren't at all picky about what they shoot. Like most rifles, they will shoot some bullet/powder combo's better than others. They will shoot a good many combo's very well. These types of guns are more particular to what they like when shooting cast than jacketed.

[M-Tecs]

Mine shot jacketed very well. BP is a different learning curve. Until you understand the differences some find BP go be "picky"

[Don McDowell]

Nothing wrong with sticking to bp ballistics,,, seriously that's what made the cartridge famous and kept it around for 130 someodd years before it got discovered again....
The biggest problem with the bpcr models is the 1-18 in twist, sometimes that twist and chamber just doesnt' play well with bullets under 400 grs.

[NSB]

Nothing wrong with sticking to bp ballistics,,, seriously that's what made the cartridge famous and kept it around for 130 someodd years before it got discovered again....
The biggest problem with the bpcr models is the 1-18 in twist, sometimes that twist and chamber just doesnt' play well with bullets under 400 grs.

I've got three 45-70s and they're all Miroku/Win models. They all prefer bullets of 400g or over. Don is correct in his statement. I've found the lighter bullets shoot just "OK", but not the best. The groups get significantly smaller with heavier bullets.

[b money]

That's good to know. I never really had black or white proof saying these highwalls are picky, it just seemed to be the case after reading a lot of posts on many diffrent boards. Many people where having difficulty trying to find a accurate load. But then again that's half the fun of getting a new rifle.

[oldred]

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[45r]

I got a 24 inch 45-70 Win sporter with the rubber pad and my shoulder likes it.
It shoots real well with cast or condum bullets.
Put a 3x9 leupold on it.
Like it a lot.
Use 5744 and 400 grain boolits the most.
Have got groups under 2 MOA and sometimes around 1 inch at 100 yards.
300 grain sierra HP shoots good and what I use for deer.