Some good advice to newbies

[Blackwater]

Folks, we live in a new world, and one vastly different than the one I grew up in. Values, attitudes and social expectations have changed, and changed drastically. No joke. You'd really have to have experienced the changes over the years to realize how greatly these things have changed, so unless you're an ol' fart like me, don't bother trying to explain how wrong I am. I'm not. Things HAVE changed, and in some ways, they've changed in ways that us old farts find rather off-putting, and the fact that they happen so frequently makes them .... well, rather unpleasant.

We live today in a world where we EXPECT instant results, and not only that, we expect these instant results to come with little effort or thought of our own. We expect the experienced to put half a century's worth (and more) into a brief 3 line reply, and then think we're doing what the very experienced do. T'ain't necessarily so. Casting isn't rocket science, but it calls for some rationality, and mainly the simple ability to focus and see what's going on before our eyes - simple perception. When we focus on simply following "rules" given us by folks we've never met and don't know their history, we're asking more than we should EVER expect to receive, really.

The "secret" to casting is simply DEVELOPING the ability to observe and perceive what's going on as it affects the casting process. Therefore, if you want to LEARN how to cast, just start paying attention as you go, and LEARN what happens as you go along. Correct and refine your process and technique as you go, and THEN, brothers and sisters, you're really starting to LEARN to cast, and you're teaching YOUR OWN SELF. Learning THAT way is something that'll STICK with you through whatever you encounter, and allow you to solve your own problems. No, there's no substitute for being able to ask questions, but it really puts us more experienced types out when you ask questions that sometimes can seem rather beyond elementary.

So, in an effort to help you new casters come along and become really good casters as quickly as possible, I hope you won't mind my making some suggestions.

First, go back to the archives here and READ about the various phases of casting. You'll find no better or quicker or easier tutorials than you'll find here. Yes, it'll take some of your precious time, but how can you expect good results WITHOUT taking some time to learn such a thing as casting???? The only correct answer is, "You can't." It IS going to take some of your time, but it'll be time VERY well spent, and will be so fruitful that I wish I'd had something like this resource when I first started. It would have made things easier, and I'd have been a significantly better caster than was the case with me having to teach myself, as I largely had to do back then. Most of us here started somewhat similarly, and have EARNED all the stuff we've learned. That's why there's such a wealth of info here. We learned by doing, and by observing and analyzing and working things out, often by trial and error (and not a little error at times!). So, if you want to become an "instant caster," and don't want to spend the time and take the effort to focus and observe, you're never likely going to make much of a caster. I hate to break that news to you, but that's simply how it is, and if you can't tell that from some of the answers you're getting, then you're not paying much attention there, either. Only you can correct that. None of the rest of us can do that one FOR you. There is great satisfaction and profit in being able to cast really good bullets - usually better than you can buy - but if you want to "purchase" it with a politically correct "lap dog" type of mentality and put very little of your own into the effort, I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed and possibly wind up hurting yourself one day, or maybe even someone else. That ain't good. There ARE some minimal dangers involved in casting, but any decently intelligent man should be able to handle them. There IS no progress without SOME sort of danger. That's just life itself, and can't be averted in casting or
many other endeavors.

Secondly, get as many loading manuals as you can accumulate as quickly as you can and READ every single line in them, including the publishing info. THIS is reading for UNDERSTANDING, not just skim-reading just to be able to SAY you've "read" them. You need more than one manual for many reasons. We now have about 200 different powders available to load with our cast bullets. NO manual can include them all, and few cover as many as 40, so ..... ipso facto, yer gonna' need as many as you can get. Data DOES vary within them, yes. When that happens, the wise reloader tries to find out why, and the best starting place is to compare notes on just what bullet is being tested. Is it hard or relatively soft? Does it have a long section in front of the case mouth so that it engages the resistance of the throat more quickly than another? Peak pressures (the ones quoted in manuals) ONLY achieve that level just in front of the chamber, and drop off as the powder gasses expand and push the bullet down the barrel. LEARN about this. It'll explain some stuff you'll see later on. People who buy manuals and never look at anything but the data are really missing great opportunities to learn the PROCESSES that control making and loading and shooting our beloved cast bullets, and there is NO SUBSTITUTE for coming to UNDERSTAND the processes that control these matters, and make them work. If you don't understand, at least at a layman's level, these processes, you're MUCH more likely to try something that you shouldn't. Only when you understand the processes and HOW they work, can you make decent decisions about what to try and what not to try. When in doubt, there's many who've gone before you here who can and are readily willing to help. When you ask questions without having done ANY of your homework, we who've "paid the price" get a little less likely to contribute or explain. That's just the way these things work, and always have.

Complete newbies are tolerated well, because we were all one of those ourselves, once. I don't know if any of you newbies have noticed, but there's usually a recommendation by the more experienced and knowledgeable here to go read the archives and do some studying before asking too many questions. They give most excellent advice, and it's not laziness or elitism that's motivating them, either. It's simple good will in wanting you to progress as far and as fast as you're able to go. Very simple, and there's no way to do that without some study. Then, once you "understand" what you've read, start putting it to use, and THAT is where your ability to observe and analyze comes into play. I can tell when a newbie is really learning by his posts. He'll note an observation, and THEN state, often (but not always) with a citing of some principle in the archives or other tutorials about what he THINKS is happening or has happened, and ask for verification/affirmation or other advice and comment. Now THAT is the type of newbie it's always a pleasure to help along! We old timers LOVE to help those kind because, again, we were once where he is ourselves. How could it be any different???

Anyway, I don't think anybody here minds sharing data, etc. for any newbie, and we certainly don't want to run anyone off, but ..... well, we DO kinda' expect the newbies to put forth SOME reasonable amount of effort on their own behalves. Nobody likes doing stuff for others that they won't do for themselves. Is that so much of a mystery???

You'll not find a more knowledgeable and willing to help group than you'll find here, but sometimes, you really need to put forth some effort on your own behalf if you want to get the best from this board. It's simple: If you DON'T, there's really not much of a way to help you if you can't or won't help yourself to a large degree. Quesitons and verification/affirmation questions are always handled very well and gladly, but nearly complete tutorials shouldn't be expected until and unless you've done your part in examining closely that which is already available to you.

We're a good humored group, but even good humor can be taxed too far. This post is intended to help you get the best from the tremendoous knowledge and expertise available here. Any other reading in of intentions or emotions is INCORRECT, so take it in the spirit it's given, and you'll profit greatly, I think. Read, think, do, analyze and conclude. That's the only way any new endeavor is learned. Put it into practice. Simple things like noting how freely the lead flows as it heats up can be important in learning to control the temp of your casting pot - an essential for getting consistency in your bullets. "Melted" isn't just "melted." It's melted AT A CERTAIN TEMP, and the temp range can and will vary unless you learn to control it, and you're not going to learn to control it until you learn to observe the indicatiors that tell you these things. Just one example of many that it takes to become a really good caster, so please take my words as ones of well-meaning advice, and NOT as any sort of put-downs of being a newbie. After all, we were ALL newbies once, and we had to go through all the trials of a newbie today. We just din't have a resource like this available back then. So don't abuse it too much. It won't serve you very well, and doesn't add anything good to the board. Just a FWIW.

[pworley1]

Good post. I hope it is used.

[shootinfox2]

Not just casting, but life in general. Good post Blackwater. Look forward to shooting with you again.

Fox

[osteodoc08]

I'm still a relatively young buck but appreciate sage advice. I'm what my wife calls an "old soul" and enjoy my "me time" including listening to classic rock, casting, relaoding and shooting with a select group of close friends and family.

This is a nice addition to the "why some people will do well here" thread that I've forgotten where it is stickied at.

[MtGun44]

Well said, sir.

[NC_JEFF]

I'm a new caster, so new I still haven't cast my first boolits yet. I have most of what need except one thing.......Ive not read enough yet. I've reloaded and handloaded for decades with lead and as soon as I am satisfied that i have a well rounded knowledge of what I'm doing, I will heat my first wheel weights and give it a try. I'm not nervous about it but do have a tremendous respect for the entire casting process and just want to "know" what I'm doing before I actually start learning. Excellent thread.

JD

[Old Scribe]

Very good advise for most things in life. Time spent doing things well is time well spent.

[slim1836]

Don't forget to read up on the "Tinsel Fairy".

Safety is key No.1.

Slim

[Sticky]

It IS good advice. I have long been a self-learner. I quest for knowledge, love to do things myself, probably have learned more than many about tons of different things over my lifetime by just 'wanting to learn' and doing it.

This particular forum is a godsend to those like me that are new to casting and don't have a close mentor to tutor us along the way in person, so... we do the next best thing. Gather as many resources as we can and start to study. Study until we think (emphasis on think, cause it's just a starting point) we have some semblance of an idea of what to do. Then we experiment.. and learn.. and find that we either got it right, or have a lot more to learn.

This can span many different things in life, some simple, easily learned and practiced with perfection and little effort. Some not so simple, could be very complex and we spend most of our life still learning.. and refining, and improving in that particular facet of life.

Casting and reloading, I consider to be one of the latter. I have loaded for many years, but never cast. It will take me some time to feel comfortable, more time to become consistent and even longer yet to become proficient (in my eyes).

FWIW, I have been reading, rereading, covered hundreds and hundreds of threads here, read thousands of posts, links to elsewhere, read and reread some of the writings of others that I see referenced here as 'authorities' on the subject by the more experienced.

Have I even scratched the surface? NO! Will I continue to read, study, learn and also at the same time practice? YES! Because I want to learn. I seek the knowledge and will, over time, develop it into a skill that will serve me well for years to come, as I have many other things in life. I am not afraid to jump in, as I have also learned, that for me, I need to also experience it, touch it, feel it, fail, succeed and adapt and move on from there. It's how I work. Sometimes this works well, sometimes I fall flat on my face and wonder what the heck I was thinking or doing. Time to regroup and figure out where I went wrong.

Experience has been a great teacher for me over the years. I am not afraid in the least to jump into a totally foreign environment and seek out the resources, glean the most I can from them and then do it. First time around may be rough, but the second, third and subsequent tries will only improve if I keep an open mind, approach it analytically and honestly and apply basic logic along the way.

I have learned a lot, but barely even begun to scratch the surface in the past couple of months that I have been starting to learn the casting process. This site has been an invaluable asset to me and I appreciate all that the members share here, be them newbies with seemingly silly questions (many of which apply directly to me and my learning curve as well!), or long-time casters with years and years of experience and a very refined and successful process. All of the guidance has helped me to overcome many of the unknowns and approach the processes with much more knowledge than I could have ever imagined if it weren't for the wonders of modern communications and resources such as the internet and this forum.

If I come off as asking dumb questions, or being a goob, please tell me! (I will adjust.. lol) It is just all part of my 'learning curve' and sometimes we stray from the proper path, or fail to stop and think for a minute about how best to find an answer. Yes, asking is easy, but doesn't always work with the same results as researching the answer using as much of the resource as is available to ones self.

I can't tell you how many times in my life I have learned things that I would not have learned had it not been for the search to an answer and the resultant journey that ensues. The path to knowledge has many twists and turns and if you take the time to smell the roses along the way and put in the time to fully explore the path, you will gain a wealth of knowledge beyond what you ever expected.

That is my personal philosophy and how I approach most things in life. Thanks to you all for creating and maintaining a resource as you have here on CB. It truly is a most valuable resource for me and others like me!

[shredder]

Agreed great post. Help is there for those who will work towards their own success. I have never been one to carry someone across the finish line so they can say they ran the race.

[nagantguy]

Well said sir, yes things have changed, some want more for less or nothing at all. The science and safety practices of casting/reloading haven't changed! I'm sure so.e of you have seen my posts to newbies; always welcoming and first piece of advice; get a notebook as there is centuries of knowledge here, read the archives and stickies and use the search function. This site took me out of the dark.ages of my casting knowledge; about ten years of reading what little I could find and experiments got me some good looking boolit most of the time; my skill and knowledge of casting has increased 10 fold since coming here and I still learn something new about everyday! And I won't hesitate to share the things I was so freely given once someone shows an interest, is willing to do the work and observes basic safety protocols.

[Char-Gar]

First rate counsel..excellent post..well said..and..Amen

[Blackwater]

Wow! I came back here today expecting some slings and arrows. I note few newbies posting here, so maybe they're thinking about it? Or stewing a bit? I don't know. In our "PC" world today, it's very unfashionable to point out things that the learner doesn't really want to hear, but if the post has any effect, I just hope it's to get them to think, and to consider and learn to observe and actually SEE what's right there in front of their eyes. I learned long ago, and not rather gently, BTW, that if I don't take the reins of my own efforts, things just don't tend to work out very well, no matter who is instructing me or how good their advice may be. Observation and analysis as an ongoing and never ending thing is the ONLY way I've ever found to make things work with any consistency and give me the results I really wanted to start with. "Responsibility" is almost a dirty word today, but when that sentiment is applied to casting, sooner or later it's gonna' cause trouble, and maybe BIG trouble, too, so I just thought it needed to be said. I only hope it's taken as it was intended to be. And thanks for the support, guys. Maybe that'll help get through the fog of PCishness that so permeates our land today, and its inhabitants? Can't hurt, so .... THANKS!

[largom]

Anyone that disagrees with this should not be casting and should not be here.
I have been casting boolits for many,many many years and have still learned a lot from this forum, not by asking questions but just by reading the different threads.

Larry

[bbqncigars]

Amen, Larry and Blackwater! I started out ('68) when the only available information was on paper, and (if you were lucky) an experienced mentor. The wealth of good information available on line is simply staggering. The trick, as always, is to take your time and understand before doing.

[44man]

Super great post Blackwater. Some act like liberals and search only for things that they agree with without looking at both sides and thinking. Some do not like work so they search for the easy way and other opinions to match. They skim important things and details so they have no work or thinking to do.
You are so right in that every single thing must be looked at and tested. I have fooled with lead a good 71 years from sinkers to boolits. I think I was 10 when I made my first molds for jigs, still have it and it still works. Make my own boolit molds and they out shoot anything.
Even here stuff is repeated because it was read somewhere. You MUST do this because it was in a gun rag! Casting is a small thing compared to all aspects of shooting and loading.
Two worst words are "I can't."

[BruceB]

Super great post Blackwater


Two worst words are "I can't."

Great thread, indeed.

I'll piggyback on 44man's "Two worst words", and add a corollary:

The NEXT worst words are:

"YOU can't" (shouldn't, better not, etc).

[geargnasher]

First rate counsel..excellent post..well said..and..Amen

I couldn't agree more.


Anyone that disagrees with this should not be casting and should not be here.
I have been casting boolits for many,many many years and have still learned a lot from this forum, not by asking questions but just by reading the different threads.

Larry

And some idiot bonehead actually gave this thread a one-star rating. Unbelievable.

Gear

[44man]

How do I get it to a five rating?

[Bodean98]

Blackwater,
You have the same username of a person on another forum I frequent. If you are the same person I would like to say hello.
I echo your sentiments exactly! I lurked here for quite some time reading and re-reading thousands of posts to try and learn. It was some time before I felt comfortable enough to even field a good question here because there is sooo much already answered. I have started casting again after a long time and a first attempt that was a miserable failure. Had I this resource (internet/Cast Boolits) 25 years ago I may have stayed with it and been successful by now!
Some folks consider read material as knowledge. The word knowledge infers intimacy(Biblical, to Know) . In other words "Been There, Done That". Many want to read others words and regurgitate them and claim them as theirs without having the least amount of "knowledge". We have MANY of these "experts" in our current government.(apologies for the thread drift)
I have much to learn and new things, for me anyway, to try. There are many I have noticed here with a "you can do it" attitude and are more than willing to share. In the end, you must still do the work for success.

[geargnasher]

..... In the end, you must still do the work for success.

That pretty much says it all, right there.

Gear

[varmint243]

If I could rate this thread a zero I would
It should be retitled "crotchety old codgers upset because the world is passing you by"
If you applied all the same effort you are talking about to towards operating your computer and phone you would be able to;
1.) figure out how to add pictures pictures in your posts
2.) accept PayPal
3.) use the shift key and punctuation
4.) use the search function
How many of you grumpy old men can only get on the forum because your daughter set your computer up for you ?
She probably set your browser to open on startup and go directly to the forum with your credentials stored.
If you R.T.M. you could do all that for yourself, it is super easy, you just have to read a little.
But no, they help you out and show you over and over and over again,
All the while knowing you will never remember anything and they will have to show you again tomorrow.
I guess it's a good thing your kids don't have the same attitude towards grumpy old codgers that you have towards them.
Seems like the classic case of pot-kettle black here.
Why don't you grumpy old dudes take a good long look in the mirror before posting this stuff again.
If the casting hobby dwindles and dies off it will be because of the attitude like I see of many old timers here.
Oh, and there is already a sticky on this topic, if you can find it.

[Love Life]

I just spit milk and mini-wheats all over the place.

[Blackwater]

Varmint, there's an old saying: "The bit dog hollers!" HAR! You can, of course, take the post any way you want, and do with it anything you will, but just why, if you can explain it, do you think not wanting to wipe grown men's butts should NOT be a bit put-offish????

[largom]

Well, guess I am one of those "crotchety old codgers" cause I do have to get my daughter to help me with my computer. But then I did spend $7,000.00 sending her to computer school. I can take an engine apart and put it back together again, I have built many guns, from scratch, for my own use, I am a self-taught machinist, I was a production supervisor for a fortune 500 company, I owned 3 prosperous business's before retiring, I worked as a gunsmith after retiring, but these damn computer's give me a fit. My daughter say's that I just don't understand the computer language. She must be right because I have enough problems with "Proper" English. I just say that I am not English, I am American with a little bit of Red-neck thrown in.

Larry

[44man]

Us old codgers did the work to help all the new people. The world has not passed us by, the world has learned from us. We are simple shooters of old fashioned guns, not the military with unlimited resources and money. I can't put a chip in a bullet to steer to a target. I do not have a phaser or laser. I have a hunk of lead.
Just maybe I have made the revolver shoot the way it should like no other and have explained it best I can. No secrets but get bashed every day from someone that reads a gun rag instead of finding out for themselves.
Many years ago with rifles, if I got over 3/4" at 100 with irons and cast, I failed.
Failure is the teacher.
My dad was a failure and thought more nails was better. Nail some 2x4's with 16 nails was stronger then 2. He ruined wood all the time. He removed the air cleaners from his cars because the engine could not breath with the thing. He ate engines. I watched and learned from failure. But I could not teach him at all. I was 4 when he was trying to take something apart in his car. I told him do it this way and he hollered at me, "what do you know?" He eventually tried it and he got it apart. Many shooters are like my dad.
But he was not stupid, seen him remove a straight 8 engine from a car and get it on the street without an engine lift. Just planks of wood. Then fix and get it back in the car. At times he was a genius. Or was it brute strength? You can't force your gun to shoot.

[Love Life]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?222520-Why-some-new-members-will-do-better-than-others-here

[runfiverun]

Varmint:
those old codgers you refer to spent the first 50 years of their life without a computer and had to remember all this stuff.
they don't learn how to use them better because they don't want to.
I refuse to learn how to upload/download pictures, sync this and that, or use the E-mail function on the forced on me I-phone.
I would rather be doing something with my hands [not just my thumbs]
it says something about you younger guy's that come on here and want to do this stuff too your just the same only with a different skill set.
you might not know which way to roll the small bales of hay for stacking, but you know what a Mb is. [shrug]

b.t.w. digital sucks.

[btroj]

Odd, it seems to me that often the crusty old codgers are the ones telling the younger noobs to use the search function.

It it has far less to do with age than it does a natural desire to learn by doing. I am an active learner. I try things, see how they work, then recalculate for round two.

Wanna be spoon fed? Go back to your mommy.

Ben is a crusty old codger, in ways, but is one of the best at using photos to tell a story. Explain that Varmint.

I learned by casting, loading, and shooting. No computer to help. Oddly, it all worked out fine. Musta been luck.

[Love Life]

It has been a confining winter for some.

[varmint243]

Clearly my point was totally missed......

When people ask for help you can help them, or not help them.
Don't forget that you yourself, whoever you are, will need help with things from time to time.

[TXGunNut]

Thanks, Blackwater. And thanks to all the other old codgers who have helped me these last few years. I'm a bit of an old codger myself but this casting bug bit me later than many of you.
I think newbies come here with no comprehension of the journey that starts when you decide to melt some lead and pour it in a mould. I know that was true for me. Some newbies think there isn't much to it, others (a bit smarter) do a bit of reading and are overwhelmed by the complexity of it all. They're both wrong; it's not easy but if you're willing to learn and work at it your efforts will be rewarded. If you're expecting instant results you've picked the wrong hobby. I had a humbling experience casting yesterday, just a reminder of how much I still have to learn.

[popper]

Too much 'suger teet' in the population these days.

[Larry Gibson]

My advise to newbies isn't that far removed from what is said here. I'll additionally advise them to simply remember 2 things;

First is that "rules" are made by man. You can change, bend, disregard and rewrite those rules. That's where the "I can't" of "you can't" come into play because we can do different things and we can change the equipment, techniques and firearms we are using. By changing things we can modify the rules. Problem is many of the old codgers and newbies don't want to change things and they get stumped because they then "can't".

Second there are the laws of Physics and Ballistics. The laws of Physics and Ballistics were ordained by God. Now rules we can change but the laws are not going to change. We have to learn to work with those laws if we are going to be successful bullet caster/shooters.

It all depends on the old codger or the newbie's level of expectation as to what he wants his cast bullets to do. I'd venture that 95+ % of the cast bullet shooters here, old codgers and newbies alike, are perfectly satisfied with their levels of shooting where only the basic of rules apply what they are doing is well within the Laws of Physics and Ballistics. That is why they are quite successful and go about their cast bullet shooting quite satisfied. My own personal opinion of the main difference between the newbie and the old codger is the newbie expects to learn everything there is to know about casting bullets and shooting them with one or two internet posts and watching a couple U-tube videos. The old codger knows better based on the experience of many years. The newbie doesn't understand that he "can't" learn it in a couple internet posts and the old codger gets frustrated because he "can't" convince the newbie of that.

Just my take on it.

Larry Gibson

[Minerat]

Blackwater, From an old codger that started casting at age 60 well said. I spent 2 years reading this forum before I ordered my first mould. Heck I still have questions but will spend 10 days messing with it before I ask for help. Just the Scottish in me I guess. Life to too short to argue with young,uns.

[MBTcustom]

Humility is a precious thing. We all know that you cannot learn without it, but you also cannot teach without it. Any time a man thinks he has it all sewn up, he's setting himself up for a fall.

Speaking from personal experience, the older I get, the more impressed I am about how much I thought i knew 20 years ago. Knowledge is like that. The more you get, the more you realize what you do not have, and the louder you yell about what you do have, the more people know what you do not.
Interesting.

As an aside, I would encourage everyone to read a few reloading manuals, and then read the stickies on this forum. Try to implement as much of that knowledge as you can to see how it really works.
I have read about 95% of the stickies on castboolits (some just do not apply to what I am doing at this time). It's a worthy endeavor.

[btroj]

Clearly my point was totally missed......

When people ask for help you can help them, or not help them.
Don't forget that you yourself, whoever you are, will need help with things from time to time.


That is true. The key is will I ask for help without seeking the answer beforehand? Will I ask blindly? Will I reseach the problem and try to format a solution then ask if that solution is viable?

There is a difference between those who see problems and those who see solutions that haven't been found.

[Char-Gar]

Clearly my point was totally missed......

When people ask for help you can help them, or not help them.
Don't forget that you yourself, whoever you are, will need help with things from time to time.

They best way to help a person is to stear them in the way of self learning and discovery. Lessons learned that way will stick for life and also increase a person's problem solving ability. Handing somebody an answer on a silver platter is not helping them. It is turning them into a dependent, who cannot do basic research and problem solving. They forever will need people to do their thinking for them. Just how in the world is that helping a person?

The above is plain and evident to any teacher, parent or thinking person. If you think that is just the rantings of a crotchy old man, you are dead wrong. It comes from a man who spent much longer than you have been alive, trying to help people have a good life. Helping very seldom means making things easy for them. Life is not easy and the sooner a person learns the skills of life, the better off they are.

Your posts on this thread display serious immaturity in your thinking. That is normal and to get on the other side of it, a person needs to take their elders with the seriousness they deserve. People who have lived for a long time and have accumulated wisdom in the process, need to be listened to. To dismiss them out of hand as crotchy old men is to start down a path that leads to nowhere, but having to repeat the old mistakes all over again.

"Some folks learn by listening, others by reading and others by watching. All the rest have to pee on the electric fence.".....Will Rodgers

[claude]

A good teachers job is indeed to provide answers, but there needs to be documentation to back it up. Then of ourse the credibility of the teacher can be called into question by something as simple as spelling.......:kidding:

[Garyshome]

You know reading is fine but it does not help you make the mistakes that need to be made and get some experience, before you can become competent at casting.
So start casting already, get on with the learning process.

[Char-Gar]

A good teachers job is indeed to provide answers, but there needs to be documentation to back it up. Then of ourse the credibility of the teacher can be called into question by something as simple as spelling.......:kidding:

Claude...How old are you and where did you get your education as a Teacher? Among other things I am a college professor and it is not the teachers job to provide answers. It is the teachers job to facilitate the learning process of the students. Sometimes that involves giving answers, but it also involved engaging the students in self learning and self discovery.

I will grant that many if not most students just want the answers, so they can pass the test, check the box and move on to the next course. But that is not what teachers are there to do, at least the good ones. Intellectual laziness is rampant among the students of today. That is why they need to learn Chinese so they can talk to their bosses and supervisors.

[btroj]

Learning is been done as an active process, not passive.

Why hey do many classes have labs? To see the reality of what was taught. Seeing is believing.

I don't mind answering questions but I also want to hear that you did some homework and learned the basics on your own. Too many want to be spoon fed. Schools today are far too concerned with self esteem. Once in the work force clients, customers, and patients don't rive a damn about your self esteem. You can either do the job or can't, it is that simple.

Best advice I have for anyone who want to learn to cast is to find a mentor close to them. Learn by observing then by doing with a mentor watching. You can read all you want here but until you put it into practice and actually do it the knowledge means little. Ever wonder why MDs do residencies? To learn to actually BE a doctor, not just learn about it.

Get off the computer and go fire up the pot. You might just learn something.

[geargnasher]

My teachers (both formal and informal, and to include my parents who have four graduate degrees between them) all helped me to build my self esteem by building confidence. Confidence is built by developing algorithms to solve life's problems, find correct answers, and by caching a large, general knowledge fund which can be relied on, updated, and increased throughout a person's lifespan. I built a proper house from scratch, with little beforehand knowledge, but with very tried and true methods of obtaining that knowledge as I needed it (books, seeking help/trading work with expert tradesmen). There is no problem outside of direct IC board failure that can occur to an automobile or machine that I cannot fix, I have the "tools" to diagnose and repair failures that I've never seen before. Self-esteem isn't build through coddling, it's built through learning how to be independent in thought and confidence in one's abilities to find a way to do whatever it is needed. That means you're going to have to learn from failure instead of moping about it. You're going to have to have to take responsibility for your own learning, and look to the sort of people who are good at "learning you" for answers, whether they be authors, Masters, teachers, or a Son trying to teach men to fish for themselves, or more importantly, the way to learn how to learn how to fish.

I am not a teacher, I am a doer. It takes all kinds to make a world, and I know my limitations. Maybe that's why I revere good teachers so much.

Gear

[truckboss]

Hey varmit,You need to reread the first post.If you think you are so smart and above all of this wealth then maybe this place is not for you.No dis intended,I find other web sites not to my liking and do not post let alone visit.My parents taught me if I had nothing good to say then be quiet.I'm with the one that said the older I get the more I don't know.:bigsmyl2:

[Char-Gar]

Self-esteem isn't build through coddling, it's built through learning how to be independent in thought and confidence in one's abilities to find a way to do whatever it is needed.

Gear

Not there is tipple distilled, dyed in the wool, twelve dollars a yard pure truth.

[Char-Gar]

Hey varmit,You need to reread the first post.If you think you are so smart and above all of this wealth then maybe this place is not for you.No dis intended,I find other web sites not to my liking and do not post let alone visit.My parents taught me if I had nothing good to say then be quiet.I'm with the one that said the older I get the more I don't know.:bigsmyl2:

Now, now don't be so hard on the lad. We were all once children at one time and most of us grew up in spite of ourselves. I think I grew up in one day at age 18 when I took a job as a ranch hand on a large West Texas ranch. The old hands always tested the new kids and you had to prove yourself capable of hard work and learning. They were not gentle about it either. But in those days, in that world, that is how you gained respect and was acceptance into the company of men. Whiners and children left by the front gate at the end of the first day. I wonder how today's young people would fare in such a world of rugged men.

I survived the first day and worked there off and on for four years as I went through college.

[Blackwater]

Varmint, I owe you an apology, and I want to make that right here, and sincerely. You're right. I AM getting rather curmudgeonly, and sometimes I just don't have the patience I ought to with some of the "modern" types who have been raised SOOOOO differently than I was. For that, I sincerely and herewith appologize, and hope it's accepted. Goodsteel's comments about humility are spot-on for both of us, and though I came here to appologize after a little reflection and reassessment, it was good to read his comments, because he's definitely right. I've long found that humility, when applied to both learning AND teaching, is one of our most valuable assets. I DO, however ask that you give us "old codgers" at least a little break. We put a man on the moon and developed the computers and programs you worship, so it's not like we've diddled our time away, or that we've become so enamored of our own selves that we've sunk into the bowels of hubris. We haven't. Guys from our experience and age have seen and done aplenty, and there's no more reliable way to keep a man humble and searching than that. Elder complaints about the young have been common as dirt since at least Roman times, and today's world surely can't be perceived in any other way than of requiring less and less effort on the average person's part, and the young know little of times when this wasn't so. We do, so we quite naturally and of necessity see things from very different perspectives. If you will, you could do a little reflecting yourself, and see how this is inevitable, and certainly NOT "wrong" of us.

Look at it this way: IF we "spoon feed" a newbie, are we REALLY "helping" him, or are we in actuality limiting his learning process so that when nobody's around to tell him how to do it, he won't be able to? One good example is black powder ctg. shooting. The old Schuetzen shooters were masters of it, and practically lived with their rifles. They HAD to. Temp, humidity and a myriad of factors affected them and their guns and components, and they had to learn how each affected their guns and their POI if they wanted to be really competitive. The skill of BPC shooting was lost after those wizards, because nobody wanted to know about it, preferring the "new fangledy" smokeless stuff, which was MUCH more trouble free in comparison. When good "buffalo rifles" again became available and popular, and BPCR shooting became popular with it, we had to start nearly from scratch to learn how to shoot the black stuff. We ALL did, young and old alike. And we had to start over because MY generation had regarded shooting black as passe' and antiquated and not worth knowing about. We were WRONG! It is really one of the most enjoyable and interesting pursuits I've ever had the pleasure of delving into. So, I guess you could say we "old codgers" have learned a thing or two along the way, and MOSTLY from our OWN mistakes. When we try to counsel the younger newbies and have to tell them things we've learned through sometimes bitter experiences of our own, it's NOT due to some lack of respect for the young, it's really to HELP them, whether it's what they WANT to hear or not. Truth is a very stubborn thing. It just doesn't change to suit us. It's constant, and those who've learned a bit of it through experience DO try to pass it on, but I think you'll have to admit, it's often spurned by those with more "modern" attitudes that regards "old fashioned" knowledge gleaned from actually DOING things, as being "beneath their dignity" to listen to or heed. So be it. It's YOUR future. If you want to keep making the same old mistakes over and over, you're perfectly free to do so. But you CANNOT expect us "old codgers" to just sit and salute your "modern attitude" and deny what we know to be true - not if you're an intelligent man, anyway, and if you're not an intelligent man, I guess it really doesn't matter much what you do, say or feel. Nobody will be able to help you with that.

Right now, I have a young lion friend who often calls me and asks me questions about loading, shooting, etc. He has some fine guns, but he's lazy, and he's often too cheap to take my advice. We were shooting on a 600 yd. range not long back, and I noted a clear fault in how he was using his rest, so I told him about it. He said, and I quote: "You're crazy! That couldn't POSSIBLY make any difference." I nodded, and told him if he was happy with the results he was getting, to go ahead doing it the same way. Some time later the same day and occasion, he called to me and asked me to look through the spotting scope at his target. The light was starting to fade and I said I had to finish shooting my own test loads. He again, with a ring in his voice that made me look over at him, repeated his request. When I looked over at him, his face was read as a beet, and he had a funny, sort'a sheepish grin on his face, and I knew that was a key that maybe I'd better go take a look. When I did, I could hardly believe my eyes! He'd shot a 2 1/4" group at 600, and he'd been shooting 8-10" groups and larger at the same target and distance. I looked back at him, and to his everlasting credit, he said, "You were right! I did what you said and that's what I got. So, maybe you're not so crazy after all?" We both got a good laugh out of it, and nobody was prouder of him than me, except maybe he himself. I've got another friend who deals with a lot of lesser knowledgeable folks, and we both try to help newbies, but I have to tell you, it gets really old after a while being told that Truth is "crazy," "dumb," and worse, by folks who can't even hit an 8" pie plate at 100 from a bench rest! I don't see how it could really be any different, do you? So yes, we DO get rather curmudgeonly sometimes, but we DO come by it quite honestly. There's not a man here, including us "old codgers," if not especially us, who doesn't want all the newbies here to become master casters and shooters, but the way we're regarded and treated sometimes, and the way our solid advice is disregarded or taken the wrong way, it really does get harder and harder to keep contributing. Even us "old codgers" have much to learn here, and I keep trying to do so because there's not a one of us, young OR old, who "knows it all." Life just doesn't give us enough time to learn THAT much! But we're ready and willing and able to share a lot of good stuff with the younger, newer crowd, regardless of their age, if only we just don't get trampled on and told how "crazy" we are, or see our advice totally disregarded in favor of something they've read elsewhere or in some book, or been told by a friend. Your choice, as always, but IF you choose to read and listen and learn and try and repeat, you'll become a "master caster" quicker by paying attention to the folks here, especially the old timers with the big post counts, than anywhere else I know of on the face of the earth. THAT is how good I regard this place to be. Your choice, of course, of course, but we "old codgers" don't exactly HAVE to contribute to your edification, and sometimes, some of the more "opinionated" newbies make it rather hard for us to WANT to. I just thought that needed to be noted, but never intended it to be any sort of put-down, though with much of the younger crowd, being told anything they don't WANT to hear is regarded rather unpleasantly. So, this is my "old codger's" story, and I'm stickin' to it. No reason whatever not to.

[claude]

Sometimes that involves giving answers, but it also involved engaging the students in self learning and self discovery.

Perhaps Char, that was why I stated the need for proper documentation, did that cross your mind? As for your stated credentials, they don't necessarily guarantee you are a good teacher, nor does the fact that you have taught for a long time. I have been around tenured professors who couldn't tie their shoes nor teach anyone else how.

I'm sure you mean well, but I don't come here to waste your time or anyone elses with frivolous questions that I can find the answers to by a bit of study. There are answers that are not easily divined even with study.

As to my age, I am 64, and as to the spelling crack,
steer, is not stear, and does infact bring credibility into play coming from an avowed teacher. Teachers are far from perfect, as are we all, but one would realistically expect a teacher, teaching about teaching, to teach it accurately.

Have a good evening Char.

[Love Life]

[QUOTE=Char-Gar;3160527] I wonder how today's young people would fare in such a world of rugged men.

QUOTE]

Probably the same as you did, you old oak you. They would put their britches on and get the work done.

The bums, same as in your magnificent generation, would continue to be bums.


There are people with stunted learning ability in all age groups.

[1911KY]

Good stuff! I am a fairly new caster and feel that I have advanced pretty quickly due in large part to putting in the work and paying attention. Do I have every aspect mastered, definitely not, but I know the knowledge to do so is here and it's up to me to track it down.

I try to assist with the ultra newb questions when I can, to take some of the burden off of the older guys who have probably answered the same newb questions a thousand times.

[claude]

A final note Char-Gar, because I have no intention of trying to turn this into a urinating contest, I believe we are much more in agreement than opposed, with that, I will bid you good evening.

[varmint243]

Blackwater,

That was a very thoughtful and thought filled post.
Having just turned 50, I feel like I straddle the gap between the young punks and crotchety old codgers.
I enjoy learning from the older crowd at my club, and I enjoy helping the young ones get started.
I very well remember life before technology and worked with my hands in the trades for many years,
I have also spent the last 15 years making my living in technology.
Should we ever be at the range together I am certain we would enjoy trading ideas and experiences.

[TheDoctor]

I am very very good at teaching, especially technical aspects, IF you give me someone who actually wants to learn. It's real easy to say you want to, but show no dedication. I've been loading for about 20 years, casting for almost 10. Seems the more I learn, the less I feel I know. Amazes me that lots of people I know look at ME like I'm an expert. I've found that some I have tried to teach want to try to learn it all overnight. Can't be done. Had one cat a few years back wanted to learn how to reload. I gave him a book, told him to read it three times, then come talk to me. The book never left his desk, but he was constantly asking questions. Questions that the book answered, and that if he had read it, would actually have good questions to ask. Lost cause for me. Had another that very carefully read some stuff I gave him, asked a few good questions, then never asked anything again. I insisted that my boyos learn at least the basics, most importantly safety. But I can not MAKE them become really interested. That's up to them. I never had a mentor. I read what I could, and asked lots of questions on various forums. I am sure many of them were, and still are, questions that have been asked many times in the past. Sometimes one has to ask questions, and get pointed in a direction, to know what questions to ask. If that makes any sense.

[Char-Gar]

A final note Char-Gar, because I have no intention of trying to turn this into a urinating contest, I believe we are much more in agreement than opposed, with that, I will bid you good evening.

Not any kind of contest, just my response to your statement that it is a teachers job to provide answers with proper documentation. That statement is patently false and not held by anyone in the teaching profession. That may be your uninformed opinion, but that does not make it true or correct. Such falsehoods should be challenged so that folks unfamiliar with teaching don't take them as valid. I don't challenge your statement to change your thinking, for that would be a vain effort, I do it for the sake of others who might read this thread.

That and a polemic about what auto correct did with my typo, is all I know of you. Until I know more you, I won't entertain the notion that we have anything in agreement. Thus far, I can find nothing in common with you or anything in agreement.

[Char-Gar]

Blackwater,

That was a very thoughtful and thought filled post.
Having just turned 50, I feel like I straddle the gap between the young punks and crotchety old codgers.
I enjoy learning from the older crowd at my club, and I enjoy helping the young ones get started.
I very well remember life before technology and worked with my hands in the trades for many years,
I have also spent the last 15 years making my living in technology.
Should we ever be at the range together I am certain we would enjoy trading ideas and experiences.

I sure wish you would not label people over a certain age as "crotchety old codgers". No group of any age likes to be labeled and dismissed without understanding the differences that exists in people of all ages and among people of the same age. Such labels do not facilitate communication or friendship. There are words that divide, frustrate and anger people. I for one, do not like to be called names and am offended by such things. You may be teasing or think you are cute or funny, but I don't know you well enough to accept that in good humor. You should know people well, before you feel free to throw around such pejorative labels. Much of the sour tone of this thread is the result of your use of that label. Older posters respond to it negatively and that is not good.

[btroj]

Old is a matter of life but crotchety and codger are words that carry a negative tone.

Painting with a broad brush based solely on age is never a good idea.

Young and old deserve respect unless they otherwise prove to be unworthy of respect.

[varmint243]

Old is a matter of life but crotchety and codger are words that carry a negative tone.

Painting with a broad brush based solely on age is never a good idea.

Young and old deserve respect unless they otherwise prove to be unworthy of respect.

A fair statement for sure.

There seems to be a very negative tone on this board towards the younger crowd.
These are the young people that will pick up the torch and carry until the next generation picks it up.
The same as this generation did for the generation before it.
This new generation uses phones, tablets, computers, search engines, and message boards to get more and better information faster.
It works.
Example;
I had a serious question this fall, did a quick search, found out about Fryxell searched for the issue I was having and got my answer within a few minutes.
I also made a post here and got some more ideas to think about.
The younger crowd does this without thinking.
If they have a problem at the range, they look for a solution right then while they are at the range.

I remember in the early 70's when the young guys thought anyone over 30 couldn't be trusted and the old timers hated the hippies.
Hmmm, I wonder where those who were young people in the 70's are today ???
I have a young son, I hope his generation takes technology to a whole new level I couldn't have imagined.
I don't want him to be stuck in the past as to how he accesses information.
The fact that his school still teaches going to the library, using Dewey decimal system, card catalogs, and long division on a blackboard is insane.

[btroj]

I don't like the tone towards younger people. I don't like the tone towards older people.

What I see is a divide between those who seek instant answers and those who seek answers thru hard work. Many here learned what they know not from reading what others did but by casting, loading, and shooting.

While much can be learned by reading here, and elsewhere, in the end the individual must do the work and apply the knowledge. Casting is somewhat an art. You must learn to observe what is happening and learn how to fix the problems.

I fight the the same thing at work. I tell my staff to think with their minds, not their mouth. Stop, analyze what is happening, and formulate a potential solution. Then come and ask if that solution is feasible. I want to understand your thought process so we can discuss where you went wrong. That is learning.

I have no issues with technology at all. Where I do have a problem is where it becomes a crutch instead of a tool. Technology can make our lives easier but it should not be used as a way to remove ourselves from the cognitive process.

[Larry Gibson]

Most of us don't care what your age is. Only the fact you want to cast bullets is important here. There are a lot of "newbies" that come here with more actual experience and knowledge than many "old codgers". It is the state of mind and willingness to learn what works and what doesn't that is important. Labeling to ignore or discount is not conducive to learning and inhibits our ability to progress.

Larry Gibson

[Blackwater]

Absolutely spot on, Gear.

And Varmint, thanks for your response and sentiments. I think we'd get along just fine at the range. You know, it's funny, but this etherous electrical realm has a way of dividing folks who'd probably naturally gravitate together in real life. That's one reason I don't really care to maximize my abilities on this electronic thingie they call a "computer." I value the information I can get on it, but it DOES present us with problems no previous generation has really had to deal with, so we're ALL, young and old alike, having occasional non-necessary difficulties because of our collective and individual inexperience, and it doesn't seem to matter whether we're barely able to navigate the 'net, or are a programmer. It seems to be similar, if not the same, for all of us in that respect.

And as to being offended by some words, we ALL are like that. Age has little to do with it. I, personally, have come to the point that I'm starting to wear the "crotchety" type comments with a little bit more pride than I'm probably entitled to. I've EARNED the title quite honestly, and occasionally at least, I have to admit it FITS. Why should I be offended when the accuser is right??? That I just MAY be justified in being so is another issue, and one that isn't likely to find much agreement between agrieved parties. Since I'm not into whizzing contests, I usually respond and then let it lay, but being human, one never really quite knows HOW he's going to react. Too many variables involved.

Anyway, though, I STILL just hope some of the newbies here, no matter what their age, will benefit from this thread. We old timers get the way we are quite honestly, usually, and it's US that very often (no, not always) had the self-centered attitudes when WE were younger. However, to think this is a never ending cycle and will always turn out good in the end is NOT logical nor accurate. Technology MUST press on because that's how we'll be defending ourselves in the future, and those who don't progress WILL wind up being governed by those who DO progress. What worries me, not for myself but for my son and grandsons, is the way so many other countries like China, Iran, India, etc. ARE progressing while we in America seem to be educating so many foreigners and letting our own youth diddle away their time playing video games, etc., and we don't seem to be teaching them anything at all about the things in life that REALLY matter, like principles, morals, ethics and religion, but this isn't the place for that discussion. All I'll say is that if history shows us anything, it's that nations who rise "to the top" usually if not always seem to get complacent (via what used to be called "human nature") and then, being complacent, design and execute their OWN demise by failing to strive for much of anything, and just living "off the fat of the land." You can see this everywhere if we'll but open our eyes, but crotchety old men are poo pooed, and not listened to - part of that "human nature" thing" - and, as Sonny and Cher once said, "The Beat Goes On." I've lived a pretty long and amazing life, and had some spectacular successes and failures, so my life's been pretty darn well as complete as anyone could possibly expect, and much moreso than many would want. Ultimately, I guess I'm just an old cowboy without his rope and horse these days, and I just don't fit into the politically correct crowd's innermost sanctums, nor do I want to, even if I could. It's right that we separate ourselves into groups that have the simple background to understand each other, and it's also right that we mingle with others and spread what we can TO them, and glean what we can FROM them, age being just one of those factors. As the Good Book says, there's a time and place for everything, including, I suspect, getting crotchety, as well as being young and having to learn that we CAN'T always have everything we want the way we want it to be. That's pretty much the very definition of "experience," and it really doesn't take a genius to figure out just why it has value.

Well, I think I've said all I really have to say, so I think I'll abandon this thread. Thanks to so many of you who are experiencing the same things I am so often - newbies telling us how "crazy" we are for doing things that work, and work well, and work consistently. I guess it IS true that, after a fashion at least, misery really DOES love company - or at least finds some solace in it, anyway. Now, I'm goan go have me some FUN! I may be old and crotchety, but I can STILL have as much pure, unadulterated FUN as the youngest nebie here! HAR!

[Char-Gar]

Yes to many of the above. It is not age that matters, but the attitude. Some folks come here with open mouths like baby birds waiting for mommy to put the worm in. They are not happy when mommy points them to where the worms are and says "go find your own". Mommy bird will also push them out of the next when it is time for them to fly and be on their own.

Some folks of all ages, don't like to be pushed out of the nest to find their own worms. People of all ages, who are independent free standing people who do their own thinking and research have a negative response to folks do don't want to do the same. We try and help folks on this board become experienced bullet casters and reloaders and will go to great lengths to help them, IF they are willing to take on responsibility for their own continued learning. Some folks are not willing and as Shakespear said; "Ay there is the rub!".

With this said, I will cease my involvement is this thread. The subject matter is becoming Zombie like, in that you can't kill it and it just keeps coming back to life over and over again.

Over and Out!

[OptimusPanda]

As someone who personally found reloading manuals to be dense tomes written in another language and translated 3 or 4 times before finally being printed in English I can understand the frustration of the newer reloaders and their dislike for "old men". Problem is, those "old men" have been asked that question countless times and have gotten sour at telling people the trim length of 8mm Mauser. So here's a few good things that helped me along the way:
*google is your friend, if you can't find the answer on one forum someone somewhere else has probably asked and gotten some semblance of an answer to your question
*there really are some great videos on YouTube for new people to reloading and casting
*the reloading manuals will offer their knowledge as you're ready to accept it
*dont taunt the caged tiger by calling him an "old man"

[Love Life]

My dear sweet mother, who is 52 years old, has been reloading 9mm on a Lee Pro 1000 since January. While down for Christmas at her house, all I did was set the press up and give her a Hornady manual along with powder, primers, brass, bullets, etc . I told her I would be back in March to walk her through the process.


Early January she called me and said her first load work up was a success. Huh? Hold the phone!! I told her I would be there in March. She said " I read the book you gave me and just followed the directions."

I love my mom!! Her and my father will corroborate the story if anybody feels the need to call and ask, and she can be found at Larry's Pistol and Pawn shooting quite often.

That's the long and short of it to me. Read the book, do some 'sperimenting, and get on with it.

Like casting. Get lead hot, pour it into a mould using a bottom pour, spoon, or ladle, dump the bullets and voila!! Adjust fire from there.

I'm far from being a crotchety old codger, I find the references to younger folk annoying, but it boils down to being able to follow simple instructions and practical application. Also, dies come with set up instructions.

I help where it is needed, but I ignore when the help is readily available via manuals, included instructions, manufacturers websites, etc.

I also like my fried chicken soaked in buttermilk for a couple hours before battering and frying.

[jmort]

Only experts can get the Lee progressives to work, therefore, I disbelieve this based on that "fact."

[Love Life]

The lee progressive was easy peasy. The priming system isn't the best, but if you can count beyond 3 then you can monitor your primer level and be fine. You are more than welcome to shoot against her at Larry's. Even though she has switched to left hand shooting due to a right arm injury, my money is still on her...and she shoots a 45 most of the time.

[blackthorn]

Quote "I have a young son, I hope his generation takes technology to a whole new level I couldn't have imagined.
I don't want him to be stuck in the past as to how he accesses information."

Yes!! Absolutely!! Good for you!

Quote "The fact that his school still teaches going to the library, using Dewey decimal system, card catalogs, and long division on a blackboard is insane."


Until he is somewhere needing an answer --- and the battery on whatever gadget he depends is dead! There are good reasons to know "how to do things the hard way".

[popper]

My wife gives me that 'look' when I try to tell the GKs that they are training (in training) to be winners/losers - quitters/finishers right now. You play like you practice! I can only drop hints of what works and what doesn't.

[joesig]

I am not a teacher, I am a doer. It takes all kinds to make a world, and I know my limitations. Maybe that's why I revere good teachers so much.

Gear

Unless you do it in secret "Doers" are teachers! I learned a lot at my father's and grandfathers' elbows watching and learning what they did. Patiently explaining the science or logic behind it is helpful but that depends on the student's needs.

Doing and sharing is teaching be it new casters' questions or old casters' answers. New questions make me think how I would I solve it, answers make me think how and wonder what the next step is.

Signed the perpetual student. (Now back to studying for a certification.)

[pjames32]

Wow! Great thread you started Blackwater.
First thought is I'm old and have been casting and reloading for over 45 years.
When I joined this forum (after being a lookie loo) I was new to trying to cast for a 45-70 after only casting pistol for many years. I spent a lot of time reading sticky's then posed some questions. Many of the responses suggested prior posts (good), many answered my questions and a few treated me like a fool (not so good).
One even went so far as to send me some boolits to try (really good).
This is a good forum. Thanks for being here!
PJ

[Bongo Boy]

While the message is of course the great value of your post, it's also an extraordinary pleasure to find viewpoints and guidance expressed so well in writing. Nicely thought out, nicely executed!

[Blackwater]

One last thing, and then I think we're done here. If you've ever watched casters at work, it's likely you didn't notice much difference in what they were doing, whether they were rank newbies or old hands. That's because there ISN'T much difference. It's what's going on inside their heads that's different. The more experienced caster is observing alloy temp by noticing how long the sprues take to solidify, how "thin" the pour appears to be, and useful stuff like that. Likely as not, the newbie will be worrying about all sorts of questions in his mind, and NOT focusing on what's right in front of him. That, as it turns out, is a HUGE difference. One is focused on what he's doing, and the other on all sorts of questions, many of which really don't matter, or if they do, not by much. Getting good results depends on your focus and intensity of your observation. This really isn't rocket science, and there's no point in sacrificing chickens to the new moon, or any of that stuff. It's just a good and worthy task that can help us shoot a lot more and a lot cheaper, and make better bullets that we can't or needn't buy. The rest is all about lubing, loading and shooting them, and that too depends on our focus and observational powers. Just use those, and quit worrying (EXCEPT about safety, of course) and you'll suddenly start getting results just like the old codgers do. There are no "secrets" or mysteries involved in this. Yes, once they're cast, there's a lot of choices to be made, like fitting to the throats, lube choice for the purpose at hand, powder charges for best accuracy, etc., but by and large, this is pretty easy stuff. It just takes our attention and focus. That's really about all there is to it. Too many of us old timers have basically taught ourselves for it to be mysterious or difficult. If we can do it that way, you younger and/or newbies to casting can do the same, and it ought to be even easier for you with such a great resource as this board to help you or confirm your suspicions or apprehensions, and you'll find the old heads here plenty willing to help, even if it's only a guess. Just give us the facts, as best as you know to, and together, there's really nothing I can think of we can't handle for you. One amongst us at least, will have likely dealt with the very same issue. Just another point I thought ought to be made.

[Bongo Boy]

One last thing, and then I think we're done here. If you've ever watched casters at work, it's likely you didn't notice much difference in what they were doing, whether they were rank newbies or old hands. That's because there ISN'T much difference. It's what's going on inside their heads that's different. The more experienced caster is observing alloy temp by noticing how long the sprues take to solidify, how "thin" the pour appears to be, and useful stuff like that. Likely as not, the newbie will be worrying about all sorts of questions in his mind, and NOT focusing on what's right in front of him.

So it's just like golf.

[Blackwater]

Exactly. I started golf late in life, AFTER I'd hurt my back, so my backswing (which controls everything that comes afterward) was .... um .... let's say "variable." Couldn't get a consistent backswing for love nor money. It just wasn't possible, given my back's condition. But I kept doggedly trying, and like many golfers, played for two or three "perfect" shots a round, which was about 2-3% of my game at the time. Then the yips hit my putting as I kept playing, which I'd hoped to help my back, but was instead hurting it. So .... I can well identify with many newbies who aren't getting their desired results right off the bat. At least they don't have to give up the game like I did with golf. My old Scots heritage HATED to do that, but ..... life's about choices in the end, and that was one I HAD to make, so I did. And if the younger/newer casters will give up a little of their "modern" attitude, and simply apply the older (and maybe more "difficult[?]") but more rewarding path, I think they'll be very surprised at how quickly they can become "old pros" too. I know it works 'cause I've seen it happen, and not just a few times, either. Charles Swindoll said attitude is one of the most important things we can have. It can control our success in any endeavor we fling ourselves upon, and casting is but one of the simpler ones. Now, I think we're REALLY done here?

[btroj]

And all this is why casting is as much an art as it is a science