Bad H&R news

[Skipper]

Note from Brian at Remington this morning....





Production just had a meeting, and was told that all orders were cancelled and H&R is officially closed. I will still be doing repairs until I run out of parts.
If you call H&R please do not mention my name. I could get into trouble. I just had to give all my friends here on GBO the news.

[jmort]

really, this is old news. It was common knowledge that there were no more handi rifles. and this just confirms what we already knew, and also confirms that whoever was in denial before now knows they were wrong all along.

[45coltnut]

Thanks for sharing the news, Skipper. That's too bad as they are very good, economical guns. I used my grandfathers 30-30 last year to take three nice deer. Allot of memories made by many people with those guns!

[MT Gianni]

I understood they had kept the gun but stopped the bbl program. Another example of how not to run a business.

[seaboltm]

I love the Handi's. But truthfully, bolt guns got so cheap I quit buying them. Of course the Handi's had the barrel program and pistol calibers, and that was darn cool. When I was looking at a 223 rifle a few years ago, I bought a Savage/Stevens. It cost $25 more than the Handi at the time and it was a magazine fed bolt gun. What will be missed are inexpensive 357 and 44 mag guns and other pistol calibers. There is not an affordable substitute for those calibers. Cheap 30-30's are EZ to find.

[jeff223]

I have a H&R 10 ga turkey gun,a 20ga ultraslug,a 12ga Tracker II and a 357max handi rifle.I wont be needing any more of them.I hope nothing ever breaks in the frames as parts will not be around very long.

Its to bad Remington is doing away with H&R as they are a pretty good gun without spending alot of money on them but for those in need of a good single shot they can always get the CVA Hunter or Scout

[.30-06 fan]

I own handi-rifles 12 gauge survival nef, 30-06 stainless steel and a 22lr sportster. They are doubles for the other rifles that i own.

I like handi rifles, just like the simplicity and compact size.

I am sadend that H&R handi-rifles are gone. But happy that i have 3 of them.

[jmort]

I have three receivers, seven barrels and an Ultra Slug Hunter. Big fan.

[.30-06 fan]

I hope the adapter guys survive. that was another thing about the handi shotgun all the adapters that are available for it.

[NavyVet1959]

I've currently got a line on an H&R .38/.357. They guy wants $250 for it without the scope and $300 with the scope. I've offered him $225 without the scope. It's a pretty good drive from here, but I've been wanting one of those so that I can rechamber it for .357 max.

With the cost of .22LR ammo these days, a single shot .38 rifle with low powered loads makes a good gun for introducing new shooters to the sport. With the right load, it's quieter than the standard velocity .22LRs.

[725]

What a shame. I guess the bean counters win again.

[Magana559]

I've been waiting for two barrels for months! Extremely disappointed in Remington!

[jmort]

I sent two receivers in November for two barrels each and just got one back. The other is in a black hole apparently

[dlbarr]

Yeah, I just bought a cut-down BC barrel from a private party. It dropped right in and fired etc. Only thing is, the action pops open upon firing. Have been working on the fix and not getting much of anywhere, called the NEF/HR repair line and got a work order # to send it in about a month ago. Hesitated because I thought I could probably still "do it myself"....beginning to rethink that, but now it really is too late for that option. I am likely going to have to find one of those guys over on the GBO site that lives close by, that knows how to fix this and hire it done.

Really too bad about NEF, even though I have all the frames and barrels I want, I hate to see them go down. Dirty shame.

[Hickory]

I've been waiting for two barrels for months! Extremely disappointed in Remington!

Shutting down H&R may have been the goal when Remington bought it.
It's not unusual for a company to buyout the competition run until that they have gotten enough profit back from the purchase and then shutting it down.

[Ben]

Buy an organization and then close it.
Does that sound familiar ?

[Ben]

Maybe an individual with some machinist skills will step in & offer firing pins , extractor replacements , etc . That would be a big help in keeping these rifles shooting.

Might be a nice little sideline business for someone ?

[cajun shooter]

It's done all the time for tax purpose. Buy then show a huge loss for that all so important tax loop hole advantage. Regular working stiffs such as myself don't understand all the ins and outs but we see it all the time. Later David

[Mr Peabody]

Any one going to be surprised to see Rossi make a run at this niche?

[NavyVet1959]

What makes the break actions like the H&R so nice is the flexibility for experimentation and their inherent strength of design and how relatively inexpensive they are. If you are wanting to create a wildcat, just find a barrel with the right bore diameter and then rechamber it to something larger so that you can get more powder in there. Want a .308 case with a .223" projectile? Buy a .223 H&R and have it rechambered. You'll probably have to modify the extractor also, but I don't think it would be that difficult.

[KLR]

Any one going to be surprised to see Rossi make a run at this niche?

I've read that they are cutting back and/or dropping their single shot line.

[dragon813gt]

How many non reloaders use single shots? Out of everyone I know that owns firearms not a single one that doesn't reload. It's a small niche market. I'm not saying killing the like off was the right thing to do. But people want bolts and semis. Even levers are feeling the pinch.

[NavyVet1959]

How many non reloaders use single shots? Out of everyone I know that owns firearms not a single one that doesn't reload. It's a small niche market. I'm not saying killing the like off was the right thing to do. But people want bolts and semis. Even levers are feeling the pinch.

With a bolt action, you are limited in the size of a cartridge that you can modify it to chamber. Plus, it's probably more involved getting the bolt to accept a different cartridge. With a break action, your only limit is the length and diameter of the barrel. :) That's pretty flexible in my book...

[dragon813gt]

With a bolt action, you are limited in the size of a cartridge that you can modify it to chamber. Plus, it's probably more involved getting the bolt to accept a different cartridge. With a break action, your only limit is the length and diameter of the barrel. :) That's pretty flexible in my book...

Again, you aren't describing the majority of gun owners. They shoot rifles that take ammo that they buy at WalMart. They don't know how long the cartridges are. They don't know how many grains of powder are in the case. Single shots are a very small niche market. Which is why Ruger is only producing them for Lipsey's now. Yes, that rifle is a lot more money which makes it less appealing than a H&R. When you can buy one of the bargain bolt actions for $300 a H&R isn't attractive to most people.

Many firearms have died over the years. I will never understand why the Savage 99 isn't being made anymore. And that one had a much broader appeal than a H&R.

[30calflash]

Dittos on above. Most go for price/popularity. Commonly available ammo makes it a seller also.

I think the Savage 99's were costly to make, hence the end of the production.

Bill Ruger stated that the original 44 mag carbine was deceptively expensive to produce.

CNC has a made a difference for many manufacturers. A large company with good sales can play the game with specialty items now and then.

[JSnover]

Maybe an individual with some machinist skills will step in offer firing pin , extractor replacement , etc and help keep these rifles shooting.

Might be a nice little sideline business for someone ?
I hope so. They're so simple it would be a shame if someone didn't.

[richhodg66]

I have several Handis and like them for what they are. My first shotgun was a Topper Model 158 (which I still have). Good guns for the money and have a lot going for them.

Wife saw me looking at a CVA Optima Elite shortly before Christmas and it ended up under the tree for me as a result. I must say, I am more impressed by it as a single shot rifle than the Handis. CVA is selling spare barrels too, although not in as many calibers as H&R did. I also like the old Savage 219, though they don't seem as robust as the Handis.

Sad to see H&R go away, they are a grand old name even if they aren't the same company.

[.30-06 fan]

How many non reloaders use single shots? Out of everyone I know that owns firearms not a single one that doesn't reload. It's a small niche market. I'm not saying killing the like off was the right thing to do. But people want bolts and semis. Even levers are feeling the pinch.


Again, you aren't describing the majority of gun owners. They shoot rifles that take ammo that they buy at WalMart. They don't know how long the cartridges are. They don't know how many grains of powder are in the case. Single shots are a very small niche market. Which is why Ruger is only producing them for Lipsey's now. Yes, that rifle is a lot more money which makes it less appealing than a H&R. When you can buy one of the bargain bolt actions for $300 a H&R isn't attractive to most people.

Many firearms have died over the years. I will never understand why the Savage 99 isn't being made anymore. And that one had a much broader appeal than a H&R.

H&R is certaily not as popular as a gremington or mossburg, but they do have a very loyal following even with non handloaders.
Those Survivalist types really like H&R, and there are few of those in North America, it's an expanding market....

[richhodg66]

What is the likelihood of someone else buyin the name and starting production again? There are some old guns that I think are just ripe for reintroduction to the market, the Savage 340 really springs to mind.

[hendere]

I have two Handis that I love very much but couldn't get barrels for either (one is a SB1 frame and the other was from a batch that they wouldn't work on). They are both incredibly fun to shoot. My 357 Mag is one of my favorite guns period. I always thought that having more barrels would be huge amounts of fun. Sad news.

[jonp]

Dang. This might be old news to some but it's the first I've heard of it. I bought a 35 whelen from buds last year for $200 or so with the intention of getting a 45-70 buffalo barrel. Now who knows. I think I'll see how many spare parts for it I can find.

Darn

[dtknowles]

I have two Toppers and one Handi and they get some range time. Not really a lover of the guns made recently the wood was all poor and poorly fitted (way over sized). If someone was to bring them back should they chase the same market, the low end? In what ways do you like Handi's more than say an Encore or Contender. Maybe someone could make a cheap knock-off of the Encore then the barrels would not have to be factory fitted.

Tim

[GhostHawk]

I got lucky, I had just sent my receiver in for a couple of barrels when the rumors started flying.

Eventually Brian was able to get back to work, find my receiver, and fit a 7.62x39 and .357 mag to it. I had also ordered a .44 mag barrel but that evaporated somehow.

Anyway, I'm happy with what I have.

Would love to have a 9mm barrel for my Handi, but that is likely to be a custom stubb job.
Tossup between that and a baby rolling block in .357!

[dtknowles]

I got lucky, I had just sent my receiver in for a couple of barrels when the rumors started flying.

Eventually Brian was able to get back to work, find my receiver, and fit a 7.62x39 and .357 mag to it. I had also ordered a .44 mag barrel but that evaporated somehow.

Anyway, I'm happy with what I have.

Would love to have a 9mm barrel for my Handi, but that is likely to be a custom stubb job.
Tossup between that and a baby rolling block in .357!

I would vote to go with the baby rolling block but I am not sure I would go with a .357. RB's are so much nicer to shoot off a bench than a Handi.

Tim

[nanuk]

Why would anyone want a $300 bolt gun when you can get a $300 break action

$300 bolt guns are like vanilla ice cream. Yeah, it tastes OK, but why bother when for the same price, you can get triple chocolate!

I own very few bolt guns now, sold most of them.
I own a lot of break actions.

[Lefty Red]

Why would anyone want a $300 bolt gun when you can get a $300 break action

$300 bolt guns are like vanilla ice cream. Yeah, it tastes OK, but why bother when for the same price, you can get triple chocolate!

I own very few bolt guns now, sold most of them.
I own a lot of break actions.

Sure, I would pay $300 for s good single shot. But a H&R is NOT worth $300! Hell, I would $600 for good single shot. As long as it is worth it.

[dtknowles]

I like single shot rifles. I even have two single shot bolt action rifles. Break actions are my least favorite single shot actions. Rolling block and dropping block actions are my favorite. My most favorite is my Remington Hepburn. When I am shooting off bags on the bench I don't want to have to move the gun to load the next round, no way to avoid that with a break action rifle. Shooting prone both break actions and most dropping block actions disturb your shooting position to reload. I like the Hepburn for its side lever instead of the under lever. Martini's have the same under lever problem and I don't like the bulky receiver either. All that said, if they can make $300 bolt action rifles then they should be able to make $250 break action rifle with interchangeable barrels, it would not be pretty.

Tim

[NavyVet1959]

I never had paid much attention to the dropping block or rotating block firearms, but after Tim mentioned them, I looked them up to get a better understanding of them. I have to admit, there is something kind of elegant about the design. I can definitely see how the rolling block would be better on the benchrest than a break action. One advantage of the break action is in disassembly for transport in a case or shipping. For many of the break actions, you can pop the handguard off and then remove the barrel without even any tools -- others just require a screwdriver. For me though, the question would be how well the rotating block design would allow swapping barrels with alternate calibers. Swapping barrels in my Thompson Encore (or an H&R break action) requires a couple of minutes with minimal tools. I like flexibility in designs and I like them to be strong enough that they can handle pretty much anything that I might throw at them.

[Lonegun1894]

Yeah, I just bought a cut-down BC barrel from a private party. It dropped right in and fired etc. Only thing is, the action pops open upon firing. Have been working on the fix and not getting much of anywhere, called the NEF/HR repair line and got a work order # to send it in about a month ago. Hesitated because I thought I could probably still "do it myself"....beginning to rethink that, but now it really is too late for that option. I am likely going to have to find one of those guys over on the GBO site that lives close by, that knows how to fix this and hire it done.

Really too bad about NEF, even though I have all the frames and barrels I want, I hate to see them go down. Dirty shame.

Try degreasing the locking surfaces between the barrel and the receiver. My 12ga pops open if I don't pay attention and get a bit of oil on it. But take the same gun and make sure there's no oil, and it locks like a vault door.

[Texantothecore]

I have been expecting this. All of the Milleniums I know want ars and aks. Chalk it up to a lack of spendable cash as well as the effect of war games.

Having recently shot with a large number of millenials and older guys the overall impression of the older guys was "The younger guys shoot at 200 rounds per minute, the older guys shoot one round every two minutes. The younger ones couldn't hit anything but could throw a huge amount of lead down range."

I am sorry to see this happen as a 5.56 round just doesn"t measure up to a .45-70.

[cajun shooter]

I have my Buffalo Classic and my heavy bbl .308 with thumbhole stock and my nickel receiver 12 ga. Those three will never be sold. Those who follow will receive them. Later David

[Texantothecore]

I have my BC too and it will not be sold. My grand daughter will get it along with my cartridges and the knowledge of how to load them.

[Uncle R.]

Remington missed the boat.
The Handi needed a plastic stock with built-in speed feed cartridge dispenser and a heat shield forend.
A parkerized finish or (Even better!) metal AND stock in digital urban camo with multiple accessory rails and a bayonet lug.
Yep - the Tactical Handi!
It could have saved the marque.
<
Sigh.
<
The proud old name of Harrington And Richardson has survived a shutdown before - maybe it can once again rise like a phoenix.
Until then, perhaps collector interest will grow.
<
Uncle R.

[Texantothecore]

All they had to do was paint it black and ship it with a picatinny rail so that you could dress it up, then take a few pieces off and dress it with new stuff. Just like our daughters do with their dolls.

I do suspect that the company will be back as 22 caliber at some point will become boring.

[NavyVet1959]

All they had to do was paint it black and ship it with a picatinny rail so that you could dress it up, then take a few pieces off and dress it with new stuff. Just like our daughters do with their dolls.

Uhhh... They DID do that... The rail was on the top of the barrel for a scope though. Even offered it with a threaded barrel on the .300 AAC model...

[oldred]

Please tell me you guys are joking!

[NavyVet1959]

Please tell me you guys are joking!

Nope...

http://www.hr1871.com/Images/photo_sportster_17.jpg

http://www.hr1871.com/Images/photo_Synthetic_23rem.jpg

http://www.hr1871.com/Images/photo_survivor.jpg

[jmort]

There were sold for years. Not tactical, obviously. If you are new to Handi Rifles I suppose you could be confused.

[Echd]

Love my BC... there's a 500 SW one at the gun shop for $350 or so with dies, should I buy it?

[jmort]

Yes. The .500 S&W is crazy powerful in a rifle. 700 grain bullets would be cool.

[Tackleberry41]

Any one going to be surprised to see Rossi make a run at this niche?

Apparently not, I was in the LGS other day and seems Rossi is stopping production of their single shots. Somebody had come in to see about trading in a Rossi he had, but now the book prices have dropped to get rid of exisiting inventory. Guy at the shop was saying something like $150 now. The customer was a bit disappointed as he paid more than than for a used one, and now couldn't get much for it in trade. Guess this means parts will be even more unavailable than before.

Guess the price of bolt guns has come down to a point its not really viable to sell single shots anymore?

It is a good bet that the H&R shutdown is part of some tax thing. They bought the company, bled it for all it was worth, now sell it off in pieces while still claiming a loss on taxes. Over 100 yo brand gone so a few people can make a couple bucks. Wonder what wal street is gonna do when they have destroyed everything and theres nothing left to steal.

[NavyVet1959]

Yes. The .500 S&W is crazy powerful in a rifle. 700 grain bullets would be cool.

If you are wanting to toss that much lead downrange, consider the H&R Ultra Slug Hunter in 12-gauge and 20-gauge. They have a very heavy rifled barrel and have plenty of room for experimentation.

[jmort]

I have a Ultra Slug Hunter and a 900 grain slug mold. When someone asks should I buy a gun, within reason, my answer would be yes, unless the gun is defective. The .500 S&W really shines in a rifle.

[troyboy]

My difficulties arise in understanding how, after record sales and profits from this last panic buying spree, so many of the manufactures are in a financial straights. The Handi has been on shakey ground for some time and this really comes as no suprise. The price point has risen and qc has fallen. The end is truly a shame as the platform is excellent for a reloader,wildcater,expermentor, rifleman,hunter, etc. Hopefully the Handi rifle will return with new owners but this is doubtful. Look at where the T/C has gone.

[Texantothecore]

I wish someone would devep a switch barrel rolling block. The rolling block sold 70 million copies and for good reason. They were reliable and accurate. A fairly low price point would probably work to its advantage.

[30calflash]

Yes. The .500 S&W is crazy powerful in a rifle. 700 grain bullets would be cool.
Always thought it was a 50/70 in modern form. Wish I got one when they were readily available.

[oldred]

I wish someone would develop a switch barrel rolling block. The rolling block sold 70 million copies and for good reason. They were reliable and accurate. A fairly low price point would probably work to its advantage.


I personally would also like to see such a rifle but while it may seem like it would be economical enough as simple as they would be to build, honestly would there really be enough market for them to be produced in high enough numbers so that a low price could be attained? The thing is that while a lot of us here, certainly me, would run straight to a new Rolling Block, Sharps or HighWall sitting in the rack the fact is that by FAR most customers are going to pass them right on by and go to the "Black" rifles and modern style bolt/lever guns.

Personally I can walk out of a gun shop and could not tell you if there was a "Black" rifle even in the rack, they are of no interest to me, but to LOTs of other folks they, and to a lesser extent the modern bolt/lever guns, are only things on the shelves! Take a look at any magazine rack and see what's on the covers of every single one of them except maybe for magazines dedicated to the old style guns.

[725]

dlbarr - Your action popping open may be related to oil or lube on the surfaces within the action. Open it, and degrease the two mating surfaces and your problem may go away.

[Geezer in NH]

It seems the big corporation anti-gun corporation is working as planned.

Why else buy up everything and then stop production? The rumor now is proving true

[freebullet]

I wonder if they will sell off the equipment and tooling and such. Seems there is going to be a real good opportunity for someone with the drive to fill this void. To the big corporate boys it may not be worth it, but a smaller firm could act quickly and take advantage of the opening.

[rfd]

h&r filled a certain long gun niche - uber practicality, decent build, some amount of s/s nostalgia, cheap as dirt - but little corporate profits. in this 21st century, they were doomed to disappear sooner than later. there's nothing truly stellar about any of the handi rifles. "practical" is perhaps their best description. i've had at least 6 or 7, they all got the job done but these dayze there are far better rifles for about the same dollar$ to be had. the buffalo classic 45-70 was a fine introduction to both that caliber and medium range shooting, though not truly competitive. still, h&r will be missed by me and many .......

[oldred]

It seems the big corporation anti-gun corporation is working as planned.

Why else buy up everything and then stop production? The rumor now is proving true


Well tin foil hat time here folks!

Now let's see, the big gun outfits are all in some big conspiracy to eliminate guns from private citizens? Yeah, ok that makes a lot of sense and there's little doubt that's exactly what they're up to, yeah that's it!

Of course there's simply no way they had any intention of buying out competition possibly or as another poster so intelligently suggested they made this move to save a bundle in taxes while at the same time acquiring some equipment, on no it can't be anything like that it absolutely must be some sinister motive! :groner:

[Tackleberry41]

I doubt its a sinister thing, just typical wal street greed. They do it with everything, Gibson guitars was going under it was bought out by a wal street guy, and has been down hill ever since. Not from a sales standpoint, people will line up to buy dog turds if it said gibson on it. But apparently the place is terrible to work for, they ran off all the old hands who made the guitars and went for cheaper inexperienced people, with a high turn over. But the math works out where they can still make money, quality isnt really a concern.

[oldred]

Well greed or not it's about profit, making money, the big corporations want to make money and they are not into some kind of big sinister conspiracy! I have no doubt that some corporate big-wigs support one cause or another that they might believe in but to suggest that H&R was bought out as part of a conspiracy to eliminate guns is just silly, especially considering who bought them!


Why does EVERYTHING have to be due to some kind of conspiracy when logical explanations are so obvious? Some folks are going to see evil in everything I suppose, no matter what!

[dlbarr]

dlbarr - Your action popping open may be related to oil or lube on the surfaces within the action. Open it, and degrease the two mating surfaces and your problem may go away.

Yep, I did that. Condition persisted.

[dlbarr]

Well greed or not it's about profit, making money, the big corporations want to make money and they are not into some kind of big sinister conspiracy! I have no doubt that some corporate big-wigs support one cause or another that they might believe in but to suggest that H&R was bought out as part of a conspiracy to eliminate guns is just silly, especially considering who bought them!


Why does EVERYTHING have to be due to some kind of conspiracy when logical explanations are so obvious? Some folks are going to see evil in everything I suppose, no matter what!

Exactly.

I'm as big a fan of H&R as there is...regrettably, I don't have enough $$ to act on my H&R impulses. And I wish Remington had made different decisions regarding one of my favs. But, frankly, I haven't viewed the corporate financials and therefore couldn't know if or how much of a profit center the H&R line was. If it was making money in its then-current form, you can bet they wouldn't have dispensed with it.

Would YOU keep doing work that paid you less than you would optimally want to receive?? NOPE - you'd change something. In that, they're just like you & me. I'm fairly certain they didn't set out to ruin your day....

[Tackleberry41]

Even if H&R was somewhat profitable, if they could make 10 cents more gutting the company thats the direction they would go.

Wal street people dont really think past the quarterly statement. You could point out, but you will make $100 over the next 12 mo, they would argue they can make $10 right now. I have worked at some big corporate places and the stupid decisions they made were mind boggling. Worked at a mercedes dealer they didnt want to pay to fix our computer, it was $40 an hour, ok thats great but we cant fix cars without it, so how much business are you losing? But is $40 an hour, yea and we charge $90 an hour to fix cars....but its $40 an hour.

[Texantothecore]

Ever since the run on ar-15s and AKs began I have been concerned that the msrket demand for those rifles would overwhelm the single shot and especially the bp markets. This comes as no surprise to me. All the millenials with whom I speak with are hot for those two platforms so it has been a bit predictable. Many of them tend to regard both platforms as the ultimate rifles and greatly over exagerste their capabilities. They burn cash quickly, I will admit that.

Personally I think those platforms are boring but that is just me.

[oldred]

I could be wrong but I honestly think video games probably have about as much or more to do with the surge of "Black" rifles as anything else. At least a couple of guys I know fit that description and I'm willing to bet there are many more.

[Texantothecore]

I think the video game has a lot to do with it. Apparently they don't seem to understand that it is just a medium speed 22. The 22-250 is high speed at 4100 fps rather 2800 fps.


To hear them talk the ar is a great deer rifle rather a decent varmint rifle. It is a shame because for what they pay for a video game they could have a decent rifle. Hopefully this will turn around.

[dlbarr]

Ever since the run on ar-15s and AKs began I have been concerned that the msrket demand for those rifles would overwhelm the single shot and especially the bp markets. This comes as no surprise to me. All the millenials with whom I speak with are hot for those two platforms so it has been a bit predictable. Many of them tend to regard both platforms as the ultimate rifles and greatly over exagerste their capabilities. They burn cash quickly, I will admit that.

Personally I think those platforms are boring but that is just me.

Yep, me too. My son's boss is in his late 20's and a great young man....but we talk firearms/shooting/hunting he says: "...you're old school...I'm a 21st century shooter/hunter.."

It's all good...maturity always takes awhile. He'll get there... :smile:

[Texantothecore]

On the other hand, Second Amendment support is extremely high in that group due to the games they play. The video games are definitely a mixed bag

[NavyVet1959]

I could be wrong but I honestly think video games probably have about as much or more to do with the surge of "Black" rifles as anything else.

On the other hand, for us older guys who played Doom, I don't seem to remember there being a great demand to own a chain gun in real life.

[oldred]

Maybe not but owning one would sure be a hoot!

[NavyVet1959]

Maybe not but owning one would sure be a hoot!

Until you found out that there was a hidden clause in the purchase contract that said that you had to load all the ammo for it on a single stage press. :)