Blue dot and .40 S&W not working well

[coffeeguy]

The powder shortage is eating up a lot of my time due to having to work up loads with what's available instead of my usual go-to powders. I snagged a can of Blue Dot a couple of months ago which works great in .357 Magnum, and pretty well in .45 ACP

Last week I tried it for the first time with .40 S&W using the Lee 175 TC; Alliant's data recommends a max charge of 8.9 grains with a 180-grain bullet and I loaded some with 8.8 grains. So, they fired okay, ejected, chambered but the slide wouldn't go completely into battery 8 out of every 10 shots. Failure drills get old pretty quickly at that rate. I had some leftovers, same boolit type, with 5 grains of HP38 which worked flawlessly. The only 'wild cards' are that I was shooting out of a 3-inch barrel and that I'm powdercoating...The PC boolits worked fine with another powder, and I'm guessing that there just wasn't enough time for the pressure to peak with the shorty barrel with Blue Dot. Muzzle flash wasn't even that bad, in fact had quite a few grains of unburned powder on the bench in front of me.

I'd normally bump up the load that last .1 and cross my fingers, but it also burned really dirty and acted like it was less than a max loading; pulled a few and verified the charge was indeed 8.8. Personally, I'd just rather go with HP38/231 or what I know works...I've heard of others going with more than the published max load and curious about others' experience with this loading.

[kevmc]

I'm thinking Blue Dot is too slow for 40 SW.......

[coffeeguy]

I'm thinking Blue Dot is too slow for 40 SW.......

Yeah, it's really a shotgun powder which also has uses in rifle/pistol, mostly magnum cartridges with max or close-to-max loads. I've seen posts from others and it works for them, but don't recall details such as barrel length. Really it was just an exercise in curiosity for me. Now if it's all I had I could make it work but i'd rather spend my limited time going with what gives me better results.

[flounderman]

I loaded some Blue Dot 40s with 155s. I was trying for a reduced recoil load, but it took 10 grains to not catch the empty and it felt pretty snappy. 11 grains with the 155 was listed over 1200. The 10 grain load didn't leave any powder residue The man I was loading them for got robbed yesterday. Pawn shop, I think they thought the men bringing guns in were bringing them in to pawn them until it was too late.

[sandman228]

I loaded bluedot in 9mm for a few years . it was a load originally worked up by a fellow reloader for 9mm carbines but I liked it in handguns too but I eventually switched to red dot . I never did try it for 40 s&w though .if you can find any try herco in the 40 I load it gr under a 175 swc bullet . ive also had decent results with power pistol in the 40 they were pretty snappy though . I also keep some milder 40 loads on hand with hp38

[coffeeguy]

Thanks for the tips! Yeah, I like Power Pistol, but it makes a huge fireball! Polymer-frame guns add to the snappiness, but mine is also pretty top-heavy so I can re-index quickly. Haven't seen any Herco around here in a couple of years, never used it actually but it might turn out to be 'whatever's available' next.

[Bad Andy]

Never loaded Green Dot for 40, just used Bullseye and Unique and done just fine. Mot to hijack this thread but is there load data for Green Dot using a 175 GN cast lead Keith Style boolit?

[tazman]

+1 on the Herco for 40. I get great results with it.

Also WSF if you can find it.

[coffeeguy]

Never loaded Green Dot for 40, just used Bullseye and Unique and done just fine. Mot to hijack this thread but is there load data for Green Dot using a 175 GN cast lead Keith Style boolit?

Nothing 'official' that I know of, but if you do a search here for (no quotes) 'green dot 40 sw' you'll find some loads.

[dale2242]

I have shot thousands of Blue Dot loads in my XDM40 with the Lee 175TC boolit.
It works perfectly anywhere from 6.5-8.5 grs....dale

[Deadpool]

What about blue dot for a long barrel blowback carbine in 40s&w?

[Boolit_Head]

Blue Dot worked great in my 5 inch Glock 20 in 10mm with 180 grain. Even better in a 10 inch Contender much more velocity there. I'm betting there is not enough barrel to make good use of it.

[sandman228]

funny thing I never tried herco till about 3 or 4 yrs ago , I knew an old timer who swore by it for everything . there was a large local gun shop that got into trouble and had to close there doors they started marking things down there last sale everything in the store was 70% off by the time I got there most of the powder was picked over but I did happen across some herco still on the shelf I snagged 3 1 lbers for about 6$ each and a 4 lber for I think about 15$ and im glad I bought it .although I don't care for it much in 9mm or 45 acp ive used it in 38/357 mag loads , its great for 40 s&w , I use it for 35 rem lead bullet loads , ive even used it for 410 000 buck loads with decent results . im down to about 3/4 of the 4 pound jug left and your right I haven't seen it on any shelves or online anywhere for at least a couple years . but I have seen wsf online here and there and according to the adi powder equivalents chart wsf is pretty close to herco .if it were me I would try it . I just wish I could turn back time to that going out of business sale at the gunshop I remember seeing a pile or 8lb kegs of pb there 70% off at the time I never used it didn't know anything about it but now I do use and would have grabbed a few of them .

[lxk308]

I use 7.6 grs of Blue Dot under a Lyman 401638 -175 gr. cast bullet. I have had good results with this round in my Springfield XDM, not to mention in my HiPoint.
A few years ago I read an article in Handloader magazine on loading the 40 S&W and the author had the best accuracy, least spread with this combination of powder and bullet. So I decided to try his 40S&W load. I like it.

[Tar Heel]

I used BD once for revolver & pistol loads. Nuff said.

[coffeeguy]

I use 7.6 grs of Blue Dot under a Lyman 401638 -175 gr. cast bullet. I have had good results with this round in my Springfield XDM, not to mention in my HiPoint.

OK, so that'd be a 4.5-inch barrel, or the 3.8-inch barrel for the XDM compact? That tells me my barrel length (3 inches) is the problem, not enough pressure buildup and the load doesn't push the slide quite far back enough for it to go back into battery by itself...Kind of like a noob not racking the slide enough or riding it forward. Thanks to all for the input.

[AggieEE]

Have you tried Universal Clays? It works OK in my Sig 229 in 40. I haven't tried to do any accuracy development with it but burn rate similar to unique in the charts. It is very consistent in metering and seems to burn clean.

[coffeeguy]

Aggie...Not yet, no. I really think my limitation here is the barrel length in that particular pistol. I've got a few .40 loads which work well in it, with other powders. This was just one of those very rare instances where a max published load isn't quite enough; powder manufacturers often don't use multiple barrel lengths when working up load data and that's just the way it goes.

Good to know that Clays is a possible candidate for mine and I'll be sure to try it if the need arises!

[Tackleberry41]

I have used clays in the 40, but was looking to get a 180gr cast to remain subsonic out of a 10 in barrel. Tried several powders at min loads before 3gr of clays would do what I wanted. I know not a whole lot, but that barrel made everything go to fast.

Every book I have shows a blue dot load, but probably works best w something jacketed, more resistance to build up pressure.

[bdecker9]

Let me get home to my load data. I had some great bluedot loads for 40. If I don't forget

[bdecker9]

Just be careful, I had some Lee book loads that were way too hot even under max w 40 and BD. Got lucky and nothing broke, but was scared after examining the brass on a couple test fires.

[hd09]

I've been loading 7 grs. Blue Dot behind Lee's 175 with no problems in a Glock 27

[bdecker9]

Was just thinking, maybe load is too hot. I'm thinking, one of my book loads (start) was way too hot in 40. Your load sounds kinda hot iirc. Been a year since I've loaded any 40 tho.

[gpidaho]

I've had very good results using 7.5gr Blue Dot under 200gr plated bullets for the 40 S&W, this load was fired in a FN Browning High Power. I'm out of BD but would like to find more. GP

[376Steyr]

6.8 grains of Blue Dot under a 200 gr. cast RFN is the sweet spot for my Ruger SR40. Over 7 grains and it started kicking harder and accuracy fell off. 6.5 grains was softer shooting, but less accurate.

[Bonz]

Nothing but Hodgdon LongShot in my .40's ( powder is currently available at Powder Valley )

[Moonie]

If it ejects and picks up a new round but fails to go completely into battery that points to something other than the powder charge normally. All the rounds in question pass the plunk test?

[dougader]

You didn't say what primers you're using. IMO, a standard spp works best with BD. I also wouldn't start with a near max load like that.

Were your 231 loads using the same powder coated bullets? Just wondering if the diameter of the bullets in your BD loads is larger than the others and causing a failure to completely chamber your handloads.

[geargnasher]

I have shot thousands of Blue Dot loads in my XDM40 with the Lee 175TC boolit.
It works perfectly anywhere from 6.5-8.5 grs....dale

Ditto. Must use a soft lube, though, or it will gum the chamber front end and cause battery failures. I don't know why the PC didn't work with it.

Gear

[Deadpool]

I just PC'd a bunch of 40.. finally excited to load them up. Did the wet method. I have a theory that after wet method but before baking, they can be coated again with the dry method even better than regular dry, and probably without the airsoft BBs.

[Bullwolf]

I haven't checked my cast 40 S&W Blue Dot load with the chronograph yet... But I have measured some 40 S&W JHP hand loads using Blue Dot. Here was the resulting data.

Firearm used was a full size CZ 75B chambered in .40 S&W
Load was 8.4 grains of Blue Dot, using a 175 grain JHP.

FPS
------
1069
1027
1063
1073
1030
1030
1038
1020
1019
1045
1035
992
1006
1075
1068
1036
1005
1065
1040
1059
1007
1017
991
1008
1005
991
1071
1027
1052
1019
1034
1039
1048
------
Average FPS = 1033
Standard Deviation = 25

Blue Dot burned well (clean) for me in 40. My cartridges all fed and functioned fine. I like Blue Dot in the 40 S&W, as long as you don't mind the correspondingly higher powder charges, vs using faster burning pistol powders. You won't accidentally double charge a 40 S&W case using Blue Dot without noticing it, or cleaning up overflowed powder.

My default 40 S&W cast load however uses 4.8 grains of Unique, and a Lee 401-175-SWC boolit. Unique goes almost twice as far as Blue Dot per lb in the 40 Smith cartridge IF you are lucky enough to find any.

(1400-1500 rounds per lb for Unique, vs 780-850 per lb for Blue Dot)

4.5 to 5.0 grains of Unique will do close to the same thing, with a 175 grain cast lead boolit, and a few less FPS in the 40 S&W - while using less powder.


- Bullwolf

[Bongo Boy]

Clays, Nitro 100, Solo 1000...with Nitro 100 being quite possibly the best all-around I think. I've done 155 cast, 180 Montana JHP (absolutely phenomenal), 180 truncated cone (cast and plated), 185 gr hollow point (MP Molds), and 180 grain flat point (Accurate Molds). All seem to do very well with Nitro 100 and that powder is probably going to show up on the virtual shelf long before something like Bullseye does. I might suggest AA2, but a) you're never going to find it, and b) I don't care for it because it won't stay in the cases when the shellplate rotates (flies all over the place like vodka in a Martini glass on a fishing boat).

You can actually go down below 3.0gr of Nitro 100 with a 180 gr cast bullet in 40SW and just have a butt-gusting laugh averaging abut 750 fps. I also show 3.0gr of Clays, Nitro 100 and Solo 100 under a 180 gr truncated cone (Lee), but my notes say I preferred Clays in this loading over the other 2. I think that was a 'feel' thing. My notes also have 4.5gr Solo 1000 making "900-950" fps with a 180, but it isn't clear that I actually chrono'ed that or was pulling the numbers from thin air. I also have 4.0gr of that same powder doing "825-875" fps with the same bullet. As I recall lots of folks over at the Enos forum were loading Solo in 9 and 40 and seems to like it because of low smoke. I don't recall it having a big edge over Clays, but folks seemed to think clays and lead bullets were too smoky for real fast shooting. I'm not that fast.

For more 'realistic' loads, I always liked 4756...but good luck getting that, too. It's an ultra-low flash powder with reasonably good velocities at lower-than-average pressures. Very nice stuff I thought.

There are 2 shotgun powders I have on the shelf that I have yet to use, but I expect they will perform very nicely in 40SW and you might actually find them--E3 and Steel. I think they are both Alliant shotgun powders, and I'd bet they will both load up about like Clays or Solo 1000. Actually I only have E3 on hand...Steel was one I had planned on buying up but then things went to...

[saleen322]

Blue Dot works great in 10mm. In the 40, it would probably work for the heavier bullets but it is pretty slow for a case that size especially with lighter bullets.

[JRR]

I'm loading 6.8 gr. of bluedot under the 180 gr. RCBS round flat point. In my CZ75B SA, I can place 2 mags (20) rounds into a 6" black at 25 yards. The recoil is mild and it still ejects the cases about 10 ft. to the right and slightly behind me. Overall length is 1.135".
Jeff

[leeggen]

I have been using 6.5 to 7.5 (7.5 feels a little hot to me,7is good) of bluedot and a desent crimp on the tl401-175tc. That is from my PX4 40S&W with 4in barrel. crimp is about .040 back from the front ring.
CD

[coffeeguy]

Sorry this took so long, been rather busy and I just haven't had time to go back to the range. It was just that particular gun, barrel was too short and the boolit didn't stay in the bore long enough to build sufficient pressure to cycle properly... Tried the same load of a 4-inch barrel and they worked flawlessly. Someone asked about the plunk test; yes they passed; kept the same adjustments on my dies and switched to Bullseye, worked like a charm...I guess this gun with the shorty barrel just doesn't like Blue Dot. Lesson learned!