How much pewter to pure pb for magnum alloy

[hunter74]

From my local scrap yard I can get pure lead and tin.

My supply of lino is depleted so I'll have to think new to make my magnum alloy for 44 magnum and Casull and 460. I usually mixed 50/50 pure and lono.

What would you do to make about the same hardness with pewter and pure lead? I'm aware that this question is hard to answer when I don't know the hardness or antimony content of my pewter....

I'm thinking of trying out 1:16 or 1:20 for my alloy, for starters. Good old Elmer Keith got this to work quite good in his 44 as I've read

Even tin is expensive this could be a way to harden my pure lead. I have a Lee tester and I water drop.

If I don't get this to work another option is to buy a really expensive known alloy with high antimony content to sweeten my pure.

Thanks!

[bumpo628]

Download my alloy calculator and try a few mixes until you get the percentages you want. It has "standard" pewter stats in there already, as well as 16-1 and 20-1.
You can basically treat pewter as pure tin so the ratios are simply 16 to 1 or 20 to 1 to get what you want. ex.: 16 lbs pure lead mixed with 1 lb pewter.

The link to the calculator thread is in my sig. below and the file can be downloaded off the first post.

[454PB]

Pewter is not going to raise the hardness much, you need antimony for that. Also, antimony is needed for heat treating.

[runfiverun]

you could get by with tin and lead but I don't know how far up the scale it will get you.
the 44 with 16-1 should work okay. [and I have pushed 20-1 pretty hard in my 45 colt]

but I don't know if the alloy will handle the casulls velocity/pressure and for sure it would strip in the 460, even with it's gain twist rifling.
you could up the tin percentage to 10-1, it has been used as a rifle alloy [rcbs]
you get what you get with tin/lead alloys, there is no heat treating option.

you could do both and get the lead and tin from the yard.
then buy the other additive alloy and use it as needed where needed.

[bangerjim]

Add hardball (Sb rich), not pewter (Sn rich).

Use the alloy calc to see how much.

Water dropping will gain you no hardness with just Sn. Sb is where you gain hardness with quenching.

Pewter (Sn) will not get you the hardness you sound like you want. Do not use more that 2% Sn to increase fill-out - it is very expensive and should be conserved. Hardball is not that expensive.

banger

[h8dirt]

IIRC -- Tin will only give you about 1 BHN point per 3% added to a lead alloy. Soft (pure) lead is about 8 BHN. So, to get up to 15 BHN using only tin, you would need an alloy that is about 20%+ tin. Antimony will add about one BHN point per %. Take "bangerjim's" advice, this is a far cheaper route. And, remember that hardness can be lost during mechanical sizing operations so water quench (or temper) after sizing in order to retain the hardness added by heat treatment.

[Chill Wills]

Hmmmm:shock: OK.

[bhn22]

Try this... 25% pure & 75% magnum shot from the sporting goods store. Add about 2% tin by weight. Do your initial melting of the shot outdoors, then mix everything else in before taking indoors to cast with. This should heat-treat well, either with the oven method, or water drop into cold water direct from the mould. If you water drop from the mould, do keep the bucket of water a couple of steps from the lead pot.

[cajun shooter]

Have you read the book that is available on this forum by the name of "From Ingot To Target"? It has about 170 pages and is a worth while download and print out for a 3 ring binder. The best part is the authors made it free to us. A big thanks to Glen Fryxell and Rob Applegate!! Later David

[hunter74]

Thanks for all good advice! Once again I have learned something new.

The book mentioned is good! I have read it a couple of times but some of the info clearly has escaped my mind!

I'll use lead-tin alloy for 38 plinking loads and 9mm and antimony alloy for the magnum loads. I guess that's the way to go. In this country lead wheel weights is no longer allowed som they are hard to get hold of. I know they still use lead for the weigts on big trucks so I guess it's time to visit the local tyre shops.

Thanks

[bangerjim]

hunter74.............can you get shotgun shot over there? It is higher in Sb. As bhn22 said above, magnum shot is very rich in Sb.

banger

[hunter74]

Not right now since lead shot has been forbidden for hunting. It's about to change since they this year has passed a new law that opened up to use lead shot for hunting again 😲.

I can see that this lead shot is a good source for antimony rich lead.

As I understand mixing in pure antimony is a task best left for the professionals!

[imashooter2]

Without antimony it's going to be tough to get there. A handy chart:

http://home.comcast.net/~imashooter2/pictures/fig8-sm.JPG

[runfiverun]

antimony is time consuming and tedious to mix into an alloy, nothing more nothing less.
don't eat it and you'll live just as long as you would normally.

[hunter74]

What kind of hardness can I expect when whater quenching hardball ammo, 92/2/6? My guess is that this could be hard enough for 460 when gas checked.

[JimA]

You might want to get some Superhard alloy from Rotometals. It's not cheap but it's the easiest way to add antimony to your alloy. A little goes quite a ways.

[454PB]

What kind of hardness can I expect when whater quenching hardball ammo, 92/2/6? My guess is that this could be hard enough for 460 when gas checked.

Yes, plenty hard enough! I get 28 to 30 BHN.

[montana_charlie]

IIRC -- Tin will only give you about 1 BHN point per 3% added to a lead alloy. Soft (pure) lead is about 8 BHN. So, to get up to 15 BHN using only tin, you would need an alloy that is about 20%+ tin. Antimony will add about one BHN point per %.Hmmmm:shock: OK.
Where do you suppose people come up with information like that, Chilly?

CM

[cajun shooter]

I agree 100% with you MC !!! Not from anything I've seen in my casting years since 1970, that's for sure. Tin will only give you up to a BHN in the 16 area then it fades with time. You can add all you want after this with no results and a waste of material.
As they say in the book "From Ingot to Target", Tin will top out at a 16 BHN with a 40% mixture but you only need 8% of antimony to achieve the same results. You would need some deep pockets to have your bullets made up of a 40% tin mix, that is for sure. Later David

[Larry Gibson]

Hunter74

A binary alloy of 1-16 tin - lead is excellent for the 44 magnum. It is what Keith settled on for the 44 Magnum. Also don't bother WQing or HTing as it will not harden that binary alloy. You'll be just fine with the 1-16 alloy w/o having to mix anything further. Also the 1-16 alloy will be just fine with the GC'd 460 up 1600+ fps.

Larry Gibson