8mm jacketed bullets in my M 44 Mosin Nagant "SORTA"

[littlejack]

Hey members:
I thought I would bring this up and find out if any one else has tried it.
Always being on the lookout for other options and components to load and shoot, I began again to size down some of my jacketed
8mm bullets to shoot in my Mosin Nagant. I done some of this R&D early last year or late the year before.
Groups were not good enough with that particular bullet to continue.
This last week, I began with three different bullet designs. One was a Herters 180 grain rn. Another was a Herters 180 grain semi-
pointed, and the third was a 200 grain rnfp, make unknown. I bought all of these bullets from other members here, at different times.
I sized the bullets with the LEE .314 push through sizer. The groove diameter in my rifle is .313.
Well, just this last Thursday, I went to the gun club to try them out. The first two, the Herters 180 grain rn, and the Herters 180 grain semi-pointed did no shoot well at all. But, the 200 grain rnfp shot exceptionally well.
I started at 50 yards, and the five shot group measured .680 center to center.
Then at 100 yards, the five shot group measured 1.2", with the first three shots measuring .560 center to center. Wow, EH?

I am in the process of getting a smaller push through die to size the bullets down a little further, and see how they shoot. I am going to size them to .312 or .313 and test again.
Any one else have any experience with sizing jacketed bullets down and if so, what were your results.
Jack

[leebuilder]

Hi Jack. Been thinking of going down that road too. I would make some odd size push through dies to suit each rifle, maybe even using 8mm cast to get the over size boolit, Mosins are all over the place compared to 303s.

Just and comment what powder are you using? I find the preformance i get out of a round depends on the barrel lenght and powder, ie my 91s and 91/30s group with slower powders and the same round wont in my 44 and cut down 91/30s but will group with a faster powder with the excact same boolit or bullit. Simillar results with some factory and surplus ammo in that some will group consistantly in a longer barreled rifle and not in a cut down rifle, steel cored ammo being the best in all.
My most consistantly grouping ammo has all been flat base

[LAGS]

I too have played around with re-sizing J bullets to fit another rifle.
But mostly I resized the .311 and .310 Mil Surp bullets that I pulled out of Steel case 7.62x54 to shot them in Blasting Rounds in my .308 's and 30-06's.
I would then load the steel cases with Cast Boolits that were sized to fit he bore on any perticular rifle.
The salvaged powder was saved in lots per the Headstamp, and reused in the 7.62x54's in reloadable cases, or I worked up loads to use it in the .308 and -06
I found that most of the incansistancy in the Mil Surp ammo was from the bullets not fitting the bore, inconsistant powder charges or Old weak Primers.
But the primers still work great for faster burning powders and cast boolits.
And since the cases are Steel, and Berdan primed, I didnt have to save them for reloading.
But your Idea to downsize 8mm's is great, But, I have so many 8mm's that I don't want to give up any new components and leave me short for other rifles.
I would rather Cast Boolits to keep me shooting, when I cant find what I need all the time.

[littlejack]

Hey fellas:
Thanks for your replies.
Good to hear that I am not the only one who strays away from the norm once in a while. I guess that is how new items and techniques come about.
Lee, I use a good dose of IMR 4064 for my 7.62x54 loads. With the M44 having a short 20" tube, I decided that it would be the best to start with. I does work very well. Varget is another popular powder for the 7.63x54, but I haven't tried it.
My go to load is with that same powder, and a Hornaday .312 spire point. Those group into a ping-pong ball at 100 yards if I do my part. I have clocked them at 2800+ a little with that short barrel.
I probably will try some IMR 4350 under the heavy 200 grain rnfp, and see how they shoot.

LAGS:
I haven't tried the two 180 grain bullets in my 8-06 AI that I mentioned. I still have those to fire for effect.
My go to load for the 8mm is a Hornaday 195 grain bullet, and a good dose of IMR 4064. I have clocked those at 2800+ a little.
The reason I sized down the 200 grain rnfp to fit the Mosin, is that they would not shoot well in the 8mm. So, now I have another bullet that looks very promising in the M 44.
I understand your not wanting to use good shooting jacketed bullets in your 8mm's, to size down to try in your Mosins.
I wouldn't either.
Jack

[LAGS]

@ Littlejack.
This is a Cast Bullet site, and I would hope that we can talk you into trying to shoot, or even start casting your own boolits to fit your rifles.
I would think, as I do, your questions are welcome about Jacketed Bullets, but I think you have found a site, where many of the issues that you are having with the "J " Bullets can be solved, by going to cast boolits, as well as finding projectiles of the weight and bore diameter or making them availabe for you to shoot what and when you want to.
I have a Bunch of mosins, and for the amount of shooting that I do, and the varried Bore sizes and barrel lengths, the cast Boolits is the way to go for 90% of my shooting, even Long Range and hunting.
A Tip,
Heavier is not always better in the shorter barreled M-44's or 53's

[littlejack]

I tried shooting cast in my MN. Didn't really do a whole lot for me. I like shooting jacketed full tilt in that rifle and seeing what I can accomplish with it. Not having any issues with the jacketed, just doing the R&D and enjoying the hobby.
As for the heavier bullets, remember, I stated that the 8mm 200 grain rnfp would not shoot well in my 8-06 AI. So I now have a way to use them with very good accuracy.
I sold my molds that I cast boolits with for the Mosin, probably will not be going back to cast in that rifle.

[texassako]

I size down 170 gr 30 caliber rn bullets to .300" for use in 7.35 Carcanos. Discovered that trick after buying a large lot of them here. They shoot a lot better for me than the short Hornady bullet, and are close to the milsurp bullet size and shape. Weight is heavier though since the original ammo has aluminum in the nose under the fmj. A couple of mine just don't have bores good enough for the hassle of loading cast since the chambers are so tight you have to turn necks to get a cast bullet in there.

[littlejack]

Thank you texas for your input. I'll bet hat hasn't been tried by a lot of other 7.35 users.
That is good information.
Jack

[littlejack]

Update:
I purchased a LEE .311 push through sizer a few days ago from one of the other members here.
I chucked it up in the lathe, and honed it out to .3127. I pushed a lead boolit through the lapped out die, and that is how I
got the .3127 diameter.
As stated in my first post, the slugged diameter of my MN is .313.
I sized one of the jacketed .323 rnfp bullets in the lapped out sizer. The measurement was .3135. There apparently is
about .001 spring back in the jacket after being pushed through the sizer.
I loaded 15 of the newly sized bullets this weekend, and today I headed to the range.
I shot 5 shot groups at 100 yards.
First group was outstanding. 4 shots in 9/16" and one shot out to 1 1/4". I hate it when that happens. Well maybe next
time they will all be in one little ragged hole.
I decided to make a scope adjustment. There is probably some slack in the scope after adjusting, as the groups opened
up some. I have a Leupold 2x7 Rifleman scope on this rifle.
The second group ran 4 shots in 1 1/16" and one out to 1 1/4". Still, that is very good in my opinion for what I am
shooting; a Mosin Nagant with a 20" barrel, and sized down .323 jacketed bullets.
The third and last group, I shot was with one grain more powder in the load. There were 4 shots in a horizontal line at
1 1/4", and one shot opening the group up 1 9/16". Still, not bad at all.
Going to keep working on the powder weight charge, and find the sweet spot for these bullets. Even though I believe I am
really close.
NOTE:
With my first testing in my original post, I found that the Sellier & Bellot brass was cratering the primers. The PPU brass
did not, with the same load.
After weighing the brass, I found that the Sellier & Bellot brass weighed 18 grains more that the PPU brass.
The apparent thicker walls from the heavier S&B brass did shoot at a higher pressure.
With the second testing today, I used NNY brass, and there were not any signs of excessive pressure.
Jack