45-70 OAL Case Size

[Matt Muir]

Hello all, I was just wondering what OAL is average for a Shiloh or other makes are. I can load to between 2.90 and 3.00 in mine and it seems to be touching lands. Thats fine with me groups with certain test loads are comming along great. But, I see PP fellas seating their bullets only 1/4 to 3/16 and can not figure how this can be done with the 535 gr rounds. I have to seat mine greater than 1/2 in (.565) or the lands will pull the bullet out of the case if I try and remove. I see that the popular choice for long range is over 500 gr.

Are these longer seated rounds in a 45-90 or 45-110? I have to cover almost all the GG'S to have mine chamber.

Thanks ,Matt

[405]

Matt,
It could be a couple of things.

Some of the BPCR folks like to get as much powder in there as possible for greater velocity thus better ballistics for long range shooting. They may have either custom reamed long throats or if shooting paper patch can seat farther out with a longer ogive nose and/or the PP bullet that is under groove size enough that just the paper is engraving with a small amount of compression into the bullet shank by the lands. With the soft lead PP it's fairly easy to seat at least somewhat longer than with the regular full diameter cast bullet.

The front bearing band on the regular type cast alloy bullets sized to full groove diameter will usually ride abruptly into the lands requiring deeper bullet seating. It's not unusual for this to happen in the Shiloh and C Sharps if you have their standard length throats. So what you are seeing is more or less normal for the bullet weights your talking about. Just as an example .....the difference may be something like a charge of 60 grs BP with the regular cast just barely into the lands as opposed to something like 70 grs BP with the PP seated out and riding or engraving into the lands by some larger amount. If I wanted greater velocity than the 45-70 BP load was giving..... my preference would be to get a 45-90.... and so on instead of re-designing the whole process to cram more powder into the 45-70. But that's just me... some do develop successful, accurate loads that allow more powder capacity in a given cartridge with a given bullet.

[powderburnerr]

matt my paper patch bullets are under bore size , soft, and bump up when swatted with a case of black thats how I get the case full , I seat 2 tenths in the case.( wrapped to 447,8)
in my shiloh 45-70 I can seat my bullet out one grease groove and have it just touch ,I just compress the black to what ever depth I need to get that length and the powder volume I want
are you bumping up the nose of the bullet while seating ?.
are you using the bullet to compress the powder ?

the other thing a lot of folks do is have the front band reduced , this allows a further out seating. . you might try and size the front band in a lee sizing die or something like that if yyou want to seat the bullet out further........Dean

[Don McDowell]

Matt most folks shooting paper patch , patch the slug to bore size. So all a person really needs to do is get enough of the bullet into the case to hold it straight in line with the bore. That's how they get away with only seating so little in the case. It does allow for more powder and a longer col than with grease groove bullets.

[Jon K]

Matt,

Everything what Dean said, and for grease goove boolits - each will seat at different lengths according to nose design & size. So........if all the GG are covered when it touches, then that's your oal.

Jon

[montana_charlie]

the other thing a lot of folks do is have the front band reduced , this allows a further out seating. .
Matt,
Here is an example of that.
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_101_283&products_id=8051

This mould, sold by Dixie Gun Works, has two reduced-diameter bands which fit up into the bore. The third band (or first large band) fits against the lands like your current bullet does.

Rick Kalynuik is very fond of this bullet in his 45/70 RB.
CM

[Matt Muir]

Thanks all, you answered all my questions!

[John Boy]

Charlie, do you have contact information for Rick Kalynuik? I tried to make the Dixie RL6307 (Lyman 457661) fly but success was not that great. Here's the starting recipe that I used for the bullet - used the 1st GG as a scraper:

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/Meadowmucker/Misc/Lyman457661-Test1.jpg

Successive reloads were 68gr FFg with LDPE or fiber wad, no crimp or light crimp. Groups opened up to 15" at 300yds ... so I gave up

[montana_charlie]

Charlie, do you have contact information for Rick Kalynuik?
Sure thing, John. He posts on this site as Red River Rick...and makes those 'Canadian mould handles' that so many hunger for.
CM

[John Boy]

Charlie, thanks kindly. I'll send Rick a mail.