just got a Lee 8mm Mauser mold...

[xsquidgator]

This is kind of a duplicate thread so forgive me, I originally posted this in the moulds forum under an existing thread on 8mm Mauser. But asking here seems to make more sense to me.

Here's my situation - I just bought a Lee 8mm Mauser 170 grain mould and made some for the first time yesterday. Today finally they are sized and lubed and I'm rarin' to work up a load with them. But I'm a little unsure of the best way to seat the 170 grain bullets it makes...
What's the best bullet seating depth for this bullet? (I don't have any load data for this bullet, I was going to back off of published load data for 170 grain jacketed bullets and work from there.)

It just didn't look right when I made an inert test round with the bullet seated so as to cover all the lube grooves (cartridge on the right side). The cartridge just looks wrong, it's way too short. Also, when seated this way, the base of the bullet is down at the bottom of the case shoulder, making me think that this bullet is seated too deeply. (With 150 JSPs I'd made, my only previous 8mm Mauser reloading experience, the base of the bullet only went to the bottom of the neck)
http://wagneth.googlepages.com/cast8mmmauser170gr-I.jpg

Seating the bullet so that the base of the bullet is about where I'd expect it, some of the lube grooves are exposed (left side of picture). I tried seating the bullet further out of the case so that the bullet would be closer to the rifling and more accurate, but the picture on the left seems to be about the least amount of bullet I can get away with being held by the neck tension.

So, if you were using this cast bullet, would you seat the bullet to one of these two depths, or something else? I don't have any load data for 170 grain lead bullets so I'll be working up a load from something safely below the published loads I do have for 170grain jacketed bullets.

[xsquidgator]

Oh, and the gas checks are missing on purpose, I'll be using the cream of wheat trick in lieu of a gas check.

[Larry Gibson]

Seat them as on the left with the base not lower than the case neck. W/o GCs I suggest 6.5 gr Bullseye and leave out the COW.

Larry Gibson

[Newtire]

Your seating depth will probably be determined by wehn the boolit touches the rifling so if you can seat it out that far then go for it. Mine needs seating just a little deeper but seems to work fine. I have had great luck using 17.5 gr. of 2400 or 12 grains of Unique. It seems to be a great boolit.

[xsquidgator]

Thanks for the advice! Couple of extra questions...

1) Larry- why would you leave out the COW? I was planning to use it to eliminate and even clean up leading and the bore, without having to concern myself with precise sizing and lubing. I lubed these bullets with Lee liquid alox, although I don't think that's really necessary if one used COW. I also sized them through a .323" die, although my bore may be as much as 0.325". If I understand correctly this would mean I'd be more prone to leading with an undersized boolit?

2) Newtire - Unique in a rifle? That's great if I don't misunderstand you, I still have a pound of Unique lying around. Any problems with it? I started reloading pistol with Unique but replaced it with W231 because of inconsistent metering. It also turned out for me anyway that Unique was pretty dirty although I didn't care too much about that.

[WyrTwister]

Thanks for the advice! Couple of extra questions...

1) Larry- why would you leave out the COW? I was planning to use it to eliminate and even clean up leading and the bore, without having to concern myself with precise sizing and lubing. I lubed these bullets with Lee liquid alox, although I don't think that's really necessary if one used COW. I also sized them through a .323" die, although my bore may be as much as 0.325". If I understand correctly this would mean I'd be more prone to leading with an undersized boolit?

2) Newtire - Unique in a rifle? That's great if I don't misunderstand you, I still have a pound of Unique lying around. Any problems with it? I started reloading pistol with Unique but replaced it with W231 because of inconsistent metering. It also turned out for me anyway that Unique was pretty dirty although I didn't care too much about that.

I would barely seat the bullet then chamber the round . Gently , caredully close the bolt , then gently extract the round . If the bullet stays in the brass , measure it and see if it it will work in the magazine . If not , seat it to max magazine length .

If the bullet wedges in the chamber , poke it out with a cleaning rod .

Repeat the experiment , but start with the bullet deated short and gradually seat them longer , untill you find the max length that works .

I shoot Unique in .45-70 , not supprised it is used with cast lead in 8mm Mauser .

God bless
Wyr

[Larry Gibson]

Thanks for the advice! Couple of extra questions...

1) Larry- why would you leave out the COW? I was planning to use it to eliminate and even clean up leading and the bore, without having to concern myself with precise sizing and lubing. I lubed these bullets with Lee liquid alox, although I don't think that's really necessary if one used COW. I also sized them through a .323" die, although my bore may be as much as 0.325". If I understand correctly this would mean I'd be more prone to leading with an undersized boolit?

Never found a need to put COW in a bottle necked case. Also it nor any other wad or filler is needed with Bullseye. Also my experience with cast bullets that are made for GCs and used with out them are best shot below 1150 fps. I'd also shoot them as cast if they will chamber when seated to the bottom of the neck. The Unique load will be a good one if a GC is used. I'd also suggest honing out the sizer to throat diameter.

Larry Gibson

[Newtire]

2) Newtire - Unique in a rifle? That's great if I don't misunderstand you, I still have a pound of Unique lying around. Any problems with it?

Alot of guys here got me going on using Unique in reduced rifle loads. You have to watch it though as these reduced powder charges can have some pretty high pressures. You ought to maybe search a few threads here on using Unique. Lots of good info. I use it in just about every caliber I can think of including medium/heavy 12 ga. field loads down to light trap loads.

Today I used it in my .32-20 pistol loads and in some light .30-30 loads using 7.5 gr. and the Lee "Soup Can" 113 gr. RF. Makes a real nice plinker load in most .30 cal.

[NVcurmudgeon]

WyrTwister has the right idea about adjusting seating depth. There are so many different Mauser throats that there is no hard and fast answer. I have used the Lee 175 in a 1933 Obendorf (very long throat) and a VZ24 and a Yugo 1938 (both of these have shorter throats.) I seat to touch the lands at first, provided it's not too long for the magazine. With that as a starting point, I adjust for best accuracy. Usually, I wind up with magazine length.

Nineteen gr. 2400 (1600 fps) and no filler needed because 2400 is not position sensitive. Fillers vs. no fillers has started wars on this board. If I was going to use a filler, COW would be the last choice. COW was voted the second worst tasting cereal in the world by all three of us kids. I would never feed it to a rifle I liked. The worst was a hot cereal named "Zoom" which tasted like copper.

[cbr]

I shoot the same bullet out of a yugo mauser. As Newtire said, I found 12 grains of unique to be a great target and plinking load. I never had much luck without the gas check though, mine shot much better with the gas check. I also have excellent luck with this bullet in front of 27.5 grains of 3031, thats my hunting load. I also use LLA, and seat them so the crimp groove, and just one lube groove is showing. Works great for me.

[Slowpoke]

Nineteen gr. 2400 (1600 fps) and no filler needed because 2400 is not position sensitive. Fillers vs. no fillers has started wars on this board. If I was going to use a filler, COW would be the last choice. COW was voted the second worst tasting cereal in the world by all three of us kids. I would never feed it to a rifle I liked. The worst was a hot cereal named "Zoom" which tasted like copper.


Well I can't comment on anything 8 mm but the secrete to good COW cereal is to poach two fresh eggs in it .

I was reading thru a 1906 Ideal handbook the other day and found it interesting that DR Hudson was using COW back then in some of his loads.

good luck

[xsquidgator]

Hmm, I'll have to think this stuff over.

I tried using Cream of Wheat as an improvised gas check of sorts in some pistol bullets. Under chamber pressure it seems to get compacted into a really dense and hard mass against the base of the bullet, acting as a gas check. It also apparently has enough abrasiveness to clean out any existing leading in a barrel. Definitely got my 357mag bore as clean as it's ever been. So far I've tried it in 357mag and 45ACP, and am looking forward to seeing about it in some rifle loads.

[xsquidgator]

Still thinking. I went out and tried some cotton/cream of wheat loads for 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R 167 grain cast boolits this weekend. Put in up to 26 grains of BL-C(2) for the x39, or up to 44 grains for the x54R, a dab of cotton above that to fill up the remaining case volume to the bottom of the neck, and then a dab of cream of wheat to fill up the case neck, then seat the cast boolit on top of that. Accuracy was crap at 50 yards, but they all fired ok if dirty and I'll go from there (maybe my boolits are 0.001" undersized after running through a 0.311" sizer). As has been my experience though, no leading! And no problems with cream of wheat or crud fouling my SKS's gas tube. I don't have a chronograph, so no idea if these bullets are moving slow or fast or about right. Felt recoil in the 7.62x54R wasn't bad, maybe about like a commercial 180 grain Prvi Partizan load.