How to price out a sporterized Enfield?

[gkainz]

How does one get a valuation on a sporterized Enfield? Is there someone in the Denver area that knows Enfields and doesn't kick a guy out of the store for "ruining an antique"? Full disclosure - I didn't do it! It was that way when I got it! That's my story and I'm sticking to it! :)

Perhaps some might recall that I posted photos a while back in this thread

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?168511-303-but-what-is-it

where it did get some nice comments.

I'm simplifying, downsizing, standardizing on fewer calibers (and need some cash to cover a new 1911 that showed up in my safe before the CFO finds out I broke our agreement on "one old one goes before a new one comes home") :)

[funnyjim014]

The sporter job is very welldone but in the end is still a sporterized 303.very hard to put a price on it.

[KLR]

One method to figure out a value is to check Armslist and Gunbroker for similar rifles.
This is the nicest one I found on Gunbroker:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=468731320

[RustyReel]

Very nice rifle, no Bubba job on that one for certain. One piece stock, very well done. I agree with the two previous posters but it is difficult to find many "comps" for a rifle that nice. If you post it on an auction site please point us toward the listing. I know I can't afford it but I would like to watch the listing and see where it goes! Good luck.

[gkainz]

Thanks, guys. I'll ponder this for a bit longer. I have a friend that's really into older military rifles and just shakes his head at any modifications, so not much help there.

[BigEyeBob]

Wish you were on this side of the pond ,I would buy that rifle in a heartbeat.

Ive been lucky I've been able to sneak the last four purchases past the Missus , my gun safe is out of bounds to her as she is not a licensed gun owner
and is not allowed access to the safe by law. (good law actually).
Got my eye on another Enfield sporter , calling tomorrow to do the business,hopefully I wont be caught out by the Missus

Kev.

[RustyReel]

Thanks, guys. I'll ponder this for a bit longer. I have a friend that's really into older military rifles and just shakes his head at any modifications, so not much help there.

Those guys bug me. There are a whole lot more raggady originals out there that these guys think are somehow sacred then there are nicely done sporters like this one..........

[John Allen]

I can only say I have never seen an enfield go for the money they got into it. I watched a really nice one that was similar to the one posted and it brought $350.00 at auction.

[groovy mike]

It is worth exactly what you can get for it. In my opinion a sporterized enfield is worth less than half the value of an original. An all original #5 is a $500 gun. A sporterized version is a rifle suitable for riding behind the seat of a pick up truck for when you need one. Maybe $200 if it shoots well. Less if not. But beauty is in the eye of the buyer. You might find someone who loves the way this one looks and wants to pay more for the modifications than for an original.

[RustyReel]

GK, $200??? I'll do $200 plus shipping any time you want to part with it......$500 for a #5, not from me.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Typically what I have seen in my limited experiences with Enfield Sporters and Military Rifles in general is that the cheaper Parker Hale Sporters,,, which I have one for sure, and maybe two if my first one was actually made by them and not Bubba, run between $200-300 US for the Standard #4 and Deluxe #4 rifles. I paid $200 for my #4 Mk1, which would have been a Standard model, and $235 for my #4Mk1* which is the Deluxe version. These were the most common Sporterized Enfields out there and there was a lot of them modified to that configuration by Parker Hale. Basically Utility Class Generic Guns for use at the "common man level."

The one KLR posted looks like it will sell for $295.

Your rifle was done by some Custom Gunsmith and as such the value will be whatever the right person is willing to pay and really the only way to find that out is to put it up for auction.

The only problem I see with selling that gun is that white fore end cap! It makes the gun look amateurish and detracts immensely from the overall look of the gun, and more properly all the work that was put into the gun. Unless it is made from real Ivory I would spend some time or a few bucks and make it black just so I wouldn't drive potential buyers away before they see the rest of the fine work that was done to complete this gun. If it is Ivory I would remove it and sell it separately as it is probably worth more than the gun itself.

As far as a fair or final price ? Only the Market can decide that, as there will be no comparables to base a price on.

As much as I hate to say it, Enfield Sporters are not that popular, and as such they don't command higher prices. The higher values all seem to rest with high condition Military rifles, or Sporting Rifles made by the factories or bespoke versions by high end English gun makers that have put their names on the guns. Theses gun all have one thing in common and that is that they have some history attached to them, and that is what drives their value.

Mutts like the ones I have are going to be valued as shooters and as such will be lucky to break $300-400 no matter what is done to them.

My .02

Randy

[gkainz]

My friend who turns up his nose at sporters offered $200 and would run it thru the gun show to resell ...

However ... do I have a problem here with this rifle and reselling? Where is the serial number on Enfields? And a sale involving shipping would have to go thru a FFL, right?

Does any more detailed discussion need to go to PM?

[W.R.Buchanan]

The place where the serial number is normally placed on an Enfield, the side of the butt socket, has been removed from that gun. The maker should have put another serial number on it some where obvious.

As far as selling the gun You would have to ship it to an FFL. You don't have to ship from an FFL,,, however it might bring you peace of mind to do so.

Randy

[RogerDat]

If it is a nice looking accurate rifle in the 30 caliber family I would think it should be priced similar. The fact that it was made from what was originally a military style Enfield is interesting for conversation but does not seem to be relevant as a comparator. Groups are 1.5 inch at xxx yards and looks good, functions smooth who the heck really cares about the ancestry? Not horrible to "wreck" an original which for all we know might have had garbage for stock. Not wonderful that it is now lighter and more elegant looking.

Ask yourself is it worth as much or more than a black synthetic stock "value" or "budget" bolt action rifle of similar caliber? If it is significantly less accurate then it is worth less but one would hope that a good barrel was selected before putting all that work into it. If it is as accurate it certainly is nicer looking (without that white blob even more so). I would not sell it for $200 if it was mine and a accurate out to 200 yards. Don't forget the person offering you $200 is figuring to make a profit. If you know them well enough to trust them then maybe you can go halves on the profit over a minimum price at a gun show. Sort of a consignment arrangement. I would still set that minimum price based on the market for other wood stocked used bolt actions around 30 cal. but I'm not an authority.

[pietro]

The place where the serial number is normally placed on an Enfield, the side of the butt socket, has been removed from that gun. The maker should have put another serial number on it some where obvious.




The OP's rifle is a .303 British Pattern 1914 Enfield rifle, a 98 Mauser derivative , which didn't have a receiver socket like the .303 British Short Magazine Lee Enfield (SMLE) does, to receive the SMLE's 2-piece stock.

What will hurt the resale value of the OP's Enfield, besides the oddly-colored FE tip, is the chambering - the .303 is very popular in Canada and other British population centers, not so much in the US.

I would opine that the OP's rifle would be hard-pressed to bring more than $300, +/-, IOW: shooter value.

Since there's generally a butt to fit every seat, it could concievabley bring a bit more in a well-attended/online, guns-only, auction.


.

[W.R.Buchanan]

pietro: Sorry,,, but the gun is indeed a modified #4 Mk1. Goto the link on his OP and look at the pictures. Pretty easy to see what it is from those pics.

I do agree with pretty much everything else you said.

Randy

[KLR]

Here's another data point: Today I was at a gun shop and looked at a sporterized 1917 Enfield. The metal was original, but the stock slimmed and refinished. The price tag was $389. It hadn't been reblued and I didn't look at the bore. Chambering was 30-06.

[BigEyeBob]

It is worth exactly what you can get for it. In my opinion a sporterized enfield is worth less than half the value of an original. An all original #5 is a $500 gun. A sporterized version is a rifle suitable for riding behind the seat of a pick up truck for when you need one. Maybe $200 if it shoots well. Less if not. But beauty is in the eye of the buyer. You might find someone who loves the way this one looks and wants to pay more for the modifications than for an original.

Not all Lee Enfields were military rifles some were made into sporters by BSA , Jeffery and Hollands to name a few .
Parts left over from the military production were used to build sporters for sale to the shooting public .
Much like the Martini Cadets , 60,000 were built as military training rifles for the Australian Govt , but many more were built as sporters and target rifles.
I have just acquired (today) a BSA factory custom built Lee Enfield on a Metford action with three leaf express sights and a five shot magazine .The magazine is not a 10shot box cut down but a purpose made 5 shot .


Thousands of Enfields were sold off cheaply after the war in Australia ,Canada and the UK , at one time they were the most popular rifle for sporting use in Australia.
They were cut down and used by professional shooters (kangaroo shooters) and the like.
As far as sporterising them goes I don't care much for the military pattern ,I lugged one around for five years when I was in the Army Reserves.
A 12 lb rifle soon gets to wiegh 20 lbs after a 30 mile hike through semi desert country ,I could have easily thrown that hunk of junk away many times.
There are plenty of preserved ones in the Australian War Memorial museum and thousands of others in original condition in other museums and private collections the world over.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a sporterised LeeEnfield or Martini Cadet . Some call it " Bubbaed "or some thing If the work is of a good standard I say its been improved.
So if you want to sporterise /improve your Enfield I say go for it ,you'll get a much more useful rifle from it.If you don't then that's ok as well.

Kev.

[pietro]

pietro: Sorry,,, but the gun is indeed a modified #4 Mk1. Goto the link on his OP and look at the pictures. Pretty easy to see what it is from those pics.

I do agree with pretty much everything else you said.

Randy

Thanks, Randy !

OP: I apologize for my error.

My bad - I clicked on the wrong link ( KLR's, post #3, above) to view what I thought was the rifle that the OP referred to.......

It is, indeed, a sporterized British SMLE.

DOH ! :D


.

[303Guy]

It is, indeed, a sporterized British SMLE.Ummm ... actually, it's not an SMLE either, it's a No5, apparently.:wink: It has the lightened Knox Form and the hollowed bolt knob of the No5 but of course, that could have done to a No4. I can't tell from the photo's of the action body though.

[gkainz]

Hi 303guy
Would different photos help to clarify anything? Should there be marking under the side mount scope mount on the left side of the receiver?
Greg (op)

[RogerDat]

Well I don't know about not being popular, finding 303 British ammo was not exactly easy for awhile so some folks must have them. Are they as big as the AR's nope but not exactly an odd rifle for people to own either. Last gun show I think pretty much everyone selling brass had some for the 303. They don't haul it there if it won't find buyers.

Unless there is some history to this specific version of sportorized it won't appeal to the Enfield aficionados that own multiples. But to my mind a nice bolt action rifle .30 caliber 2,400 fps has to be worth at least $300 to $400 if it is accurate. I would be surprised if it was a tack driver but with the other work done it may well be an especially good shooter for an Enfield.

[303Guy]

Hi 303guy
Would different photos help to clarify anything? Should there be marking under the side mount scope mount on the left side of the receiver?
Greg (op)http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/No4Mk1005_zpsfec0e43a.jpg (http://s388.photobucket.com/user/303Guy/media/No4Mk1005_zpsfec0e43a.jpg.html)

More photo's would help yes. They would also be great just to look at.:mrgreen:

I don't have a No5 so I am not familiar with the differences between the action bodies. Perhaps someone with sample of each could post photo's to enlighten us?

The one above is my recently acquired Mk1 which has the same bolt release as yours. The woodwork is not quite what one might expect or prefer but the bore looks good under the dirt (I haven't cleaned it yet) and the bayonet lugs have not been cut off.

[gkainz]

aha ... sadly, that area is under the side scope mount that I don't really want to pull off.

On a side note (not sure to say "positive" or not) ... I had a little bit of time at lunch to run it over to the range to shoot up the remaining 10 rounds I have (had) for it. But ... and this shocked me ... the remaining 5 Norma rounds I had left stuck to the magnet when they did their ammo check for rifles - "no steel or A/P ammo" ... but these were standard looking jacketed rounds. Box said "Norma No 17712 303. BRIT. 150 grain soft point"

So, only got to shoot 5 rounds of Remington 180 gr soft point core-loct

Using an NRA 200 Yard High Power target (Simulates 600 yard slow fire), the combination of trifocal glasses and tired old eyes, and I couldn't make out the scoring rings ... so held for center of the black blob and managed to keep them all on paper. Not a group I "usta could" shoot, but this getting old stuff is full of surprises :)

So anyway, here's the best I could do today, with apologies to the rifle, whom I'm quite certain has a lot more potential than I was able to exhibit today.

131990

[JeffHolt]

I came home with a 1917 Enfield III (4 digit serial number) metal and parts looks to be original and matching. The stock was obviously trimmed down and the rear sight replaced and a scope mount added. bore is in surprisingly fine shape. The dealer wanted $149 for it so it followed me home. I'm pretty pleased with it actually. Another guy told me back in the 50' and 60's the catalogue companies got hold of all these mil-surp guns and sporterized them for the civilian market. no checkering or nice end caps or anything on the stock fairly simple and good condition.

[starmac]

I find it funny that folks would go buy any number of firearms of less quality but scoff at one like this that has had some serious work to actually make it an extremely usable gun. Everybody has there own ideas of what something is worth, and to me this is worth more than any original wall hanger.
At the gun shows around here, it would have a 600 price tag on it, and I doubt they would come off much.

[KCSO]

Around here $300 to $350 tops. As nice as it is and as much work thT went into it you still have a sporterized 303,
and worst of all it's modified so that it can't be put back to a full #5 which are bringing a premium.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Starmac: there is a group of guys who think Enfields are some rare commodity that must be preserved in their original form or else God will punish them. They made 17 Million of these guns!

I look at it this way and I personally think this is the only way to look at this issue.

If the gun is above 75% condition then it probably could be left alone. If it can be restored by only cosmetic work then sure it can be restored. So many of the Enfields we have seen over the years simply look BAD! But when you dig deeper you find they are so marginal that they can't be restored without a complete arsenal rebuild.

You don't have the proper stamps to do this.

Also I find that a lot of the purists think just be cause a gun looks like it has been thru a war that it has some big history attached to it.

News Flash: If you can't document that history,,, it doesn't exist in the real world, and as such no value can be placed on it. In collecting firearms,,, "documentation" is everything!

A gun may have killed a prominent German General, however when the war was over it just got thrown onto a pile of guns and all of it's history was lost. IE; it is worth no more than any other gun in that pile.

When a gun is worked on, if that work improves that gun, that is a good thing. Just because a gun has been sporterized it's value shouldn't be dropped to nothing. When you are talking custom guns the workmanship is where the value is at.

If your gun was a BSA Lee Speed or a gun produced by one of the prominent British Gun Makers it would certainly be worth a bunch. If the workmanship is really good then it should fetch a higher value.

Griffin & Howe produced some very nice Springfield Sporters, as did Niedner, Hoffman, and some others. Everyone of them is worth more than the best most pristine issue grade Springfield rifle, unless that gun has some documented history attached to it.

Mausers are the same way. Literally millions of them have been converted to sporting rifles, and the workmanship, and who did it, are the factors driving their value.

Enfields will go up in value,,, Even the sporterized ones. it all comes down to the value of other guns, because as those guns find places in the real world there becomes a market for other guns.

Mosin Nagants are very popular right now. And the British guns are coming up because the Springfields, and Mausers are drying up.

Try to buy either of these for $300. Both made by American Gunsmiths.

Randy

[starmac]

I just traded for a #4 MK/3 (F) FTR That I think only the wood has been altered, sooooo I guess it could be put back to original. However for my use it is worth more to me with the cut down stock. At least I can see the sights on this one, I have an old VZ24 that the original sights are absolutely useless for these eyes of mine. lol

[303Guy]

Well said, Randy. I have one or two Lee Enfield's that strictly speaking should be chopped and changed but I can't bring myself to do it. I must say that the SMLE losing the clip charger bridge is not too bad at all. I want to lighten the bridge, after all, all it has to do is carry the scope mount base or a rear open sight and yes, it does work - if the U notch is correctly sized.

[BigEyeBob]

Nice rifles Randy very nice , they have the traditional English sporter profile which I like very much , the one standing on the butt stock looks to have a modified magazine maybe a cut down to five shot.
I prefer no bridge on the SMLE 's side mounted are much more practical , because it allows you to use the iron sights if the scope is damaged .
A QD side mount is even better , but they are far and few .
I got my BSA LeeMetford 303 yesterday and have been toying with it today it was shipped with the butt stock removed to conform to Aus posts package limits .
I put it back on and that wierd stock that I wasn't too crazy about actually fits pretty good and my eye is just about spot on the sights I'm pretty chuffed with it .Maybe the maker wasn't too far off after all.
Rifle is in very good condition , bore is excellent , bluing is very good , a bit worn on the magazine bottom but to be expected .Nice flip up express sights , front sight is a blade with a protecting blade on each side of it .
I bought a vintage side mount to put a scope one it but may not end up doing that .
Tested the safety on the bolt , there is a bit of a problem with it which I will have to give some attention to , will have to investigate further .
133653133654133655

Kev.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Kev:

Very nice looking rifle. I think you done good.

The rifle on the buffalo is a #4 Mk1 in .45-70 cal. The other is a #1 made by Lon Paul noted gunsmith. It is in .348 Winchester.

Both are excellent examples of what can be done with these guns. The basic Enfield action, be it #1 or #4 is pretty much bullet proof and dead reliable, and the only problem I see with them is the amount of time you must put in one to smooth them out. This is all part of the fun.

The problem they have as popular sporting arms in the US is the fact that all the good commercial ones were kept in the UK and British Colonies, and the only ones which seemed to make their way to the US were the ugly ducklings that showed up at the local drug store for $9.95 and looked like they had been dragged behind a Jeep.

The only Enfield Sporting Rifles we ever saw were Parker Hales simple conversions which didn't do much to fuel the desire for Nice Sporting Rifles made on these actions. Both my guns started as converted guns done most probably by PH. This one I'm working now for sure was a PH "Deluxe Sporter." Which is nothing more than a Long Branch cut to 22" with a new front sight and abbreviated and reshaped fore end. More like a Crescent Wrench than a nice sporting rifle.

If the US public had been exposed to Lee Speed Rifles or conversions done by upper end British Makers things would be different and these guns would occupy a different place more in line with sporterized Mausers and Springfields.

Part of my mission is to show what can be done with readily available after market stocks, and newer finishes and hopefully spark some interest in these guns as more inexpensive alternatives to work on than Mausers or Springfields. None of the other 20th Century Military Rifles, like the Jap, or Italian or even Russian make very good Sporters. I can see a place for a Finnish Nagant simply because the only thing left of the captured Russian rifles the Finns used were the receivers, the rest was essentially Sako. Nothing wrong with the 7.62x 54R Round as it is in the same ball park as the .303, .30-40, .30-06 etc.

Anyway we will make more progress in a few days and see how this Sows Ear turns out.

Randy

[303Guy]

Lee Enfield's make great sporting rifles when their attributes are utilized and the cartridge is just fine too. The 35/303 would be just about optimum in both brush carbine or normal length. I have a Lithgow sporter in 25/303 with a long slender barrel. Nice rifle and very accurate too. Great cartridge.

[BigEyeBob]

Lee Enfield's make great sporting rifles when their attributes are utilized and the cartridge is just fine too. The 35/303 would be just about optimum in both brush carbine or normal length. I have a Lithgow sporter in 25/303 with a long slender barrel. Nice rifle and very accurate too. Great cartridge.

I have a 303/25 built on a 96Mauser , its a good Axis deer killer and very accurate ,has a Sportco barrel .I also have a 303/270 built on a Kar 98 Mauser ,still playing around with loads for this one .
I find I can bump up the volume with both of them a bit more than I would load a SMLE .
Im considering rebarreling the 270 to 318WR . 35/303 would be ok as well.

Kev.

Kev.

[BruceB]

When I was growing up in Canada, during the '50s, many thousands of .303 rifles were in use by local hunters.

Domestic ammunition from Canadian Industries Limited was of VERY high quality and efficiency, and the economy was sufficiently depressed to make low-cost rifles such as 'converted' .303s very attractive.

I've used .303 rifles to kill moose, bears and caribou with absolutely no difficulty at all.

Not one animal was ever lost when I hunted with the .303. I consider it to be the full equal of the .308, and with those old CIL loads it trod perilously-close to the ballistics of factory .30'06 ammunition.

It's an extremely effective round just as it stands, and frankly I wouldn't bother with wild-catting it.

[W.R.Buchanan]

BruceB: I had to change it. I already had a good example of a #4 Mk1, and really when I saw this one all I could think of was boring it out to a larger caliber. The existing 2 groove bore was not all that great to begin with.

It was a toss up between .375-303 and .35-303 and the greater availability of 35 cal. bullets and boolits was the deciding factor. I can go from 150 to 310 gr with Jacketed bullets and will probably settle on 250 gr Cast as my Steel Target load. Pistol boolits will work also and I already have a 173 gr Lyman SWC mould I can use.

Pretty sure My .303 with any of the 150, 174, or 215 gr bullets I now have in stock will take anything I would choose to shoot at. I know it is killing those steel targets very well, in fact I have to go load some more ammo for next Saturday.

But the whole point of the other gun was to build something different but cool. With 250 gr cast or jacketed bullets it should be a good shooting gun, and definitely different.

Randy

[BruceB]

Absolutely!

Your rifle, your decision.

Having an "iffy" bore is one of the best-possible reasons for a rebore, and I understand perfectly. For *MY* purposes, it would come down to whether or not the rifle itself was worth the expenditure in my opinion.

Are you aware that Criterion is now making new .303 #4 barrels, complete with bayonet lugs?

I'm truly a devotee of the .303 Enfields, and I share your fascination with them. They have served me well for decades, and I still believe I saved myself from death or serious injury with one many years back.....range virtually ZERO yards.

Such experiences tend to increase the regard I hold for the .303 Lee Enfield rifles...

[leebuilder]

Niffty
love 303s dont why but i do. Always been facinated with what they have been doing down under would love to get down there with an import/export licence and a fist full of fiftys. Realy like those .223 convertions. Only one wildcat up here that i know up here thats 303 Epps, but never seen one. Got one of those AIA No4 Mk4 B-10 nice gun but not worth the price.
I would never price out a 303 unless i have it in my hands. Can still find bubba'ed ones here for 50$ some are still shootable with most of the part, arg. When i price one out i do it honestly the peanut gallery is always listening and ready to try and prove me wrong.
many of the 303s i have were given to me from peaple fed up with the defuncked gun registry.
But one thing is for certain the price is always climbing and the days off the full dress No 4 for 65$ are a thing of the past.
be well

[gwpercle]

Keep the 303 sporter and renegotiate that agreement.....that's a nice one , you gonna regret getting rid of her. Maybe you could sell the CFO, no I think there is a law against that...just fix that contract...must be a loophole somewhere in it!
Gary

[BigEyeBob]

There a reason for so many wildcat SMLE's in Australia , after the war the FED govt sold off thousands of surplus SMLE's to the public .
In New South Wales the state govt enacted legislation to prevent the public from owning a rifle in a military calibre .So the smart shooters had them converted to other calibres. 22/303 ( two cartridge lengths ) ,243 /303 . 25/303 , 25/303 sprinter ,270/303 , 35/303 etc also someone decided to shorten the chamber so a full lenth 303 cartridge would not chamber which made it legal .Imported rifles from the US were expensive in those days so the only way to go was convert a cheap surplus rifle to another calibre.When I was a much younger bloke the local hardware store near where I lived had unfire SMLE' s with clean white wood with a packet of military ammo going for $20.00AUD.

The 25/303 was probably the most popular conversion ,a company called Sportco did a huge amount of them ,there are still a lot of them circulating and some go for very low dollars.This Sportco conversion went for $195.00AUD yesterday ,the only way to get the ammunition is to reload , there are a lot of blokes who still use the 303/25 , and absolutely love it

The other two pics are my 303/270 Mauser 98 and the Swede in 303 /25 both have Sportco barrels and Timney trigger conversions the Swede was done in the 50's by a gunsmith in South Australia ,it has the original military stock has had a grip inlet into the stock and checkered .I do have a new stock for it waiting for time for me to fit and finish .

Kev

[leebuilder]

Thanks for the info Kev, mystery solved. Much like France and "303 sporting" and India's 315/303.
I know Sportco single shot target rifles are in demand here, last one i seen at a gun show was 600.00$ in 308.
As an example were prices are going here,, i bought a Long branch No 4, 1950 dated, 95L series and near mint delived to my door for 112.00$ taxes in fifteen years ago, last week a 1950 dated no4 was in a local on line buy/sell site for 1040.00$. I had to pinch my self.
i see were prices vary from country to country, two years ago i bought a unfired Sino Soviet SKS for 75.00$ if you bought a case of ammo, from what i see on the "net" they bring much higher prices in the States. Not to mention 250.00$ refurbed SVTs that can be bought at the local Cambodian tire stores.

Be well

[303Guy]

You know, the power of the 303 is somewhat less than the 308 but what of it? I load my jacketed 303 below standard anyway. Not that there is a recoil issue (my suppressor brake takes out all felt recoil) but I just don't see the need for too high a velocity. In my days of wanting a flatter trajectory I used 150gr lightweights but I found the velocity too high for hunting game so I switched to 180gr bullets at moderated velocity. Much better.

[azrednek]

With Savage, Remington and Ruger rifles selling at Wally's brand new in the box for about $300. It might be awful hard to convince a buyer wanting a deer rifle to pay as much or more for a 50+ year old mil-surp rifle than a brand name new in the box.

My last sporter purchase about 2 years ago. A re-barreled US 1917 Enfield in a walnut stock with scope mount and Bold trigger. I picked up for $80.00 at a Phoenix gunshow. I got it about 15 minutes before show closed.

[leebuilder]

You know, the power of the 303 is somewhat less than the 308 but what of it? I load my jacketed 303 below standard anyway. Not that there is a recoil issue (my suppressor brake takes out all felt recoil) but I just don't see the need for too high a velocity. In my days of wanting a flatter trajectory so I used 150gr lightweights but I found the velocity too high for hunting game so I switched to 180gr bullets at moderated velocity. Much better.
you are so right 303 guy, if you know what you have and its limits you can work with it, reloading gives you options,,, reloading cast gives you many, many more options, at least thats what i do. Some guys around here wont touch a 303 with a ten foot pole. I tell peaple if you have a rifle and it shoots for you it is a good gun.
i know many guys a box of deer hunting ammo last twenty years.
a shootable 303 that groups 4" at a hundred yards is an excellant entry level deer rifle

[303Guy]

... and India's 315/303. Would yell me more about that, please?

303's are capable of pretty good accuracy sometimes. I have two very accurate sporters and a third that I would expect to be very accurate (having been told that it is and it's a mint rifle - a two-groove No4).

[leebuilder]

Hi 303guy, absolutly. I first heard about this on a different website. I could not find it, arg, but did find the Indain state website that lists the recycled or new manufactured No1 mk3 or No2 based sporting rifle.

http://www.ofbindia.gov.in/index.php?wh=Weapons&lang=en
Here is the link to their site. If this does not work or lead you to it let me know, i googled Indain goverment weponds.
There you will see a list in blue with. "0.315 sporting rifle"
be well