Winchester .44 ID

[Boolseye]

Hi Folks,
can I get a little help IDing this piece?
Buddy picked it up for 4 bills. He said late 1800s.
132365132366132367
-BE

[Outpost75]

Looks like a Winchester '73. Nice score for $400, even if trashed bore and in need of repairs. Bad bore can be relined. Parts are available. Classic!

[Speedo66]

Yeah, that's a '73. If it's a .44, it's a .44WCF AKA .44-40. He can go here and check the serial # for exact year of manufacture. http://www.winchesterguns.com/support/files/images/wfa/2012-All/2012-Articles/Winchester-Manufacture-Dates-by-Year----2012-Scanned-Documents.pdf

If he wants to get really crazy, he can pay the fee to the Cody Museum and get a letter stating how it was equipped originally, and who it was shipped to.

If he paid $400 for a working, shooting gun, he stole it at that price. They have been known to shoot surprisingly well even if the bore looks horrible. The soft steel barrels are recommended for lead only, no copper jackets.

[jonp]

Darn, do I see a sideplate? Looks like a '73 to me too. $400 was a screaming deal on that one. Ask your friend if he would like to sell that🎰

[Boolseye]

Alright guys, thanks much for the info.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I can't make out enough to be sure it isn't someone's slightly distressed modern clone of the 73. But I think it is more likely to be the genuine article, and the serial numbers should clear that up. They were made surprisingly late, considering that the 92 could do everything they could.

More important than the jacket, even, is not using it with high pressure smokeless loads. These aren't a good idea in the 73 anyway, but it should perform very well, bore permitting, with those of approximately black powder pressures. Don't give up on the bore without giving it a fair trial. Some rough-looking ones work surprisingly well.

[Boolseye]

Thanks again. I'm pretty sure my friend won't shoot it, but you never know! It would be fun to reload for. What would a person load into such a gun? Will it accept .44 special or .44 mag brass? Just ballpark and basic, guys–I know nothing about the gun but what you've told me.

[Outpost75]

You need .44-40 brass to load or suitable lead bullet ammo which does not exceed 13,700 cup, and is safe to use in the 1873. If in sound condition there is no reason not to enjoy shooting it. Starline brass, large pistol primers, a set of Lee dies and a can of Trail Boss will get you started. You can buy suitable lead Cowboy bullets to start, but if you want to cast your own Accurate has several traditional designs which work well with either black powder or suitable smokeless loads.

132423

[Boolseye]

Very nice–thanks
-BE

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Any cartridges the makers intend to be suitable for old .44-40 revolvers should be just fine, and quite enough to have a lot of good fun or smallish-game shooting with. It you reload you would need, appropriately enough, .44-40 brass, which isn't the easiest to find, but closer to that than really difficult. It will probably chamber and fire .44 Special brass, but that is dangerous - not just a little, but VERY.

The base of the case isn't unlike the .45 Long Colt, but around .011in. smaller, so you probably can't just run .45 LC cases into the .45-70 die. RCBS and others will probably sell you an excellent and expensive form die if you like, but I would try reducing the 45LC neck with my .40-82 or 7.5x53.5 Swiss dies.

[Speedo66]

Ammo is available here: http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/index.php/cName/pistol-ammo-4440-winchester

[Boolseye]

was this rifle altered with the advent of smokeless powder, or were the new smokeless cartridges merely used in the same rifle? I see that the original load was 40 gr. of BP under a 200 grain slug, later to change to 17 gr. of Dupont #2 smokeless. I'm not about to experiment, I'm just curious what an equivalent load would look like with today's powders. Those original loads do not seem that timid to me.

[Speedo66]

That gun was originally BP, but many, including myself, shoot them with light smokeless loads. Trailboss powders has a chart for that cartridge with light enough pressure limits for that gun.

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

[Boolseye]

Cool, thanks.

[Foto Joe]

The 40 grains of 2f Black Powder stuffed under a boolit on that rifle was indeed an impressive load. With todays brass you wouldn't be able to cram that much into one but you could definitely load enough to be exciting.

If you've never loaded 44-40 before keep in mind that it will be a learning experience and to order enough brass to destroy a few during your education. Using a separate crimp die from your seating die is almost mandatory with 44-40 unless you've got a lot of brass to ruin. The tapered brass is extremely fragile and one mis-step on the press will cost you a piece of hard to find brass. I don't mean to put you off on this but it probably took me close to a year to finally get good at loading these things, then again I might not be as bright as you.[smilie=s:

[Boolseye]

I appreciate all the info. This is my friend's gun that I'm researching, so I don't know that I'll ever have a need to load for 44-40. It is appealing to me, however, and I've got a jump on things thanks to you guys. I noticed Track of The Wolf had about the only 44-40 brass available on the net.

[TXGunNut]

Unless your friend has pretty deep pockets he won't get much shooting done unless someone does some loading for his 44 WCF. Hard to beat a range trip with a rifle like that and a box or two of good BP loads.

[w30wcf]

was this rifle altered with the advent of smokeless powder, or were the new smokeless cartridges merely used in the same rifle? I see that the original load was 40 gr. of BP under a 200 grain slug, later to change to 17 gr. of Dupont #2 smokeless. I'm not about to experiment, I'm just curious what an equivalent load would look like with today's powders. Those original loads do not seem that timid to me.

No, not altered. In 1895, smokeless cartridges were introduced and could be used in the same rifle. At that time and up until around 1970, the factory smokeless cartridges would give the same ballistics as the b.p. cartridge which became obsolete in the late 1930's.

After 1970, the factories switched to a faster burning powder which gave reduced ballistics at b.p. pressures.

w30wcf