Now is the time to tool up for swaging, IMHO

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

To start off, I am not one of those crazy preppers or fellas that wears tin foil hats. I like to be prepared, and try to keep plenty of components on hand at all times. With the recent ATF decision to classifly certain 223 ammo as armor-piercing, what are your thoughts? Is this a slippery slope that will lead to further ammo/components restrictions? Is it going to come to a point where the military will stop selling ammo lots that don't pass inspections?? Or once-fired brass?

I am young and hope to have a long life of shooting and reloading ahead of me. Decisions, like the recent one by the ATF, worry me a bit about future ammo/reloading restrictions.

Thoughts?

[Dhammer]

Of course it is. Wasn't too long ago, that theh had stopped the sale of the once fired brass.

[xman777]

I think you hit the nail on the head already. Roll your own and you wont be subject to the same shortages as others. Sure you might not be able to find all the components either, but you're more likely to have what you need than some other poor fella looking for projectiles.
I treat swaging as another way to get what i need when I can't just buy it. It also pays for itself relatively quickly.

[GRUMPA]

In my mind swaging is just 1 aspect to all this. And by all this there's a few simple rules in life I live by. If you only have 1 way of doing anything, then....if something happens to that 1 thing now you have nothing. Don't cut yourself short....not only swaging but casting as well. And if at all possible have more than the 1 thing. In other words if your casting have more than a single mould, a single pot, a single lube sizer etc.

Same goes for swaging to a point. Once you get the technique down to the point you like the results, learn another way to get close to the same result. I've seen folks write threads swaging from regular ole die sets. That's where I would be going, in that direction.

Jackets???....First thing I would be doing instead of thinking about it is make a reducing die to make .357 boolits from 9mm brass. I know it can be done but all I have is the lathe and the idea, which I know I can make work.

Now here's something some of you haven't thought much about. Let's just say your happy with what you have, you worked hard to get or save up for the materials. You know the primer, powder tools and what-not to make this all happen bit. When it comes time to use what you make and things are either hard to get or the price went nuts, and you start going out and having fun. Ever wonder where you can go without folks hearing you, wondering over making nice talk, trying to get you to make stuff for them. Let me clue you, it's a nightmare at times since they have nothing and they want what you have. They're willing to pay you alright, but at what cost when they only have $$ and no materials that they seem to believe you apparently seem to have lots of.

[xman777]

You lost me a bit, but i think i got it...

[tiger762]

If you show up at the range with ziploc bags slap full of ammunition, the have-nots will either pout or offer to buy from you at unrealistically old prices, or both. Shrugs. Then, they'll get a case of "sour grapes".

I've had dirtbags at ranges tell me that my firing full-auto is a waste of ammunition. "Maybe, but it's mine to waste". I've been informed numerous times that my reloads are not appropriate for self-defense because Ayoob says so. What is common in these weird encounters is the person I'm being accosted by, is ate-up with jealousy. Screw 'em.


You lost me a bit, but i think i got it...

[runfiverun]

Yessir the last hold-up on 223 was not a slow up on my part.
If anything it provided me with more 22lr brass.
Every time someone showed up to the range and they seen us out shooting the AR's it was all stares and questions.
I usually explained it was possible to make your own bullets but if we happened to be shooting cast, the look of dis-belief was priceless.

[aaronraad]

You'll be buying rolls of #1,2,3 & 4 AWG copper wire, cutting them into slugs and then bumping/swaging them up down and around from 20cal - 30 cal before you know it - just as long as it feeds from a mag! ;)

[pertnear]

I'm a new "swager" having just made the plunge for dies/punches to make .224's out of .22LR. I was always fascinated by the Corbin swaging ads & looked at swaging as the next phase to handloading. BUT, even though I was intrigued, I always laughed after looking at the prices. For the cost to getting set-up right I could buy a lifetime of .224 cal bullets, especially since I'm a single-shot rifle sort of guy!

But recent events convinced me that swaging was a good way to go. As much as I hate it, fight it, rant about it, see the futility of it, gun control via various means is coming & is on the horizon. The inroads have many faces. When they tax or strangle ammunition & components away, will bullets made from .22lr hulls be a good thing? What about having the equipment to make them? Even if just as a fall back. No, I'm not a prepper or conspiracy theorist, just a country boy pragmatist that enjoys being a DIY'er.

IllinoisCoyoteHunter, I'm sure your same concerns & thoughts occupy many of our minds these days....

[tiger762]

I hate what the speculators are doing now with all the M855 223 since the ATF announced a reclassification. I refuse to pay out the butt for something because someone is trying to corner the market. That's why I got into swaging. There's no stampede of consumers driving the prices up ridiculously. Although, one could say the price for the equipment is already high :D I can buy scrap lead. Pay for electricity to melt/cast it. Use muscle power to swage it. Fired 22LR is still tied to scrap value. I was thinking the lowlife speculators were going to make hay out of the Doe Run closure, but lead prices seem to still be stable. I have two tons of lead anyway. By having the equipment, I am immune to the direction the stampede is moving because I'm buying the raw materials and not the finished product. That's how I look at it anyway.

[ncbearman]

IllinoisCoyoteHunter- you are past the biggest hurdle already. Your way of thinking and trying to plan. I was fortunate enough to have a Father that saw alot of combat in WWII. He was all about his guns and shooting. I shot my first gun a single shot 22 short Iver Johnson when I was 5. I still have it. He taught and prepared me well. There is no one fool proof way to do this. I first casted as a teenager, but didn't get back into it until about 5 years ago. In those 5 years I have been able to accumulate more than I will need. But I have 4 kids that all shoot. So I just keep collecting the materials I think will benefit our family in the future. I have always loved anything 45. My goal is to be set up to efficiently cast, swage, load, hunt with .45acp Colt 1911, .45 Colt/.45acp convertible revolver, .45 Colt levergun. btw- Don't under estimate the value of the 310 handloaders, thy will get you a few rounds in a last resort situation. I have an ammo box full of enough cases, powder, projectiles and a 310 loader to grab and be good for a while. Thats the kind of thing Grumpa was talking about above. Its never a bad think to think and plan ahead. We have no idea what s going to happen, but I don't see things getting better at this point. Thats not a dooms day attitude. Things could change but DANG they sure are different than when my Father was growing up!

[257]

if the atf get's away with calling m855 ball ammo armor piercing ,when in fact they are jacketed lead core bullit's then they could also call any jacketed bullet's the same GO TO THE NRA SIGHT AND READ HOW TO FILE YOUR THOUGHTS IN THE FEDERAL REGESTER DEADLINE IS 3/15/2015 ALSO CALL YOUR SENATORS AND CONGRESSMAN OFFICES AND POLITELY TELL THEM TO STOP THIS BACK DOOR GUN CONTROL IF THEY EXPECT YOU TO SUPPORT THEM

[tiger762]

It's the steel cone in the front of the round that they are latching onto. The back end is lead. The steel is in there to move the center of gravity back so that it yaws. Not really for "armor piercing" effect exceeding M193. It could just be that ammo manufacturers want to sell off the M855 quickly to concentrate on M855A1. How best to do that? Get the ATF to induce a panic buy.

[fredj338]

Anything is possible in a corrupt govt that feels it doesn't answer to the people. Reloading has been completely banned is some countries. So yeah, anything is possible. I bought swaging dies form BT a couple years ago when 223 bullet were scarce & pricey. I made about 1000 bullets & put them away. I cast for all my handgun calibers. I have the tools & knowledge if it ever comes to something apocalyptic. Just stock up on primers, you definitely need those. Powder I can scrounge from calibers I don't have guns for if I have to, but primers, gotta have em.

[ncbearman]

Just stock up on primers, you definitely need those

Or at the very least spent primers, and strike anywhere matches. I would hate to have to do it, but it does work. Take out the anvil, flatten the firing pin strike in the cup, scrape 3 or 4 match tips, re-install anvil, load. BANG!

[nagantguy]

Bad news; if your getting gear and learning skills to make sure you have what you need or want for protection/recreation in a future rife with uncertainty then you are a prepper; no tin foil hat needed.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

As stated in my OP, I am not one of those "crazy preppers". Am I a person that likes to be prepared...yes. But not to an obnoxious extent to where it totally disrupts my daily life.

There's no bad news here...only good news! Life is good!

[gmsharps]

The ammo shortage has cropped up it's ugly head up from time to time for a long time. I remember in the middle 70's I was working part time at the Heidelberg Rod & Gun Club and we could not get pistol or shotgun ammo. Of course I cast my own bullets from the lead I mined at the range and pistol primers could still be had and powder was getting sparse but could be found. I was shooting a hundred rounds a day before work every day and folks just said where are you getting your ammo and I just said I made them. The shotgun range was a bit more of a challenge in that shotshell primers were nowhere to be found but I found a little device I can't remember who made it but I could take a shotshell primer apart and replace with a pistol primer and then insert the new shotshell primer in the case and they worked fine. A friend and I mined the skeet range for used shot and had over 600lbs of shot each and we scooped up the fired wads and sorted out the Win AA12's out and put them In a mesh bag and washed them and they worked just fine. We had the skeet range to ourselves for quite some time until the ammo supplies eased up a bit. Since then I have always tried to keep enough lead primers and powder to keep me going during the sporadic times of shortages and that thought has served me well. I keep enough food, fuel and things I need to get me through weather issues and if that makes me a prepper so be it but I see it as just being prepared. I can't go for years like that but a few weeks I can. I have recently picked up a swaging die to make 223 out of fired 22lr. Just so I can get the bullets I want when I want.

gmsharps

[762 shooter]

Everyone is a "prepper", just different degrees. Some think days. Some think months. Some think years.

When was the last time you ran out of toilet paper?

762

[nagantguy]

Been a long time since I ran out of tp, it'll be years before my current stock is used up and I've been working on making my own.

[Skeet06]

Interested in item #s 278 and 279.
are they still available?

[fredj338]

Been a long time since I ran out of tp, it'll be years before my current stock is used up and I've been working on making my own.

In the apocalypse, TP will be worth gold coins!

[xman777]

In the apocalypse, TP will be worth gold coins!

Knowing how to "go" will be worth more. If you were ever in the military, then you know what I mean... We could get by with 3 squares a day, and I ain't talkin about meals.

[mold maker]

I sure hope it doesn't come down to, having to recycle TP. Of course I did cut up all my worn T shirts into 2" squares. With only 4 sq", Ya better have good aim.