Converting a Lyman 358-311 RN to hollow base - am I nuts?

[bedbugbilly]

O.K. I have way too much time on my hands to think things up.

I load and shoot quite a few 38 (long and special) black powder cartridges - SA revolver as well as my Handi-Rifle. I usually use a lead boolit out of a Lyman/Ideal 358-311 mold - drops around 160 gr. and is a RN.

So I've been thinking - normally I finger lube the grooves with my BP lube I've used for years. On the pistols, it works very well but in the longer Handi-Rifle barrel, I sometimes get fouling build up after a few shots.

I have shot rifled musket for years - thousands of rounds and I always lubed the hollow base of the Minie with crisco. (for shooting NSSA).

So I have a spare Ideal/Lyman single cavity 358-311 set of blocks. What I'm thinking is having someone take the blocks and make a hollow base mold out of it by adding a base pin. My thoughts are that at least for the Handi - I can finger lube the grooves as well as the base - load them with a thin cardboard wad between the boolit and powder (to prevent contamination of the powder) and the hollow base would provide two things. One is extra lube for the Handi barrel to keep the fouling softer and the second, good expansion. Yea, at .358 they already grip the rifling on the way out but I'm just wondering what the results might be? The extra lube would help I'm sure (no, i don't want to put a "lube cake" under the boolit) - I just don't know how the "flight" would be affected.

So . . . is this a "crazy idea" or does it have any potential? Problems?

In a rifled musket, the base expands to fit grip the rifling and the lube keeps the fouling very controllable for quite a few shots - enough to last through a relay. The .358 is certainly oversize by .001 or .002 (depending how it drops from the mold) but I'm just curious if the extra lube using BP might not make the fouling that occurs less of a problem in both a SAA and the Handi? Or, by making the base hollow and the boolit lighter on the back end - is it going to contribute to other problems such as key holing? Hollow base WC are used so I'm thinking this might be a plausible thing to play around with?

[Ben]

I would not do it, but that's just me...............

[Char-Gar]

I would not do it, but that's just me...............


Not me neither! (That is Texan for I would also not do it)

[bhn22]

To do this, you'd need to convert it to nose pour, then mount a plate of some sort on the bottom to hold the hollowbase plug in position. This would be a great deal of money to spend on a single mould. You may be able to find a hollowbase version of Keiths 358429 with a bit of searching. If all you're after is more lubrication, consider using a grease cookie.

From CBRicks site: http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_12_KeithSWC.htm

[bedbugbilly]

bhn22 . . . all this meandering thinking about it and I plum forgot it wouldn't work just for the reason you stated. Well, not easily anyway. It was just one of those "duh thoughts" . . . A while back, I ran across a 358 mold that was HB and it looked like it might work O.K. for what I was thinking of. I didn't get a good chance to look at it very well as a guy was buying it . . typical story . . day late and a dollar short. But at least it got me to thinking about it. If I had access to a lathe and a mill I'd attempt it from scratch but those days are long gone . . . and probably a good thing or I'd be in all sorts of "projects".

Thanks fellas for knocking be "back to my senses" . . . a fella needs that every once in a while! :-)

[bhn22]

One other thought... Try hollowbase wadcutters if the distances won't be too lengthy. I believe both MP & NOE have stock on moulds.

[country gent]

It could be convertedtohollowpoint but hollow base has no stock on that end to work with. Converting to nose pour isnt a big issue I have done it once before on a postell mould. For what you want it would be easier to drill form the hollow base and send off to one of the custom makers to have done.

[w30wcf]

bbb,
Since it appears your goal is to shoot .38 Special b.p. loads in a rifle I believe you have 2 options:
1.) Use either Swiss or Olde Enysford b.p. with your current bullet. They don't foul as much as other b.p.'s.
2.) Purchase Accurate Mold 36-155C http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=36-155C-D.png
It carries additional lube and runs great with Goex in my Marlin's 24" barrel. :smile:

It is also available in a 145 gr version http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=36-145C-D.png

w30wcf

[.22-10-45]

I have hollow-based the Lyman 358311..as well as others when I needed a bullet for my 1972 era Colt re-make 1851 .36 percussion that I fitted with a Kirst conversion .38 L.C. cyl. I did it using a wood lathe & 5/16" ball nosed end mill. Bullet held friction tight in sizer die..that was alot of work..but not nearly the work your contemplating converting that mould. Why not just call Old West Bullet Moulds..Ernie made me a dandy hollow-based...heeled bullet for that same revolver. By the way..don't let anyone tell you smokeless won't obturate like black..those H.B. bullets were fully expanded their whole bearing surface..this with only 3.0gr. Bullseye.

[beagle]

It is doable. I have converted a Lyman to nose pour and adding a block to the (now base) for the HB pin is the biggest task. The index pin for the sprue plate stop has to be relocated as does the mounting screw for the sprue plate. The block index pins get in the way unless you plan just right but they can be re-drilled. Scaling the bottom off to access the nose on the 358311 would be easy.

Maybe a 2 hour job for a good man with a CNC mill but it is doable if that's what you want./beagle

[bhn22]

It would look like a rather curious Hoch mould. Stranger things have been done.

[Cd662]

It sounds like a lot of work, but post pictures if you get it done!

[Geezer in NH]

Forster trimming tool with Hollow pointer may be the best deal IMHO

[Forrest r]

A common lyman mold that comes up for sale every now & then is the 35870 hb mold.A close-up of the 35870 hb bullets.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/35870hbs_zps5a05e10c.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/35870hbs_zps5a05e10c.jpg.html)

Another common hb bulet molds are the raphine molds, I have hb molds for the 35cal's, 44cal's & 45cal's. They cast a good bullet, some .360 150g hb fn bullets from a raphine hb mold.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/38splhbfn_zpsc5yjnpeo.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/38splhbfn_zpsc5yjnpeo.jpg.html)

Another option would be to swage your own hb bullets. Any of the ch or herters presses would work as would the old herters or hollywood swaging dies that screwed into a standard 7/8-14 reloading press. A simple rn swaging die with a hb pin and a bunch of cast bullets (358311/any 148g wc/etc) would work. The last herters .358 swaging die I sold (fit a standard 7/8-14 press) has a rn/swc/swchp/wc nose forming pins along with hb and fb (flat based) posts that went into the shell holder of the press.

Lead bullets are easy enough to swage, some 93g 30cal bullets swaged into 32cal hbwc's.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/93tohbwc_zps9bd9826e.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/93tohbwc_zps9bd9826e.jpg.html)

There's allot of ways to get a hb bullet.

[bhn22]

A friend of mine and I sat down on our last snowy day and came up with at least five different ways to convert an existing mould or bullet to hollowbase. Some were pretty amusing, some were pretty expensive. We were bored.

[bedbugbilly]

Forrest r - thanks! After posting this, I discovered the molds you refer to. My idea of converting the 358-311 was at the very least, "hair brained"! :-) If I still had access to lathes and mills, I might take it on but at this point in my life - can't justify adding the equipment to do a conversion. Plus, the wife might not like it to well since we are "down sizing" , not "increasing" - which at our age is a good idea!

I'm going to keep my eyes open for those molds and at some point, maybe I can come up with one. Appreciate the info and the photos . . they all look great!