Question's for you progressive re-loaders.

[Brett Ross]

Question for you progressive re-loaders.
1. Do you lube your pistol cases
2. If you do, how do you clean the loaded cases, is it necessary?
I have the dreaded (by some) loadmaster and have so far gotten along well with it loading 38 special. I have not had the same fortune with 9x19. I guess it is working OK but do have primer feed issue’s from time to time. The only real difference I notice is the 9x19 sizes harder thus the press takes more force to operate. The press is mounted very solid in a 2x12 which is solidly mounted to my bench, I get little to no movement while in operation. I am thinking I may possibly be getting a giggle at a bad time and causing the primer issues. I’m considering lubing the cases to make operation smoother but wondering if I need to clean the loaded cases afterwards. I read both ways but mostly speaking of rifle cases not lower pressure pistol, what are you guys doing?
Tony

[ffries61]

1. Yes, with Hornady One-shot
2. Don't clean after loading, box'em up and shoot'em

Fred

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Yep, One shot is good stuff.

[Brett Ross]

I do have some one-shot at home, don't use it often as lee mixed with alcohol is cheaper and yes I am cheep. I will give is a go tonight with the one shot and see if it helps.
Thanks Tony

[labradigger1]

I use lanolin/ alcohol mix to lube all cases, pistol and rifle, even with carbide dies. It makes the sizing effortless.
Load them up.
Throw loaded rounds in a vibratory tumbler with corncob media and a little mineral spirits, cleans them right up in a few minutes.
Lab

[silverjay]

Interesting, I have never lubed pistol cases. I tumble clean them and the load. I get more resistance from the release of the belling step than sizing.

[Doc Highwall]

I never have lubed pistol cases using carbide dies. I have given them a quick tumble in corn cob to give them a light cleaning to get dirt off them from semi-autos that throw them on the ground so as not to scratch the dies/cases.

[troyboy]

Try polishing your expander, this will reduce vibration and resistance.I also sort tbe brass by headstamp as different brands have there own feel priming and resizing.

[merlin101]

Years ago I did lube straight wall pistol cases but then I discovered CARBIDE DIES and never looked back! Just give them a quick tumble in corn cob sift size load shoot repeat.

[Walter Laich]

with rotator cuff injury I find the One-Shot to really help in the force necessary to resize. I can do it without OS but why when it makes reloading much easier.
don't bother with removing it after reloading--hasn't been a problem

[Brett Ross]

Thanks all for the replys
I never considered the resistance coming from the expander but will check it out. The loads last night were FMJ so was not expanding the cases much. I lubed 200 cases at lunch and will try that first as I like to change only one thing at a time. I did spend some time last night before loading to clean and smooth up some flashing's on the primer system, it helped much from the night before but still not good enough. What puzzles me is why I have no problems with the 38 but do the 9MM. Like I said before, the only difference I notice is the force it takes to run the loader does not allow me to be as "fluid". My next change will be to swap out the die holders. I did read somewhere Lee was have QC issue with some. By the way I de-prime and run the all my brass though a ultra-sonic cleaner Prior to loading.
Tony

[BruceB]

With regard to the Hornady "One Shot" case lube:

I bought an RCBS stuck-case remover very early in my handloading "career". It sat on a shelf, unused, for about thirty years.

Then, I bought a can of One Shot.

Within a week or so, I had stuck at least four cases in resizing dies. I threw the can in the trash and went back to my previous case lube... no further problems.

For a long time now, I've been using Midway's pump-bottle lube, which I think is just lanolin in an alcohol carrier. It works superbly, and an 8-ounce bottle lasts literally for years. Excellent stuff.

[jakharath]

I have not lubed pistol cases in the past but have heard that it makes loading smoother so thinking about trying it the next time I do some reloading.

I tumble with walnut media, mineral spirits and NuFinish.

[Moonie]

9mm can be an issue as it uses the same shell plate as 40/10mm. The issue is that the 9mm is slightly smaller so it isn't lined up quite perfectly and can cause priming issues. Mike talks about this on his website and possible fixes for it:

http://mikesreloadingbench.com/

[Brett Ross]

Sounds like Mike describes it to a Tee. Now to find some .030 dia wire

[Iowa Fox]

I got my first set of carbide dies in 1970 or 71. Everyone told me that you didn't have to lube cases with carbide so I didn't. After a year or so I noticed very fine full length scratches from the mouth of the case to the place where the carbide ring stopped when in the sizing die. Looking at the carbide ring in the light with a loupe I could see brass built up on the carbide ring. I cleaned the ring with some bore solvent and the brass came right off. I have been lubing ever since. No more scratches or build up on the carbide ring. Plus the cases slide into the die like hot butter.

[Brett Ross]

I am going to try lubing as I think it will help greatly. Like I said, one change at time, tonight is lubed cases.
Tony

[josh82]

I never lube cases on my dillon 650, but I use the dillon carbide dies and with them its not necessary to lub em. Happy reloading;-)

[jmorris]

As you can see there are two types of people, those that lube their pistol cases and those who have never tried it.

I don't know anyone that has tried it that didn't like it, even with carbide dies, it just makes the process smoother with less effort.

I post load tumble to knock off the lube 10-15 min in corncobb.

[Brett Ross]

Success… OK I broke rule #1 and changed a couple things. First I did lube the cases and it did cut my operating effort down by at least ½. The second thing I did was to clean the powder through expander (it was filthy; need pay more attention to that). The third change was to adjust the case guide on station 1 so the case would ride out further. I will do Mikes mod later as I do not load for a forty and if I get one will either get a new shell plate or just load them on the turret. Now after these 3 changes ran the last 175 XTPs I had with 0 issues. The next test will be lead. I use a 38SW expander when I load lead in 9X19 and will find out if that presents a problem this weekend. Thanks all for the help.

[gunoil]

I have 2 loadmasters, one is designated for decapping only. That lets each brass see if it will make it thru the loadmaster & the bad brass can be tossed.

Then l check each headstamp again at the arbor press station with lee base swage die which is a makarov die.

Then wash in ss/lemishine, then lizard litter./polish. Yea, l like preping brass.

I have everything magic mike sells. (mikesreloadingbench.com)

I do same brass prep for stuff l run on my super 1050 dillon. lts great running prep'ed brass thru super 1050.
l have dillon lube but do not use it much.

lee
http://youtu.be/mYJBmACkibc

arbor press:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuWynqM41p8

old lee vid:
http://youtu.be/nz7qO-Epu8o

decaper/loadmaster
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThMYhaZ-bMM


--------------------------------

[HeavyMetal]

you say your 38 special's size easier than the 9mm case???

You wouldn't be shooting a Glock? I suspect your de Glocking your brass in the 9mm and yes this would account for "harder" effort.

You also did not mention die type or construction, are you using a carbide sizer die?

[Kevin Rohrer]

Nope, no need.

Anytime I need to lube cases, I resize them off the Dillon, then tumble to clean, and go from there.

[mnsharpshooter1984]

I would advise against tumbling loaded ammo. The vibratory action can break your powder down into a finer form increasing burn rate. I have seen this from many different sources as a big no no.

I use lanolin/ alcohol mix to lube all cases, pistol and rifle, even with carbide dies. It makes the sizing effortless.
Load them up.
Throw loaded rounds in a vibratory tumbler with corncob media and a little mineral spirits, cleans them right up in a few minutes.
Lab

[dragon813gt]

I would advise against tumbling loaded ammo. The vibratory action can break your powder down into a finer form increasing burn rate. I have seen this from many different sources as a big no no.

Bogus claim. All factory ammo is tumbled. While I wouldn't do it for days on end a few hours won't hurt it. There have been tests done on this, tumbled for days, w/ high magnification photos taken proving there is no degradation.

[country gent]

One other issue is 9mm chambers can be on the slightly large size and dies are on the smaller side requiring more force to size. I lube cases lightly even for carbide dies with straight walled pistol cases. Either Imperial sizing die wax or lanolin. Another diffrence between the 38 spl and 9mm / 40 are the pressures they operate at. expanding casees more or less depending on pressures.

[mnsharpshooter1984]

Bogus claim. All factory ammo is tumbled. While I wouldn't do it for days on end a few hours won't hurt it. There have been tests done on this, tumbled for days, w/ high magnification photos taken proving there is no degradation.
The more you know, incoming shooting star. I got scolded for tumbling loaded rounds in my early handloading days. I still won't do it.

I tumble range cases for an hour to clean, lube with my lanolin alcohol mix, dry, size/deprime, champfer/debur, flare, sonic clean for 30 min, tumble overnight in corn cob with a pinch of mineral spirits and NuFinish wax. After that I prime, powder, seat/crimp wearing gloves. Latex suck, hands get clammy but I found ultra thin polyester gloves with rubberized palms that work great. To each their own.

[mnsharpshooter1984]

Missed a step, with 40s&w I run all range cases through my redding bulge buster. I have a Glock so it's necessary. I straighten the case wall but I'm unsure if the strength remains compromised. I'm sitting on 4000 once fired cases so I haven't reloaded any more than once.

[EddieNFL]

I tried lubing pistol cases. Decided the benefits weren't worth the effort.


I got scolded for tumbling loaded rounds in my early handloading days. I still won't do it.

I have decades old manuals that warn against it. No mention in newer versions. Took a long time for the flat earth society to die out, too.

[skeettx]

Two Dillon 1050s (Mostly 9mm and 45 ACP)(Sometimes 38 Super, 9mm Largo, etc)
Two Stars (38 Special and 357 Mag)
Three Hornady Pro-jectors (Mostly 41, 44 and 45 Colt)
Tumble cases very clean
No lube, Carbide dies
Mike

[Brett Ross]

I use lee carbide dies. I do not own a glock but as most of the brass is range pickup so who knows. I did run the hundred or so boolit I had powder coated with no issues. The lubing works for me so will stick with it.
Tony

[wordsmith]

I use lanolin/ alcohol mix to lube all cases, pistol and rifle, even with carbide dies. It makes the sizing effortless.
Load them up.
Throw loaded rounds in a vibratory tumbler with corncob media and a little mineral spirits, cleans them right up in a few minutes.
Lab

+1. I have carbide dies, but found I got much smoother operation (specifically case release) using a tiny amount of lube. I spray my container (not the brass) with one full spray of 1:10 Lanolin / 99% alcohol and tumble brass around for a couple of minutes with 500 or so cases to spread the lube very thinly and evenly on the outside of the cases. I have successfully fired without tumbling with this method , but the 15 minute tumbled versions in walnut looked better, so of course they shot better :).

[tddeangelo]

OneShot is great at sticking cases IF you don't let it fully dry before running the cases. I've been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

If you give it a good 10 min or more to dry fully, it runs great. I don't lube my handgun cases (all carbide dies), but I exclusively use OneShot on my rifle rounds, 257 Roberts up to 300H&H, and no issues whatsoever.

[bhn22]

The issue of tumbling loaded ammo is indeed a myth. 9mm cases should be more difficult to size than 38 Spl. The 9mm operates at almost three times the chamber pressure of a 38 Spl, plus its a tapered case. Sloppy production chambers in most guns, most notably Glock, really bulge the cases. I personally don't lube pistol cases if I have carbide dies. If I have any issues with cases like 9mm, I'll size the cases on the single stage with the die set to cam over the press. That usually learns the cases a thing or three :).

[rockitrob]

I have a 650 and a 550. I have a swage unit I bought on Ebay for my 550 and I do 223 brass on this machine. I use a Dillon size decap die on stage one, swages in place of the primer, Dillon trimmer on the next stage and all done using WD-40 for lube. This works fine when you don't do heavy sizing and it cleans off fine in the tumbler if you don't coat to heavy. Just throw them in a coffee can and spray like Nancy Pelosi. [liberally] and run them through. After they are clean and sized, decapped and swagged and trimmed, I just put them in and load them dry. Tried doing it on the fly but having coated bullets makes a mess of the rifle once you start to shoot it. That wet inside causes carbon to stick to it.

[jmorris]

using WD-40 for lube

Not the lube I would pick.

[zomby woof]

9mm and 38 supercomp and get lubed and sized, then cleaned again. 45, 38 spl, 357 do not need lube for me.

[rockitrob]

Works fine for small calibers like 223 and cleans off in a tumbler in about 15 minutes. One shot takes about 2 hours to totally come off.

[gloob]

How I remove case lube:

Take a cake pan. Put two layers of paper towel in the pan to completely cover the bottom. Squirt some denatured alcohol into the pan, until the paper towel is completely saturated.

Drop a handful of cases in. Just enough to about cover the bottom of the pan in one layer.

Move the pan back n forth to make the cases roll on the paper for a few seconds.

Dump cases and add next handful.

I can delube 2-300 cases faster than it takes to tumble and separate and handle dirty media. A typical 2-300 case batch of 223 might take 5 minutes.

YMMV. I use Frankford Arsenal spray lube, and I'm not trying to completely degrease the cases. This quick roll in the pan removes the black rings left by the sizing die as well as 95% of the greasy feel. A little residual lube doesn't hurt anything.

[firebrick43]

Why delube? Lube has been proven to lessen or eliminate case head seperation in many bottle neck cartridges especially in semi auto military chambers!

[EddieNFL]

So does proper sizing.

[Doc Highwall]

Lube left on the cases increases bolt head thrust on the gun.

I use the Dillon spray lube that is alcohol and lanolin, you have to let the alcohol evaporate in order for it to work properly. After the cases have been sized I wash them with a squirt of dish detergent and rinse them off, followed by a quick tumble in a plastic strainer to get as much water off them before throwing them into the tumbler for about 20-30 minutes tops to dry them.The tumble media last a long time and is only used to dry cases that have been sized and washed.

[firebrick43]

So does proper sizing. you are quite right for the majority of guns, tight chambers on a bolt gun doesn't allow for head stretch w neck sized cases

However er some semi auto not full length sizing causes slam fires, failure to chamber and failure to lock up fully which can cause some really nasty problems.


Lube left on the cases increases bolt head thrust on the gun.
.

So your telling me you would rather place all that stress on brass, which has never been designed for anything more than transport and a gasket, than heat treated steel designed for the thrust? How you seen any modern gun damaged by excessive bolt thrust from sammi spec reloads? I have surely seen many of m1a reloads make it just 3or 4 loads before head stretch junks the round. Simply leaving case lube on the shell and changing nothing else allows 10+ reloads with no case head stretch when sectioned, they start failing for beat up rims.

Bolt thrust is accounted for in all designs, it needs no help from you. Worry more about blowing your gasket

[Doc Highwall]

I have full length sized LC Match brass for a National Match M-14 and loaded it 14-15 times before it was replaced. Proper set up of your sizing dies is a must and I have been using the Stoney Point since it first came out and is now branded under Hornady.

This is where full length sizing dies like Redding that have interchangeable neck bushings work great. When you change lots of cases and the necks are thicker or thinner you just change the bushing size. I have honed out the neck of a die but it only works if the cases have similar wall thickness.

[wrench man]

About as much ISDW as will get on a case rolled in your fingers every fourth or fifth shell will make carbide die run so smooth you'll look to see if you actually had a shell in there to size!
I bought a stuck case remover because of "One Shot", I use the remaining of it to lube the latch on my screen door.

[EddieNFL]

I have full length sized LC Match brass for a National Match M-14 and loaded it 14-15 times before it was replaced. Proper set up of your sizing dies is a must and I have been using the Stoney Point since it first came out and is now branded under Hornady.

I use different tools, but same results with ARs. I'd rather solve the problem that treat the symptom.

[HangFireW8]

On my old Hornady progressive I run a lubed case through every fifth case. I finger lube a bunch ahead and line them up and count. It also tells me when I'm 5 loads away from running out of primers.

I hand wipe each loaded round with a microfiber rag to remove lube. It also catches on any burrs, and gives me a chance to feel for high primers.

[rockitrob]

Lube would give carbon something to stick to. I will try the alcohol method of removing the lube. Thanks

[fredj338]

Not the lube I would pick.
Agree, It's not even really a lube but a rust preventative. Certainly better choices.
I use carbide dies, depending on the caliber I may squirt a bit of OneShot on them & mix with the rest of the brass cases ready to load. For rifle, I use what ever lube the job demands. 223 can get by with OneShot, 308 maybe, but I feel better with something else. Then just roll them around in a towel to remove any lube.

[fredj338]

The more you know, incoming shooting star. I got scolded for tumbling loaded rounds in my early handloading days. I still won't do it.

I tumble range cases for an hour to clean, lube with my lanolin alcohol mix, dry, size/deprime, champfer/debur, flare, sonic clean for 30 min, tumble overnight in corn cob with a pinch of mineral spirits and NuFinish wax. After that I prime, powder, seat/crimp wearing gloves. Latex suck, hands get clammy but I found ultra thin polyester gloves with rubberized palms that work great. To each their own.

Why would you chamfer & debur pistol cases?

[mnsharpshooter1984]

Why would you chamfer & debur pistol cases?
Just for my 300 blackout cases. If I don't they cut little rings of lead or jacket out of the bullets when seated which deteriorates accuracy. I don't trim my other straight walled pistol cases so no need to debur those.

[firebrick43]

I have full length sized LC Match brass for a National Match M-14 and loaded it 14-15 times before it was replaced. Proper set up of your sizing dies is a must and I have been using the Stoney Point since it first came out and is now branded under Hornady.

This is where full length sizing dies like Redding that have interchangeable neck bushings work great. When you change lots of cases and the necks are thicker or thinner you just change the bushing size. I have honed out the neck of a die but it only works if the cases have similar wall thickness.

Noticed I said "some". So do you have an m14 selectable fire or m1a semi auto only? But the "national match" means you have a tight chamber. Standard m14/m1a have very generous chambers that are hell on brass. Sizing for such chambers means it probably won't function on other 308 chambered guns.

EddieNFL. What chambers does your ar have? Standard, wylde, or match. Again very important although even military chambers in AR are not as hard on brass as a m1a

[Doc Highwall]

firebrick43, I had M-14 and now only have a Springfield Armory Super Match. Regardless what your chamber head space is, factory cases and ammo are manufactured to fit in all of them by virtue of SAAMI specifications for Maximum Cartridge and Minimum Chamber. After you fire either a factory cartridge or load a new case and fire it in YOUR gun, it is now up to you to measure the head space of the fired cases and set your sizing dies accordingly to minimum size them which will allow you to re-chamber them.

Having a bushing die like the Redding dies allows you to control the amount the shoulder is bumped back, and the bushing allows you to control neck tension in relation to neck wall thickness.

[boltaction308]

I use Dillon presses, both 550 and 650

For pistol I use a carbide die and do not lube

For rifle I use Dillon spray lube and then wipe the cases off after loading.

[rockitrob]

Hence the name WD [water displacement] Mostly only petroleum distillates. However if you need real lube for 223 and you are not using a small base die you have other problems. I get almost no squeeze at all. I know really it is never mentioned in the Lyman manual but then neither is powder coating.

[TES]

I can get tons of pre-primed new cases from the factory for the same price you re paying for once fired in brass.

[EddieNFL]

What chambers does your ar have? Standard, wylde, or match.

All of the above (only one Wylde, though). I have separate die sets for each rifle.

[firebrick43]

Doc and Eddie there are many people that reload and just as many reasons why they reload. I would dare to say few reload era have 3 different 223 dies for 3 different guns(not that it's wrong) I would also dare to say that the majority of those reloading on a progressive are not trying to wring out the the absolute best accuracy out of their guns but trying to get good accuracy at a resonable price for the higher volume shooting they do. (Again I am not saying some can and do get winning benchrest accuracy out of ammunition reloaded on a progressive)

Many of my shooting buddies and I demand function over anything else. I will not reload 308 that will not fit in another 308 I own. A m1a with an m14 barrel does NOT have sammi spec chambers(as many other military semi and full auto guns don't either). M14 chambers will swallow a 308 no go gage. Case lube solves problems with head stretch in these chambers.

There is nothing wrong with 308 match chambers in an m1a for shooting NRA high power or other paper killing activities but some of us demand function no matter what. Shoot a match chambered m1a with NATO spec ammo fast for ten to fifteen rounds and more than likely your gun will fail to feed. Same goes for an AR with a match chamber and spec ammo. AR's are already dust sensitive(I carried an a2 in for 5 years in the corps and in the desert of Kuwait/Iraq in 2003/04) and a match chambered gun would be unfunctional.

Case lube has no detriment (bolt thrust has been proven to be a moot point) and can help in certain situations to prolong case life, functioning (gun is unfunctional with a seperated case in the chamber)

[Doc Highwall]

firebrick43, years ago in the Dillon Blue Press there was a write up about a shooter taking a Dillon 550B press to a registered bench rest match and loaded his ammo on it for the match, this is while everyone else was using hand dies with a small arbor press. He stated that even though he did not win the match he did place in the top 10 if I recall correctly. Also the U.S. Palma team made up from the best long range shooters load their ammo on Dillon reloading machines.

Here is what results when the time is taken to analyze as to what is going on during the reloading process and solutions to prevent inaccuracy .

http://www.whiddengunworks.com/product/dillion-tool-heads/

[jmorris]

.4-.75 MOA @ 1000 yards isn't too shabby out of a progressive.

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek059.html

David Tubb loads on a 550 but uses a promeythous powder measure.

[EddieNFL]

My experience with ARs is limited to the past 40 years. Owned maybe four or five dozen over the years. Only have nine now. If your rifle fails to feed after less than a magazine of rapid fire, send to me. I can fix it.


M14 chambers will swallow a 308 no go gage. Case lube solves problems with head stretch in these chambers.

Again, I'd rather solve the problem; not treat the symptom.