Delimma: Buying jacketed, or investing in a mould for coyotes?

[wyrmzr]

OK, I've got a small delimma going here:
I'm planning on doing some coyote hunting this summer, and am shopping around for bullets and/or moulds for this purpose. The gun I'd like to use is my AR, with a .223/5.56 bull barrel with a 1:8 twist. I'm shopping for moulds, trying to find one that will work for coyote hunting with that twist, and so far much of what I'd hoped I'd see isn't in stock. I'm thinking that, if it's not just crazy hunting coyotes with cast, then I'd want a 62+ grain bullet for the 1:8 twist. NOE has a 68 grain mould, but no handles right now, but at least the mould is a start. If I buy the mould, I'd also buy a 1000 box of practice bullets, 62 grain. A box of those can be had for $105.00 right now.
My alternative is to skip buying the mould, and buy a box of 80 grain bullets by the thousand, at $190 (I'm hoping to keep a $200 limit on the investment for the moment, or thereabouts).
Is it reasonable to expect decent coyote hunting performance from a cast 68 grain bullet, or am I better off going with factory bullets for the application? Are there any good or bad performers for cast bullets as far as the AR and coyotes that anyone has found?

[Mauser48]

I would go with jacketed bullets for varmint hunting. They arnt very expensive especially for how much your going to shoot hunting. With jacketed bullets for varmint hunting you get extreme expansion. You can also shoot them a lot faster than cast. Get some good 69 grain sierra bullets.

[C. Latch]

There are people that make their ARs cycle with cast loads and make them shoot well.

I'll probably never be one of them. You can buy Hornady 55-grain FMJBTs, which are very accurate bullets, for $470/6k, and sometimes you can get their 55 grain SPs for the same price. Casting for an AR simply isn't worth it to me. Buy a 1000-pack of those 55 grain SPs, or buy a few hundred 53-grain V-max, or...heck, anything between 50 and 69 grains that you can find in stock. Chances are your rifle will shoot them decently well, they'll work great on coyotes, and you won't have to fight the learning curve - or cost curve - of getting your AR to run with cast bullets. I enjoy casting, but it's just a tool, and not a one-size-fits all tool. Small-caliber semi-autos are one place where I really think it's easier to just buy jacketed bullets.

[M-Tecs]

With an 8 twist barrel getting usable velocity with cast is going to be a challange. For under 300 yards I use 40 grain V-Max or Nosler B-tips. If I am going to go past 300 I switch to 55 V-max or Nosler B-tips. Out of the AR 80 grainers are single load only.

I would suggest that you stay clear of the 68 and 69 grain Match ammo. I have had very poor performance on coyotes with the 69's

The closest thing I have ever seen to a magic load is 40 grain V-Max or B-Tip over 27.5 of H335. I shoots great in every thing from 7 twist to 14 twist.

This was a 40 B-tip at 325 yards.

[ammohead]

Your rig is not a good beginner cast boolit rig. More like an expert cast boolit makers proposition. A 30-30 would be alot more forgiving and easier to break into the cast boolit hobby. And if your calling set up is a good one and yodel dogs are plentiful, a 30-30 with cast boolits will make a good yote rig.

[Blammer]

If it were me and knowing what I know now. I would buy some bulk jacketed spire pointed 55gr varmint bullets and go kill some coyote's!

[wyrmzr]

Hmm.. how about my 91/30 for coyotes? I've been casting for it for a while, just need to put a decent scope on it. Otherwise I do still have a lot of 60 grain polymer tipped varmint bullets I can load up for the AR. The AR does seem to fire the 55 grain FMJ bullets fine, but I want the extra distance that the rifling can give, so was leaning toward 62+ grains, both for practice and for varmints.

[Smoke4320]

Jacketed will be the way to go with that twist
The 223 AR will be better especially for those quick follow up shots

[M-Tecs]

Out to 500 yards the 40's are the flattest http://www.hornady.com/images/ballistics/ballistics_charts.pdf and less lead on running shoots.

[Omega]

I went with the 55 grain Varmageddon when I found them on sale and due to them being a very close match to the military surplus fmjs which are illegal to hunt with here.

[triggerhappy243]

The sierra 69 gr. Bullets do not expand on coyotes. Look at midsouth shooters supply varmint nightmare extreme 55 gr. Hollow points. I use them in my ar and it shoots 1/2 moa out to 300 yards all day.

[pertnear]

If it were me and knowing what I know now. I would buy some bulk jacketed spire pointed 55gr varmint bullets and go kill some coyote's!
Good advice. Buy in bulk & shoot for now. Save your money up to swage .224 bullets from .22lr cases. They really shoot out of my AR! Fun to make too - check out the swaging section.

[KLR]

I've learned that shooting/hunting and casting bullets aren't necessarily related hobbies. If you want to spend your summer shooting/hunting coyotes, buy jacketed bullets. If you want to spend your summer developing a reliable, accurate, effective cast bullet load, start casting.

[triggerhappy243]

Ahhhhhuuuummmm! (clearing my throat) you should be hunting coyotes now. Use a screaming cottontail call.............. Shoot them with 55 gr. Jacketed hollow points..... Trust me.

[white eagle]

casting 22 cal boolits is a pain
I have done it
if you a young and have good eyes I say go for it
I am old and have fat fingers (everything else too..)
you will not get the velocity that you could drive a full condom bullet
however velocity is not the only factor in hunting bullet
best of luck

[wyrmzr]

My go-to powder for now is H335, largely because I stumbled across an 8 lb jug of it locally.
Isn't 40 grains a little light for 1:8 twist, or do I just need to find the right velocity for it? I do have the option of a Savage Axis bolt action, which, as I recall, is 1:9 twist, but the quicker follow up shots from the bull barreled semi auto is more tempting to head into the field with.

[triggerhappy243]

H-335 is an excellent choice for the 223. It is all i use in the 4- 223 rifles i have. 1:8 twist is too fast for a light bullet like that. My ar has a 1 in 8 twist, and like i said in a previous post, i shoot those 55 gr. Varmint nightmare extreme hollow point bullets. I like them soo much i buy them 10,000 at a time. They work great on prairie dogs, coyotes, cats, and double up nice for a home defense bullet.

[runfiverun]

Casting and shooting 22's for an AR rifle isn't all that hard I run my 8 twist at 2800 fps with accuracy on par with jacketed.
The hard part is doing it and making the boolit perform properly on game.

I make my own jacketed bullets in 22 cal. And getting them to work properly on yotes and ground squirrel type animals took some testing.
And some failures.

I just buy bullets for the times I'll need like 4-5 rounds a week.

[jhalcott]

BUY the jacketed ones! I've shot a lot of ground hogs with cast in several .223 guns. Seldom get DRT from cast. Jacketed will expand at any reasonable speed. Coyotes are a LOT tougher than ground hogs and harder to drop at the shot. A pencil hole thru the vitals will let them go pretty far before they die! IF (big IF) you are not interested in the hides, it wont matter WHAT you poke them with

[M-Tecs]

My go-to powder for now is H335, largely because I stumbled across an 8 lb jug of it locally.
Isn't 40 grains a little light for 1:8 twist, or do I just need to find the right velocity for it?

Yes it is way overspun but if they don't blow up you are GTG. I have three AR match rifles in 8 twist with 28" barrels (Krieger and 7.7 is the actual twist) that easily hold 1/2" MOA for five with 40's over 27.5 H335. I have lost 52 grain Speer bulk hollow points in my 8 twists but I have never lost a 40 V-Max or B-Tip. One rifle that I use for PD's has 8,000 plus on it. That one is only holding about 3/4" MOA currently but it started as a 3/8" MOA rifle. When I coat with Hexagonal Boron Nitride (HBN) I use 28 grains of H335.

If you try them I think you will be surprised by how well they shoot and how deadly that load is.

[vmathias]

Coyotes are TOUGH animals. I think you would lose or track many hundreds of yards or miles with a lower velocity cast in 223. I started to cast for my 243 using 100g cast boolits. I am running them at right around 1750fps. I would still be hesitant to use these for coyotes. Not that it wouldn't kill them but the wrong boolit can send a coyote running a LONG ways off. I would stick with the varmint loads. Just my opinion.

[Blammer]

if your 40gr jacketed bullets are not the "hornet" thin skinned kind, you should have no problem shooting them at full throttle in your 8T AR.

[Lonegun1894]

I have always used jacketed for coyotes, but have taken a handful with cast. Not much of a test, but good results so far. For what it's worth, it was a Lyman 225415, cast out of WDWW, sized to .225, and pushed with 9.5grs Unique out of a Rem 700 .223 Rem with a 26" 1:12" twist barrel. This load is straight out of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, and supposedly does 2300 fps. I haven't put it over a chronograph, but usual groups run 1.0-1.25"@100, and where I use it, my longest shot to date was 175 yds, so good enough. For what it's worth, I don't save the hide, just kill them to protect a friends livestock, so shoot for the shoulder blade and it shrapnels into the heart and lungs for very quick, usually DRT, stops. I have been playing with my Contender, also a .223 with 1:12" twist, and the results are promising, but I need more testing. I am considering trying this load on hogs, which should work fine since I have been taking them with a .22 LR. Now I think your bolt-action would be easier to work up a load for since there is no need to make it cycle like the AR, but even with that, if you want to shoot out to 300+ yards, and I hate to say this, but I would find a 55-75gr jacketed bullet and work up a load that shoots well in your rifle. That will get you hunting NOW. And in the meantime, I would also get a mold of your choice, and work up a load, but take your time and get it ready for next fall or winter. That way, you get to hunt now, and have time to work up a good load for later. Is that a possible option?

[freebullet]

Mtecs got ya squared away purty well already but I'd add that 26.5gr worked better for a 16" carbine. At 27gr h335 primers were starting to flatten, work up careful. Mine were 40gr. Varmageddon hpfb, midway puts them on clearance sale for the price of fmj occasionally.

An ar in 308 with cast would be a better bet than the 223/556 variety.

[triggerhappy243]

nothing has been said about what chamber you have. is it a 5.56 mil-spec, wilde or a 223 chamber?

[trapper9260]

The OP said that there is no handle for the mold he was looking at NOE ,you can use a Lee 6 cav .one and that will work for it there is a post somewhere on this site that say what make of molds you can use what handle with.
Here is the post of what handle you can use on what mold
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?154184-Lee-6-Cavity-Handle-interchange-Use-list

[Rick Hodges]

I like 55 gr. Sierra spitzers, either bt or flat base for coyotes in a .223. My vote is for jacketed bullets. Cast may work well but it is not easy to develop a flat shooting cast .223 load particularly in a 1-7 twist barrel. I agree now is the time to shoot them...pelts prime perhaps a bit singed. The Sierras' are effective without destroying the pelts.

I never saw a Coyote that one of those Sierra's started at 31-3200 fps. in the right spot didn't stone right there. Even at 300+ yds.

[Jeff Maney]

Coyotes are TOUGH animals. I think you would lose or track many hundreds of yards or miles with a lower velocity cast in 223. I started to cast for my 243 using 100g cast boolits. I am running them at right around 1750fps. I would still be hesitant to use these for coyotes. Not that it wouldn't kill them but the wrong boolit can send a coyote running a LONG ways off. I would stick with the varmint loads. Just my opinion.

I have had excellent coyote results with the Winchester 64 Gr. SP in 223 Rem. at about 2,900 FPS. I have lost 2 or 3 coyotes with various HP jacketed running real fast. The soft point bullet works excellent even thru the shoulders. Coyotes are very tough to put down and not have to trail!

Jeff

[MBTcustom]

I've never shot cast in an AR, so take this for what it's worth, but with an 8 twist, you are way over the RPM threshold at 1600FPS,
You might give this a read:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?208186-RPM-Threshold-barrel-twist-velocity-chart
And you're going to have trouble getting it to cycle at that speed without a whole bunch of modifications.
I would say just buy the jacketed bullets and call it a day. I'm working on a 22 wildcat at the moment that will be designed to shoot realistic groups @ 2700 FPS. It's not an easy task at all, and I agree with the poster who said what you are considering undertaking is a proposition for a very advanced caster.

[Geezer in NH]

Depends, want to kill or have sport??

Sport to me is Boolits.

Kill J-words.

My son is a NH licensed Wildlife Control Operator II [NH state F&G term not mine]

For sport I do not use J-words. Helping him J-words or shotgun.

Pelts to him do not count as pelts are 20% profit only. #'s count in control.

My own fun and compensation of pelts #1

[pls1911]

Ammo head was spot on with the comment regarding the 30-30 being among the best and most forgiving when starting into the casting game.
And no kidding...'yotes out to 150 yards with cast bullets are a bucket of fun.

[DougGuy]

I thought the guy that was blowing up hogs with tannerite had an edge on the situation! How about a half gallon milk jug full of it sitting 3/4 of the jug in a hole in the ground under a rabbit call? :bigsmyl2:

[Geezer in NH]

I thought the guy that was blowing up hogs with tannerite had an edge on the situation! How about a half gallon milk jug full of it sitting 3/4 of the jug in a hole in the ground under a rabbit call? :bigsmyl2:

Sorry but I see that guy as an *** posting it on u-tube like he did, just another idiot using Tanerite to help get it banned. We are own enemy

[DougGuy]

I didn't say to post it on youtube I just said to do it.

[MT Chambers]

Getting good accuracy out of cast bullets in a .22 cal. will prolly mean low velocity, you need J-word bullets for yotes to flatten the trajectory, however I would prefer a 30/30 or .308 with cast boolits for varminting.

[truckjohn]

So...

Here's a dumb question and all.....

What sort of Coyote hunting are you going to do?
Is the terrain and shooting such that you will see them out across a field and NEED 300+ yard shots like you may have with bean fields or hunting out west....

Or... Is it more like brushy back east hunting - where distances are relatively short, visibility is also short, but shots have to be QUICK....

I gotta tell you - for most of brushy SC coyote/varmint hunting - an Automatic 12-gage shotgun is the ticket.... The vast majority of guys I know that call 'yotes in the woods shoot them with auto shotguns... Why? Distances are under 50 yards... Coyotes are coming in fast - but they turn tail and leave fast too... You just don't have time to set up for a high-precision shot...

All that being said - if you already have the AR setup - I would get my loads for Jacketed sorted out and put some 'Yotes on the ground before you start going down the Cast bullet sawdust trail... There's definitely a learning curve with cast... A 223 direct-impingement gas gun isn't my first choice for cutting teeth on cast as there are about 30 additional variables in play than vs a manually operated action - single shot, bolt action, or lever action....

Thanks

[sw282]

l have shot prairie dogs for years and on them my favorite wt is 40gr.. Fastest VMax 40gr 223 load listed in Hornady Man is 3800 fps..3600 for 222...l really prefer a 50gr bullet in 222/223... Noslers' 50gr BT is THE perfect bullet for 223..lt flies well @3500fps...Much flatter out to 400yds than 40gr...While shooting prairie dogs a coyote will frequently show up for a ''free'' meal...50s definitely work better than 40 gr VMax. Now ,if you really want to get a coyotes' attention try a 50gr Nosler BT @4000+fps. From a 220 Swift has no equals