Would you buy opened powder?

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Local pawn shop has around 10 1 lb bottles of opened powder pistol/shotgun and rifle, all felt mostly full, $8 each. No cans, all plastic bottles. None smelled off or had any other signs of deterioration.


The rest of the story:

I passed on the powders. I knew opened containers presented a potential hazard. I only currently use one of the powders (Power Pistol) which does not have a particularly unique appearence. There was also a bottle of Blue Dot, Clays, Lil-Gun, Ramshot (maybe Enforcer?), a few Alliant rifle powders, and a few more I don't recall. None of the powders were obviously mixed (flake and ball etc). While I don't think the guy that runs the gun counter would be stupid enough to mix powders, the pawnshop itself is on the shady side of town and is not what you would call well organized. They were recently shut down for a few days by the fire marshall, until they could get everything picked up off the floor so the aisles would be passable. I do have a chrono and may consider 4 lbs+ of something I use a lot of such as Red Dot that I could work up a load for and use for some time. Thank you for all the replies.

[white eagle]

as long as it was all the same and looked in decent shape
Grab it

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Ehhh, from a pawn shop....no. If someone was selling them that actually did the reloading...maybe. You never know what those pawn shop guys did...if they mixed powders to get them all to about the same level so they could sell them all for the same price??? There may have been 15 partial cans that they condensed into 10. After all, it's all just gunpowder, right? LOL!

Side note: You say the cans felt mostly full...well. with a lot of powders if the can is mostly full, it is well over 1#. Be careful.

[starnbar]

No matter how you look at it its a gamble if you have a way to get the powder checked as to the contents in the can match the name on the can you are in luck.

[C. Latch]

I would and I have. Obviously, you need to do some testing to be sure it's what you think it is before you start using it in full-pressure loads, but, yes, I would buy it in a heartbeat.

[runfiverun]

If I was super familiar with the powder and I could identify it by sight. and it jived with the bottle and there was a few pounds of the same powder (or something definitive like red-dots) I would get it and work with it on it's own merits.

[Bonz]

I would never do it

[hunter49]

That's awful tempting at those prices, imo it would have to be from a trusted souce that I have done business with. It's just not worth the risk of personal injury to yourself or others.

[koehn,jim]

No I would not too much danger of powder having been mixed.

[Clay M]

I wouldn't ,but that is me.. You know what the risks are..

[bangerjim]

me??????????

never.....ever......ever......ever.......I am sure not THAT desparate for powders.

You have absolutely NO idea what is in there, if it is cross-contaminated with other powders, and how it has been stored. Pass on that one. Buy ONLY new unpoened from a reliable source!

banger

[.30-06 fan]

buying this powder could end your life.

[376Steyr]

"Paging Mr. Darwin. Paging Mr. Darwin. Mr. Darwin, please pick up the white courtesy telephone..."

[big bore 99]

I'd walk away from that ---fast.

[Blacksmith]

That is pretty expensive for fertilizer. If someone I knew and trusted probably, from a pawn shop who got it from who knows where never.

[TheDoctor]

Like I tell someone when asked if a circuit has been made safe. It's your life, take my word for it if you want to!

Depends on what the powder claims to be. If it claims to be Bullseye, and I was loading 25 acp, or maybe plinker 38's, might not go wrong. Anything that is supposedly slower? No way Jose!

[Taylor]

Absolutely not, not from a pawn shop.I'm with ICH on this!

[MtGun44]

Sure. Trust, but verify, as Reagan said.

Pour out a significant sample of each, examine for mixed powders, then
check to see if it looks to be correct (ball powder in a Unique can is NOT correct,
for example) and then start way low and see how it performs.

At $8 a can, if mostly full, I'd buy them all.

"could end your life" - Really?? that is ridiculous. Not rocket science, requires
a bit of adult thinking, but so does running a chain saw.

[johniv]

Depends what powder it is. I got a 3 lb can of bullseye this summer, seal broken but nearly full. I loaded it as bullseye in a .38, 3.5 gr It would have to be something much faster than BE to cause real trouble. If it is something slower, I would have gotten a squib. Any how that 3 lb can is gone now and it shot just like the new BE does, so in this case , I don't think there was much risk.
John
P.S It looked just like old bullseye(greenish) and only cost me $10.00 .
P.P.S. If it was the other way around and the can said "2400" you would have to be durn careful as the full charge would be 3 times the full charge of a fast burner like bullseye.
FWIW

[Clay M]

I just don't trust people all that much..They could be stupid and drunk, or they could be evil.Either way.. I won't risk it to save a few bucks..
I never came back to a drink I left at a bar either. Paranoid..maybe.. But I am still alive..

My X brother in Law gave me a 3lb can of 296.. He later told me he had some power in a hopper and he forgot whether it was 296 or 748..
Well I still got that can of 296 and it has been over twenty years..
For some reason it didn't give me much confidence in using the powder.
He was a very deceitful dude as well..

[dtknowles]

Local pawn shop has around 10 1 lb bottles of opened powder pistol/shotgun and rifle, all felt mostly full, $8 each. No cans, all plastic bottles. None smelled off or had any other signs of deterioration.

I think if you have to ask you should probably not go for it. I have bought opened powder from yard sales and gun shows and used them. They were what was marked but I could not be sure at the time of purchase. I checked for potential mixture or mismarking only after I bought them, knew that I might have to throw them out but it worked out.

Tim

[Silvercreek Farmer]

I think if you have to ask you should probably not go for it. I have bought opened powder from yard sales and gun shows and used them. They were what was marked but I could not be sure at the time of purchase. I checked for potential mixture or mismarking only after I bought them, knew that I might have to throw them out but it worked out.

Tim

I've already made my decision, just want to see what others would have done. I'll post what I did when the posts slow down.

[historicfirearms]

Sure. Trust, but verify, as Reagan said.

Pour out a significant sample of each, examine for mixed powders, then
check to see if it looks to be correct (ball powder in a Unique can is NOT correct,
for example) and then start way low and see how it performs.

At $8 a can, if mostly full, I'd buy them all.

"could end your life" - Really?? that is ridiculous. Not rocket science, requires
a bit of adult thinking, but so does running a chain saw.

Right on. Listen to this guy. If you dont feel comfortable confirming the contents match the container, then dont use it.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

No! its a risky deal that could end badly. Someone could have mixed powders and the result could be catastrophic. Or the powder might not be still good or at least as good as it should be. Playing in the game of unknowns has never been a wise decision....a poor place to gamble so No Thanks. LLS

[bubba.50]

only if I knew & trusted the person that opened it.

[Horace]

^"only if I knew & trusted the person that opened it"

Horace

[Bzcraig]

Only if the pawn broker were a trusted friend. In my case, that is exactly what I have and he is also my crack......er.......gun dealer!

[tdoyka]

no. heck no. holy $#@% NO.

did i say no.

[swamp]

Not me. Not that trusting.
swamp

[MaryB]

If I knew him well and he knew the customer it came from yes. otherwise? No way no how no thanks

[therealhitman]

I just always assumed that was a "heck no" common sense deal.

[oldred]

I can't believe anyone would actually tell you this is ok! There is NO WAY you can 100% identify that powder no matter who says they can and the consequences of taking a chance on it could be devastating, and for what? Saving a few bucks! To add to what one reply that so aptly put it, looks as if Mr Darwin may have a job to do soon!

Would you shoot discarded reloads found at the range? Why would someone throw them away? Why is that powder at a pawn shop? Most likely someone just pawned it for the money BUT anything could have been the reason for doing so and anything could have happened after it arrived there such as "balancing the contents" as has already been mentioned. Or possibly they became mixed due to a mistake and the person who owned them was afraid to use them? Anyone who thinks that there are not people who would pawn or otherwise sell rather than discard accidentally mixed or otherwise compromised powders before tossing them is living in a fantasy world!

To those who think this is a good deal, well you may be right after all it's only eyes, fingers and maybe a life or two that's at risk here and 40 or 50 bucks is always worth that right?

[lefty o]

i dont care who knows or trusts who, an open can of powder......not only no , but HELLLLLL NO!!!!!!!! maybe i value my eye's, hands, life more than others, but opened powder and shooting other peoples reloads is about as safe as unprotected sex with a thailand hooker.

[sparky45]

Fella's we're taught that there's only ONE container on the loading bench at a time; why do you suppose that is the unwritten rule? In my way of thinking, the downside to buying this powder is miles ahead of the upside.

[Blacksmith]

I just don't trust people all that much..They could be stupid and drunk, or they could be evil.Either way.. I won't risk it to save a few bucks..
I never came back to a drink I left at a bar either. Paranoid..maybe.. But I am still alive..

My X brother in Law gave me a 3lb can of 296.. He later told me he had some power in a hopper and he forgot whether it was 296 or 748..
Well I still got that can of 296 and it has been over twenty years..
For some reason it didn't give me much confidence in using the powder.
He was a very deceitful dude as well..

You still have that 20 year old can of questionable powder. Now everyone knows you are a sensible reloader and would never mix or mismatch powder but what happens to that questionable can you would never use after you pass? Maybe someone sells it to a pawn shop and says "The guy it came from was a very careful reloader."

[Plate plinker]

Probably not. I like my hands just they way they are.

[Clay M]

You still have that 20 year old can of questionable powder. Now everyone knows you are a sensible reloader and would never mix or mismatch powder but what happens to that questionable can you would never use after you pass? Maybe someone sells it to a pawn shop and says "The guy it came from was a very careful reloader."

Good question..and in that respect I will pour it out ..Not sure why I kept it..my bad..

[oldred]

in that respect I will pore it out ...


Pour it wisely! I kept seeing posts telling people to pour it on the lawn as fertilizer or in the flower bed, etc so I tried it and that stuff is as good as Miracle Grow!

[country gent]

I have bought repackaged powders in the past, it was surpluss bulk and was in klkarge containers being sold off at decent prices. But in those cases the original bulk container was there and the repackaging relabeling was done infrotnt of the buyers. Not knowing the person who repackaged it or the pawn shops personel would cause me to back away. While the owner may be trust worthy are his workers? DId one of them decide to "even things out for simplicity or mix with out him knowing or being informed? Is the shop owner also a reloader and understand the nuances of repackaging powders? Proper repackaging includes manufacturer, Powder designation, Lot numbers, date of purchase, hopefully wherre it came from ( calibers pulled from or used in, or a designation of such). With out the above your really working in the dark. I only repackage from 8lb or larger into 1 lb bottles that fit my measure these are labled with the above Powder designation, lot number, date of purchase, and such. A "good Buy" on powder that injures. destroys, or damages a expensive firearm isnt such a good buy in the long run.

[fatelk]

I recently bought a couple of opened cans of 700X, but it's pretty easy to identify. I've also used lots of old H4831 that was packaged in old coffee cans, but I was darn sure of what it was first as well.

Everything we do has risk. The level of risk can be controlled by knowing what you're doing. I have a friend who won't use any brass that he didn't either fire himself new, or buy new. To many "what if"s, too much risk for him. To each their own, but I'm not that paranoid.

Some won't shoot lead in Glock barrels, decap live primers, tumble live ammo, etc... No, no, no, You'll shoot your eye out!!!

Of course the risk can be minimized by having the experience and understanding to do it right and know what not to do. We all choose what level of risk we're comfortable with. To each their own. Funny, I've noticed that several very knowlegable, experienced guys have posted to this thread that they would buy and use opened powder (carefully), where others have said that that's idiotic and borderline suicidal. Whatever. To each their own.

[762 shooter]

I would definitely buy it, but that's me.

It's like anything else in life. Use your brain and powers of deduction and if if looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, treat it like a chicken until you are sure it's a duck.

At $8/lb I would buy it just to see if it was what it was.

Some people shouldn't buy powder brand new in unopened containers.

762

[Clay M]

I would definitely buy it, but that's me.

It's like anything else in life. Use your brain and powers of deduction and if if looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, treat it like a chicken until you are sure it's a duck.



At $8/lb I would buy it just to see if it was what it was.

Some people shouldn't buy powder brand new in unopened containers.

762

Except that rule doesn't apply to well to ball powder..It all looks the same.
I can take W748 and W296 and there is no way you can tell the two apart..
I have both ,and believe me I have tried..
Would a power measure hopper full of 748 dumped in the three pound can of 296 blow my gun up?
Probably not.. My guess is that it would cause erratic velocities and bad groups..
Would my X brother in law have done that ?..absolutely..

[freebullet]

I'm on the same page with mtgun44 and r5r. If consistent and identifiable I couldn't pass it up. If I wasn't sure what it was I wouldn't.

[captaint]

If I could identify it, if I could talk to the person who mixed (poured it in bottles) it - I'd be tempted to get it all. Hey, if it's pistol powder, start with 3 grains and work up. Seriously.

[Clay M]

Well I would say buyer beware.. I have been involved with handloading ammo since the mid 60's and yes, I can look at a lot of stick powder and tell it apart..ie..H4895 and IMR 4895..
Do I trust the average reloaded ..no way..
and I will not shoot their loads in my guns either..

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Would you buy opened powder?Local pawn shop has around 10 1 lb bottles of opened powder pistol/shotgun and rifle, all felt mostly full, $8 each. No cans, all plastic bottles. None smelled off or had any other signs of deterioration.
I really like these kinds of threads :)

The answer is... I probably would (pending a thorough inspection and questioning to the seller).

BUT, To anyone else, that asked me this very question, the answer to them is a resounding NO !

The ole rule is, if ya gotta ask, yur not smart enuff to judge if it's wise choice.

[Clay M]

I also think it is a good thread..We all have our own opinions and each one is valid..
Your choice doesn't have to be my choice and vice versa..
I am sure I am wrong as much as I am right, but I draw from my experiences with people over the years.
If I have no reason to trust someone, then I don't.

[BrianL]

There is a difference between being frugal and being foolish. While the temptation is understandable, I would be very careful and have a sample to compare to of my own.

[Dave18]

common sense goes along ways,

having bought the stuff in paper bags to opened containers, smell, looks, look at it good, who did it come from, lots of ifs,

and yes I have walked away from some deals, you pay attention to the hair on your neck too,

and so far have done good, not saying everyone else will have the same luck though,

[Steve77]

I recently purchased 10 containers of pistol powders and 1500 LP primers for 20 dollars for the lot. Some of the containers were partial, some were sealed. Start low and work your way up. I have also been using old cans of powder from my dad, and grandfather. I carefully work up loads with each container of powder, even ones I purchase brand new from the LGS.

[Garyshome]

I have bought used and fired it, would buy it again if the price is right.

[DCM]

Absolutely Not!!!
This cost me an expensive rifle once.

[maxreloader]

i would never do it

^^^this!!!^^^

[dtknowles]

Absolutely Not!!!
This cost me an expensive rifle once.

Clearly someone made a mistake some where for that to happen.

Tim

[dtknowles]

Bought the opened powder, shot it and not much left. Need more. I would buy it but I don't think anyone else should.

Tim

[mac60]

I would never do it

Me neither. The way I look at it, it's a pig in a poke.

[40-82 hiker]

No way! I would personally walk away from opened cans of powder in a pawn shop. JMHO. It is a fine line between overconfidence and contempt.

[DCM]

Clearly someone made a mistake some where for that to happen.

Tim

YUP! That "rifle powder" turned out to be Pistol powder!

[Col4570]

No,we had a near disaster at or Range due to a can of opened Rifle Powder Blowing a Howa and a Mauser up.When it was checked by the Birmingham Proof House it was found to contain about 50% Bullseye.Both explosions where so violent that the Brass cases Brazed to the Chambers,The Barrels split,the Bolts where mangled,the Scopes ruined and the same shooter had some hand Damage.DO NOT MIX POWDERS.

[40-82 hiker]

No,we had a near disaster at or Range due to a can of opened Rifle Powder Blowing a Howa and a Mauser up.When it was checked by the Birmingham Proof House it was found to contain about 50% Bullseye.Both explosions where so violent that the Brass cases Brazed to the Chambers,The Barrels split,the Bolts where mangled,the Scopes ruined and the same shooter had some hand Damage.DO NOT MIX POWDERS.

Near disaster? Wow!

[Clay M]

I have always kept my loading room locked. I believe most people handle powder safely,but all it takes is a kid left unattended monkeying with something..
I believe this thread all comes down to control.Do you want control over your reloading practices or ,maybe a doubt. I need total confidence when I go to the range.I will gladly pay the money to have that peace of mind..

[oldred]

Ok I will probably catch it for this but anyone who would buy powder under those conditions is just plain reckless! This is the very kind of thing that leads to incidents we read about and then try to analyze what happened, how many "kabooms" have been discussed and everyone has their own opinion about what might have caused it but nobody knows? I don't care what anyone says, without the proper equipment there is absolutely no way to for sure know if that powder is mixed or if it is the right powder in the can, sometimes maybe but not always. Sure it can look to be close to the right stuff but is close good enough? Chance are it is safe but the risk that it is not is very real and the consequences of what could happen just to save a few dollars is such that it borders on,,,,,,well it does anyway!

[bangerjim]

Now I know who NOT to stand next to at the range! Those that would buy and use unknown open can powders can have the range all to themselves those days!

No one out there (no matter how many years they have been doing this) can properly AND correctly ID powder (mixed or not) by just looking at it, smelling it, ttouchng it, or otherwise. ONLY chemical lab analysis can determine what the contents actually are.

NOBODY on here is THAT desparate for powder. You CAN find it if you look in the right places. I do....all the time. Mabe not Unique, but who needs that stuff. There are MANY excellent powders out there that are far better and cleaner than that old antique stuff. I moved on from it a few years ago. Still have 2# (yes.....UNOPENED!) I will be giving to a friiend of mine.

Buy new.......or put the money you save on those garbage powders in your funeral and/or medical fund!!!!!!!!!!

My thoughts........always worked well for me.



OP.......see this.......http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?231107-What-Powder-Did-You-Buy-Today

banger

[bikerbeans]

No!

Bb

[dtknowles]

No,we had a near disaster at or Range due to a can of opened Rifle Powder Blowing a Howa and a Mauser up.When it was checked by the Birmingham Proof House it was found to contain about 50% Bullseye.Both explosions where so violent that the Brass cases Brazed to the Chambers,The Barrels split,the Bolts where mangled,the Scopes ruined and the same shooter had some hand Damage.DO NOT MIX POWDERS.

What rifle powder would look close enough to Bullseye that you would not notice it in the scale pan as a mixed up powder or if in a powder measure you would not see that it was two different powders. It is a flake powder, I don't know of any flake "Rifle Powders" I don't see this example as relevant, certainly if you buy opened cans of powder you would need to give them a good look.

Tim

[fatelk]

Where's Wilco- shoulda been a poll? :)

1. Sure, with caution.
2. Maybe, under the right circumstances.
3. No, I think not.
4. Heck NO! And again NO!
5. Not only NO, but no sane person would even consider it; if you even think about it I'll be forced to cut loose with a condescending lecture and chew you out as if you were an ignorant child!

It's been interesting to see the different perspectives. To each their own. Everyone sees things their own way and I can respect that. What I can't respect though, are those who choose option #5 and post ranting lectures telling me how stupid I am. No big deal, I simply choose to ignore those posts. Reasoned, adult arguments I can handle. Lectures calling me stupid; no thanks.

Added: No offense intended towards anyone in particular, it's just that I've seen enough of those kind of lecturing posts over the years that I just had to say my piece. Thank you for understanding. :)

[Clay M]

I personally would never call any man stupid for the choices he makes.. We all come from different background and that always influences the choice we make. If It works for you, then,who am I to say differently. I am who I am and I always try to shoot straight with everyone. .If a man screws me over then I am done with him permanently.

[Hamish]

We've had these threads before, over and over,,,,,,,

Examine for contamination/degradation/cross mixing.

Treat it like a (less than if ultra cautious) start load of Bullseye in a straight wall pistol case.

Chronograph it and compare to known load data.

Work upwards with knowledge and caution.

Load,shoot,repeat,,,,,,,

[Clay M]

We've had these threads before, over and over,,,,,,,

Examine for contamination/degradation/cross mixing.

Treat it like a (less than if ultra cautious) start load of Bullseye in a straight wall pistol case.

Chronograph it and compare to known load data.

Work upwards with knowledge and caution.

Load,shoot,repeat,,,,,,,

So how do you suggest I work with the can of 296 that might be contaminated with 748?
Can you see contamination in that ?Or do I load it and hope for the best.. It might all be 748 for all I know.

[Handloader109]

Powder is not that valuable. Nor hard to obtain. Now you obviously can't buy a particular powder immediately in most cases, but you are buying a chance here that I don't think I would. Especially if there were multiple types for sale.

[Clay M]

Powder is not that valuable. Nor hard to obtain. Now you obviously can't buy a particular powder immediately in most cases, but you are buying a chance here that I don't think I would. Especially if there were multiple types for sale.

Thank You..My peace of mind and time is worth far more than a can of powder..

[oldred]

I wonder how many people who would say yes go ahead and buy it would be the first to call someone stupid for buying such powder if they had gotten hurt with it? To borrow from the previous post, powder is not THAT valuable nor that hard to get but eyes, fingers and maybe someone's life is quite valuable indeed! Not one person here could for sure identify every instance of mixed powders, some sure but definitely not all, and there is a definite risk this powder could be seriously compromised. To risk serious injury or death just to save the few dollars buying this stuff would save is just plain dumb!

[Hamish]

So how do you suggest I work with the can of 296 that might be contaminated with 748?
Can you see contamination in that ?Or do I load it and hope for the best.. It might all be 748 for all I know.

I suggest you not buy anything that does not have an intact seal. (shrug)

[Clay M]

I suggest you not buy anything that does not have an intact seal. (shrug)


To each his own my friend.. Now you have a nice day..

[MtGun44]

LOL!
Hilarious answers.

There is actually no magic involved in reloading. Powder is just
powder. Treated carefully it is safe. Not so much if you are
not using it carefully.

I'd still buy it all and use it. Safely.

Your viewpoint or mileage may vary.

[fatelk]

Thank You..My peace of mind and time is worth far more than a can of powder..
I absolutely agree. For your own peace of mind dumping it out would definitely be the best option. Peace of mind is worth more than a $20 can of powder if it concerns you. By no means do I want anyone to think that I disagree with someone erring on the side of caution. (Not that's it's erring if you think it's likely contaminated.)

On the other hand if I am given an 80% full keg of 4895, I'm going to carefully and cautiously (using Hamish's excellent advice above) check it out, make sure it is what it says it is, and use it. If I do my work right, I will then use it in full confidence. Yes, I CAN tell the difference between 4895 and unique, despite the old reloading-manual rule of how you need a ballistics lab to think for you.

Things like this I consider to be "advanced techniques" and the exclusive domain of level-headed, experienced loaders. Like cast in a Glock barrel, I would tell a beginner NO! Don't do it! If you're not sure of what you're doing, cautious enough to do it right, and comfortable with the results; just don't.

Just to show that I'm aware of the dangers of this subject, I'll tell the story of a young, stupid newbie that almost got himself blown up by using the wrong powder:

Long ago, several decades, this young fool was just learning to reload. He had a couple years of rifle loading under his belt and decided to give shotgunning a try. He found a MEC 600jr setup for sale in the classifieds and went and bought it. The old-timer selling it threw in a whole bunch of extras: manuals, shot, wads, primers, half-full cans of powder.

Newbie loads some rounds with some 700X or something, carefully following the recipes in the old load manual and working them up a half grain at a time, firing them into the ground out in the garden area behind the farm house. Everything's great. He's happy.

He looks up the proper recipe for the components he has, using the can of Alcan 5 that came with it. He wonders about something written in faded sharpie on the lid but can't make it out. He also wonders about the little green dots in the powder. The manual says something like 30 grains max for the particular components, so he loads several with varying marked charges starting at something like 26 grains.

Boom! The lightest charge sure kicks hard. That's weird. A lot harder than the 700x load.
BOOM! The stupid kid didn't take the hint, and fired the next one. This one kicked even worse, and the empty came out with most of the crimp ironed out.
KABOOM!! Idiot punk, stop already! Why I, er... he, fired the next one I'll never know, but it was unbearable; kicked like an artillery piece, unlocked the bolt on it's own, and the hull came out with the crimp completely smooth.

I finally got the message and didn't fire the last couple. I went in and looked that manual over carefully, then looked the can of powder over carefully. I couldn't make out what was faded on the lid, but then I turned it over, and clearly written on the bottom in sharpie, was "Green Dot". The max charge for Green Dot was something like 21 grains. I think I had overloaded that old Mossberg within inches of it becoming a hand grenade next to my face. Yeah, it was stupid. I definitely would have deserved a good lecture that day. I was lucky for sure. I was young and stupid; I'm older now. :)

BTW, that old Mossberg survived it's double-proof like a workhorse. It's still going strong, thousands of rounds later.

[crabo]

I just bought some opened powder. I got

2.6 pounds of Supertarget
2.1 pounds of Bullseye
.41 pounds of H110
1.16 pounds of 571
.6 of IMR 4198
.6 pounds of 3031

All weights include the container. I happen to have all of these powders in my stockpile. I will pour powder from my stock and powder from the opened container onto two clean sheets of copy paper. If they look the same, I will use it, starting with a reduced load, (except the H110).

If it doesn't look right, out it will go into the flower bed. Oh, BTW, I had to give $20 for the lot.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

I have come to a point in my life that I offer suggestions WHEN I am asked. I really don't care if they take my suggestion or not. I used to get upset when I gave advice and it wasn't taken. Now I give suggestions and leave it at that.

[fatelk]

To risk serious injury or death just to save the few dollars buying this stuff would save is just plain dumb!

Here's the difference: The way I did it a quarter century ago WAS risky and dumb. The way I would do it now, using experience and a high level of caution, is no more risky of serious injury or death than working up a load for a new caliber/bullet/powder combination. Most of us work up loads all the time for combinations that aren't specifically in the book. You take risks all the time. With experience you learn how to experiment a little while minimizing the risk. If you think I'm dumb for that, so be it. To each their own.

[Clay M]

Sorry ,but my time is limited.. I don't have time to play games identifying powder.I am lucky if I have time to load and shoot at all.I have not cast bullets in over six month for taking care of sick family members..
My family is very sick and that is no BS
Good luck to you all.


Clay M

[fatelk]

In all sincerity, I wish you and your family the best; hope and pray for improved health.

I can understand the time thing too. There is a reason I have never bought a gas-check maker...

We have a broad spectrum of society on here, some with more money than time, some with a lot more time than money, and some of us who are very limited on both. I don't mean to offend anyone, and truly apologize if I have, with my rambling, long-winded posts and all. :)

[Col4570]

What rifle powder would look close enough to Bullseye that you would not notice it in the scale pan as a mixed up powder or if in a powder measure you would not see that it was two different powders. It is a flake powder, I don't know of any flake "Rifle Powders" I don't see this example as relevant, certainly if you buy opened cans of powder you would need to give them a good look.

Tim
I agree,in this case the difference in the two powders was so evident that the loader obviously didn't know of the dangers.At the Range cautionary notices where posted to warn of the dangers.The loader is no longer a member of our club.

[Blacksmith]

I like the idea of considering using powders with a questionable heritage an advanced activity for experienced reloaders only. And will start adding the advice to new reloaders to only use powder from known sources that they personally have unsealed.

[Clay M]

So if you take an unknown powder and (make it work) in a gun, what have you accomplished?
Besides to prove that you can do it and have something that will go bang.
Each gun I own I have spent many years coming up with certain powders that work best for those guns.
For example my .308's shoot Rel15 and Norma202 best..Why would I want to waste my time loading anything else?

I only care about what is accurate..To me everything else is totally irrelevant.

[WILCO]

Would you buy opened powder?

If I knew the source and trusted it. No problem.

[MtGun44]

Blacksmith,

You are exactly right. If a person is not knowledgable, doesn't have samples
known to be the correct powder on hand to compare to visually, and is just new
or even unsure, not a good thing to be doing.

I have been shooting surplus powders for decades, and loading since the
1960s and would be pretty comfortable with it.

A new shooter should probably stay away or at least get an older and
very experienced shooter to advise. Certainly, just trusting that a powder
is what it says it is and loading it in a rifle in substantial quantity would
be foolish. But loading 3 grains in a .45 ACP and chronoing it would be
pretty safe. If your W231 can contained W748, nothing dangerous would
occur with that situation. If the W748 can contained W231 and you
loaded 44 gr in a .308, the gun would burst for sure. If W748 was
actually W748 and you put 3 gr in a pistol, at worst you may have
to knock the boolit out with a brass rod, although it may burn well
enough to push the boolit out, and you could definitely be sure it
was safe to try 8 or 10 gr in a .308, and work your way up.

Certainly the requirement to start VERY low and work up, using a
chrono, is critical. Not rocket science, but definitely advanced
reloading.

[oldred]

A "bargain" might, or might not, be a legitimate argument if it meant a huge savings in terms of dollars or if powder was not otherwise available but to take that kind of risk considering the consequences of getting it wrong just don't make sense for the insignificant savings involved here. Those who say they can 100% know for sure the powder is safe are kidding themselves, they can do as they please but the more cautious folks here would pass and not have the risk to deal with. How anyone could risk life and limb, and it IS a risk I don't care who you are and how experienced you are, is beyond me.


I am really surprised that so many here would be as reckless as this! I have in the past wondered why it was that accidents happen as often as they do considering that theoretically they should never occur as long as everyone heeded the safety guidelines but after reading this thread I think I now understand why!

[Clay M]

It is blended ball powders that I see as a possible problem..Like I said, someone forgetting that they left 296 in a powder measure and dumping into a can of 748.Maybe no harm would come, but I don't have that knowledge and am not willing to risk it..

[oldred]

It is blended ball powders that I see as a possible problem..Like I said, someone forgetting that they left 296 in a powder measure and dumping into a can of 748.Maybe no harm would come, but I don't have that knowledge and am not willing to risk it..

Obviously some powders would literally stand out when mixed with other types but some could blend in quite closely. As far as references to bulk powders in some others replies I fail to see the connection, buying or otherwise obtaining bulk powders from what should be known or at least reliable sources who at least understand powders is a far cry from buying an opened powder from "who-knows-where" and sold by a pawn shop who may know nothing about powder, even if they do they have only the word of the previous owner who may have stolen the stuff, "evened out" the containers, or who knows what else before pawning it! It's the unknowns that creates the hazards and just "eyeballing" the powder is not going to eliminate all these variables no matter who is doing it.

[dtknowles]

It is blended ball powders that I see as a possible problem..Like I said, someone forgetting that they left 296 in a powder measure and dumping into a can of 748.Maybe no harm would come, but I don't have that knowledge and am not willing to risk it..

Just one more example of what to avoid it you do buy unsealed powder. Indeed the ball powders are the riskiest. I think you just demonstrated the kind of understanding of the problem that would let you use unsealed powder safely even though you probably won't. Even though I have bought unsealed powder, surplus powder and even used powder from ammo I pulled down I probably would not use ball powder that had a weak chain of custody (like a pawn shop where the powder is definitely third hand." I did buy a "used" can of H110 but I it had a strong chain of custody.

Tim

[Clay M]

Obviously some powders would literally stand out when mixed with other types but some could blend in quite closely. As far as references to bulk powders in some others replies I fail to see the connection, buying or otherwise obtaining bulk powders from what should be known or at least reliable sources who at least understand powders is a far cry from buying an opened powder from "who-knows-where" and sold by a pawn shop who may know nothing about powder, even if they do they have only the word of the previous owner who may have stolen the stuff, "evened out" the containers, or who knows what else before pawning it! It's the unknowns that creates the hazards and just "eyeballing" the powder is not going to eliminate all these variables no matter who is doing it.

Exactly,and that is all I have been trying to get at.. I feel to suggest someone buy a can of opened ball power is putting them at risk..

[Silvercreek Farmer]

The rest of the story:

I passed on the powders. I knew opened containers presented a potential hazard. I only currently use one of the powders (Power Pistol) which does not have a particularly unique appearence. There was also a bottle of Blue Dot, Clays, Lil-Gun, Ramshot (maybe Enforcer?), a few Alliant rifle powders, and a few more I don't recall. None of the powders were obviously mixed (flake and ball etc). While I don't think the guy that runs the gun counter would be stupid enough to mix powders, the pawnshop itself is on the shady side of town and is not what you would call well organized. They were recently shut down for a few days by the fire marshall, until they could get everything picked up off the floor so the aisles would be passable. I do have a chrono and may consider 4 lbs+ of something I use a lot of such as Red Dot that I could work up a load for and use for some time. Thank you for all the replies.

[Clay M]

To me accuracy is about controlling as many variables as possible..I like fresh powder and try to buy it in Lots.. but I am still shooting Rel15 from the mid 90's in my .308 It will consistently shoot in the threes for five shots.. I am not talking about cast bullet here.Just Match grade Sierra or Berger.

I believe if you are knowledgeable and careful you will do fine with most opened powder..If you are not extremely knowledgeable about each powder,the Please leave it alone..

If someone gave me a bunch of open powder would I use it..?
Probably not because that is not what I am interested in..

Will I have a chance to fulfill what I want to do? It looks doubtful.
But maybe I will get a chance to cast and work up some loads..
If I can post something worthwhile to someone..
I might have time left to do that..
Unless my wife and daughter get better,I am afraid most of my shooting days are over my friends..
But it is all good. I love my family and they are what matters most to me.
As my grandfather told me when I was little,"We will all go down together boy."

[lightman]

Personally I would not even consider buying opened powder. There are just too many ways for it to go wrong and its not worth the risk for me. Can a knowledgeable and experienced reloader do it and get away with it? Yeah, or at least probably. To each his own, but buying opened powder is not for me.

[lightman]

Clay M, really sorry to hear about your Families medical problems. Prayers sent that they will improve. My hats off to ya for your dedication.