lead bullets atomizing?

[medic302]

hey guys, is there any truth to this? it seems like unlikely to me, and I sure would think that the lead in the primers would create most lead in indoor ranges.
thanks

[JSnover]

Neither are worth worrying about, unless you work at an indoor range... Maybe.

[geargnasher]

If your bullets don't obturate (seal) the bore, gas cutting can and will occur and atomize the lead. I've had it happen to me with some high-end rifle loads, resulting in plated flash hiders, Magneto Speed chrony sensor, suppressors, etc. However, you are correct that primers is where most of the airborne lead hazard comes from. Under normal circumstances, with a proper balance of fit, alloy, and load, a cast bullet won't shed any metal at all.

Gear

[MtGun44]

Some dust can get into the air if you are shooting on steel plates. The primary
problem is NOT airborne, but finger-borne lead. Do not eat, drink or smoke
at an indoor range. Wash your hands well before you eat, drink or smoke
after being at a range.

[runfiverun]

You can avoid some of the lead from the primer issue by using federal primers instead of Winchester.

[303Guy]

Rally? I've just gone done bought some Winchester primers be cause they are out of Federal and Winchester is supposed to have the same power as Federal. Well, I'll just have to take precautions.

[Green Frog]

While "atomizing" is not the proper word, there have been cases where a cast lead bullet has "disappeared" into a "puff of smoke" in flight. This was verified on the range of the late Charlie Dell when he and some friends of his from Italy were trying to see how fast they could make a lead rifle bullet go. They fired a few rounds off the bench through Charlie's wind tunnel (poly canvas over a wire frame) and at the target 100 yds downrange, the bullets were seemingly missing the paper. Then they walked down along the outside of the tunnel and could see where part way down there was a shredded area in the covering where apparently the bullets just came apart in flight. Charlie attributed it to too fast spin, and that's as good an explanation as any, but they quit the project soon after. I didn't observe the events described personally but was there a couple of weeks later to hear Charlie fussing and complaining about the damage done to his wind tunnel. FWIW, I don't think any indoor range I ever heard of would allow the firing of such hypervelocity bullets toward its backstop. The potential for damage there would be way too great. :evil:

BTW, I've seen mention of jacketed bullets coming apart under similar overdriven conditions, but have no specific data I can cite. Again, no sane indoor range owner would allow this kind of ammo being shot at his backstop. :???:

As for indoor lead dust, if the traps are kept clean and the air filtration system is working as it should, I can't imagine that the lead and lead compounds in bullets or primers would build up sufficiently to be a concern. At least I hope not, since I love to shoot indoors when it gets too cold outside in VA! :Fire:

Froggie

[medic302]

hey thanks guys, that's pretty much what I was thinking but i wanted to ask.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

There are three main ways lead can get into the air. What Frog describes is a bullet breaking up under the combination of centrifugal force and heat. The pieces won't be anywhere near atomized, especially if they are seen to fly off at an angle and damage anything. I suppose if left to weather in an outdoor range they could oxidize and render the dust underfoot dangerous to handle.

Another way is if a bullet becomes hot enough to spray lead in its path to the target. This most commonly happens when it leaks from the exposed base or nose of lead in a jacketed bullet, and you can see distinctive spiral trails on a target card. Most typically it won't start spraying until the bullet has left the muzzle. There are two reasons for this. It takes time for heat to travel through a hard metal jacket, and pressure is stopping anything coming out of the base. It may show not at all near the muzzle, then on a card at ten yards or so, but have died away by the time the bullet reaches the target. The shooter is left seeking an explanation, of which this is not the most obvious, for inaccuracy which may be anything from slight to extreme. I don't think this is a great contributor of airborne lead either, since it happens only occasionally, mostly to rifles, and people constantly hunt for and identify it for reasons of accuracy.

The one I think most likely to cause problems is lead sprayed as geargnasher describes, by gas blowing past the bullet. This gas is much hotter than the heat which can sink through a gilding metal jacket, or you would see the jacket melt. Remember that in high speed photographs we often see a puff of gas before the bullet emerges from the muzzle, with jacketed bullets for which the manufacturers have mostly got the diameter right. The bullet needs to fit the grooves very closely, or be soft enough to expand to fit them under the first impact of gas.

It is a bit irresponsible to use an undersized bullet in search of mere velocity, except perhaps on the most meticulously ventilated range. Shooters are an independent minded bunch, though, and I don't see any means of policing this, unless they do so themselves, as individuals.

[1Shirt]

Have some one shoot a lead tip 45 gr hornet bullet out of a 22-250 at about 3500 or better, and stand behind him and watch down range. You will usually see the puff of gray smoke as the bullet comes apart at between 25 and 50 yds. Saw this done well over 50 years ago.
1Shirt!

[plainsman456]

I can do that with any of the cheap varmint bullets in my 22-250 AI with a 1in9 twist.

I have to use a stout bullet to hit the target or a heavier one.

[flyingrhino]

While "atomizing" is not the proper word, there have been cases where a cast lead bullet has "disappeared" into a "puff of smoke" in flight. This was verified on the range of the late Charlie Dell when he and some friends of his from Italy were trying to see how fast they could make a lead rifle bullet go. They fired a few rounds off the bench through Charlie's wind tunnel (poly canvas over a wire frame) and at the target 100 yds downrange, the bullets were seemingly missing the paper. Then they walked down along the outside of the tunnel and could see where part way down there was a shredded area in the covering where apparently the bullets just came apart in flight. Charlie attributed it to too fast spin, and that's as good an explanation as any, but they quit the project soon after. I didn't observe the events described personally but was there a couple of weeks later to hear Charlie fussing and complaining about the damage done to his wind tunnel. FWIW, I don't think any indoor range I ever heard of would allow the firing of such hypervelocity bullets toward its backstop. The potential for damage there would be way too great. :evil:

BTW, I've seen mention of jacketed bullets coming apart under similar overdriven conditions, but have no specific data I can cite. Again, no sane indoor range owner would allow this kind of ammo being shot at his backstop. :???:

As for indoor lead dust, if the traps are kept clean and the air filtration system is working as it should, I can't imagine that the lead and lead compounds in bullets or primers would build up sufficiently to be a concern. At least I hope not, since I love to shoot indoors when it gets too cold outside in VA! :Fire:

Froggie

In my beginning hi-power competition days I would sometimes have a 223 "disappear" in a puff of dust. I was pushing the velocity in a 9 twist barrel for the 600 yard matches. What happened is there was a puff of dust kicked up about 10 yards from the muzzle as the jacket was shed. The lead core never made it to the target. At that stage in my shooting career I had no knowledge of bullet stability or bullet weights and velocity vs. barrel twist rates.