Question about Lee

[3jimbo3]

Does anyone know why Lee don't recommend using Federal primers in their progressive (Pro 1000) presses? Has anyone ever used Federal primers in the Lee presses? I use CCI's but I picked up 1k Federals at a steal and would like to use them if it's safe.

[Moonie]

If you are going to use them use the blast shield. I had a chain detonation using them in my LoadMaster. In fact, after having that happen and the scar on my upper lip from it I do recommend the blast shield on it anyway, and you do use safety glasses when you reload, right?

[dudel]

I think the new Lee hand primer was redesigned to allow the use of the non CCI primers. IIRC, there is a sliding gate that closes behind the primer and is supposed to prevent a gang detonation.

You might check the instructions again. I seem to recall that you could use non CCI primers; but the suggested limit was 20 at a time vs 100.

[376Steyr]

Federals have a reputation for being more "sensitive" than other makes. Based on their packaging versus other brands, I tend to believe this.

[EDG]

Because Lee does not do enough engineering research and testing to ensure his products will work with all primers.
Everyone else to the best of my knowledge can make loading tools that work with Federal primers.
Lee didn't even have that limitation on his whack a mole tool that drives in the primer with a hammer.


Does anyone know why Lee don't recommend using Federal primers in their progressive (Pro 1000) presses? Has anyone ever used Federal primers in the Lee presses? I use CCI's but I picked up 1k Federals at a steal and would like to use them if it's safe.

[Casting_40S&W]

Went to Lee FAQ

http://leeprecision.net/support/images/PrimerRestrictions.pdf

Explicitly says, no Federal

I do not believe there is a blast shield for the P1k

[MT Chambers]

Lee had a spat with Fed. and now is trying to blackball them, which won't work because Fed. are some of the best primers out there. It started out with Lee blaming Fed. because of a design problem with Lee equip........it's all just sour grapes.

[RogerDat]

Chain fire is the issue, CCI are least likely to accidentally ignite and set off a chain fire of all the primers in the tube or hopper.

I think the current Lee Auto Prime hand held priming tool removes the primer brand restriction because the design provides some barrier between the current primer being set and the hopper. Not sure on that because I looked at them but don't own one.

The on the press Lee Auto prime does allow for other brands because the primer supply is not in contact with the primer being seated. No risk of a chain fire from the primer currently being set.

[Six Shooter Steve]

Because Lee does not do enough engineering research and testing to ensure his products will work with all primers.
Everyone else to the best of my knowledge can make loading tools that work with Federal primers.
Lee didn't even have that limitation on his whack a mole tool that drives in the primer with a hammer.

My dillon 650 also recommends that you not use federal primers for the detonation reasons. So it's not just a Lee problem.

[MacFan]

I run a Load Master with the blast shield installed. I load all my handgun loads with lg. pistol Federal Match primers. After loading thousand upon thousands of cartridges I have smashed a few primers but I've never had one go off. (knock on wood I guess)
For rifle cartridges I use any brand of primer and also have not had a problem.

[mdi]

RUMOR alert! [smilie=1: I read about this situation several years ago and it was tossed around quite a bit that Lee was in a pi$$ing match with Federal dealing with some marketing/advertising issues, so Lee included the "no Federal primers" warning...

Take it for what it's worth; internet information...

[max range]

Take the following with a grain of salt Gentlemen:
In the late 80's or early 90's? Federal began producing their primers in the large square boxes (trays) we are now familiar with. They were no compatible with Lee's hand primer nor the RCBS tool. Lee got wind of the packaging change and tried to persuade Fed from doing so because they would be awkward to load in the hand priming tray. The primer tray was larger than the priming tool tray.

Fed refused, Lee had to redesign his priming tool to accomodate the larger primer packaging. Remember the old round priming tool tray? Its long gone. That's what I was told. Who knows? I have used many thousands of Federal primers with a variety of priming methods and not one has detonated. Of any brand for that matter.

[3jimbo3]

This is some good information, something to think about. I will proceed but extremely cautious. Thanks for the input guys.

[cajun shooter]

Federal primers are the choice of many handloaders and has been mine for many years. I have used all brands as I started reloading in 1968 with a Lee 38 spl. hammer kit. It was called the hammer kit because you used a hammer along with the Lee tools to perform all the reloading steps. That included seating the primer and it relied on a spring to stop any primers from being detonated. It did not work to perfection and caused me to fall backwards more than once, checking my body for any fresh wounds.
So they have not always had safe equipment. I still have that original 38 loader.
I feel that Federal was acting upon the advise of their lawyers when they went to the large carton. They did not want to be involved in any law suits because of inferior packaging. I just can't believe that they took on this huge expense to cause Lee a problem. Take Care David

[c1skout]

I won't use Federal in my Pro 1000. I stick to CCI or prime off the press and then run them through with the primer punch backed out.

Federal has to use the large primer packaging to meet the DOT shipping regulations. All the other primer manufacturers can meet the regs with smaller containers because their primers are less likely to "gang fire". I grabbed this from another forum, someone there asked Federal about the package sizing.

Federal uses only basic lead styphnate. All other manufacturers use normal lead styphnate. The difference between the two forms is the pH (basic vs. neutral) at which the crystals are formed, the molecular makeup, and final crystal morph.

It is true that the Federal packaging is for DOT compliance. Specifically it is for the DOT-6C burn test compliance. All primer manufacturers use package spacing to comply with DOT sympathetic detonation requirements. Federal primers are known for being the best igniters in the industry. This is because they produce the highest level of hot particulate with the lowest gaseous overpressure, at the slowest rate.

Sincerely,
Federal Communications Team

[John Guedry]

During the first "primer crisis" I went through, in the 90's if I remember right Clinton in office. The only primers I could get were Federal and the priming tool I was using was the Lee round tray hand tool. I started off with only 10 or 20 primers in the tray at a time holding everything at arms length. Long story short no kabooms and 5k primers later everything still working.

[Charley]

Richard Lee covers it in the first edition of Modern Reloading. Says the same as the Federal boys, the difference between "basic" and "normal" lead styphnate. Says Federal primers are just as good as any other brand, but don't use them in the older Lee hand priming tool. The Pro-1000's priming system is similar. Said it wasn't a slam against Federal, just the way the different formulas could react. More fun to paint him as evil and hating Federal though...

[Artful]

Other primer issue to be cognoscente of is that some semi-auto's have floating firing pins that in the process of loading ammo into the chamber can give a hit to the cartridge primer before the hammer is lowered - and harder cup primers are recommended so that you don't get a slam fire.

I use Winchester and CCI myself for those sensitive firearms like Mini-14, SKS etc.

[Charley]

If you want to see slamfires, try a MAS 49/56 with pretty much any standard primer. CCI 34's are the only way to go with them, as far as I am concerned. Otherwise be prepared for between 40% to 70% slamfires.

[Hankster1962]

I have two Lee Automators, which is basically a conversion from a single stage to a Pro1000. I had several boxes of Federal small and large pistol primers that I wanted to use up. I was a bit leery at first but never had any issues with them. I would do it again. I always wear safety glasses, and I think everyone should.
I did have a buddy of mine who had one CCI primer go off while loading on a Lee loadmaster. He also had safety glasses on and it scared the daylights out of him. He thinks it may be because the primer went in sideways. Fortunately it did not set off a chain explosion.
Seating primers is all about paying attention and having the right feel for it. I know right away when something just does not feel right, and to stop exerting pressure. I normally do not purchase Federal primers just because of the their warning, but have to agree they are of excellent quality. Safe reloading

[Gunload Master]

This is straight from Lee Precision on this issue:

*********
"Lee Precision's recommendation is that you use CCI or Remington in the Pro1000. Other brands especially Federal, if set off for any reason the entire tray and trough of primers will explode simultaneously. The resultant explosion will shatter the primer tray, trough and cover into thousands of pieces and the pieces of plastic and primer anvils will be discharged with sufficient velocity to penetrate the user or persons near by. If a CCI and Remington brand primer is accidentally discharged they do not normally explode en mass rather a primer or two will explode damaging only the open trough."

-Lee Precision.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Whatever recommendations are made for or against using this brand or that, or loading gates that are supposed to prevent sympathetic explosions, or any other opinions....use protective lenses and even better use a full face shield such as used by(or should be) by lathe operators. Trust no one or anything. Your eyesight or face/parts are precious. A gentleman named Phil Sharpe once wrote, "If you're that much in a hurry then buy the damn stuff(ammo)'. Having 4 or 5 primers go ka boom on you is bad enough, but 50-100 is bad news. Older presses that used tubes of stacked primers were veritable hand grenades and dearly beloved Lee Loaders with their hammering cases down onto primers to prime them often got your attention and your underwear dirty with only one primer, so think seriously about what you are doing. Better safe than sorry. LLS