Trophies

[richhodg66]

Last hunting season, seems we had one or two guys on here who criticized some posters for the kinds of deer they shot. Thankfully, those guys got chastised good very quickly. I'm of the opinion that what you take is your business as long as it's legal and in fair chase and what my standards are or aren't shouldn't have any influence on anyone else's.

Anyway, got this on facebook and thought it was relevant.

132191

[clintsfolly]

Great post and to the point! Clint

[CastingFool]

I have always said they are all trophies in one way or another. The circumstances when the deer was taken usually add a very meaningful factor to the experience, not necessarily to the hearer of the tale, but definitely to the shooter. Better a bird in the hand than two in the bush.

[rush1886]

In many ways, the smart thing to do is to take the older animals, with an eye to conservation. It does seem, however, that life in this country has devolved into one gynormas competition.

I've had seasons where I was absolutely ecstatic to harvest a doe or a spike buck. And, hopefully will do so again. I've been fortunate to live my life in competition with one person-me.

It's sad to see what is necessary, for some folks these days, to feel good. castingfool is spot on--every harvest is a trophy harvest.

[Powder Burn]

Met Ted Nugent once at small gathering in my home town and he was asked what he considered a 'trophy'. He said "any deer quartering away at 15 yds." Sort of sums it up for me too.

[shredder]

Yup. Any deer with a bow is memorable. Those that come with unforgettable circumstances are the trophys.

[nagantguy]

My definition of a trophy; any deer that I can out whit and keepin range long enough to fill the freezer; three deer of average size get us through the year along with the pig we split with the neighbors. There have been years where my families only meat was game! No joke no exaggeration. I let a small buck walk this year cause I'd already taken 2 deer and my daughter was to hunt the stand in the am. Meat on the table as provided by Whits and marksmanship= trophy.

[Thumbcocker]

THE TROPHY




We sat quietly against a red oak tree. We had moved theleaves away from the base of the tree so we wouldn’t make noise. It wasstarting to get light you could just tell that the girl’s hat and vest werehunter orange.

The turkeys began to fly down from the white oak they wereroosting in and the girl smiled and mouthed the words “noisy turkeys” to me. Wespent the next half hour listening to the turkeys argue about who was going tojoin up with who as the light increased. A few turkeys passed by and stopped tostare at us before starting their day.

This was the first time the girl had come with me duringfirearm deer season but she was comfortable in the woods. She had ridden in abackpack carrier when she was a toddler, gone on mushroom hunting expeditionsfor several Aprils, and gone hiking and “woods tromping” with me andMommy. At age 5 the girl had asked to goalong on squirrel hunts. The hunts were kept short and 2 squirrels was a bigday for us. When Mommy came with us the girl summed up hunting for her “ Youhave to be quiet and not step on sticks”. Mommy had been suitablyimpressed.

A few extra provisions had been brought along on this hunt:a cammo army blanket, toaster pastries, and a relaxation of the intensity of myhunting.

This morning we had left Mommy on a ridge a few hundredyards away where close growing trees formed a natural ground blind. The girland I had gone down to the point of a ridge overlooking a deep draw with a deertrail running through it. The large red oak gave us a good backrest and was acomfort when the shooting started in the woods nearby.

The first two deer surprised us with their footsteps comingtoo close to the noise of the turkeys. Aloud snort startled us and we saw two does about 80 yard away. I grunted tothem and they stopped in the thick brush on the next ridge. The scope showed asoftball-sized hole through the brush with one doe quartering toward. I knewthat the slug would fly straight to the hole but it was a marginal shot andthere might be some twigs that were not visible. No amount of persuasivegrunting could entice the does from the thick stuff and I let them pass. Thegirl asked why I had not shot and I explained to her that there was no goodshot. She nodded.

A few minutes later we saw 3 deer at the mouth of the draw.They went up the side instead of coming down our trail. A whispered conferencewas held and the decision was made to move to the mouth of the draw whereanother trail ran east and west. We sat up on the side of the draw without muchnoise, the girl was careful about sticks and the pace took into account thedifference in the length of our legs. The girl lay back on the blanket and myfanny pack for a few minutes rest; she had been up since 4:30 a.m. and wasstarting to droop a little.

After her not quite nap the girl opened her eyes andwhispered; “ This is the life Daddy”. I had to agree; the weather was good andthe company was better. We had promised Mommy that we would turn the cell phoneon at 9:30 to check in and compare notes. I turned the phone on and it beepedright on time. As I answered three deer moved down the trail. I whispered“DEER” and dropped the phone. The girl picked up the phone and identifiedherself by name, just in case Mommy had forgotten who was hunting with me.

The three deer, a doeand her two offspring moved down the trail. A few grunts stopped one of thedeer in a small clearing where a shot might work. Using a sapling as a rest Isighted through the scope and got a clear view of the deer’s shoulder. Athumb-sized sprout was about 10 feet out but the slug should slip past it. Isqueezed off the shot and saw a neat half circle disappear from the sprout anda clean miss resulted.

The deer could not locate the source of the shot and stayedput. By bending the sapling I was resting the slug gun against at a 45-degreeangle, I managed to get a clear view of the deer’s shoulder and squeeze offanother shot. I had forgotten about sighting in 2 inches high at 50 yards andheld on the point of the shoulder. At 70 yards the slug landed exactly on thecross hairs and severed the deer’s spine dropping him in his tracks. The girlshouted, “We caught a deer!” into the phone and passed it over to me. Wepromised to call Mommy with more information.

Before walking down to the deer I told the girl that hemight not be dead and we might have to shoot him again. As we approached thedeer shivered and the girl stated, “He’s almost dead.” The life went out of thebutton buck’s eyes as we stood there. The girl was ecstatic, hopping up anddown with joy. I was reflecting on the hunt and all the other things that cometo hunters when a life is taken. The girl was more pragmatic saying, “Don’t besad Daddy, that’s deer meat we can have chili.” We put our middle layer ofcoats over the little buck to keep the coyotes away and went to find Mommy.

When we returned we put an acorn in the deer’s mouth andthanked him for giving his life to us. The girl petted the deer and lookedthoughtful. We field dressed the deer and with the girl carrying most of mygear, Mommy and I dragged and carried him to the truck.

The check station was staffed by two college girls. The girltold them that we had caught a deer. The orange plastic tag was attached to hisleg and the girl had the pin put on her coat. I asked the checkers if theyneeded to look at his teeth and they said, “No, he’s this year’s deer.” Theysmiled, just a little smugly. For college students they have much to learn.They didn’t even recognize a trophy when they saw one.

[Beerd]

Thumb,
any more where that came from?
..

[Smoke4320]

Great story Thumbcocker ..
Thanks for sharing

[quilbilly]

Much like steelhead. There is no such thing as a small steelhead. Every steelhead is a trophy even after you have caught hundreds.

[rking22]

Awesome post Thumbcocker,, most awesome!

[smoked turkey]

Thumbcocker What you have posted is what it should be about. Unfortunately much has turned into economics for those who raise the deer and those who seemly will pay a very high price to "hunt" these farm raised deer over bait stations from a nice comfortable blind conveniently set up within range of the trophies. Your story is an inspiration to all of us. It should be posted in one of the national hunting magazines. But alas it probably wouldn't set too good with their advertisers. Nice job and very nice write up.

[44man]

I want a doe. Hate buck meat and give it away. A mature doe is harder to get a shot at then any buck. Might be harder to find a buck with huge antlers but I never found a way to cook them.
My best eating is a yearling. I hunt meat.
I have a total disregard for trophy hunters. More meat is tossed from big bucks then I care to say.

[blikseme300]

I want a doe. Hate buck meat and give it away. A mature doe is harder to get a shot at then any buck. Might be harder to find a buck with huge antlers but I never found a way to cook them.
My best eating is a yearling. I hunt meat.
I have a total disregard for trophy hunters. More meat is tossed from big bucks then I care to say.

I was born and raised in South Africa and we never could understand the fascination with throphy hunting as we only hunted for eating.The ethical hunter, in my not so humble opinion, only shoots what he or others will eat. Horns and skin we considered a by-product that may or not have any resale value. For me the memories of a good hunt far exceeds the value of a mount on the wall.

[BruceB]

In every North American jurisdiction of which I am aware, it's a CRIMINAL OFFENSE to allow game meat to spoil.

This simple fact removes the greatest objection of most anti-hunting nuts who wail about trophy hunters "wasting" the game they kill. Anyone who does allow game to spoil is a CRIMINAL, and also an unethical slob.

As for "he memories of a good hunt".... a trophy on the wall not only keeps alive "memories of a good hunt", but perpetuates the existence of THAT individual animal, far beyond the end of his natural lifespan. The memories are surely important,and the trophy, to many of us, is very important as well.

I'd say that most trophy animals are killed within a very short time from when they would have died "naturally"... and there are no easy deaths in the wild.

Dying "naturally" means death by disease, predation, accident or starvation. Animals do not lie down peacefully in some leafy, sunny glade and go quietly to sleep.

[dragon813gt]

"Death by violence, death by cold, death by starvation – they are the normal endings of the stately creatures of the wilderness. The sentimentalists who prattle about the peaceful life of nature do not realize its utter mercilessness." – Theodore Roosevelt in his safari diary.

I hunt for meat. I don't care about antlers other than for legal reasons. I don't care about the age of the animal. A young doe is the best meat you can eat.

I don't look down on trophy hunters. They pay for their tags like everyone else. This money goes to manage everything just like mine does. If they want to pass up a doe that's one more for me to shoot.

I don't have time for anyone that wastes meat. I don't know of anyone around here that does this. They will give the meat away if they don't eat it. While I don't understand the desire to hunt for antlers as long as they follow the regulations I have no problem w/ it.

[badge176]

Until somebody gives me a great recipe for Antler Soup, I could care less which sex or how big I take. Having said that, I wonder if I could cook the antler in my Pressure Canner to soften it before I try chewing on it?!?!

[richhodg66]

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to shoot a big antlered buck as much as the next guy, but I won't give somebody a bunch of grief for shooting something less than a Boone and Crocket buck the way some guys do. I have a few reasonably nice sets of antlers on the wall, but the oder I get, the more I like eating them better than looking at antlers on the wall.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

Trophiesthis was the Biggest Deer shot in Illinois in 2014 by my Son 132364
that was the best deer hunt of my life

[Thumbcocker]

I wrote the story in 2002. My daughter was 10. Every word of it is true. It means a lot that some of you enjoyed it. That was one of the best days I ever lived. I was far from a perfect parent but I like to think that I at least made a decent run at it.

[RugerFan]

I want a doe. Hate buck meat and give it away. A mature doe is harder to get a shot at then any buck. Might be harder to find a buck with huge antlers but I never found a way to cook them.
My best eating is a yearling. I hunt meat.
I have a total disregard for trophy hunters. More meat is tossed from big bucks then I care to say.

Really? I have taken plenty of bucks including some nice mature deer. I have never had an issue with the flavor and eat it all. The older bucks may be a bit tougher, but they taste fine to me.

[richhodg66]

Really? I have taken plenty of bucks including some nice mature deer. I have never had an issue with the flavor and eat it all. The older bucks may be a bit tougher, but they taste fine to me.

I've personally not been able to tell much difference either, however, I have noticed ones I shoot in our early muzzle loader season (September) taste better than ones shot in our regular firearms season in December after the rut. Most of my venison gets consumed in stew, chili, spaghetti, meat loaf, etc with some chicken fried steaks and Swiss steaks now and then. Maybe if I were grilling it I could see a difference.

10-15 years ago, I could kind of take it or leave it, now, I much prefer venison to any store bought meat.

[berksglh]

My first deer with a bow was a nub buck. A friend had given me an OLD compound bow and got me interested in hunting. I had no stand, and staked out a good natural spot in a tree by a heavily beat down dear path and climbed up the tree and sat on the limb. It was my first bow hunt. I was so excited to get a big buck.

After sitting and getting a sore back and waiting for hours motionless, along came the deer.

It had no antlers, but I didn't care, it was my first bow deer, and of all my hunts, its the one I remember the most.

That deer was also the best steaks I've ever cooked.

I have one good rack on the wall now, and Ill take young venison over old any day. The young ones around here are the ones that cause the most car accidents.

[Edward]

I never saw a deer wasted and would not tolerate any one doing so ,sounds like one of those urban stories you hear about ,like bucks not being tasty !They can be run down after the rut /no fat ect but if meat is handled correctly ,Cleaned/cooled /hung and wrapped there is no such thing as bad tasting deer unless you hunt with a truck,road kill .By the way that father/daughter hunt was outstanding(reminds me of me and my two daughters.

[44man]

Really? I have taken plenty of bucks including some nice mature deer. I have never had an issue with the flavor and eat it all. The older bucks may be a bit tougher, but they taste fine to me.
I hate wild taste and would not eat old goat meat or sheep. I will eat lamb chops but it ends there.
I killed many large Ohio bucks and had to buy a pressure cooker but still could not cut or chew. Then the stink in my nose turned me off. had a friend where his wife was from Lebanon. Made stew and gave me some. I almost gagged. A black put goat meat in the microwave at work and stunk the place so bad all left the lunch room.
Some love it but not me!
Had a problem in PA archery hunting. Shoot a doe and it was great, go back and shoot another at the same place, same size doe and could not stomach the thing. Age or food they eat?
Ever eat a fish eating duck?
I do not mind tough but stink is garbage. Ever eat a coot? They are great, eats duck weed and are better then a mallard that eats fish.
I want a button buck or young doe every time.
We love pork but had old boar meat that is nasty.

[oldarkie]

My idea of a trophy was taking my 12 year old grandson on a youth hunt here in mo. and watching him tag his first deer, a nice 3 pt. I've killed a lot of deer in my life, some real nice bucks, but watching your kids or grandkids get there first is the real trophy.

[TXGunNut]

My brother is a trophy hunter on a lease with other trophy hunters. He'll pass on decent deer for weeks and will often come home empty-handed rather than shoot one of the several deer he saw that weekend. He's allowed one "trophy" per year, this past year was his first "trophy". That works out great for me, I get to make a trip or two down there each year to take a doe, management buck and or hogs to fill my freezer. They'd let me shoot a "trophy" if I wanted but I'm just happy for the opportunity to hunt and bring home some good meat. Shooting management deer has resulted in some very good trophy bucks on this lease, especially these last few years. Guests like me that shoot the "lesser" bucks are an integral part of the management plan. The trophy hunters get what they want, I get what I want. A good time is had by all....and sometimes they let me cook!

[recondoc01]

For me, the "Trophy" is a combination of the memories that I carry away from a hunt and the meat. I am a predator and carnivore. Everything I kill goes to feeding my family the absolute best protein that I can. I am one of the only two hunters on the property that I hunt with open permission to take a "Big Buck" if I want. Maybe I will one day but managing to get to bow range on 3 Does this year is plenty of trophy for me.

[Nicholas]

My first deer was taken in a Land of Lakes draw hunt ages ago. The previous weekend I scouted a likely spot about a mile from the road. found my way to it opening day in the moonless dark with a topo map and flashlight. About mid-morning I shot a running doe with my iron-sighted 30-30, the only deer I ever shot moving. It piled up, I field dressed it and then realized that I had to drag the deer a mile down a power line right of way to get back to the road. It was 70 degrees and it was hot, sweaty work. At the check station, the deer weighed 106 field dressed and was determined to be 6 years old. Oh-Oh! Drove home, hung it in a tree in the back yard and proceeded to process it. Had a recommended procedure from the game office. After skinning, I split the carcass down the backbone and ultimately cut up bone-in loin chops with the fat untrimmed. They were fabulous, tender and succulent. Only later did I learn to remove all fat from the deer. I hunt now where deer have woodland and field crops. Yes, the old bucks are tougher, and does are prized for eating, but all are good to eat with the right treatment. My wife and I are retired, and we do not buy beef at the grocery any more. Vacuum packing keeps the meat easily through the year. Venison is a great red meat.

My Wife got her first deer, an old and big buck taken season before last, and that tough old monster has to be the best trophy for both of us so far. That first doe taken during a serious penny-pinching time in our early family life would be a very close second.

[44man]

Deer fat is bad, Pork fat and beef fat is flavor, so is black bear fat.
Take deer fat and give to your birds, better if rendered. Put out a huge chunk to keep them healthy.

[sixshot]

I hunt because I love it, I'm out there for me not for someone else so I set my own rules. If its legal and I'm hunting I shoot it. Sometimes its big & sometimes its not but I do it my way everytime & I could care less what someone else says or how they do it. The one & only time I've ever held out for something big was my once in a lifetime Idaho moose. I hunted 27 days, saw 37 moose & ended up shooting one of the smallest bulls I'd seen because I finally ran out of time. Twice I passed ona huge bull, probably 46-47 inches, thats big for a Shiras moose! My wife was with me the first time & her & one of my sons' were with me the second time I spotted him. We filmed him for 20 minutes but I passed because he was still in velvet & I wanted a hard horned bull. I used my Ruger SBH 480 & a 370 gr. softnose cast slug, 45 yds. offhand, & yes he was small but he was a trophy.

Dick

[Nicholas]

The deer trophy of the day is a big chunk of boneless venison ham, fat and silver skin removed, simmering in our crock pot with whole potatoes, carrots, and a big ole onion. By this evening, the meat will be tender and juicy without any fat added. There will be leftovers for barbeque later in the week.

[dave roelle]

This is a "Trophy" ---------------------------for both of us :)

http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/drroelle/DSCN0809.jpg (http://s1195.photobucket.com/user/drroelle/media/DSCN0809.jpg.html)

[sixshot]

Dave, thats a fine trophy! Ruger #1B, Leupold scope with a sun shade & no sling. Tells me your son was probably in an elevated blind of some sort & that big old Texas grin says it all, great job!

Dick

[runfiverun]

good shot too, probably didn't go far.

[dave roelle]

Gentlemen:

Caleb is my oldest grandson------he has practiced quite a bit with "his" rifle :)

The blind is a two man affair we built together------it was a fun project for sure.

He put a nosler out of the 22-250 through the center of the heart as he planned-----it was indeed a Trophy Hunt for Us

The memories are the real trophy's----those things we hang on the wall are just memory joggers :)

Stay safe

Dave

[richhodg66]

This is a "Trophy" ---------------------------for both of us :)

http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/drroelle/DSCN0809.jpg (http://s1195.photobucket.com/user/drroelle/media/DSCN0809.jpg.html)

That's a nice deer! I wouldn't have hesitated to shoot him.

I seem to have the itch to get a Ruger #1 lately.

[dave roelle]

Caleb sure thought it was a nice one :)---------on this ranch its a management buck but that does not diminish the "Trophy Factor"

The rack is drying, soon he'll have his "first deer" memory jogger on the wall-------------BTW we will be grinding sausage and burger soon------:)

Dave

[44man]

Deer seem to be different where you live and not all bucks are bad. I shot a big 8 point last season and the meat is good. Once in Ohio I was in the checking station when a huge 8 point was brought in. It was hung on a scale, weight 255# and the biologist aged him. He asked us how old we thought he was. Much guessing but he told us the buck was 18 months old.
My worst that I could not eat was over 8 years old.
I have not had a bad tasting deer here near Harpers Ferry, WV but have had a few tougher then others.
My worst tasting now and then were from the PA forests, archery doe, no matter how old they got, they never got larger.
I have shot 3 doe well over 200#, 2 here and 1 in Ohio and they were great. Size does not seem to matter as much as age. Diet sure must not help either. Ours here are always full of corn.

[Dthunter]

I spent more than 20 years hunting hard for the fabled Boone and Crockett animals! it was exhausting to say the least! But I don't feel that the time wasted at all! I wound up shooting a few smaller deer and moose, and really enjoyed eating them!

One year, back in 2002,I had a break through in my version of "trophy hunting". I finally spotted a massive whitetail buck, that I was to pursue for 4 straight weeks! I turned down work and everything to get that big old boy! on the last day of the season, I finally got him!

I cannot possibly describe the feeling of accomplishment at that moment! The honour, reverence, respect I felt when I approached the downed buck! I had a lump in my throat for a good long moment!

The hours, days, and years of hunting, walking, dreaming, planning and hoping, praying for success in my goal all flowed out of me that moment!
not a single person on this planet can ever take that life time victory from me!

That buck tasted some sweet! With jerky, sausage, and steaks with my friends and family, I am proud to be a hunter first and a goal oriented trophy hunter second!

It isn't the size that was the biggest victory, it was the pursuit! A trophy is different in everyone's eyes, and no less valuable.

I have been blessed with a few more record class animals since that time in Archery (recurve and compound), and black powder(traditional and modern in-line). Be proud to be the hunter you are, and do not allow anyone to dictate you're personal worth by their standards! That is more often than not, jealousy!

http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a629/darcytyndall1/image_zps3e33fa03.jpg (http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/darcytyndall1/media/image_zps3e33fa03.jpg.html)

http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a629/darcytyndall1/image_zps863a2917.jpg (http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/darcytyndall1/media/image_zps863a2917.jpg.html)

hope you like the pictures! Again, I would like to point out that my deer is a personal trophy no different than any other shown on this thread.

[Spruce]

A very nice buck and a trophy for sure. Some people put in the time, some don't. Your time and persistance paid off. Congrats.

[44man]

I did the same in Ohio but with a week to hunt only, after the time was almost up I would go where the doe were and get one.
If I had a rifle or revolver at the time I could have some real racks but a recurve needed a lot more time. Some days I would see the buck just out of range many times, My record was 5 times in one day. I would watch him walk a trail over and over, set up on it and he would be on the next trail over.

[vmathias]

I want a doe. Hate buck meat and give it away. A mature doe is harder to get a shot at then any buck. Might be harder to find a buck with huge antlers but I never found a way to cook them.
My best eating is a yearling. I hunt meat.
I have a total disregard for trophy hunters. More meat is tossed from big bucks then I care to say.

Though I like both Buck and doe meat. Doe is definitely more tender. You are absolutely correct with the statement that Mature doe are harder to hunt. The are very skittish and extremely hard to get close.

[groovy mike]

Good stuff in this thread I especially enjoyed the first post and the first story. Great stuff. Where I hunt, you can be out for days and not see a single deer. I have had years without an opportunity to fill a tag. A few years like that makes you realize that every single animal that God gives you is a trophy to be thankful for and proud of.

[Swede44mag]

I am a meat hunter so I don't hunt for antlers. I have shot many deer over the years but the shots I most enjoy is when my father takes a nice doe or buck with his Knight MK85 50 caliber BP rifle. The last deer he took with it was lasered at 118 yards the doe didn't make a single step but dropped straight down with a spine shot that was a couple of years ago. My father is over 80 and still loves to hunt I enjoy the time we have together.
So any deer he takes is a trophy to me.

[44man]

I am a meat hunter so I don't hunt for antlers. I have shot many deer over the years but the shots I most enjoy is when my father takes a nice doe or buck with his Knight MK85 50 caliber BP rifle. The last deer he took with it was lasered at 118 yards the doe didn't make a single step but dropped straight down with a spine shot that was a couple of years ago. My father is over 80 and still loves to hunt I enjoy the time we have together.
So any deer he takes is a trophy to me.
You and me would get along just great! I hope your dad lives a good long time and can keep going with you.
I get flack from the wife over a button buck but if I shoot a big buck she asks why did I shoot that? Can't please a woman at all. But she dearly loves tender meat too.

[Dthunter]

Though I like both Buck and doe meat. Doe is definitely more tender. You are absolutely correct with the statement that Mature doe are harder to hunt. The are very skittish and extremely hard to get close.

No offense what so ever, but The only thing in these statements that I and millions of other experienced hunters disagree with, is that the mature bucks are harder to hunt. And I think we "ALL" know that.

The whitetail doe can be very high strung and hard to get close to at times, but hunters who have spent significant amounts of time afield know that some individual animals will pose unique challenges. Sometimes that will be a doe. But seldom so by percentages. Again, no offense or disrespect intended.

[44man]

No offense what so ever, but The only thing in these statements that I and millions of other experienced hunters disagree with, is that the mature bucks are harder to hunt. And I think we "ALL" know that.

The whitetail doe can be very high strung and hard to get close to at times, but hunters who have spent significant amounts of time afield know that some individual animals will pose unique challenges. Sometimes that will be a doe. But seldom so by percentages. Again, no offense or disrespect intended.
That is correct, a mature buck is VERY hard to get. The main reason is the distance he will cover for in heat doe. He is NOT at the scrape you sit over or the rubs. Up in northern Ohio a bucks travels could be 17 square miles or more. It could be a month before he comes around to your stand.
However when I did have one close, I could do things you will not get away with for a doe. The only other thing is they don't piddle around, they walk through so timing is important.
I feel the more doe there are in an area, the closer the bucks stay to their home range. They were not born there, doe will boot a buck of hers out of the area so outside bucks move in for breeding. Natural things to prevent inbreeding.