sizing boolits, any advice?

[Indiana shooter]

I am slowly working my way up in the casting world with a new sizer. I understand that, to help prevent leading, you want to size your boolits smaller than your cylinder and larger than your bore.

Okay, so here's what I have. My SBH 44 mag's cylinder slugs between .4315 and .4325 and my bore slugs at .4295. I'm thinking about sizing my boolits at .431. Does that sound about right? As of right now I have been shooting unsized boolits that cast about .433ish and have to clean my cylinder out about every 50-75 rounds as well as the first inch or so of my barrel. Any advice or experience would be appreciated, thanks.

[NC_JEFF]

I'd be happy with that diameter in a 429.5 barrel. I hear a lot of Blawkhawks may bulge slightly where the barrel is threaded to the frame, do you know if yours is OK? If it is, your set.

JD

[Tatume]

There's a fair amount of argument about the fine points of fitting the cylinder. Some say the bullet must be slightly smaller than the cylinder throats, but not more than 0.0005" smaller. Others say it can be anywhere from 0.0005" smaller to 0.001" (or sometimes more) larger. People then argue that the larger bullets are sized smaller upon firing (true), and that one must size slightly smaller before loading to prevent this from happening. Pragmatists then counter that if no discernible difference in accuracy results, why bother; the larger bullet can be fired in multiple guns satisfactorily.

My experience is: shoot what you have. If it is not accurate, find out why and fix it. If it is accurate, continue shooting and don't worry about the nuances of fit.

Try either the 0.431" or the 0.432" sizer. In the end, only accuracy counts. One or other should work well, and I suspect either will allow for 1.5" 25 yard groups. But only if you shoot enough!

[gwpercle]

Sounds like a good place to start .431 is where I would try first.
Good luck, Gary

[Shuz]

Start with .431 and see what happens. I shoot Bhn 11, .431 boolits thru .4285 throats in many of my Smiths, and as long as I use 2400 or WC 820 or H-110/296, I see absolutely no leading and great accuracy. Faster powders like Green Dot, or Unique, show minor leading in the forcing cone with boolits at .431, but after a shooting session with these powders, it is easily removed by shooting 5 rounds of gaqs checked bullets stoked with 18g of 2400 or 20g of WC820. YMMV.

[DougGuy]

Ok some basics... The boolit should go into your throats from the front with finger pressure. If you have uneven throats, which is very common with how Ruger gang reamed cylinders, two things are apparent. First, you cannot size the larger throats down so the best thing to do is size all the throats to match the largest one(s) and then size your boolits .0005" smaller than that. Your throats will then be nice and round, and even with one another. Second, it is important that they all be the same size as this affects pressure in the cylinder which affects point of impact.

I have seen quite a few SBH revolvers that have a bulge right where the barrel and the front of the frame meet. Once you fire a boolit and it enters the bore, it is sized by the bore and when it gets to the bulged portion, burning powder gas can escape around the sides of the boolit which will cause lead to melt off and deposit itself in the bore at this bulge. Pretty typical, but not the worst thing that can happen, and with the pressure the 44 mag operates with, if the boolit isn't super hard, it will still seal in the bore after it passes the bulge.

Having tight or uneven cylinder throats is easy to fix, having them reamed to .4325" will let you size to .432" which is quite a common size for cast boolits in the SBH. I think you may be a little more accurate than shooting .431" boolits through uneven throats just because they will fit in the throats.

In a perfect world, a revolver's dimensions should read like a funnel. All the larger dimensions at the rear of the cartridge, and getting incrementally smaller as the boolit travels toward the muzzle. A revolver with boolits .001" to .002" above bore (groove) diameter, with cylinder throats sized .0005" to .001" greater than boolit diameter meets this criteria. Bottom line, the cylinder needs to have the throats sized to accommodate the boolit you want to use, not the other way around.

[leadman]

Do slug your barrel and determine if it does have a constriction at the barrel threads. If it does it can be fire-lapped to remove it.
After this is done remeasure the throats since they will also be opened by fire-lapping.
I always size to the cylinder throats. The best condition is the cylinder throats are .001" larger than the barrel so the boolit is sized down as it proceeds forward.
You did not post what you are using for lube but I can recommend Carnuba Red or LBT Blue soft. Both of these have worked for me to 3,000 fps. For full power 44 mag loads a bhn of around 15 to 18 should work well.

[Indiana shooter]

Great info so far keep it coming.

Prior to slugging the barrel I have shot countless 200 and 240 gr xtp's loaded near max. As well as a couple thousand 225 gr coated bullets from the lgs. If there was/is a bulge I didn't feel it when I slugged the barrel.

Leadman, I have been using the 45/45/10 tumble lube mix. I have just started pan lubing and thought I'll try my hand at making some lube using recipes I found here. I just finished lubing 100 boolits with a 50/50 mix of paraffin and petroleum jelly with 2 tablespoons of stp oil treatment and I threw in a bit of johnson wax. Yesterday I lubed 100 with a 50/25/25 paraffin, jpw, and beeswax. Only time will tell which will be best.

[44man]

.431 should work fine.
It is best if all throats are the same and you can lap the small ones with a slotted rod just like doing a Lee size die. Use a boolit the size of the largest throat to get your fit on the rest by feeling the fit after a little lapping. Clean after a little lapping and try the boolit. That does even out pressures however I have found you do not need a boolit a tight fit to throats. You can still use .431 because of the groove size of .4295".
Yeah, yeah I know but my throats are .4324 and a groove at .430"131655
This is a .431" boolit at 200 yards! I have no problems even with .430" boolits. Smaller does suck. .432" shoots good but anything over does not. I have boolits and dies to size from .430" to .434" and if I go over .432", accuracy drops.
When I shot those for a drop test, my bore was not cleaned in 2 years and the cases were fired 40X. When the cylinders get sticky I clean and lube the pin and ratchet with STP. Chambers just have carbon.
.0005" under throats is best but anything over .001" over groove brings in other problems too.
BFRs have almost perfect fits like my .475 that has .4765" throats and .475" groove so a .476 boolit is where it is at.
Lube is so important, stay away from slippery. Lanolin is a great help in any lube and Felix lube works best for me, then LBT soft blue. The right lube can cut groups in half or more. CR does OK but is still a little too hard for a revolver. LBT hard blue about the same. Alox sucks but if mixed with beeswax and some lanolin added, it will work. I never got a decent group with any TL. I made a thousand lube tests over many years and here is one. 131656LBT hard on the left and Felix on the right at 50 yards. I have a hard time seeing some of the slop put together and claims made because all that is looked at is to prevent leading. How about no leading and accuracy together? I am crazy to tell you the slop you put on a boolit is half the game but when I read TL, I cringe.
I use Felix on rifle boolits too. 131659Three shots at 100 yards from a 30-30 marlin. Just over 1900 fps.
Felix was a long distance friend I talked with many times and we lost one of the best. I have a tear and a prayer for him every time I lube. Many new fellas will never know his contributions to our sport.
Many things keep going on and on when a revolver just needs a little change and is easy.

[MBTcustom]

.431 should work fine.
It is best if all throats are the same and you can lap the small ones with a slotted rod just like doing a Lee size die. Use a boolit the size of the largest throat to get your fit on the rest by feeling the fit after a little lapping. Clean after a little lapping and try the boolit. That does even out pressures however I have found you do not need a boolit a tight fit to throats. You can still use .431 because of the groove size of .4295".
Yeah, yeah I know but my throats are .4324 and a groove at .430"131655
This is a .431" boolit at 200 yards! I have no problems even with .430" boolits. Smaller does suck. .432" shoots good but anything over does not. I have boolits and dies to size from .430" to .434" and if I go over .432", accuracy drops.
When I shot those for a drop test, my bore was not cleaned in 2 years and the cases were fired 40X. When the cylinders get sticky I clean and lube the pin and ratchet with STP. Chambers just have carbon.
.0005" under throats is best but anything over .001" over groove brings in other problems too.
BFRs have almost perfect fits like my .475 that has .4765" throats and .475" groove so a .476 boolit is where it is at.
Lube is so important, stay away from slippery. Lanolin is a great help in any lube and Felix lube works best for me, then LBT soft blue. The right lube can cut groups in half or more. CR does OK but is still a little too hard for a revolver. LBT hard blue about the same. Alox sucks but if mixed with beeswax and some lanolin added, it will work. I never got a decent group with any TL. I made a thousand lube tests over many years and here is one. 131656LBT hard on the left and Felix on the right at 50 yards. I have a hard time seeing some of the slop put together and claims made because all that is looked at is to prevent leading. How about no leading and accuracy together? I am crazy to tell you the slop you put on a boolit is half the game but when I read TL, I cringe.
I use Felix on rifle boolits too. 131659Three shots at 100 yards from a 30-30 marlin. Just over 1900 fps.
Felix was a long distance friend I talked with many times and we lost one of the best. I have a tear and a prayer for him every time I lube. Many new fellas will never know his contributions to our sport.
Many things keep going on and on when a revolver just needs a little change and is easy.

And that is about as good as it gets.
Thank you 44Man. Your shooting borders on the unbelievable, and gives people like me something to strive for. When I finally get my own range built, I intend to invest the time and learn to duplicate some semblance if what you show here.
Thank you sir.

To everybody else: Its never a mistake to listen to the guy who posts the jaw dropping groups.


(PS, I have not used FWFL since Felix passed. I recommend it, and I have passed out samples, but it's just too hard to use it now. What a loss.)

[44man]

Goodsteel, I hope Felix can hear us but I appreciate your feelings about him, thank you.
Yet you do miss something, I am not as good a shot as many.
Get to the nitty gritty of it. If you can't shoot, nothing will shoot no matter but if you can poor loads are a waste.
I am going to be a hard case again and say if you are a poor shooter, you will never be able to test one thing against another. If you shoot 4" groups at 25 will you see a lube change? A primer change?
Of course you need to be able at the start. Sorry as heck but if you are not a good shot you will never find what shoots and if you are a good shot you must load better to shoot .

[MBTcustom]

Goodsteel, I hope Felix can hear us but I appreciate your feelings about him, thank you.
Yet you do miss something, I am not as good a shot as many.
Get to the nitty gritty of it. If you can't shoot, nothing will shoot no matter but if you can poor loads are a waste.
I am going to be a hard case again and say if you are a poor shooter, you will never be able to test one thing against another. If you shoot 4" groups at 25 will you see a lube change? A primer change?
Of course you need to be able at the start. Sorry as heck but if you are not a good shot you will never find what shoots and if you are a good shot you must load better to shoot .

The fact is, you post your groups here, and this "many" you mention, do not. Regardless of what anyone else does, that takes nothing from the fact that you are an exceptional shot with a magnum handgun, and you tell people how you do it, what can be done, and what it takes to get there.
The fact that you don't mince words nor sugar coat them is not a bad thing. You know as well as I do that the targets are much less diplomatic about telling you that you cant shoot worth beans than anything you write here.
Thank you.