Decided on the Ruger 45 Long Colt for Deer

[vmathias]

After exhaustive research I decided to go with the Ruger Blackhawk 5.5" in 45 LC. With slightly hot hand loads (1100fps)/ 255g boolits and the thick Pennsylvania woods I think this is the clear choice. Shots will be less than 70 yards but have read that similar loads will easily get the job done out to 100.

[DougGuy]

That's a great choice of gun AND caliber. Even the 1873 BP loading behind the hollow base lead round nose is bad medicine for a deer, as it was originally conceived to shoot through the enemy's horse, and still kill the enemy.

Most of the experienced .45 Colt shooters here have been with this caliber for 30+yrs and find it really shines with heavy boolits and slow burning powder. 280gr to 320gr cast boolits with a large flat nose at 1175f/s or so would be pretty close to the max recoil that most would want to handle, some of us shoot that as a day in day out hunting load, no need for a HP here.

My favorite is the Lee C452-300-RF boolit over 20.5gr LilGun, this is about an 85% to 90% loading, same boolit over 22.5gr 296 or H110 would be pretty much the max, and will drive a 340gr hardcast slam through 36" of seasoned oak firewood.

Lee C452-300-RF:

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Reloading/0d3c189d-b085-4d95-a658-1f0f88b78255_zps3f37d14d.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Reloading/0d3c189d-b085-4d95-a658-1f0f88b78255_zps3f37d14d.jpg.html)

Hardcast 340gr SSK TC boolit over 22.0gr 296, recovered after traveling through 34" - 36" of oak firewood:

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Reloading/f0ef1f31-bc74-4cd1-8db0-0bd95c1a6e1e_zps402bc1ec.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Reloading/f0ef1f31-bc74-4cd1-8db0-0bd95c1a6e1e_zps402bc1ec.jpg.html)

[vmathias]

The Lee 452-255RF (255g) will most likely be the Mold I will Purchase. This will give me a tad more Velocity without constantly pushing the Ruger pressures. I do know The Blackhawks have been tested well above the standard pressures but for what I will be hunting I think this combo will be right where I want it to be. Field tests will be the ultimate decider of course.

[white eagle]

good choice for sure
as with DougGuy I always seem to go on the heavy side as well
but I always seem to go heavy
my 44 I shoot 300-320 gr.
I really like the 45c and have had a few(handguns) still have that cal in a rifle

[DougGuy]

The Lee 452-255RF (255g) will most likely be the Mold I will Purchase. Field tests will be the ultimate decider of course.


I seriously doubt any of them will be getting away from it!

[Wolfer]

I'm quite fond of the 45 colt. I started out with the lee 452-255RF at around 970 fps. It's still my most accurate load to date. Perhaps I'm a little hard of hearing but I can shoot this load in the field without ringing my ears. This is a personal requirement of mine in a field handgun.

After shooting a few deer and a coyote plus a good pile of small game I decided I needed a better boolit. This boolit at this velocity just punches a 45 cal hole thru game be it big or small.
I went with the Lyman 452-424 and had Eric HP one cavity with a cup type HP. To get my fixed sight gun to shoot to the sights I have to push it to around 1050. I do get better blood trails with this load but the end result , distance traveled after the shot is about the same. Some go down right there, I've had one go 75 yds but most go about 30/40 yds.

Its just a personal opinion but I consider the 45 colt to be one of the finest handgun cartridges ever made.

[oldfart1956]

Excellent choice Vmathias. I've been using the Lee 255 rnf for a bit now and find it works excellent. Over a modest charge of Unique it goes right thru our Pa. deer quite handily. I'm using 8.5 to 9 grains so I'm a bit below your load. (seems I didn't chrono that one) I stayed with an accurate load over velocity. Groups, using a scope and sandbags, with a 7 1/2 inch Blackhawk run under 2 inches at 75yds. I tried the Lee 300's. As a matter of fact I cast the first ones Doug Guy tried. Never could get the accuracy from them and the recoil gets brutal in short order. The Lyman 452460 (200gr.) was a real eye opener as well. Never could get it to work in any 1911 but in the Blackhawk it worked dandy. Gahhhh...don't know what key I hit to make the bold type. Audie..the befuddled Oldfart.

[oldfart1956]

Vmathias, how close are ye to Greencastle/Chambersburg Pa. ? Audie...the Oldfart..

[DougGuy]

Audie, those are your boolits in the top photo!

I have a Vaquero, I run some stout charges and heavy for caliber boolits to get it to shoot to the sights. I can't use a 255gr as it would hit 4" low at 25yds. I have 6 or 7 loads that all shoot to the same point of aim, but they are all in the 300gr - 340gr range. Recoil very pronounced, yep get your attention like RIGHT NOW!

Very dead critters, took two with one shot one year from a 4 5/8" Vaquero, both DRT.

[vmathias]

[QUOTE=oldfart1956;3145683]Vmathias, how close are ye to Greencastle/Chambersburg Pa. ? Audie...the Oldfart..[/QUOTe

I am about 3 to 3.5 hrs away. I am up near the Bloomsburg Area.

[vmathias]

Excellent choice Vmathias. I've been using the Lee 255 rnf for a bit now and find it works excellent. Over a modest charge of Unique it goes right thru our Pa. deer quite handily. I'm using 8.5 to 9 grains so I'm a bit below your load. (seems I didn't chrono that one) I stayed with an accurate load over velocity. Groups, using a scope and sandbags, with a 7 1/2 inch Blackhawk run under 2 inches at 75yds. I tried the Lee 300's. As a matter of fact I cast the first ones Doug Guy tried. Never could get the accuracy from them and the recoil gets brutal in short order. The Lyman 452460 (200gr.) was a real eye opener as well. Never could get it to work in any 1911 but in the Blackhawk it worked dandy. Gahhhh...don't know what key I hit to make the bold type. Audie..the befuddled Oldfart.

I was contemplating the 7.5" barrel but for carry I am only 5'8. I figured the 5.5 barrel would be much easier to negotiate while carrying. Havent purchased yet though and am still considering the 7.5. If it shoots that much better I will go that route.

[Jevyod]

So if you don't mind my asking, what made you go with that vs the 44 mag? I am also a Pa hunter and have contemplate getting into revolver hunting. I just wondered what were the deciding factors that made you go that direction.

[shoot-n-lead]

After exhaustive research I decided to go with the Ruger Blackhawk 5.5" in 45 LC. With slightly hot hand loads (1100fps)/ 255g boolits and the thick Pennsylvania woods I think this is the clear choice. Shots will be less than 70 yards but have read that similar loads will easily get the job done out to 100.

Just wondering...

What made this the CLEAR choice?

I am wondering, because I have the same gun, and it is NOT my clear choice. Matter of fact, it is seldom used for deer hunting, my 44 special's perform just as well and in a smaller gun.

Not saying that it is not sufficient...just wondering about the criteria you used in to make it a "clear" decision.

131436

[vmathias]

Just wondering...

What made this the CLEAR choice?

1. Well for starters a Ruger Super Blackhawk is about $100.00 More than The Blackhawk. Not a huge factor but one to consider when I have mold-powder dies to purchase.

2. I have read many, many reviews and real world experiences with Both the 44 mag and the 45 LC. between the two with handloads the difference is marginal BUT with the slightly bigger caliber equals bigger wound channel. Not a huge difference but a difference all the same.

3. I hunt the thick woods of Pennsylvania which means 90% of the time I am seeing shots at 60 yards or less.

4. From what I have read the LC for what I will use it for will be an equally effective cartridge for my area and terrain.

5. The LC can be run at lower pressures with equal ballistics of the 44 mag which means less recoil, not that recoil is a huge factor but again something to consider on quicker follow up shots.

6. Most important for my personal preference is the history behind the 45 colt and how versatile this round actually is.

I will finish by saying that in NO WAY am I saying that it is a better or more powerful cartridge than the 44 magnum. They each have their benefits. With the bigger diameter and comparing velocities it will do pretty much whatever the 44 mag will do. And with Cost in mind it made it the clear choice for me.

[hornady308]

The Lee 452-255-RF...always a good choice. One of the more accurate boolits out of my OM Vaquero and Rossi 92 with 9 or 10gr of Unique.

[vmathias]

So if you don't mind my asking, what made you go with that vs the 44 mag? I am also a Pa hunter and have contemplate getting into revolver hunting. I just wondered what were the deciding factors that made you go that direction.

I have read many articles and have received advice from a very knowledgeable friend on this very subject. When I first asked him about hunting calibers for a pistol he immediately stated the 45LC due to how versatile the cartridge is. I also read a informative article from John Linebaugh: "The .45 Colt - Dissolving the Myth, Discovering the Legend". A very good read on comparing the 45 LC to the 44 magnum.

[shoot-n-lead]

5. The LC can be run at lower pressures with equal ballistics of the 44 mag which means less recoil, not that recoil is a huge factor but again something to consider on quicker follow up shots.


Okay...thanks...as I said, just wondering.

But, I will tell you up front, there is no difference in recoil between the 44mag and the colt when comparing comparable loads. This "low pressure"..."less recoil" stuff is a joke. If you doubt this...when you get the gun, stoke some up and light'em off...a picture is worth a thousand words. And, I say this after having shot heavy loads in both cartridges for years...they are an equal handful and not fun to shoot more than a few rounds.

Good luck and enjoy.

[vmathias]

Okay...thanks...as I said, just wondering.

But, I will tell you up front, there is no difference in recoil between the 44mag and the colt when comparing comparable loads. This "low pressure"..."less recoil" stuff is a joke. If you doubt this...when you get the gun, stoke some up and light'em off...a picture is worth a thousand words. And, I say this after having shot heavy loads in both cartridges for years...they are an equal handful and not fun to shoot more than a few rounds.

Good luck and enjoy.

I have shot both calibers many many times. Never side by side though so I do not have the experience that you do with these cartridges. I would however think that it would only make sense that firing a bullet of equal weight with less pressure would result in less felt recoil. Again I have no experience with this. Bye the way, That is one sweet looking pistol. Would love to find one is stainless. Dont think Ruger is currently making them.

[shoot-n-lead]

I have shot both calibers many many times. Never side by side though so I do not have the experience that you do with these cartridges. I would however think that it would only make sense that firing a bullet of equal weight with less pressure would result in less felt recoil. Again I have no experience with this. Bye the way, That is one sweet looking pistol. Would love to find one is stainless. Dont think Ruger is currently making them.

Thanks...it is a Williams Supply distributor exclusive (like Lipsey's)...was never a catalog item.

And, I concur, you would think less pressure would equal less recoil...but in the full tilt loads, they are both knuckle busters...not pleasant.

[Lonegun1894]

Good choice, but then again, I have both .44 Mag and .45 Colt and love both. I do have a slight preference for the .45 Colt due to the history involved and also due to having used the .45 for a lot more things over a lot longer time. But both are good choices, and neither really does anything the other doesn't on deer and hog size game.

[richhodg66]

I have a 7 1/2 inch Blackhawk in .45 Colt I like a lot, and I find I seem to shoot the longer barrels better. I doubt they're really more accurate inherently, I just seem to shoot them better.

100 FPS with a 255 grain bullet should do the job from about any angle and reasonable distance. I have found shooting stiff loadings in a Blackhawk that my willingness to withstand recoil and muzzle flash is the limiting factor more than the strength of the gun.

[StrawHat]

...Even the 1873 BP loading behind the hollow base lead round nose is bad medicine for a deer, as it was originally conceived to shoot through the enemy's horse, and still kill the enemy.

Most of the experienced .45 Colt shooters here have been with this caliber for 30+yrs...

DougGuy got my description down pretty good. I was a big Keith fan and had to have a 44 Magnum. 429421 and 2400 powder, I was in Heaven! Used it a few years on Ohio white tails and watched as my hunting buddy was getting quicker stops with similar placement but he was using black powder and the 45 long Colt. It took me a while, but eventually I found that for some reason that combination and either a 5 1/2" or 7 1/2" barrel worked a good bit better. At least for me. I have used a variety f 260 grain bullets and even the 280 grain Keith Group Buy with a full casing of 2 or 3Fg powder. Whichever boolit shoots to the sights is the one I pick. The same boolits and Unique have also been successful. I have not seen the need for, nor tried heavier, nor have I tried lighter. You have made a good choice in cartridges.

I prefer my revolvers to more resemble the SAA as they are lighter and fit my needs.

Kevin

[44man]

I know my Vaquero .45 with a 335 gr and 296 forced me to get Pachmeyer grips. Much more recoil then my SBH with a 330 gr. Gun weight is the difference.
I would prefer 260 to 300 gr boolits in a WLN, WFN or RNFP. The Lee 300 shoots great.
Since the .45 BH will be lighter then a SBH .44, you WILL feel recoil more. I can tell you a .45 can kick the snot out of a big knuckle!

[vmathias]

I know my Vaquero .45 with a 335 gr and 296 forced me to get Pachmeyer grips. Much more recoil then my SBH with a 330 gr. Gun weight is the difference.
I would prefer 260 to 300 gr boolits in a WLN, WFN or RNFP. The Lee 300 shoots great.
Since the .45 BH will be lighter then a SBH .44, you WILL feel recoil more. I can tell you a .45 can kick the snot out of a big knuckle!

Yeah, This definitely will not be a range plinker. I plan on changing out the grip to a hogue and working up a load that will get me to around 1150fps. John Linebaugh stated in an article that his wife has taken many mule deer with a 260G at 950fps at 100 yards. That is pretty damn impressive. He also stated that out to 100 the 45 colt is equal to a 270 through a 3006 for performance and sheer knock down power. Only experience will tell.

[John Allen]

Those big flat bullets are just nasty looking.

[DougGuy]

Once you get to 255gr and above, and handload, the .44 and .45 are pretty much neck and neck to each other in about every way you could compare them. The biggest differences, are on paper. Once you get in the field and start taking game, things like barrel length and optics will matter a lot more than caliber.

I hunted the thick woods of the Blue Ridge mountains in Virginia, and I took more whitetails shooting straight down on them walking under my treestand or angling down on them within 25yds of my stand. My 7 1/2" SBH was pretty cumbersome sitting in a treestand with it crossdraw and bringing it to bear on a deer, so I got a short barreled Vaquero in .45 Colt to use instead. Walking the woods, the big long barrel SBH was right at home, and it adds a good 30yds or thereabouts to my reliable kill distance over the 4 5/8" Vaquero.

[Jevyod]

I have read many articles and have received advice from a very knowledgeable friend on this very subject. When I first asked him about hunting calibers for a pistol he immediately stated the 45LC due to how versatile the cartridge is. I also read a informative article from John Linebaugh: "The .45 Colt - Dissolving the Myth, Discovering the Legend". A very good read on comparing the 45 LC to the 44 magnum.

Sounds great! Thanks for letting me know! I agree there is a certain history that goes with the caliber! Sounds like you made a good choice and I will keep that caliber in mind!

[rexherring]

So far the three mule deer I've shot with my Ruger BH with just about the same spec load you've listed never needed a second shot. I'm shooting the 7 1/2 inch but the 5 1/2 inch should be easier for carry and work great. I'm using an older RCBS 255 SWC mold that drops closer to 265 with WW's. At 1000 fps or more it will penetrate a deer almost lengthwise as I found out when I skinned out one of my deer. Hit it in the chest when it was coming straight at me at 40 yds and the bullet was under the hide in it's rear end.

[vmathias]

Sounds great! Thanks for letting me know! I agree there is a certain history that goes with the caliber! Sounds like you made a good choice and I will keep that caliber in mind!

I will again state that this mostly has to do with the terrain that I hunt,thickets and deep woods. I want a big bullet with moderate velocity hitting hard. If I was hunting the prairies out west and field edges here in PA I would most likely be looking at the 44 mag or 454 Casull for a better velocity and trajectory. Out west it would be hands down the 454. If you have never shot one they are def an experience with full power loads.

[vmathias]

So far the three mule deer I've shot with my Ruger BH with just about the same spec load you've listed never needed a second shot. I'm shooting the 7 1/2 inch but the 5 1/2 inch should be easier for carry and work great. I'm using an older RCBS 255 SWC mold that drops closer to 265 with WW's. At 1000 fps or more it will penetrate a deer almost lengthwise as I found out when I skinned out one of my deer. Hit it in the chest when it was coming straight at me at 40 yds and the bullet was under the hide in it's rear end.

Ballistic tests through gel for the standard 45 Colt are down right scarey. That is a BIG bullet carrying a LOT of momentum.

[Jevyod]

I will again state that this mostly has to do with the terrain that I hunt,thickets and deep woods. I want a big bullet with moderate velocity hitting hard. If I was hunting the prairies out west and field edges here in PA I would most likely be looking at the 44 mag or 454 Casull for a better velocity and trajectory. Out west it would be hands down the 454. If you have never shot one they are def an experience with full power loads.

I understand! Where I hunt, 75 yards is a long shot. Most happen inside of 50. So I believe the 45 would be a very viable option.

[taco650]

I think you've made a good choice too. I own two 44 mags (6" DW & SBH) but have always pined after a Blackhawk in 45 Colt with the 45ACP extra cylinder. For hunting, 44M & 45C are both going to kill the deer dead. Shot placement is key and you sound like you know what needs to be done so go for it!

[pls1911]

Great choice... IMHO the best choice.I highly recommend not trying to max out the load unless you just like recoil.
Big slugs 250-300 grain at 900 fps will still pound about anything walking the lower 48, usually with full penetration.
faster penetration means mire nergy lost to the woods behind...not necessarily more to your intended target.

My overall hunting load had gravitated to the RCBS 270 SAA, (which casts about 285 in my alloy). The flat nose and sharp edges slap poop out of deer and pigs at 900 fps and are quite pleasant to shoot in a 7.5" Blackhawk or Stainless Redhawk. Why beat yourself and your equipment up needlessly?

[Geezer in NH]

Works for me

[vmathias]

Great choice... IMHO the best choice.I highly recommend not trying to max out the load unless you just like recoil.
Big slugs 250-300 grain at 900 fps will still pound about anything walking the lower 48, usually with full penetration.
faster penetration means mire nergy lost to the woods behind...not necessarily more to your intended target.

My overall hunting load had gravitated to the RCBS 270 SAA, (which casts about 285 in my alloy). The flat nose and sharp edges slap poop out of deer and pigs at 900 fps and are quite pleasant to shoot in a 7.5" Blackhawk or Stainless Redhawk. Why beat yourself and your equipment up needlessly?

Yes, The more I research the more I realize the 900-1000fps range is really all I will ever need. I would like to keep pressures WELL below the 30,000 cup that many loads recommend as max.

[DougGuy]

The only thing that I don't like about handgun hunting, is shooting subsonic loads. At 900f/s it takes a boolit a full quarter of a second to travel 75yds. It takes the sound of the gun firing exactly 1/5th of a second to travel that same distance. That means the sound of the gunfire will get to the deer 50msec before the boolit will. That's a lot of reaction time for a wild animal. Enough time for them to put a move on and cause the shot to miss them totally or hit them well outside of where the shooter was aiming.

For the wide flat nose boolit like the RF, there is an optimum velocity that causes the most damage in the wound channel, and this is somewhere between about 1150 and 1300f/s, it seems like faster than this creates a pressure wave that actually pushes tissue away from the projectile and can lessen the wound channel considerably. I strive to launch the boolit so it is right above supersonic when it gets to the target. If I got 1175f/s muzzle, and I shoot a deer 35-40yds away, I am right above the 1126f/s sonic barrier when it hits the target. I don't think going subsonic will upset the RF boolit too bad but at 1150f/s when it hits home, I don't have to worry about it. By comparison, a 12ga slug in flight becomes very unstable when it goes subsonic around 110yds from the muzzle.

I took an interesting shot on a gray fox one evening right at dusk, from a distance of 120yds with a .308 from a Ruger M77 rifle. The fox was stalking the farm cat across a paddock, and in the paddock was a large dirt area with a cowpie in one side of it. I put the scope on the fox, and he stopped at the cowpie to check it out. I fired with both eyes open, I saw the muzzle blast, saw the muzzle rise and fall, at the exact moment the shot broke, the fox turned his head and looked directly at me. He also saw the muzzle flash and skedaddled at warp speed. I never saw the fox run, but the crosshairs were on his shoulder and I did not miss this shot. I walked it off and laid my head down at the boolit strike in the dirt, and looked back uphill to the fencepost I had been sitting against, and the shot was dead on. At 2400f/s, it took 0.15 of a second for the boolit to travel the 360' between the fencepost and the boolit strike. That was enough time for the fox to react, and EASILY outrun the boolit.

[shoot-n-lead]

The only thing that I don't like about handgun hunting, is shooting subsonic loads. At 900f/s it takes a boolit a full quarter of a second to travel 75yds. It takes the sound of the gun firing exactly 1/5th of a second to travel that same distance. That means the sound of the gunfire will get to the deer 50msec before the boolit will. That's a lot of reaction time for a wild animal. Enough time for them to put a move on and cause the shot to miss them totally or hit them well outside of where the shooter was aiming.

For the wide flat nose boolit like the RF, there is an optimum velocity that causes the most damage in the wound channel, and this is somewhere between about 1150 and 1300f/s, it seems like faster than this creates a pressure wave that actually pushes tissue away from the projectile and can lessen the wound channel considerably. I strive to launch the boolit so it is right above supersonic when it gets to the target. If I got 1175f/s muzzle, and I shoot a deer 35-40yds away, I am right above the 1126f/s sonic barrier when it hits the target. I don't think going subsonic will upset the RF boolit too bad but at 1150f/s when it hits home, I don't have to worry about it. By comparison, a 12ga slug in flight becomes very unstable when it goes subsonic around 110yds from the muzzle.

I took an interesting shot on a gray fox one evening right at dusk, from a distance of 120yds with a .308 from a Ruger M77 rifle. The fox was stalking the farm cat across a paddock, and in the paddock was a large dirt area with a cowpie in one side of it. I put the scope on the fox, and he stopped at the cowpie to check it out. I fired with both eyes open, I saw the muzzle blast, saw the muzzle rise and fall, at the exact moment the shot broke, the fox turned his head and looked directly at me. He also saw the muzzle flash and skedaddled at warp speed. I never saw the fox run, but the crosshairs were on his shoulder and I did not miss this shot. I walked it off and laid my head down at the boolit strike in the dirt, and looked back uphill to the fencepost I had been sitting against, and the shot was dead on. At 2400f/s, it took 0.15 of a second for the boolit to travel the 360' between the fencepost and the boolit strike. That was enough time for the fox to react, and EASILY outrun the boolit.

I have shot a few deer in my life and have never had one "jump" the string. Now, I have missed some because they moved...but it was not because they moved from the gun firing and avoided the bullet.

[Piedmont]

For the wide flat nose boolit like the RF, there is an optimum velocity that causes the most damage in the wound channel, and this is somewhere between about 1150 and 1300f/s, it seems like faster than this creates a pressure wave that actually pushes tissue away from the projectile and can lessen the wound channel considerably.

If that were true then .44 Magnum from a rifle and .45-70 from a rifle (let's use the 300 grain load and you may use a cast flatnose, expanding or not) would be poorer big game cartridges than your revolver load. Do you really believe that is the case?

[DougGuy]

If that were true then .44 Magnum from a rifle and .45-70 from a rifle (let's use the 300 grain load and you may use a cast flatnose, expanding or not) would be poorer big game cartridges than your revolver load. Do you really believe that is the case?

Nobody said better or poorer big game cartridge. My comment was specifically about the wound channel from the RF boolit. The velocity I listed produces an efficient wound channel. golfball sized. Same RF at 1600f/s can zip through tissue and not create as much damage IF it creates a pressure wave in front of the boolit.

As far as 900-1000f/s loads, I'm NOT saying anyone is doing anything wrong. Not the point I was intending to make at all. My own preferences are for supersonic loads, for the reasons I explained. That's just how I like to hunt. Doesn't mean it's better or worse than anyone else's way.

[Motor]

After exhaustive research I decided to go with the Ruger Blackhawk 5.5" in 45 LC. With slightly hot hand loads (1100fps)/ 255g boolits and the thick Pennsylvania woods I think this is the clear choice. Shots will be less than 70 yards but have read that similar loads will easily get the job done out to 100.

Well ain't that nice. After starting a 8 page heated debate you choose neither.:bigsmyl2:

[shoot-n-lead]

Well ain't that nice. After starting a 8 page heated debate you choose neither.:bigsmyl2:

NOOBS...they do stuff like that.

[birddog]

VMathias,
The LC is an excellent choice for your needs and in regards to recoil it is dependent more on boolit weight and velocity as pressures have a sharper report and and a general perception to heavier recoil.
Charlie

[vmathias]

The only thing that I don't like about handgun hunting, is shooting subsonic loads. At 900f/s it takes a boolit a full quarter of a second to travel 75yds. It takes the sound of the gun firing exactly 1/5th of a second to travel that same distance. That means the sound of the gunfire will get to the deer 50msec before the boolit will. That's a lot of reaction time for a wild animal. Enough time for them to put a move on and cause the shot to miss them totally or hit them well outside of where the shooter was aiming.

For the wide flat nose boolit like the RF, there is an optimum velocity that causes the most damage in the wound channel, and this is somewhere between about 1150 and 1300f/s, it seems like faster than this creates a pressure wave that actually pushes tissue away from the projectile and can lessen the wound channel considerably. I strive to launch the boolit so it is right above supersonic when it gets to the target. If I got 1175f/s muzzle, and I shoot a deer 35-40yds away, I am right above the 1126f/s sonic barrier when it hits the target. I don't think going subsonic will upset the RF boolit too bad but at 1150f/s when it hits home, I don't have to worry about it. By comparison, a 12ga slug in flight becomes very unstable when it goes subsonic around 110yds from the muzzle.

I took an interesting shot on a gray fox one evening right at dusk, from a distance of 120yds with a .308 from a Ruger M77 rifle. The fox was stalking the farm cat across a paddock, and in the paddock was a large dirt area with a cowpie in one side of it. I put the scope on the fox, and he stopped at the cowpie to check it out. I fired with both eyes open, I saw the muzzle blast, saw the muzzle rise and fall, at the exact moment the shot broke, the fox turned his head and looked directly at me. He also saw the muzzle flash and skedaddled at warp speed. I never saw the fox run, but the crosshairs were on his shoulder and I did not miss this shot. I walked it off and laid my head down at the boolit strike in the dirt, and looked back uphill to the fencepost I had been sitting against, and the shot was dead on. At 2400f/s, it took 0.15 of a second for the boolit to travel the 360' between the fencepost and the boolit strike. That was enough time for the fox to react, and EASILY outrun the boolit.

While this is very possible it doesnt give an animal much reaction time. Also many times when an animal hears a gun shot they have no clue what direction it is coming from. I will agree though that out to further distances a spooked animal will flinch. As far as the Gray Fox goes. That is a small target at 120yards. It is very possible that you had a fur pass through without hitting meat. A round traveling 2400fps at 120 yards is zinging.

[DougGuy]

While this is very possible it doesnt give an animal much reaction time. Also many times when an animal hears a gun shot they have no clue what direction it is coming from. I will agree though that out to further distances a spooked animal will flinch. As far as the Gray Fox goes. That is a small target at 120yards. It is very possible that you had a fur pass through without hitting meat. A round traveling 2400fps at 120 yards is zinging.

I thought huh?????????? When I fired and no fox. This rifle put 3 into a guitar pick @200yds, so I'm confident it did it's part. Fox could have crouched as he took off and it went over his back, could have spun and the boolit went right beside him, so yeah that's possible. I looked for hair and found none. Point is, he got away scot free afaik.. I've had about 3 WAY COOL shots over the years, things you would never in a million years expect to happen, this was one of those.

Good luck with your .45 you will like it. If you need help with cylinder throats, you know how to find me..

[vmathias]

NOOBS...they do stuff like that.

Hmm? I may be a NOOB to the site but I am definitely not a NOOB when it comes to firearms. I've been an instructor for years. ;-). Yes I am a new to revolver hunting and within that debate I learned a lot about all THREE calibers. The 357, 44 Mag AND 45LC. All of your comments on this debate helped me decide. As stated before all comments and info is GREATLY appreciated.

[vmathias]

I thought huh?????????? When I fired and no fox. This rifle put 3 into a guitar pick @200yds, so I'm confident it did it's part. Fox could have crouched as he took off and it went over his back, could have spun and the boolit went right beside him, so yeah that's possible. I looked for hair and found none. Point is, he got away scot free afaik.. I've had about 3 WAY COOL shots over the years, things you would never in a million years expect to happen, this was one of those.

Good luck with your .45 you will like it. If you need help with cylinder throats, you know how to find me..

That is one hell of an accurate cast load. Maybe hitting ya up for some info on that load. :-)

[DougGuy]

This was years before I found this forum, and it is a j-word load. That M77 had been totally inletted, pillar bedded screws and steel bedded with upward pressure at the forend, lapped the bolt lugs, scope rings, bedded them to the action, fireformed brass with 180gr soft point plain base bullets set back .025" from the rifling.

The loads were assembled from 100 fireformed cases, every charge weighed, the ones the bullet seated easy were set aside, the ones that they took a lot of effort to seat were set to the other side, the collet crimped cases were then sorted according to where the crimp ring grabbed onto the case mouth, then each round was loaded into the action and the bolt closed, the loose and the tight ones were set aside, this left maybe 15 rounds that were zeroed at 200yds, out of these I made a 3 shot group that I could cover with a guitar pick from the prone position. I think I still have 3 left and I haven't fired this gun in years.

[vmathias]

This was years before I found this forum, and it is a j-word load. That M77 had been totally inletted, pillar bedded screws and steel bedded with upward pressure at the forend, lapped the bolt lugs, scope rings, bedded them to the action, fireformed brass with 180gr soft point plain base bullets set back .025" from the rifling.

The loads were assembled from 100 fireformed cases, every charge weighed, the ones the bullet seated easy were set aside, the ones that they took a lot of effort to seat were set to the other side, the collet crimped cases were then sorted according to where the crimp ring grabbed onto the case mouth, then each round was loaded into the action and the bolt closed, the loose and the tight ones were set aside, this left maybe 15 rounds that were zeroed at 200yds, out of these I made a 3 shot group that I could cover with a guitar pick from the prone position. I think I still have 3 left and I haven't fired this gun in years.

Ah... I was thinking Cast at 200 yards with that group id phenomenal. I have just started playing with loading cast 100g for my 243. I was VERY impressed at the results the first time out. 80 yards at approx 1750 I was hitting 1.5" groups. Not bad for a start.

[Lonegun1894]

Well ain't that nice. After starting a 8 page heated debate you choose neither.:bigsmyl2:

Just means he fits in, doesn't it? I mean, we all change our minds and then eventually decide to just get one of each. :)

[vmathias]

Just means he fits in, doesn't it? I mean, we all change our minds and then eventually decide to just get one of each. :)

You are correct Sir; I will def acquire all three eventually. :-)

[Motor]

vmathias, My post is intended to be a friendly joke as I'm sure the NOOB one was.

With modern brass and a strong gun like the blackhawk it kind of makes you wonder why there is a 45 Win mag. The LC will serve you well I'm sure.

You really need to add the .500 S&W to that wish list though. It's weight combined with its .500" bore make it a light recoiling hard hitting cast boolit launcher. With the right loads of course.

Motor

[NavyVet1959]

But, I will tell you up front, there is no difference in recoil between the 44mag and the colt when comparing comparable loads. This "low pressure"..."less recoil" stuff is a joke. If you doubt this...when you get the gun, stoke some up and light'em off...a picture is worth a thousand words. And, I say this after having shot heavy loads in both cartridges for years...they are an equal handful and not fun to shoot more than a few rounds.

Recoil is a function of momentum and the mass of the firearm. Assuming the mass of the firearm is the same and the weight and velocity of the .45 vs .44 is the same, the momentum is going to be the same. Momentum is conserved, *not* kinetic energy. Now, given two projectiles of exactly the same weight and velocity and non-expanding bullets (of the same profile), the one with the smaller diameter will have more penetration (greater sectional density). If both bullets can punch a hole all the way through whatever you are hunting, then the bullet with the larger diameter would have an advantage in that it will make a larger wound channel.

For example, you would need about a 268 gr bullet in .451" diameter to equal a 255 gr bullet that was 0.429" in diameter (using the more traditional definition of sectional density of "mass / cross sectional area".

[vmathias]

[QUOTE=Motor;3150013]vmathias, My post is intended to be a friendly joke as I'm sure the NOOB one was.

With modern brass and a strong gun like the blackhawk it kind of makes you wonder why there is a 45 Win mag. The LC will serve you well I'm sure.

You really need to add the .500 S&W to that wish list though. It's weight combined with its .500" bore make it a light recoiling hard hitting cast boolit launcher. With the right loads of course.

Motor[/QUOTE

Oh Heck Yeah Motor, Its all good. I am always up for friendly ball busting. Trust me I have worked in a Prison now going on 20 years. I have busted with the best of them. :-). The 500 would be sweet but I am pretty sure my wife would castrate me if I were to drop that kind of Dough with two kids currently in college, Haha. My max dollar amount right now is around $500. 00... The 45 colt is just one of many pistols I will be purchasing in the future. I will see how she does in the field and make my decision. I was SERIOUSLY considering a 357 mag but after reading many, many reviews both on here and the net I just dont think that will meet the requirements of the 45LC with hand loads. Only time will tell.

[NavyVet1959]

I was SERIOUSLY considering a 357 mag but after reading many, many reviews both on here and the net I just dont think that will meet the requirements of the 45LC with hand loads. Only time will tell.

Well, once you start thinking about a .357 mag, you need to also start thinking about a .357 max... :)

[shoot-n-lead]

Recoil is a function of momentum and the mass of the firearm. Assuming the mass of the firearm is the same and the weight and velocity of the .45 vs .44 is the same, the momentum is going to be the same. Momentum is conserved, *not* kinetic energy. Now, given two projectiles of exactly the same weight and velocity and non-expanding bullets (of the same profile), the one with the smaller diameter will have more penetration (greater sectional density). If both bullets can punch a hole all the way through whatever you are hunting, then the bullet with the larger diameter would have an advantage in that it will make a larger wound channel.

For example, you would need about a 268 gr bullet in .451" diameter to equal a 255 gr bullet that was 0.429" in diameter (using the more traditional definition of sectional density of "mass / cross sectional area".


I understand this on recoil...that is what I said...same recoil.

Also, there is no discernible difference in the performance of these 2 rounds on deer...been there and done that. The deer nor the shooter can tell the difference.

[vmathias]

Well, once you start thinking about a .357 mag, you need to also start thinking about a .357 max... :)

I have heard of the 357 Max but have never seen a pistol in this caliber.

[NavyVet1959]

I have heard of the 357 Max but have never seen a pistol in this caliber.

The .357 max would best be served with a longer barrel to take better advantage of the increased powder capacity.

http://i58.tinypic.com/2nuhd1j.jpg

[vmathias]

The .357 max would best be served with a longer barrel to take better advantage of the increased powder capacity.

http://i58.tinypic.com/2nuhd1j.jpg


Is this a modified 357 mag?

[NavyVet1959]

Is this a modified 357 mag?

The .357 max is the next step up from a .357 mag, just like the .357 mag is the next step up from a .38 special. From the look of it though, Ruger actually produced it in the .357 max caliber.

According to the wiki page, Ruger only made 400 Blackhawks chambered in .357 max.

[hornady308]

Most 357 Maxes I see are just like mine...a 10" barrel on a Contender. I use the same heavy bullets in it that I use in the 35 Remington.

[rexherring]

The .357 max is the next step up from a .357 mag, just like the .357 mag is the next step up from a .38 special. From the look of it though, Ruger actually produced it in the .357 max caliber.

According to the wiki page, Ruger only made 400 Blackhawks chambered in .357 max.

Ruger dropped it due to extreme top strap erosion/cutting from the gas velocity. I have shot the Dan Wesson 357 Max and it's loud.

[sw282]

l just love the 45 Colt ctg. lf S&W would just make a revolver chambered in it..l have a 460 Hunter but accuracy is terrible shooting 45 LC and its just too heavy. Twas not blessed with that royal title ''Magnum''... So l guess l can only wish

[StrawHat]

l just love the 45 Colt ctg. lf S&W would just make a revolver chambered in it..l have a 460 Hunter but accuracy is terrible shooting 45 LC and its just too heavy. Twas not blessed with that royal title ''Magnum''... So l guess l can only wish

sw282,

S&W has made a variety of revolvers in 45 long Colt, the M25-5 (among others) and several stainless versions whose model # escape my memory. I have a 25-5 and with 260 grain bullets it is a good shooter.

Kevin

[taco650]

Is this a modified 357 mag?

Lengthened is a better description IMO. It was developed for IMHSA IIRC, supposedly less recoil than 44mag but still able to drop the 200m rams just as easily. Dan Wesson also had a version in there large frame revolvers and I think more of those were made than what Ruger did. Many guys will get their 357 mag Handi Rifle chambers "stretched" to fit it and get about 300fps (or more) out of the barrel.

On 300gr FP's, I have found that in my 44mag, they need to be up over 1000fps to get decent accuracy and faster is better. I cast the Lee 430 300gr FPGC but haven't had the time to work up a load that is better than "minute of deer" at 50yds. It can be done fairly easily but I just haven't put the time in to make it happen. I'm also a NOOB when it comes to casting so my boolits are probably of lower quality which complicates getting a good load figured out. I'm learning that I need to tune up my casting practices to consistently get good quality boolits.

[nighthunter]

vmathias .... Where I am in Pa. everyone is born knowing a 45 colt is way under gunned for deer. Our deer are so big and tough that a 45 caliber bullet just bounces off them and don't even scare them. I seen a 30mm bullet mold on ebone and I'm thinking that might be the way to go. Recoil might be a bit much but what the heck .... there'll be some shredded meat in the freezer.
All kidding aside, you have made a good choice. A fine handgun and a fine cartridge. What part of Pa. are you located in? I'm near DuBois along I-80.

Nighthunter

[vmathias]

vmathias .... Where I am in Pa. everyone is born knowing a 45 colt is way under gunned for deer. Our deer are so big and tough that a 45 caliber bullet just bounces off them and don't even scare them. I seen a 30mm bullet mold on ebone and I'm thinking that might be the way to go. Recoil might be a bit much but what the heck .... there'll be some shredded meat in the freezer.
All kidding aside, you have made a good choice. A fine handgun and a fine cartridge. What part of Pa. are you located in? I'm near DuBois along I-80.

Nighthunter

Well I was thinking more like 50 Bmg for Pa deer :-). I am near the Williamsport area but about 30 miles below it. I think with a Strong framed Ruger Blackhawk in 255g 45 colt with powder coated boolits I will have more than ample big game power out to 100.

[Swede44mag]

I have a Ruger Super Blackhawk Bisley hunter 44mag in 7.5 inches I packed it last year walking trying to kick up a deer for my buddy the slick wood grips don't work well with gloves on. I am looking into getting some with checkering or something in hard rubber.
I don't like the Hogue grips made for a SA Ruger they don't fit my hand like my DW grips.

I am still looking for a Ruger Super Blackhawk Bisley Hunter in 45Colt.

I have taken deer with a S&W 44mag and a Taurus in 454.
The deer I hit with the 44mag made it about 15ft it was a running shot from left to right about 10ft in front of me.
The Taurus 454mag was about 50yards in front of me I hit it a little to far back and had to track it in the snow over 300 yards.

No matter what you shoot it is all about bullet placement.

Good luck hope the 45Colt works out for you.

[alamogunr]

Oh Heck Yeah Motor, Its all good. I am always up for friendly ball busting. Trust me I have worked in a Prison now going on 20 years. I have busted with the best of them. :-). The 500 would be sweet but I am pretty sure my wife would castrate me if I were to drop that kind of Dough with two kids currently in college, Haha. My max dollar amount right now is around $500. 00... The 45 colt is just one of many pistols I will be purchasing in the future. I will see how she does in the field and make my decision. I was SERIOUSLY considering a 357 mag but after reading many, many reviews both on here and the net I just dont think that will meet the requirements of the 45LC with hand loads. Only time will tell.

Don't sweat it, vmathias. I had to hold off until both sons got thru college and that was after both had doctorates. Even with help they both had student loan debt. Now I get pretty much what I want and have for about 20 years. Amazing how age tempers your wants. My last purchase contradicts what I just said though. It was a custom five shot .45 Colt and I don't even hunt. For some of us just shooting and owning is enough.

[44man]

Starts with a 4 and don't worry, just make a good shot.

[kaiser]

For me, the standard velocity .45 Colt is a most "pleasant" and effective "round". I've shot .454's, .500's (S&W and Desert Eagle), .460's, .44 magnums, and .45 Colt (max loads out of the "old" Blackhawk frame) and my "hats off" to those that enjoy their power! I, however, do not enjoy shooting them like I do the standard .45 Colt at around 900 to 1000fps. I got rid of my old Blackhawk .45 and .44 mag because "loading them down" to me was like driving a "NAS car" to pick up groceries at the "One Stop" (get a lot of "lookers" though). And, I own a Beretta Stampede (7 1/2") that I knew that sooner or later would be visited by one of my "hot" reloads from the "big" frame Ruger (little, self restraint here[smilie=l:). My solution to gain more velocity (extra 300+ fps) was to trade other guns and purchase (kids graduated from college years ago) a Uberti 1873 Short Rifle in .45 Colt. This rifle and cartridge has given me more enjoyment than any "magnum" has in the past, pistol or rifle. I have had the best of luck with Lee's 255gr mold and RCBS's 270-45, whose bullet weighs about 280gr with my lead "mixture". The 270-45 will not feed very well in the rifle (none of the SWC's seem to make the "turn" into the chamber easily), but are very accurate in the Beretta and a "new model" (small frame) Vaquero. My favorite loads, besides the often quoted "Unique" ones, are 10.5 to 11.0gr of AA5, 16.5gr of 2400, 17.0gr SR4759 (favorite in rifle, as well), and 12.9gr of Blue Dot (Note: "Standard loading precautions apply!), and shoot close to POA. If I could only have one pistol (pure heresy!) it would in a .45 Colt, not to take anything away from those of you who prefer other calibers.
Sorry for the long post and long time since my last visit (your kind "birthday" notice "highlighted" my neglect). Regards, Kaiser

[vmathias]

For me, the standard velocity .45 Colt is a most "pleasant" and effective "round". I've shot .454's, .500's (S&W and Desert Eagle), .460's, .44 magnums, and .45 Colt (max loads out of the "old" Blackhawk frame) and my "hats off" to those that enjoy their power! I, however, do not enjoy shooting them like I do the standard .45 Colt at around 900 to 1000fps. I got rid of my old Blackhawk .45 and .44 mag because "loading them down" to me was like driving a "NAS car" to pick up groceries at the "One Stop" (get a lot of "lookers" though). And, I own a Beretta Stampede (7 1/2") that I knew that sooner or later would be visited by one of my "hot" reloads from the "big" frame Ruger (little, self restraint here[smilie=l:). My solution to gain more velocity (extra 300+ fps) was to trade other guns and purchase (kids graduated from college years ago) a Uberti 1873 Short Rifle in .45 Colt. This rifle and cartridge has given me more enjoyment than any "magnum" has in the past, pistol or rifle. I have had the best of luck with Lee's 255gr mold and RCBS's 270-45, whose bullet weighs about 280gr with my lead "mixture". The 270-45 will not feed very well in the rifle (none of the SWC's seem to make the "turn" into the chamber easily), but are very accurate in the Beretta and a "new model" (small frame) Vaquero. My favorite loads, besides the often quoted "Unique" ones, are 10.5 to 11.0gr of AA5, 16.5gr of 2400, 17.0gr SR4759 (favorite in rifle, as well), and 12.9gr of Blue Dot (Note: "Standard loading precautions apply!), and shoot close to POA. If I could only have one pistol (pure heresy!) it would in a .45 Colt, not to take anything away from those of you who prefer other calibers.
Sorry for the long post and long time since my last visit (your kind "birthday" notice "highlighted" my neglect). Regards, Kaiser

Like I stated in my last posts I dont plan on Maxing out a load to get top velocity. I will most likely purchase some "Unique" with the 255G Lee boolit and play with that load combo to get me around 1100fps. Obviously accuracy will be the deciding factor with Velocity. A little more a little less. May dabble with Hodgon H110 as well.

[1bluehorse]

Like I stated in my last posts I dont plan on Maxing out a load to get top velocity. I will most likely purchase some "Unique" with the 255G Lee boolit and play with that load combo to get me around 1100fps. Obviously accuracy will be the deciding factor with Velocity. A little more a little less. May dabble with Hodgon H110 as well.


To get "around 1100fps" you'll be better off with something like A2400 as Unique is a bit fast for that level....use the Unique for loads in the 850 to 950fps area....I personally don't like loading more than 9gr. of Unique behind a 255-260gr. bullet...also, the H110-W296 are great for "max" power loads (Ruger only) but doesn't like being "downloaded".....the most accurate powder in 45 colt "normal" loads I've ever shot was with 13gr. Blue Dot with the Lee 255gr. bullet.....doesn't quite make your "1100fps" but is a very good load none-the-less....JMO of course...great handgun, great caliber....

[DougGuy]

^^^^ Good stuff! Hard and fast rule with H110/W296 (same EXACT powder, made in the same plant) is do not download it at all. Use this when you are loading for Griz and you will be well served with it. Unique gets very scary in .45 Colt at 10.0gr and above, it can be spiky and most unpredictable, if 9.0gr ain't doing it for you switch to a different powder rather than keep trickling the Unique. When I do use Unique, it's for traditional cowboy loads, 8.0 - 8.5gr at the most.

Powders that work really well in .45 Colt for 75% - 90% power are 2400 and LilGun both of which can be tailored to a warm mid-level load with 255gr boolits, but probably work best with 280gr boolits.

[jonp]

I bought a used one off of gunbroker for $400 that a guy used in cowboy action and was getting out. It has the long barrel. I've been playing with lighter 200 and 230gr target loads and it is fun. Much more enjoyable than the 357 recoil wise. I started in with the 454190 for a heavier boolit and had good luck with linebaugh loads just for kicks then came down a great deal. The Lee 452255 is great but I've been experimenting with the 452252 and have found it very good. I think any of these would be more than adequate for whitetail up your way. The 300gr Lee can be a little much recoil wise but if you can stand it it is a good one as Dougguy said.

Many guys here and elsewhere swear by 2400 in this gun and caliber. I've had just as good luck with Unique for low to mid range loads and H110 for the top end. IMO you will not have to go much higher than Unique loadings and the 252-255 boolit for whitetail but to each his own. Like many I've gone past my Loud-n-Boomer days and prefer a few steps under max and accuracy over speed and recoil

[vmathias]

To get "around 1100fps" you'll be better off with something like A2400 as Unique is a bit fast for that level....use the Unique for loads in the 850 to 950fps area....I personally don't like loading more than 9gr. of Unique behind a 255-260gr. bullet...also, the H110-W296 are great for "max" power loads (Ruger only) but doesn't like being "downloaded".....the most accurate powder in 45 colt "normal" loads I've ever shot was with 13gr. Blue Dot with the Lee 255gr. bullet.....doesn't quite make your "1100fps" but is a very good load none-the-less....JMO of course...great handgun, great caliber....

The further I looked into Unique I noticed that would be topped out under the velocity I want. Your input is greatly appreciated sir.

[gon2shoot]

Aw well, I guess I'll chime in here. I'm pretty new at this handgun stuff myself, but when I started shooting the Ruger SBH in 72 I was convinced I'd found the premier hunting hand gun. For several years I ran a bunch of different loads through it, some were well beyond any published data. Target and test work was done at 200 yds or less, but varmints were taken beyond that with regularity. (I remember when I could see a pop can at 200 yds).
Anyway, about 20 years ago somebody gave me a Ruger 45 colt. It sat for a few years till I got bored and started playing with it. Long story made short, my go to gun now is a 5 1/2 Blackhawk in 45, for me it fits, is a natural pointer, with a 255 gr. boolit over 17gr of 2400 will kill anything I feel like killin.
So my thoughts on the 44 vs 45 debate? Ain't got any. The 45 feels good in my hand and does what I want to do.
My advice, when you choose a gun, pick the one that suits you. No amount of recoil, ballistic, internet guru, smell test etc. amounts to a hill of beans if you don't shoot it well

[JSH]

Longshot may have a use for the speed you are looking at.
I have only used it in the 41 mag and 327 thus far. But it shot so well I grabbed another pound. If all goes well as I think it will an 8 lb jug will be on my list.
Jeff

[5.7 MAN]

So if you don't mind my asking, what made you go with that vs the 44 mag? I am also a Pa hunter and have contemplate getting into revolver hunting. I just wondered what were the deciding factors that made you go that direction.

If you handload and want a revolver the blackhawk 45 colt is hard to beat and with a 45 acp cylinder you can walk into any Walmart and buy a box of cheap 45 acp ball ammo to practice with. even if you don't handload I suppose you could put a couple boxes of buffalo bore 45 colt ammo on the shelf and still practice with the 45 acp.

I load an RCBS 255KT swc at 1000 fps for hunting.

[jonp]

The further I looked into Unique I noticed that would be topped out under the velocity I want. Your input is greatly appreciated sir.

With the 45 Colt and the heavy boolit velocity is not king. Momentum is.

[45cal.scott]

45lc is a great choice. I shoot 250 gr lrnfp in front of 9.5 to 10.0gr of Unique through a
Ruger New Model Blackhawk 7 1/2 barrel, and the northern wisc whitetails hate it.
When hunting thick brush, and shots out two 75 yrds or so you cant beat it.
I don't think you'll ever regret your choice

[NavyVet1959]

With the 45 Colt and the heavy boolit velocity is not king. Momentum is.

Without velocity, momentum is nothing...

Without mass, momentum is also nothing...

Of course, sectional density also comes into it... Theoretically, you could have a projectile that had such a large flat plate that it would not penetrate the skin of an animal even if it was the same mass and velocity of a normal bullet. The impact is spread over a large enough area that the skin will not break.

[jonp]

I had the physics class, navyvet. My point was that with a large boolit in 45lc you dont need max loads to get truely awesome penetration. The larger the boolit the slower you need to push it to a reasonable point of course.

[DougGuy]

The larger the boolit the slower you need to push it to a reasonable point of course.

There is NO reasonable point in this ideology, it is flawed. USE a heavy boolit, but for Pete's sake, don't LOB it at the deer, SHOOT him with it!

[vmathias]

With the 45 Colt and the heavy boolit velocity is not king. Momentum is.

At this point pistol powders are pretty hard to come by. I have a list of powders for the 45Lc so whatever is available I will buy and work up loads to around 1000fps give or take whatever is the most accurate.

[jonp]

There is NO reasonable point in this ideology, it is flawed. USE a heavy boolit, but for Pete's sake, don't LOB it at the deer, SHOOT him with it!

That's why I put the "reasonable point" in. It is not flawed.

E = 1/2mv(squared). Lower the mass and you need to raise the velocity to get the same Energy and vice versa which follows my point. Increase the mass of the boolit and you can lower the velocity for the same energy.

It calls for common sense and what you are going to use it on or for. A whitetail is thin skinned and will not require a loading that a grizzly would although you could use the same 45 Colt for both. I also figured that I did not have to mention the trajectory of a heavy, slow moving boolit being a little different from a high speed projectile.

[vmathias]

That's why I put the "reasonable point" in. It is not flawed.

E = 1/2mv(squared). Lower the mass and you need to raise the velocity to get the same Energy and vice versa which follows my point. Increase the mass of the boolit and you can lower the velocity for the same energy.

It calls for common sense and what you are going to use it on or for. A whitetail is thin skinned and will not require a loading that a grizzly would although you could use the same 45 Colt for both. I also figured that I did not have to mention the trajectory of a heavy, slow moving boolit being a little different from a high speed projectile.

If I was using a 300 plus grain boolit I wouldnt worry as much about velocity. With a 255G boolit I want the velocity a tad higher to shoot a little flatter and hit as hard as the higher grain boolits do. I am not interested in cowboy type loads. When I start loading them up I want a round that will be equally effective on Black bear as it would on whitetail. I also plan on using this for coyote. Coyote are very skittish and FAST. I want moderate velocity to take one out to 75 yards.

[Lonegun1894]

That's why I put the "reasonable point" in. It is not flawed.

E = 1/2mv(squared). Lower the mass and you need to raise the velocity to get the same Energy and vice versa which follows my point. Increase the mass of the boolit and you can lower the velocity for the same energy.

It calls for common sense and what you are going to use it on or for. A whitetail is thin skinned and will not require a loading that a grizzly would although you could use the same 45 Colt for both. I also figured that I did not have to mention the trajectory of a heavy, slow moving boolit being a little different from a high speed projectile.

I think the main message here is that you need to make sure you use enough gun, but that doesn't mean that you need to use max loads for everything. Yes, they have their place and need, but are you going to use one load for everything in this gun, or are you going to match it to what happens to be in season? Also, and this may be a whole new can of worms, but there comes a point where you drive a bullet fast enough that additional speed actually decreases penetration due to over expansion.

Let me put it another way, there are several reasons we all work up loads instead of just loading whatever the manual says is max and going with that for all our uses. I understand the desire for an effective load, but the .45 Colt with the proper hunting bullet and a decent load is head and shoulders above what the old black powder loaded round nose .45 Colt was, and it was no slouch to begin with when you look at the performance it gave, instead of just looking at the numbers. Out to 75 yards, the trajectories of the same bullet going 1000 fps and 1200 fps aren't that different. Performance on game also isn't, but pressures in your gun and recoil are. I'm not saying use weak loads, but realize when you use top loads, that for most things, you really don't need to. Then again, we all do things our own way, so work up a load you like and have faith in and go make meat.

[vmathias]

I think the main message here is that you need to make sure you use enough gun, but that doesn't mean that you need to use max loads for everything. Yes, they have their place and need, but are you going to use one load for everything in this gun, or are you going to match it to what happens to be in season? Also, and this may be a whole new can of worms, but there comes a point where you drive a bullet fast enough that additional speed actually decreases penetration due to over expansion.

Let me put it another way, there are several reasons we all work up loads instead of just loading whatever the manual says is max and going with that for all our uses. I understand the desire for an effective load, but the .45 Colt with the proper hunting bullet and a decent load is head and shoulders above what the old black powder loaded round nose .45 Colt was, and it was no slouch to begin with when you look at the performance it gave, instead of just looking at the numbers. Out to 75 yards, the trajectories of the same bullet going 1000 fps and 1200 fps aren't that different. Performance on game also isn't, but pressures in your gun and recoil are. I'm not saying use weak loads, but realize when you use top loads, that for most things, you really don't need to. Then again, we all do things our own way, so work up a load you like and have faith in and go make meat.

I have absolutely zero experience with the 45 LC. I do understand that it is a Big heavy slug and with big heavy slugs it is unnecessary to push to maximum velocities. Some of the heavier max loads and or Buffalo bore are pushing near 1400fps. These loads are obviously designed for much bigger game Elk, Bear protection etc...I want a good "in between" load 950-1100fps to give me ample speed and energy up to black bear sized game. Accuracy will be the main deciding factor. If 950 gives me better accuracy that 1100 that is what I will stick too. I dont believe calibers have to be pushed to maximum to be absolutely effective. Reloading J words for my 243 I run medium of pressures and velocities as that is what my rifle likes for small groups. 950fps is still giving me more than ample energy out to 100 yards to humanely take game...

[Lonegun1894]

For what it's worth, I volunteered to take out a friends bull that had taken to charging people in the 100 acre wooded "pen" that the friend used to keep him in. Not the brightest idea, but it's not the only stupid thing I have done. Using a WDWW 255gr SWC out of my .45 Colt Vaquero, pushed with 10.0 grs Unique so should be just over 1K fps, I shot the bull in the forehead when he dropped his head to charge, and we found the bullet at the back side of the diaphragm. It penetrated the skull, took out several vertebrae, went through the heart/lung cavity, and got caught just on the other side of the diaphragm. That may be close to a top load of Unique, but definitely not the to[ end of performance that the .45 Colt is capable of, but you get the idea of what it's capable of on deer and such. I still think you made a great choice, or at least it's one of my favorites.

[vmathias]

For what it's worth, I volunteered to take out a friends bull that had taken to charging people in the 100 acre wooded "pen" that the friend used to keep him in. Not the brightest idea, but it's not the only stupid thing I have done. Using a WDWW 255gr SWC out of my .45 Colt Vaquero, pushed with 10.0 grs Unique so should be just over 1K fps, I shot the bull in the forehead when he dropped his head to charge, and we found the bullet at the back side of the diaphragm. It penetrated the skull, took out several vertebrae, went through the heart/lung cavity, and got caught just on the other side of the diaphragm. That may be close to a top load of Unique, but definitely not the to[ end of performance that the .45 Colt is capable of, but you get the idea of what it's capable of on deer and such. I still think you made a great choice, or at least it's one of my favorites.

That just put things into perspective. That is phenomenal penetration. How far was the shot?

[Lonegun1894]

That shot was at 10-15 yards. I knew it would penetrate the skull or break a shoulder if that was the shot I was presented, but I was not expecting that kind of penetration. Now don't laugh, but I volunteered to go find that bull cause I figured it may be the closest to a cape buffalo hunt I will ever get to go on.

[reloader28]

Another "cow story".

We load 10gr Unique behind the Lee 300gr. Drops at close to 320gr.
A friend had a dead cow and saw a coyote chewing on the but end of it. He shot the coyote from behind at about 50yds with his pistol and it basically turned the coyote inside out. The boolit went thru the coyote, thru the cow lengthwise until it hit a front leg bone, then turned and went down into the mud right about 12".
That well over 5'of coyote, dead cow and mud. The boolit was air cooled COWW and you could almost load it back up again. It had a ding where it hit the leg bone.

[Pipefitter]

I have used the 45LC in a 7.5" Ruger Blackhawk on Michigan whitetails for many years, 2 at once? Just gotta wait for them to line up just right.
250gn bullets swaged with 1/2" copper tubing jackets will punch through 1/4" diamond plate at 1,000fps.
My gun prefers IMR4227 over Unique with jacketed bullets.

[kenyerian]

H110 is my go to powder for hunting loads and the Lyman 452651 325 grain boolit.

[taco650]

Another "cow story".

We load 10gr Unique behind the Lee 300gr. Drops at close to 320gr.
A friend had a dead cow and saw a coyote chewing on the but end of it. He shot the coyote from behind at about 50yds with his pistol and it basically turned the coyote inside out. The boolit went thru the coyote, thru the cow lengthwise until it hit a front leg bone, then turned and went down into the mud right about 12".
That well over 5'of coyote, dead cow and mud. The boolit was air cooled COWW and you could almost load it back up again. It had a ding where it hit the leg bone.


No selling that pelt... ;-)

[Lonegun1894]

Another "cow story".

We load 10gr Unique behind the Lee 300gr. Drops at close to 320gr.
A friend had a dead cow and saw a coyote chewing on the but end of it. He shot the coyote from behind at about 50yds with his pistol and it basically turned the coyote inside out. The boolit went thru the coyote, thru the cow lengthwise until it hit a front leg bone, then turned and went down into the mud right about 12".
That well over 5'of coyote, dead cow and mud. The boolit was air cooled COWW and you could almost load it back up again. It had a ding where it hit the leg bone.

I have the Lee 300gr mold, but haven't shot any game with it yet. I was impressed with the penetration my 255s give me, but yours makes mine look like a plinking load. I'm going to have to take that bullet hog hunting and see if I can get a hog to stop it. I doubt it, but if at once you don't succeed, try and try again, right?

[taco650]

I have the Lee 300gr mold, but haven't shot any game with it yet. I was impressed with the penetration my 255s give me, but yours makes mine look like a plinking load. I'm going to have to take that bullet hog hunting and see if I can get a hog to stop it. I doubt it, but if at once you don't succeed, try and try again, right?

And what would that load be??? Inquiring minds want to know. ;-)

[NavyVet1959]

Well, after setting the bullet a bit deeper, I tried my .45 SUPER +P+ (https://sites.google.com/site/navyvet1959/miscellaneous/glock-21-45-super-p-conversion) load in my BH's .45ACP cylinder this evening using .45 ACP brass. Had to set the bullet slightly deeper to get to to chamber, but I had set it a bit long since the Glock for which I had done the original conversion had a longer throat.

Didn't check for accuracy or velocity -- just fired it in my garage at my bullet trap to see how the Bisley felt with a stout load. These weren't max .460 Rowland level loads, maybe halfway between starting and max loads and with a cast lead bullet instead of the jacketed bullet in the published load. End result -- it goes bang, it has a bit of recoil, and it didn't blow up in my hand.

[DougGuy]

Dang I know I hear about seating deeper in an auto but a Ruger cylinder? I know who can fix that! :bigsmyl2:

[Lonegun1894]

And what would that load be??? Inquiring minds want to know. ;-)

Sorry, didn't mean to leave you hanging. I started at 5.0grs Unique just to start, and worked up to 8.0grs Unique. I haven't worked up a load with 2400 yet, but expect it to outperform the Unique based on previous experience with other boolits. My usual load with 252/255gr Lee and the 270gr RCBS SAA boolits is 10.0 grs Unique. The 255 and 270gr boolits get 18.0grs of 2400. Not a top load per the loading manuals, but my guns like it and are accurate with it.

[9.3X62AL]

The "cow stories" above lend credence to stories from the time of the 45 Colt's development in which its blackpowder loading of 40 grains of 3F under a 255 grain round flat-nose bullet was intended to shoot through a cavalry mount and inflict injury on an enemy using said mount for cover. Those BP loads from the issued 7.5" barreled Colt SAA were good for 1000 FPS. THAT is a service sidearm!

[NavyVet1959]

Dang I know I hear about seating deeper in an auto but a Ruger cylinder? I know who can fix that! :bigsmyl2:

Yeah, but I haven't decided yet... The Lone Wolf barrel that I have in my Glock will chamber these loads, but the 24 lb spring driving them into the chamber might have something to do with it... :) They will not chamber in any of the M1911s that I have -- which is probably a good thing since they are not converted for the (.460 Rowland level) .45 SUPER +P+.

[Dusty Ed]

Vmathias
I'm from the Mainville Sportsman Club An have several friends at the club who retired correction officers .
I have quite a few 45 colts rifles and hand guns , I mostly shoot 255 gr. rnfp with 5.0 grs of Clays I can hit Bowling pin at 100yds with
my 7 1/2" Ruger Vaqueros. (no brag just fact)
Any you can hit with it will go down.
If you would like come out meet with me when the snow clears and it warms up a little bit.
Just email me edbergen@hotmail.com
Here is the clubs website address
www.mscrange.org.
Go to the Buffalo rifle shooting match or to the Cowboy Action shooting match site and look up Dusty Ed that is me.
Dusty Ed

[vmathias]

Vmathias
I'm from the Mainville Sportsman Club An have several friends at the club who retired correction officers .
I have quite a few 45 colts rifles and hand guns , I mostly shoot 255 gr. rnfp with 5.0 grs of Clays I can hit Bowling pin at 100yds with
my 7 1/2" Ruger Vaqueros. (no brag just fact)
Any you can hit with it will go down.
If you would like come out meet with me when the snow clears and it warms up a little bit.
Just email me edbergen@hotmail.com
Here is the clubs website address
www.mscrange.org (http://www.mscrange.org).
Go to the Buffalo rifle shooting match or to the Cowboy Action shooting match site and look up Dusty Ed that is me.
Dusty Ed

Well heck I live in Bloomsburg. I am sure we know some of the same people. It would be great to meet ya.

[NavyVet1959]

Vmathias
I have quite a few 45 colts rifles and hand guns , I mostly shoot 255 gr. rnfp with 5.0 grs of Clays I can hit Bowling pin at 100yds with my 7 1/2" Ruger Vaqueros. (no brag just fact)

With iron sights? Hell, a good portion of us around here (myself included) would be doing good to even *see* a bowling pin at 100 yards.

[TXGunNut]

Point is, the 45 (not Long) Colt doesn't need to be hot-rodded to be a great hunting round. But it can be hot-rodded to do everything the mighty 43 Mag can do, indeed very close to the Springfield 45-70 loads. With proper boolits and shot placement the 45 Colt will get the job done, been doing it for over 140 years.

[Dusty Ed]

Howdy vmathias
I'm sure we do.
Some of the local folks Rod Bardo( Bardo Tires) Denny Jaskowisc (CJ Contractor) Curt (Curt's Gunshop)
Like I said just email me edbergen@Hotmail.com

[Dusty Ed]

Howdy Navyvet
I'm a Navy Vet too 1957 to 1960
At 100yds it looks like a bowling pin but at 300yds. it looks like small white stripe , I can hit regularly at 300 with my 4570 or 5090
Sharps with iron sights ,of course that is off the bench , the hand gun at 100yds is standing off hand. (No brag just fact)
Dusty Ed

[NavyVet1959]

Howdy Navyvet
I'm a Navy Vet too 1957 to 1960
At 100yds it looks like a bowling pin but at 300yds. it looks like small white stripe , I can hit regularly at 300 with my 4570 or 5090
Sharps with iron sights ,of course that is off the bench , the hand gun at 100yds is standing off hand. (No brag just fact)
Dusty Ed

If it was this bowling pin, I could probably see it at 100 yds:

http://www.trippyfood.com/wp-content/gallery/world039s-largest-bowling-pin/23-worlds-largest-bowling-pin-02.jpg

[vmathias]

Howdy Navyvet
I'm a Navy Vet too 1957 to 1960
At 100yds it looks like a bowling pin but at 300yds. it looks like small white stripe , I can hit regularly at 300 with my 4570 or 5090
Sharps with iron sights ,of course that is off the bench , the hand gun at 100yds is standing off hand. (No brag just fact)
Dusty Ed

That makes 3 of us. 1992-1996 Norfolk Va. USS America-CV66

[BwBrown]

Hey guys, been following the thread. I am in the Sullivan County PA woods with 45 Colt in both Red and Blackhawk. While I have'em all, the 45 is my goto choice. With them a hit is a hit... when it is nearly a half inch on the way in, who neds expansion? I even slow them down a bit from max speed with little observed lacking in effectiveness.

[DougGuy]

That makes 3 of us. 1992-1996 Norfolk Va. USS America-CV66

vmathias, you ever get into the bars there in Norfolk and see a southern/classic rock band called Blue Lords? I played bass with those guys 1993-1999 we rocked a LOT of sailors back in them days..

[vmathias]

Hey guys, been following the thread. I am in the Sullivan County PA woods with 45 Colt in both Red and Blackhawk. While I have'em all, the 45 is my goto choice. With them a hit is a hit... when it is nearly a half inch on the way in, who neds expansion? I even slow them down a bit from max speed with little observed lacking in effectiveness.

I travel through Sullivan Count every few months and on up through Dushore to New York. Sullivan County has some of the most Beautiful land in PA. I think I am making a wise choice with the 45LC.

[fifty4]

Remington made a 45 SHORT colt back in the late 1880s

[vmathias]

vmathias, you ever get into the bars there in Norfolk and see a southern/classic rock band called Blue Lords? I played bass with those guys 1993-1999 we rocked a LOT of sailors back in them days..

Didnt really make it in the bars much. I was deployed to the Med most of the time that I was there. Spent A year in a half on the ship...

[goofyoldfart]

RE: DustyEds comment on the range of 100yds.---don't knock it. I used to shoot 100yds. with a 357mag. in a 6" s&w at 1 an 2 liter plastic bottles and have consistent hits. Of course that was when I was competion shootin (won a few bucks on silly bets) and could still see. It use to insult some rifle shooters especially when they didn't know what the heck they were doing, you know shoot half a box of ammo and then they were ready TO GO HUNTIN'. Sorry to say today with retinal macral degen I'm doing good to see 50yds. iron sights. All I can say is God Bless OPTICS. and all this was with a puny 357maggie. God Bless to all and theirs.

Goofy

[NVScouter]

I had the physics class, navyvet. My point was that with a large boolit in 45lc you dont need max loads to get truely awesome penetration. The larger the boolit the slower you need to push it to a reasonable point of course.

Your physics are flawed. A rapid expanding soft core JHP over its limits yes...but that's not what is happening here. A .358 110g JHP in my .357 Herret at 2500fps does things to a jackrabbit that aren't for weak stomachs.

Its my go to revolver with 4-7 3/4" barrels for carry while a field. My plinker load is the LEE 255 with Unique (over book I wont post) runs about 1100fps. My long barrel Ruger Blackhawk loves that LEE 255 over a max load of R7 sited in at 75y any deer under 125y is toast. I also use Lil'Gun loads and the LEE 340g for 1200-1300fps depending on barrel for bear loads.

Any of these loads on deer will not expand, neither do they destroy meat. I don't go lower than 255g any more for accuracy at velocity..its a matter of bearing surface to pressure. A 200g would be fine for deer into the 1600fps range if you can get it to shoot. I had some 135g button boolits that wouldn't shoot over 600fps, but in theory if they did and could be pushed to 2100fps they would hammer deer with lots of meat damage. Velocity does matter as well as boolit diameter, nose profile, boolit construction, and weight. That 255g in the 1100-1500fps range is a flat shooting, hard hitting, deep penetrating beast. It is still a great boolit in the 800-900fps range but you loose the trajectory.

Sited in at 75y put the front ramp in the low chest for 50y, at 100y just under the back skyline. Under 50 just aim dead on and over 100y I create a small gap of light. Shooting rifle targets isn't an issue (with my eyes yet) out to 300y. It just takes range time and ammo.

Last fall I shot a big mule deer doe with my plinker load and 4" Redhawk at 40y. .45 in, .47(ish) exit no real meat loss, short 5y run and piled up dead. That boolit went through her barely slowing down and off to the next county.

[taco650]

NVScouter,

Did I read your post right? You put R7 in your 45LC?

[CPL Lou]

He's not the only one using RX7 in the Colt.
I've got great accuracy and excellent velocities using RX7 in both my Ruger Bisley and Marlin Cowboy (24" bbl).
I use a magnum primer to help it burn a bit better.
Using RCBS 270 SAA (weighs 287 grs with my alloy) and a starting load of 26 grs.
I've taken it to 27.0 grs without any strain on either gun.
These were worked up in a 16" Winchester Trapper.
Federal 155 primers.



Wt.
Bullet
Powder Manufacturer
Powder
Charge
Velocity (FPS)


255
Lee flatnose
Alliant
RL-7
27.0
1,505


300
Speer flatnose
Alliant
RL-7
26.0
1,266


Remarks: accurate


300
LBT
Alliant
RL-7
26.0
1,290


300
Hornady JHP (rifle)
Alliant
RL-7
27.0
1,376


Remarks: accurate


340
Lee roundnose
Alliant
RL-7
26.0
1,351

[Tar Heel]

Gentlemen.....place your shot carefully and the deer will never know if you hit it with a 45 Colt, a 44 Magnum, or a .32-20 bullet.

[NavyVet1959]

Gentlemen.....place your shot carefully and the deer will never know if you hit it with a 45 Colt, a 44 Magnum, or a .32-20 bullet.

Yeah, but what about the deer *behind* it?

.45-70 -- for when you want to be absolutely sure that you brought enough gun...

[CPL Lou]

castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?237622-Paco-Kelly-load

www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/45coltlevergun.htm

Another thread on using Reloder 7 in the 45 Colt.

CPL Lou

[TXGunNut]

NVScouter,

Did I read your post right? You put R7 in your 45LC?


Been reading a bit about that, one of my favorite powders in one of my favorite cartridges. Looks like something I need to try.


Thanks for the data, CPL Lou.

[BAGTIC]

Lower pressure does not automatically guarantee less recoil. A crude approximation will be bullet weight + powder charge X velocity. There are on-line calculators that will compute with more finesse but for comparison this is generally close enough.

[BwBrown]

I'm also in PA, the mountains of Sullivan County. I have revolvers in 357 magnum, 44 special, 44 magnum and 45 colt. I really enjoy my Ruger Redhawk in 45 Colt. For me the decision is firearm based rather than caliber.
Smaller calibers rely on velocity to insure expansion. Our 45 Colts enter at nearly a half inch! No expansion needed.
Beyond all the other arguments, the major consideration comes down to placement, placement, placement.

[NVScouter]

Lower pressure does not automatically guarantee less recoil. A crude approximation will be bullet weight + powder charge X velocity. There are on-line calculators that will compute with more finesse but for comparison this is generally close enough.

well they don't take in bore size or gun weight. I've shot 2" .357s that are way worse than a full size 45.

I had to put down my ram yesterday after it attacked my daughter again. I shot him in the forhead with my LEE 255/Unique load. Came out the bottom jaw entered right shoulder, exited the belly by his testicles and burried it's I the ground. Total of 28" in boolit travel in the ram. Meat bone, full wool etc.

its why why I slaughter with a .22 that medium heavy load will do anything you want in North America.

[utahtrapper]

Pic of the 45 Colt family143076143077143076143077

[utahtrapper]

Any one shoot the 280gr WFN BTB. Under 24 grain H 110
Thinking I could drop down to 22grains and still get the job done on elk this fall with either the Cowboys or the Bisley?
The 24gr. Came out at 1300 fps.:veryconfu and they are not what I would call fun to shoot.

[GoodOlBoy]

Dad got me hooked on the 45 long colt more than 20 years ago. I've only ever regretted it back in the days when he decided to "push" it to match and go beyond performance of a 45-60. Those loads hurt on both ends let me tell you, but were safe in modern blackhawks. These days dad is still a big fan of the 270 grain Keith bullet at .454. Me? I have a OLD Lee single cav mold that is marked 454-255 RF. It has long since been discontinued and the new molds are all 452-255 RFs. But let me tell you I have used both and while my guns prefer the .454s, the .452s work well as well.

As for performance? About half a dozen years ago I decided to go talk a walk in the woods during deer season. Not to hunt per-say, as my hunting had been so off that year I hadn't seen anything worth shooting at, but instead just to get out of the house and enjoy fall weather. I slid the old blackhawk into the holster on my belt after double checking she was loaded and away I went. The problem was I had forgotten that what I had loaded in her were .454-255s loaded down to cowboy loads that I had been using for target practice. Well no sooner than I had started my walk good I jumped a little spike buck. I settled down a bit and after a few more yards decided to "camp out" at the base of a old pine tree overlooking a spring that ran into a creek. A few minutes later the spike came loping back through and not far behind was a nice little buck running him out of "his" territory. The old 5.5" blackhawk barked and the second buck dropped like a rock. Dead right there as they say, but I knew something was off because of the lack of recoil. I field dressed the little buck and drug him up the hill before laying my jacket on him (hoping the scent would keep the coyotes off of him) and headed for home to get the pickup. Well the little buck got butchered, and placed in the freezer, I got cleaned up, and decided to investigate the loads in my blackhawk. That's when I found I had popped him with a "cowboy" load. That 255gr RNFP cast lead bullet that had been pan lubed with homemade lube had done the job at just over 35 yards without so much as a hiccup. It had passed completely through the buck without hardly slowing down, but it sure did it's job. A 45 long colt is good good medicine for whatever you need it to do, and in a carbine or rifle? It's just pure magic on just about any critter you have a hankering to take. Nope that day in the woods was the day that began the end of my career in "hot" 45 long colt loads. After all, I didn't need them.

God Bless.

Richard

[Djones]

Thank you all for sharing your stories.

OP have you landed a 45 colt yet?

Right now I am playing with a 7.5" Bisley SBH and the Mihec ruger only weighing around 327 grains, loaded over 19 grains of IMR4227. It is moving along at 960 fps. I can't believe how mild and accurate the load is. I too am excited to hit the woods this fall with my Bisley.

Here is a picture of the ruger only on the left and a 44 mag on the left.
http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt124/duckwhackercmon/28520EEB-4E69-4F9D-857F-499D30CD0CBE.jpg (http://s604.photobucket.com/user/duckwhackercmon/media/28520EEB-4E69-4F9D-857F-499D30CD0CBE.jpg.html)

[Motor]

Any one shoot the 280gr WFN BTB. Under 24 grain H 110
Thinking I could drop down to 22grains and still get the job done on elk this fall with either the Cowboys or the Bisley?
The 24gr. Came out at 1300 fps.:veryconfu and they are not what I would call fun to shoot.

Fun to shoot ????

You should try the 440gr Cor Bon cast bullet loads for the 500 S&W. Simply Brutal !!!!!

The 500 with my cast Lee 440gr and 13gr of Unique is fantastic !!!!! Can't wait for deer season. :)

Motor

[jonp]

Your physics are flawed. A rapid expanding soft core JHP over its limits yes...but that's not what is happening here. A .358 110g JHP in my .357 Herret at 2500fps does things to a jackrabbit that aren't for weak stomachs.

Its my go to revolver with 4-7 3/4" barrels for carry while a field. My plinker load is the LEE 255 with Unique (over book I wont post) runs about 1100fps. My long barrel Ruger Blackhawk loves that LEE 255 over a max load of R7 sited in at 75y any deer under 125y is toast. I also use Lil'Gun loads and the LEE 340g for 1200-1300fps depending on barrel for bear loads.

Any of these loads on deer will not expand, neither do they destroy meat. I don't go lower than 255g any more for accuracy at velocity..its a matter of bearing surface to pressure. A 200g would be fine for deer into the 1600fps range if you can get it to shoot. I had some 135g button boolits that wouldn't shoot over 600fps, but in theory if they did and could be pushed to 2100fps they would hammer deer with lots of meat damage. Velocity does matter as well as boolit diameter, nose profile, boolit construction, and weight. That 255g in the 1100-1500fps range is a flat shooting, hard hitting, deep penetrating beast. It is still a great boolit in the 800-900fps range but you loose the trajectory.

Sited in at 75y put the front ramp in the low chest for 50y, at 100y just under the back skyline. Under 50 just aim dead on and over 100y I create a small gap of light. Shooting rifle targets isn't an issue (with my eyes yet) out to 300y. It just takes range time and ammo.

Last fall I shot a big mule deer doe with my plinker load and 4" Redhawk at 40y. .45 in, .47(ish) exit no real meat loss, short 5y run and piled up dead. That boolit went through her barely slowing down and off to the next county.
Have not revisited this thread for some time. My physics are not flawed, they are what they are. With your fast 357's ever hear of shock wave v wound channel?

A jhp is a far different animal than pb

[John Allen]

After exhaustive research I decided to go with the Ruger Blackhawk 5.5" in 45 LC. With slightly hot hand loads (1100fps)/ 255g boolits and the thick Pennsylvania woods I think this is the clear choice. Shots will be less than 70 yards but have read that similar loads will easily get the job done out to 100.


I think that would be a great combo to PA. I am doing the same thing but with a 44mag.

[StrawHat]

...That's when I found I had popped him with a "cowboy" load ... God Bless ... Richard

Care to share the ballistics of the "Cowboy" load?

Kevin

[pls1911]

It's been said...
250 gr RNFP or the 270gr RCBS SAA boolits and
9.0 to 10.0 gr. Unique
Makes life simple.

[Land Owner]

Got my 7.5" barrel Ruger Super Blackhawk in Convertible 45 ACP/45 Colt from a drawing for only a $5 entrance fee...hehe. Loaded with Unique I took a 120# hog at 21 yards, straight through both shoulders and DRT. Many buffalo succumbed to 45 Colt boolets.

After working for several hours reloading 380 ACP then shifting to the 45 Colt, one is astounded by the Elephant Size of that slug by comparison.

[Blacktail 8541]

I use a lot of the Unique standard 8.5 grains level loads. But I also have a higher performance load that I really am fond of. It consist of VVN110, under a 260 to 285 grain LFNgc in Starline brass and lit by a WW lg pistol primer or cci 350. This load runs just about 1100fps and is superbly accurate in the 3 handguns that I run it in. A S&W 625-7 , ruger NM flat top and a FA 97. I also run it in a Marlin 1894 20in cowboy competition lever. Velocity is in the mid 1800s. Accuracy is out standing.

EDIT to add I have both a 260 and 285 grn LBT LFN moulds. The 260 is cut with a nose specifically for the FA 97

[David2011]

I was contemplating the 7.5" barrel but for carry I am only 5'8. I figured the 5.5 barrel would be much easier to negotiate while carrying. Havent purchased yet though and am still considering the 7.5. If it shoots that much better I will go that route.

Like you, I'm also 5'8" as well, carry a 7-1/2" Blackhawk in .45 Colt when in the field and am one of those that has had a gun in .45 Colt for over 30 years. Springfield on this site (http://www.whyteleatherworks.com) made me a drop loop belt and holster so the hammer wouldn't be in my armpit when I draw. His work is very nice.

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David

[DW475]

After reading all the good info on the 45 Colt posted here, i'm regretting that i never picked up one of those Ruger Super Blackhawk Hunters that came out in 45 Colt. Seen a used one on one of the auction sites listed at $800 but figured for that kind of money i'll just see if i can find a Ruger with a 7.5" barrel in stock somewhere and get it shipped to my FFL holder.