American Bulldogs, good breed?

[richhodg66]

Looking at adopting one from a neighbor family. I must admit to being more of a cat person, but we've had at least one dog pretty much all the time for the past 20 or so years.

This guy is about two years old. He's pretty shy of men, seems to like women and kids better, also seems good with smaller dogs and kids. The reason they are adopting him out is he bit a kid who climbed the fence to their yard to play with thei kids it seems and I guess he got territorial or protective. They have three small kids of their own and we just got back from visiting them and he sure seemed to do very well with them.

I don't have kids in the house anymore and no grandkids yet. The wife and I are about to buy a place with some acreage out in the sticks and I'd like a dog who can be outside for a few hours at a time (assuming decent weather, I wouldn't put him outside now) and is also strong and big enough to be more intimidating than our 14 year old SHi Tzu we now have.

ANy thoughts or experiences are appreciated. I'd also like to know of any breed specific health concerns these guys have.

[Recluse]

I trained two Am Bulls to Schutzhund I titles some years ago and swore I'd never, ever try to train another American Bulldog for anything other than a casual pet--and even then, I'd have to think pretty hard about it.

Hard-headed doesn't even begin to scrape the surface in describing a typical AmBull and if you get tired of using the description of "hard-headed," you can interchange it with "stubborn as hell."

These are big, strong dogs and where they excel is as "catch dogs" for hunting wild pigs. The two I trained to Schutzhund titles were for two different sheriff's departments where the deputies wanted a "big, powerful dog" but didn't want a Rottweiler--which was what I immediately suggested when they told me they were looking for a 100+pound dog. They wanted a dog that would intimidate the "backwoods Bubbas" they had to deal with on a regular basis. An AmBull can certainly do that, but it's hell training them. They are not the brightest of dogs in the canine world to begin with, ranking in the third quadrant of Dr. Stanley Coren's hierarchy of canine intelligence (http://www.stanleycoren.com/e_intelligence.htm).

I'd be very concerned with the fact that A) this dog seems to shy away from (most) men, and B) he bit a kid coming over the fence to play with other kids. This is pretty indicative of what we refer to or label as a "fear biter." Some of us who've been around the canine training and competition world for several decades also refer to these as "ticking time bombs" because it's only a matter of when they're going to go off, and not if.

My daughter and son-in-law just got rid of their American Bulldog, which they got against every breath of advice I could give them. They also adopted the dog and he had issues from the outset. Things were okay for about a year, then whammo. He suddenly got "separation anxiety" and started becoming destructive. Then when put outside, he became an escape artist, and finally when running loose, he became a dog that would rush other neighborhood kids and growl snap at them. Final straw was when he mauled a neighbor's dog.

This is a breed in which one needs a great deal of breed-specific experience in order to adjust or shift negative behaviors. Two years old and already has two serious issues (afraid of men, bit a child)? No way in hell I'd touch this dog.

The breed specific health issues related to AmBulls are cardiomyapathy (heart), canine hip and elbow dysplasia, eye problems and neurological problems. Responsible breeders do DNA screening for these issues and work to breed them out. Unfortunately, like "pit bulls," there is a huge underworld of irresponsible American Bulldog breeders.

If you were admiring the breed and had decided that it was the breed for you, I'd strongly recommend getting one as a three to four-month-old puppy and from a responsible, respectable breeder who would offer a lifetime buyback contract, proof of heath testing including OFA and PennHip joint surveys and ratings, etc. Not only would you be getting a puppy you know was bred to health standards, but that was also bred to breed temperament standards--and it just sounds like the dog you're considering was NOT bred to temperament standards. The dog should be far more confident than what you've described, and biting a kid coming over the fence to see his friends who were right there is inexcusable. Period. If this dog saw the kid as a threat, then his temperament sucks and he's seeing threats where none exist and that is dangerous.

I like the breed, but they are a handful and demand strong owners and handlers and as I said before, it helps to have some experience with them if you adopt an adult.

:coffee:

[richhodg66]

This one is no where close to being 100 pounds. How much do they vary in size? Perhaps not a pure breed? Also not as muscular as I'd thought though he seems very healthy.

[Rufus Krile]

Recluse gave you some real good advice. The dog has two strikes that you know about... At two years old he is an adolescent, subject to the problems therein. I've been given and have raised and trained two in this age bracket.. a big dobe male and a sizable female GSD... and neither one was a cake walk. The doberman worked out, but the shepherd.... not so much. The two year mark is where most indiscriminate bites occur and a dog of this size can do a lot of damage in a short amount of time. If you aren't used to dealing with big stubborn square-headed schizo meat grinders, best take a pass on this one. I would.

[freebullet]

Short nosed big dogs snore and make alot of nasal noise. They can have problems due to it aswell. I've met several that I would call good dogs. I'd be more worried about the liability of him biting someone under my care. That means that dog is going to need more attention and some direction from a strong owner to cut off its nippy tendency. Not a dog you can let loose, it could kill ya know.

[Artful]

Recluse, I noticed in your link it listed the smartest dozen breeds

Rank / Breed

1. Border Collies
2. Poodle
3. German Shepherd
4. Golden Retriever
5. Doberman Pincher
6. Shetland Sheepdog
7. Labrador Retriever
8. Papillon
9. Rottwieler
10. Australian Cattle Dog
11. Pembrook Welsh Corgi
12. Miniature Schnauzer

and listed examples of poodle and border collie manipulating humans with bad behavior - being too smart so to speak
- how common is that?

[lefty o]

bit a kid, that dog has used up all three strikes.

[w5pv]

I cannot think of a thing that a pit bull is good for besides fighting and turning on a person.As far as a catch dog give me Blackmouth Yellow Cur dog any time over a pit.

[richhodg66]

Not a Pit, different breed. I wouldn't have a pit even though I've known some who were great dogs.

I'm pretty sure this guy could be a good dog, just too good with the family and other pets. My big concern now if that he's used to having people around all the time and my situation is such that it won't be that way out in the country spending time during work hours by himself. May have to pass on this one.

[firefly1957]

My aunt loves the breed but i have heard her complain about high medical costs too seems hers (several American bull dogs) all have congenital defects ? I have not had any personal experience with them i Have had a corgi and have another and both were/are good dogs the first one was a alpha male the second one has issues but has twice backed down coyotes . I think the smartest dog i have had was a Irish Setter the absolute dumbest a Chocolate lab .

[texaswoodworker]

I cannot think of a thing that a pit bull is good for besides fighting and turning on a person.

Don't believe everything you see on TV. They get a bad rep, but it's the owners fault, not theirs. As with any dog, you need to train them right. If they're aggressive and misbehave, you failed as a trainer.

We have one (mixed) and she is useless as a guard dog. She's too dang nice.

[TheDoctor]

I currently have one. Call her The Buffalo. Full steam ahead, 70 pounds of rock hard muscular
wrecking ball. Seems to have the intelligence of a dalmatian. Really sweet dog, extremely
submissive with humans, just dumber than a bucket of rocks, and clumsy. Give me a staffordshire
any day. Love those dogs. Best dog I own is a border collie/blue heeler mix. He's more
intelligent than some people I know. Was very difficult to raise as a pup, learned a lot about
dogs from him that I didn't know.

[freebullet]

My last dog was a border collie mix. Smartest dog I've ever seen. He could learn very fast. It was scary how fast he would learn. He could open doors, anticipate yer next move accurately, he knew over 30 commands, got the game of being a bird flusher, a retriever, a protector of smaller dogs, and a down right good dog that could figure things out on his own. I'd have no argument with border collies listed as smartest. It been years since ours passed and I miss him like day one. He was a border collie mutt. Haven't hunted upland birds since he's gone. It's not the same without him. If he heard a shotgun racked he was there and ready.

He was a gentle giant. Only things that weren't safe around him were birds, boxes, and bunnies. He would hold indefinitely with steak 1" from his nose waiting for my command. Aside from losing a human loved one i can't think of anything harder.

R.I.P. Spooter