Wear gloves when cleaning deer and other game!

[madsenshooter]

I been doing some research, and I want to remind everyone to take some rubber or plastic gloves hunting with you. There are three species of helminths that infect deer and other ungulates which produce infective little ones known as microfilaria. Other species that produce these microfilaria are those that cause elephantiasis and river blindness. If you should get infected by the microfilaria from deer, your hands will swell and you'll spend a lot of time going to the Dr. who will simply tell you that it's a neuropathy. Yes dummy, it's obviously a neuropathy, but what is infecting the nerves that is causing it! Few Drs here in the states are familiar with zoonotic diseases that can come from animals. Those Drs who are obviously from foreign countries have even less knowledge of them it seems. "I am the Dr", one hindi guy said to me when I tried to point him in the right direction. I'll skip giving my opinion of someone who abandons the poor and sick of his own country to become a highly paid pill pusher in this one.

I've had some firsthand experience with the stuff, you don't want to mess with it. The little vermin have caused some of the same symptoms in me that they do in deer! If you wanna find out what those symptoms are, the three species are: Onchecera cervipedis, paraphostrongylus andersoni, and elaeophora schneideri. The last one is very long lived, up to 15yrs, but that might depend on the longevity of the host, and they can produce a lot of young! These critters are spread by deer flies, horseflies, blackflies, gnats and other biting insects. They can be circulating in the blood and lymph of your kill and can infect you through your bare skin! I know I'll hear from lots of guys who have skinned many a deer barehanded and will say there's nothing wrong with them. Could be true, count yourself lucky, and stop the practice before you get the little vermin, it ain't no fun and the only Dr who will be able to figure it out is a veterinarian, who won't do squat because he isn't licensed to!

[41mag]

Ya think those are fun, look up some of the ones that feral hogs can tote around with them..I have shot 4 deer over the past 15yrs, but I have killed and dressed over a hundred or so hogs easily. I can't say that I use the golves 100% of the time since I never know if, when, or where I'll be when I manage to get the hogs, but I will say that I try my best to have some gloves available. The problem is, if you leave them in your truck or tractor down here in the nice humid 100 degree temps we get, they don't last long. You shove your hand in them, and well it goes in one part and comes out another. But we do have them at most places we hunt by the boxes.

[juzme]

I want to remind everyone to take some rubber or plastic gloves hunting....

Maybe these for <$7: http://www.harborfreight.com/oil-resistant-pvc-long-cuff-gloves-99677.html

I've gotten 'em on sale for under $5. They're pretty good gloves, very light weight and disposable for fast clean up. I've used 'em and like 'em.

juzme

[roverboy]

Juzme, that would be some good gloves for field dressing. Thanks.

[N4AUD]

My brother-in-law was field dressing a deer several years ago, heard a noise close by and looked up and accidentally cut himself, though not badly enough for stitches. His hand swelled up and was very painful. He went to the doctor for treatment but it took a long time to get over it. I've always worn a set of those dishwashing gloves when dressing a deer since that happened to him.

[richhodg66]

Good advice that, unfortunately, I almost never heed. I've never gotten sick, but blood does seem to be slightly irritating to the skin and I almost always seem to get some nicks on my hands which I'm sure cause blood to blood transfer, guess I've been lucky so far.

I need to get some of those to keep in my hunting pack.

[dragon813gt]

I always wear ones that come up over the elbow. They're in the cheap field dressing kits you can buy at Walmart. The few bucks they cost are worth it. Always one in the truck and my pack.

[butch2570]

A buddy of mine got some kind of crud from skinning wild rabbits we had killed in the late 80's I don't remember the name of it , but he told me when he had skinned them , he thought some of them had health issues ,as he said some of them had spots on their organs, after he got sick and went to the Dr. , he pitched their carcasses and hasn't cleaned any since. A person should use gloves ,these are really thick and work well.130850

[white eagle]

never used gloves yet to clean any game or fish
I have run across people who have as they left their gloves in the woods next to the gut pile

[madsenshooter]

it's odd, always gutted and skinned bare handed. I'd just rub my hands together and rub the dried blood off, no issues. This year it was almost like I developed some allergy to the dried blood and it seemed to give me a rash.

I personally know several barehanded skinners in this area, and there are more than just me that have picked up something. The swelling and or rash will progress on up your arms in time. But those somethings aren't supposed to be here in Ohio. BS, they're as far north as Alaska!

[Powder Burn]

I've always worn rubber/latex gloves. Not so much for bacteria but the nasty deer ticks. Several buddies I know have contracted lyme disease and it is difficult to diagnose. I have to get some 'elbow' gloves since my latex gloves get torn easily and don't fully protect my wrists or arms. When I'm finished field dressing, I turn my gloves inside out and place them in a plastic bag for disposal.

[bhn22]

The arm length gloves are sold at farm & ranch stores for calving & lambing.

[Geezer in NH]

Being a former EMT I have always in the last 40 years worn glove to gut anything. To me they were free every first responder has a box or more.

That way no need to clean blood off as it goes away whem you srip the gloves of inside out.

[madsenshooter]

I've always worn rubber/latex gloves. Not so much for bacteria but the nasty deer ticks. Several buddies I know have contracted lyme disease and it is difficult to diagnose. I have to get some 'elbow' gloves since my latex gloves get torn easily and don't fully protect my wrists or arms. When I'm finished field dressing, I turn my gloves inside out and place them in a plastic bag for disposal.

Ticks can also spread these helminths. Many people who have Lyme also have a variety of worms. Lyme was one of the things I checked out when searching for a diagnosis.

[quilbilly]

I started getting concerned years ago when I dressed a "wetlands deer" down in Oregon"s Willamette Valley. When preparing the liver for dinner, huge worms crawled out (liver flukes). Been very careful ever since.

[kenyerian]

Good advice. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tularemia I always were gloves for cleaning wild game. When I started hunting back in the 60's I was taught to be very careful when cleaning wild game, especially rabbits.

[borg]

I have problems using latex or nitrile gloves when cleaning deer/hogs, just too slippery, can't grip anything.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

People move from where the poor and sick are, to where they aren't, within the USA as well.

A good friend of mine died of heart trouble arising from a disease akin to Lyme disease, which he almost certainly caught from a tick on an antelope he shot in Africa. In the process he lost his business, home and firearms dealer's licence, and his marriage became tenuous. I still have one of his books with his presentation inscription in the front, and an extremely appreciative introduction by the Duke of Edinburgh, the Queen's husband. A tick, to do all that!

It can be argued that we never used to hear of hunters, modern or primitive, being harmed by things like that. But of course there is no telling what people possessed by devils or stricken with a palsy, like the chap in the Bible, really had. I've been stricken with a palsy myself, although it was the kind that lets you take up your bed and walk someday, when someone puts the idea in your head that you can.

I think your advice about gloves is worth taking, although some of those insects can do their infecting to any part of you, and you can't walk through the woods (doesn't have to be hunting) in a diving suit. It is probably a bit safer than crossing busy streets on a Saturday night - or, come to that, some of the things you can catch from two-legged animals.

I'm not so convinced that apathy by doctors is a contributing factor. Colin got referred quickly to tropical diseases specialists who worked long and hard on his behalf, although it was all free. Even on a cynical view, it is the things they see every day in double figures that doctors get apathetic about. Colin's problem was that it was something new, and he didn't last as long as the investigation did.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

The thin disposable surgical ones should be OK, or you would be in real trouble on the operating table. But if there s any doubt, thin cotton gloves on top of them, of the sort used by museum conservators or photo lab technicians, should fix the problem.

[largom]

I use shoulder length rubber gloves for gutting. For skinning and cutting meat I use latex gloves. Always used these when skinning and dressing fur-bearers also.

Larry

[Jevyod]

Well I guess I have been very fortunate! I have gutted and skinned 15-20 deer and never wore gloves. Never even got a rash. But live and learn. Thanks for the advice, I will get some for my pack. That's what makes this place so awesome! All the great advice! I do have a question. When using gloves to field dress a deer, do I need the shoulder length ones? I am guessing that the point is to prevent blood from contacting your skin at all??

[Garyshome]

Good advice fo more then just field dressing.

[freebullet]

I have always used gloves to dress game. Even after a few old hunting buddies poked fun over it.

One of my "caution be darned" buddies drank from a garden hose that was laying in the yard on a job. They had a septic system and low and behold he was sick for over a month with 7000$ in med bills. I'm thankful for all the safety training I've been through, it's really helped avoid problems. If you've ever been through the boringness of an o.s.h.a. class and stayed awake you should realize how easily things go wrong.

[1Shirt]

For years I have just been wearing latex surgical gloves. After reading this however, think I will switch to dish washing gloves.
1Shirt!

[madsenshooter]

Well I guess I have been very fortunate! I have gutted and skinned 15-20 deer and never wore gloves. Never even got a rash. But live and learn. Thanks for the advice, I will get some for my pack. That's what makes this place so awesome! All the great advice! I do have a question. When using gloves to field dress a deer, do I need the shoulder length ones? I am guessing that the point is to prevent blood from contacting your skin at all??

Yes fortunate. It took a long time for the vermin to grow to the point that I knew something bad was going on. Visits to lots of different Drs, lots of misdiagnosis. I was even kidnapped once when I went to a hospital unable to talk and could hardly write, managed to spell out worms after 3 or 4 tries, then got shipped off to a psychiatric unit where they gave me something that knocked me out for three days! The first real outward sign was a stiff neck, and an electrical-like shock when I turned my head a certain way, known as Lhermitte's sign. That was many years ago and things continued to progress, unknown to me. Vermin produce neurochemicals that keep you from feeling a lot of what's going on! In time I developed a lump in my neck, not a lump one can see on the outside, but stiff, hardened tendon, muscle, and nerve cells that have been infected with microfilaria and calcified. If you read any of the deer symptoms, you'll note that it does the same to them in the neck area. That is slowly softening and going away, and other similar lumps throughout my body are too. They can even worm their way into the meninges of the brain, and often do when they are in a creature other than than the preferred host. I have went through a couple of encephalopathies, a swelling of the brain or brainstem, and nerve problems throughout my body. Lots of you guys have enough immune response, you might never get anything though skinning barehanded. I'm a relative rarity here in the US, type B blood, less than 3% of the US population. But cleaning without protection is a risk and I don't want to see others go through it. I still have something moving in my hands, probably the adults that produce the microfilaria. The movement has naught to do with my muscles, but is in the lymphatic duct above the muscles, from my pinky up to my wrist, where it appears they have sealed my hands off from normal lymph flow. Microfilaria that they produce escape into the blood flow at the ends of the fingers. They are relatively easy to kill, the adults however, are very chemically resistant. The unpredictable movement in my hands makes shooting interesting, but I once knew a fellow who had parkinsons that knew how to make the striker fall at the right moment despite his constant shaking. I'm not as good at it as he was, I think he fed his family almost exclusively on groundhog! Those also carry some nasty stuff, but I'm not going there.

[big bore 99]

Very good advice. When I was a kid, my grandfather nicked himself while cleaning rabbits. After awhile, his whole arm swelled up with redlines running up it. Then he got a very large lump in a lypmth gland under his arm. He was sick for a very long time. This was many years ago and no one knew anything about it.

[RP]

Ok if you need gloves to gut and clean the deer then place it on ice after its cooled is it safe then? Or what the life spanned of this stuff?

[madsenshooter]

I can't say about these species, but other species of helminths that many animals have, strongyloides, can survive being frozen. Sorta makes you want swear off rare meat! Refrigeration/freezing does not stop the growth of bacteria, only slows it. Oh, some won't have what it takes to survive the temp.

[tomme boy]

Back when we party hunted, I cleaned over 20 deer a year myself. And that was over 15 years of doing that. Some years it was a lot higher than that. I've never wore gloves. Can't hunt anymore due to health reasons and not from the deer cleanings.

[texassako]

I learned to clean kills without gloves, and we never hunted with any who did wear them. I always use gloves these days since we usually have a case of them around the house, and my Dad even picked up the habit of keeping gloves in his pack as well. There are some nasty things out there I don't really want to contract. The gloves are handy for all sorts of messy tasks, especially when out on my little place with no running water to wash up.

[wallenba]

Spotted liver disease, tularemia, in rabbits. Can be deadly.

[luvtn]

Madsenshooter, I don't know where to begin. Some of your information is ok, a lot of it is bogus. "
Helminths are parasitic worms that feed on a living host to gain nourishment and protection, while causing poor nutrient absorption, weakness and disease in the host. These worms and larvae live in the small bowel and are referred to as intestinal parasites.
The following groups of worms are classed as helminths:


Nematodes or roundworms
Trematodes, which includes flukes or flatworms
Cestodes or tapeworms
Monogenans, also members of the flatworm phylum.

The method of transmission is via hand to mouth. Or fecal/oral routes.
nueropathy is numbness, tingling, and the "electric shock feeling.
The swelling is lymphedema, generally caused by damage to the lymph system. If you have this consult a "complete decongestion therapist."
Blood borne diseases are bacterial usually like coocidiosis, brucellosis, tubereculosis, histoplasmosis, leptosporosis etc.
I agree we should be careful. I and a lot of my buds over the years have skinned and cleaned game with no problems. I am sorry you have had problems.
Filaria are what mosquitos carry and pass around like malaria etc.
luvtn

[gmsharps]

I have used latex gloves but prefer the Nitrile gloves. They are a bit thicker but still gives you a decent touch. It's better to be safe than sorry.

gmsharps

[Omega]

I started using nitrile gloves due to a lack of water to wash up. Now that I solved that issue I still wear them due to ease of cleanup. I have only recently started hearing about catching anything due to field dressing, I wonder why it never surfaced before? I guess taking a bite of the heart of your first deer is now taboo?

[N4AUD]

Oh, and don't throw your used gloves down in the woods. That shouldn't need saying but someone here said they saw gloves at the gut pile. It's pretty easy to put them into a zip lock bag and dispose of them the right way.
I didn't start out wearing gloves field dressing deer but after my BIL got sick I figured I'd rather be safe than sorry. It's kind of like wearing hearing protection when you are shooting. I wish someone had told me about it when I was younger, maybe I wouldn't have this constant ringing in my ears and I would be able to carry on a conversation with people who are soft spoken. When I was a kid I never saw a set of ear plugs or muffs on anybody shooting. Never saw gloves on anyone dressing game either. I'm a lot older now and hopefully just a little wiser.

[madsenshooter]

luvtn, the microfilaria are circulating in the blood, usually near the skin, waiting to be picked up by the biting insect. But they go pretty much wherever they want, and they are infective. Even tapeworms, which are supposed to live inside the bowel, aren't always found inside, neither are the critters I have mentioned above. I once started to skin a flea infested rabbit. Tapeworms were inside the abdominal cavity, which is the same as in the lymph as there are ducts which empty into the cavity. Get some blood on your hand, wipe the corner of your mouth, same as fecal-oral, the microfilaria are infective. I wish they'd have stayed in my gut, I'd likely have little problem then. But they don't. If you read any on the species I listed you'd know that. Like the sheep and deer, my face and nose got bigger from the microfilaria circulating under the skin, and like they do in deer and horses, they produced a lump in my neck, that whoopee, is going away. Oh heck, I'm not going to spell it out for you, suffice it to say, it happens, and like I said, I've seen it in other hunters who have no idea what's in them, nor do the doctors they see. It hasn't got them down yet, like it did me, but in due time it will, and the Drs. will have no idea what's causing it. Just be safe, cause they can sure make you sorry. There is a lot about these critters that science has not discovered yet. I don't wish to get in any arguments about it, you'd have to live it to fully understand it. Just bear in mind that the critters are there, and be safe. I believe mine came from finishing off a deer I'd hit with my car. He got down into a ditch, I straddled him, cut his throat and my ankle at the same time. Darned hawkbill knife!

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I like these gloves been using them or ones like it for about 25 years , I put them on and field dress then take them off turning them inside out I am holding my knife with one glove and the liver with the other as I take them off when I get back to the house with the deer to hang I get my knife out and start the liver soaking

http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/497420-hunters-specialties-latex-field-dressing-gloves.html?utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_source=googlebase&gclid=Cj0KEQiA6ounBRCq0LKBjKGgysEBEiQAZmpvAzyFrVnT ZbLiDnEwqRB_bNvnoPtlIDVlgBNKoLQFpI8aAq9n8P8HAQ#.VO OhPy59bs0

[tdoyka]

my little brother does not use any type of gloves, i use them if they are there, don't use them if they aren't. my dad uses them for everything. eventually myself and my little brother are going to find a rash or something like lyme disease, and then we will learn!!!

[madsenshooter]

If you get into the Merck veterinary manual, you'll see, some of these critters can even live in the saliva of pets. Think about that next time you see someone letting a dog kiss them!

[13Echo]

When I did forensic autopsy examinations we always wore the heavy kitchen type rubber gloves. Nice texture for gripping, heavy enough to resist puncture from bone splinters, faairly good sensitivity, and easily cleaned for reuse.

Jerry Liles

[RP]

Well that info is kind of dishearten I have clean a lot of deer without gloves try to wear them now days mainly for clean up. when we process the meat we all wear gloves more to protect the meat from heck not sure what just makes me feel better. So I guess cooking the meat is the point where the danger stops? Also is it more if you have a cut get a cut during cleaning ? Or did I understand it right you can get it just by contact.

[luvtn]

Well guys worm type parasites generally are species specific. Madsenhunter is correct to raise awareness, but some of his information is convoluted to say the least. Do your own research before getting fully gowned and gloved. Gloves yes, the rest no. The reason forensic pathologists gown and glove is due to the fact the pathogens are specific for humans. Good luck.
lt

[luvtn]

got to this link. http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/lymphaticfilariasis/epi.html the take away from this article is at present you cannot get filiarisis in the USA. Another link regarding heartworms-again species specific(canine). http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_heartworm_-_the_parasite.html
Onchecera species do indeed cause filiriasis, but in Africa, Latin America, and the middle East. http://eol.org/pages/2925032/overview.
elaeophora schneideri is again species specific to ungulates and horses. http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/integumentary_system/helminths_of_the_skin/elaeophorosis.html
lt

[Friends call me Pac]

I don't wear gloves. If I cut myself and get infected the same thing would happen if I got cut wearing gloves.

[trapper9260]

I do not wear gloves when skin and gut a deer but do it when skinning fur bearing that I trap because i know that they carry more then other animals that you will come in contact with .In the past i use to wear gloves to skin skunks .But now on all fur animals I trap.I know will need to do it with deer now for what is all going around.There is still some things you can get even if you wear gloves and who knows what that is the mange.I know I got it from skin a coyote that did not look like it had it and found out later.I got rid of it myself but you never know.Oh by the way those do not know what the mange is it is a mite that bores under the skin.Just like scabies it is a mite and treat it the same way.I got that when I had a total hip replacement they sent me a letter that someone on the staff had it and past it around.I got rid of it the same way I got rid of the mange.gloves will help on some things but not all.

[gwpercle]

I think I will stay inside the house and dissenfect everything....way too many things outside that will kill you . Scares me to think of all the germs, viruses , pathogens, ebola, west nile viruses and things I have no control of.

[Geezer in NH]

When you DO NOT WANT TO GET CUT wear Glaziers gloves. Rubber with Kevlar. Wear the nitrile under.

When you are helping me gut and skin You need them. I ask my family the Wes Studi (LOT Mohicans) question has my blade tasted your blood and it totally pisses them off. :bigsmyl2:

[RP]

Well I am not freaking out over the glove thing like it may seem just getting others thoughts on it for the most part. My main reason for asking is some of the kids of the family that gut clean and process deer at my house are not aware of the risk they may be taking. For myself I am aware for the most part but what I tell the kids if for their protection and it would be just wrong not to mentor in a positive way. Thanks for all the links and comments.

[bayjoe]

Don't forget Brucellosis in elk in the Greater Yellowstone Area. Also feral swine carry Brucellosis.
Brucellosis in humans is called undulant fever. There is no cure.
Northern deer can be infected with Tuberculosis. TB is most commonly seen in enlarged lymph nodes. So cook your wild game to at least 165 degrees.

[huntrick64]

I have cleaned hundreds of deer/hogs over the last 35 years without wearing any gloves, until about 5 years ago.

5 years ago:

Me, my wife and kids were headed home and were almost hit by a drunk driver. Then we saw him hit a car in front of us knocking that car into the ditch and the drunk driver sped off. We stopped to check on the other guy and he said he was OK and to get the catch the other guy. My wife called 911 as I came up behind the drunk and gave them his tag #. It was dark and the drunk went into the oncoming lane so I started braking. He hit another car head-on with a family of 5 in it. The impact ejected the drunk through the windshield and down the middle of the road. The family car was "balled up" and ended up in the ditch. I jumped out and ran towards the family car when I saw the drunk get up and start limping/running off. Without really thinking, I punched the drunk in the back somewhere and he went back down and stayed. Several people came out of the nearby business and started helping out. There were 3 nurses traveling in another car that stopped and helped a great deal. The family was hurt very bad and they landed a chopper at the scene to transport one of them and ambulances to transport the rest.

After everything settled down, the highway patrol was discussing with me the drunk's claim that I beat him up after the accident. That is when one of the nurses came to us and asked me if I did hit him, and did I get any of his blood on me. She told me she was a local nurse and she medically knew the drunk from prior visits to the ER. She said he was positive Hep "C".

Ironically, I somehow didn't get any blood on me, but was very concerned because I am type-1 diabetic and I prick finger 4-5 times per day to test my blood sugar. That got me to thinking about my other exposures to animals and how I already have tiny holes in my fingers for little tiny things to crawl inside of my blood stream. I have already been treated for lyme disease twice due to many tick bites.

I went to Harbor Freight and purchased several boxes of the 9-mil nitrile gloves. They are the black ones that are very heavy and commonly used by mechanics. I carry a box of these in every vehicle I own. I use them any time I skin or butcher an animal and they are available to me should I need them at another accident. I already have a serious medical condition and don't want to add any more complications to that.

I agree that if I cut myself, its going to be through the glove and I will still be exposed. There are times that I have to grip something really hard (like pliers) and when I do, tiny drops of blood show up on my finger tips because that pressure opened them back up. Think about how often you already have scratches, a torn cuticle, or some other opening on your hand.

There is a lot of exposure these days, finger pricks and well as other pricks, so wear gloves!

Be careful.

[smokeywolf]

Using gloves or exorcising any other easy, simple and practical practice that may decrease your risk or exposure to injury or disease is a no-brainer. I won't go to unreasonable lengths to avoid risk, but if there's some easy and inexpensive precaution you can take to avoid a trip to the doctor or worse yet, a one way trip to the marble orchard, your a sap not to take it.

Had a friend die from Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever back in 1973; contracted from a tick bite. I've been on too many hunts, hikes and horseback rides since then to count. Had numerous flea and tick bites, but always take whatever precautions that are reasonable and practical.

You owe it to your wife, children, grandchildren and parents (if still with you) to stay healthy and safe to as great a degree as is possible and practical.

smokeywolf

[madsenshooter]

It's rather naive to think that these filarial worms, which are on other every other continent, aren't here in the US in some form too. I realize one can quickly read that they're not supposed to be, but they are. And, I imagine a lot of people who have them go untreated, like the other two local hunters I know that display symptoms. One can call my reasoning convoluted if they wish, all I know is I'm taking chemicals that kill the microfilaria, and the adults, and it's working! I can't say exactly what species I have, thanks to NIH testing, we know it isn't Wuchereria Bancrofti, but what it ain't is all we know. There are times I am sorely tempted to cut open the lymphatic ducts of my hands to find out just what's in there! So, research has shown me, yes they are here, and yes they dwell in something that I have had my hands in, and yes, I have some of the symptoms they can cause, same symptoms as the deer/elk, whatever. Just ran across experimental infection of mice with these vermin. The immune system of some mice kills them in time, in immune deficient mice they thrive. So before you start telling me I'm full of something other than worms luvtn, dig deeper into research that's been done. Things like this are headed north. The chikungunya virus you all have there in TN now is a good example. But these filarial worms have been here all along, like I said as far north as Alaska! Guess I just wasn't immune to them, I have an idea why I'm not, but I'm not going there right now. By the way, the microfilare of some of the species are only .009 long and a lot less in diameter. Get out the magnifying glass!

[gondwana]

I live in north-eastern Australia and in all the years I have hunted here and on hunts in New Zealand & MT, USA, I have never worn gloves when butchering and skinning game. However, I never eat the wild pigs I cull or wild scrub cattle either. I do eat the venison of red, fallow and sambar deer, it is a favourite. I have seen too many flesh and gut worms in wild pigs to know better. Good advice there madsenshooter.

[goofyoldfart]

Luvtn mentioned Leptosposis (sp?), well I have it. picked it up in the University of SouthEast Asia. it is very similar to Malaria but not the same by a long shot. My doctor can't figure out why I don't have more often attacks and sever symptoms. well, I guess I have a damn good immune system, that plus the Good Lord takes care of me. they say the same thing about my type2diabetes (diet and excersize) and why I am doing so well after pancriatic cancer surgury. probably a good immune system and definitly my Lord and Savior Christ Jesus. Also I had ungulant fever when I was 5 years old and no I don't have it anymore. the advice on taking precausions is valid and common sense--take heed. It doesn't take a lot of effort. God Bless to all and theirs.

Goofy

P.S. now you know why I use the wet cat in the towel as an avatar. does the cat lool P.O.ed[smilie=s:

[madsenshooter]

SE Asia is good place to pic up worms too. And our Drs. don't know squat about them. Their presence can initiate cancer, I was reading the other day. Just heard from my Dr. She had a couple come in that had been to the Caribbean, on islands with a deer population that is more likely to carry them then those here in Ohio. All it takes is a skeeter or fly bite, and you gots em! The woman was a former microbiologist. Their Cinci Drs decided the both of them were delusional. Drs. do that, you don't go along with them, then you're delusional. That stinks, because in reality, they're only guessing about what might be wrong with you. Now they're going to try Cleveland, where I figure they'll get more of the same.

[madsenshooter]

I just wanted to show you folks, I'm not delusional, and I don't have things mixed up, like some have insinuated. Yesterday, I took diethylcarbamazine, looking for a reaction that happens if you have microfilaria. Here's a couple pics of the reaction, thankfully I don't have near as many microfilaria as I once had. More of them, the bigger the reaction, sometimes a big enough reaction to kill you! You can do a google image search of river blindness, kinda looks the same doesn't it. Well, I haven't been to any tropical place. I cut myself a couple times while skinning Ohio deer, and like the immune compromised mice above, they can live in me! I'm immune compromised for one of two reasons, perhaps both. First, I remember mom pulling ticks off me when I was less than 5, and at 5, I was given the SV40 contaminated Salk polio vaccine (anyone 57 or older likely was). But here's the bottom line, don't believe everything you quickly read to be an absolute. From the Caribbean to the subartic, they're here, they been here all along! The adults are hard to kill and can live in you 15yrs putting out these little babies as mosquito and fly bait. You'd never know it, just a puffiness to the face, hands and other places exposed for the next carrier to pic them up and fly them to a new home.

[Geezer in NH]

I don't wear gloves. If I cut myself and get infected the same thing would happen if I got cut wearing gloves.
I would worry about previous open wounds not the cut through the glove.

Why do you think Emergency personnel wear them. A simple hangnail or any small invisible wound through the dermis will let you get infected.

Think about it

[madsenshooter]

I'd go with light chain mail under rubber! Forgive me, the reaction isn't just in my eye, it likely goes into the meninges, and I'm in a weird mood. Last time I take that stuff, I had to get it through a vet supply in Australia, it's available here online only if you have a prescription from a Dr or Vet.

GOF, did you mean undulant fever? If so, that's now known as brucellosis. Had that too! Drenching nightsweats. At that time I had a GF that was a horsewoman who was always complaining that the neighbor's cows had brucellosis and was causing her mare to miscarry. Know what, she did too!

[ravelode]

I buy the long sleeved vet plastic gloves with a latex or nitrile glove over it to give a good grip on my knife and have been doing it that way for 14 years. I was a bare hand guy before:oops:

[goofyoldfart]

Madsenshooter: yep that is what I meant, just having one of those days that I can't spell:D God Bless to you and yours.

Goofy

[luvtn]

Madsenshooter, DEC (diethylcarbamazine) is a specific for onchocerciasis (river blindness).That disease needs a vector, the black fly.(A very complicated life cycle). Again onchocerciasis is limited to Africa, and Latin America. DEC is now contraindicated (not used in humans) for onchocerciasis due to severe and fatal reactions. They now use ivermectin, but it only kills the larvae. Moxidectin has not been released for humans yet, and it kills adults. A conjunctive (used with ivermectin)therapy has been tetracycline, because it kills a bacteria, Wolbachia, that lives in the worms, and eventually kills the worm. Your eye could be that way for many other reasons. If you have never been outside of America, I don't see how you would have that disease. You didn't get it skinning deer. Good luck.
Luvtn

[madsenshooter]

I'm not going to argue with you, go ahead, skin your game barehanded. My eye, got this way after DEC. The fatal reaction you mention has a name, the Mazzotti Reaction, and what you see in my eye is such a reaction. No microfilaria, no reaction, simple as that. It's on a smaller scale because I keep these vermin in check. There are worms related to the ones that can cause river blindness that infect deer, just as there are worms here related to the ones that cause elephantiasis. I suppose now you think they live only in black flies, there's horseflies, deer flies, mosquitoes and gnats. The worms are not species specific, they're going to live anywhere they can. Found that in some book that I'd never find my way back to. I know all about wolbachia and moxidectin. I have worked around people who are from endemic areas, Yemenis, but I had this stuff long before that. You feel free to believe what you want, hope you don't have to experience it. They're here. It's people with an opinion like yours that have forced me to self treat. Please note, it's working, explain that!!!! My Dr (MD, ND, LLMD & member of Mensa) will be testing the pair I mentioned above, will let you know how that turns out.

In general, I avoid synthetic chemicals and use herbals as antibiotics and anthelmintics. I took the DEC just to show you something, but I guess it went right over your head.

[madsenshooter]

What do you think a blackfly is? Something that lives only in Africa? There's over 2000 species worldwide. Here's where they live in the US:

AL, AR, AZ, CA, CO, CT, DC, DE, FL, GA, IL, IN, KS, KY, LA, MD, MI, MN, MS, MO, MT, NC, ND, NE, NV, NH, NJ, NM, NY, OK, OR, PA, RI, SC, SD, TN, VA, VT, WA, WI, WV, WY That's 42/50, and I imagine the ones missing are just ones they don't have info for yet. Danged things, flying up here from WV without filing a flight plan! Sigh, my sister lives in TN. Am I going to have to come down there and show you? I thought MO was the show me state!

[luvtn]

Nah, you don't need to come show me. Good luck with your health.
luvtn

[madsenshooter]

And good luck to you staying free of them.

[Geezer in NH]

Hey I am here in NH and can hardly wait for blackfly season!!!!! it will mean spring is finally here!!!!! :bigsmyl2:

[madsenshooter]

Y'all pay attention here! This is from 2012, I've added some emphasis for lvtn. The life cycle likely hasn't been fully worked out yet. But likely involves anything that might bite a deer then bite you, or cuts while skinning. I wouldn't have started the post if I wasn't pretty darned sure of what I have! No links provided, you wanna find it, dig for yourself. Delusional, indeed. The delusional ones are the people who think they know it all, like the idiot Hindi Dr who tried to tell me it was a neuropathy!

Parasites in the genus Onchocerca infect humans, ruminants, camels, horses, suids, and canids, with effects ranging from relatively benign to debilitating. In North America, Onchocerca cervipedis is the sole species known to infect cervids, while at least 5 Onchocerca species infect Eurasian cervids. In this study, we report the discovery of a cervid-parasitizing Onchocerca only distantly related to O. cervipedis. To reconstruct the phylogenetic history of the genus Onchocerca, we used newly acquired DNA sequence from O. cervipedis (from moose in Northwest Territories, Canada) and from the newly discovered species (from white-tailed deer in upstate New York), as well as previously published sequences. Ancestral host reconstructions suggest that host switches have been common throughout the evolutionary history of Onchocerca, and that bovid- and cervid-parasitizing species have been particularly important sources of descendant species. North America cervids might therefore serve as a source for Onchocerca invasions into new hosts. Given the high density of deer populations, the potential for zoonotic infections may also exist. Our discovery of a new Onchocerca species with relatively limited sampling suggests that the diversity of Onchocerca associated with cervids in North America may be greater than previously thought, and surveys utilizing molecules and morphology are necessary.

So, I could be the first case of zoonotic infection for them to take a look at! Wonder where the line forms?

PS Moxidectin doesn't kill the adults, if it did, I wouldn't be in the position I am now, cause I tried that 3-4 years ago. They can compartmentalize the lymphatic system and somehow avoid chemicals, all the while pumping out microfilaria. Don't ask me how they seal things off, I'd have to dig around inside of me to see and don't have the equipment to see, but probably have the know how. The newly discovered species is genetically related to o. volvulus probably works about the same, and dang it, I enjoy shooting too much to go blind. Wouldn't adapt to that well at all!

[Jevyod]

madsenshooter, your inbox is full.

[tdoyka]

i think i will get a box of nitrile gloves(latex makes me itchy;-)). i'll put a pair or two in my hunting coat and a handful of them in my utv glove box.

[cpileri]

Patients currently infected with the parasiteDiethylcarbamazine (DEC) is the drug of choice in the United States. The drug kills the microfilaria and some of the adult worms. DEC has been used world-wide for more than 50 years. Because this infection is rare in the U.S., the drug is no longer approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and cannot be sold in the U.S. Physicians can obtain the medication from CDC after confirmed positive lab results. CDC gives the physicians the choice between 1 or 12-day treatment of DEC (6 mg/kg/day). One day treatment is generally as effective as the 12-day regimen. DEC is generally well tolerated. Side effects are in general limited and depend on the number of microfilariae in the blood. The most common side effects are dizziness, nausea, fever, headache, or pain in muscles or joints.
DEC should not be administered to patients who may also have onchocerciasis as DEC can worsen onchocercal eye disease. In patients with loiasis, DEC can cause serious adverse reactions, including encephalopathy and death. The risk and severity of the adverse reactions are related to Loa loa microfilarial density.
The drug ivermectin kills only the microfilariae, but not the adult worm; the adult worm is responsible for the pathology of lymphedema and hydrocele.
Some studies have shown adult worm killing with treatment with doxycycline (200mg/day for 4–6 weeks).
Patients with clinical symptomsLymphedema and elephantiasis are not indications for DEC treatment because most people with lymphedema are not actively infected with the filarial parasite.
To prevent the lymphedema from getting worse, patients should ask their physician for a referral to a lymphedema therapist so they can be informed about some basic principles of care such as hygiene, exercise and treatment of wounds.
Patients with hydrocele may have evidence of active infection, but typically do not improve clinically following treatment with DEC. The treatment for hydrocele is surgery.



I been doing some research, and I want to remind everyone to take some rubber or plastic gloves hunting with you. There are three species of helminths that infect deer and other ungulates which produce infective little ones known as microfilaria. Other species that produce these microfilaria are those that cause elephantiasis and river blindness. If you should get infected by the microfilaria from deer, your hands will swell and you'll spend a lot of time going to the Dr. who will simply tell you that it's a neuropathy. Yes dummy, it's obviously a neuropathy, but what is infecting the nerves that is causing it! Few Drs here in the states are familiar with zoonotic diseases that can come from animals. Those Drs who are obviously from foreign countries have even less knowledge of them it seems. "I am the Dr", one hindi guy said to me when I tried to point him in the right direction. I'll skip giving my opinion of someone who abandons the poor and sick of his own country to become a highly paid pill pusher in this one.

I've had some firsthand experience with the stuff, you don't want to mess with it. The little vermin have caused some of the same symptoms in me that they do in deer! If you wanna find out what those symptoms are, the three species are: Onchecera cervipedis, paraphostrongylus andersoni, and elaeophora schneideri. The last one is very long lived, up to 15yrs, but that might depend on the longevity of the host, and they can produce a lot of young! These critters are spread by deer flies, horseflies, blackflies, gnats and other biting insects. They can be circulating in the blood and lymph of your kill and can infect you through your bare skin! I know I'll hear from lots of guys who have skinned many a deer barehanded and will say there's nothing wrong with them. Could be true, count yourself lucky, and stop the practice before you get the little vermin, it ain't no fun and the only Dr who will be able to figure it out is a veterinarian, who won't do squat because he isn't licensed to!

[madsenshooter]

Thanks for the input cpileri. I got lots and lots less of most of the things, but have been through some too. I got through the hydrocele, it is healing, prostate went down to norm too. That was a real pain in the scrotum.Whatever was in there died some time ago, and things seem to be healing on their own. Ivermectin, I used at one time. Mild lymphodema I have now. One way valves are messed up an lymph falls down to my ankles and feet when I'm vertical long. Toes turn purple. I've been through two encephalopathies. Been on doxy too. I have an LLMD.

[Hanshi]

I started wearing surgical gloves years ago when field dressing deer and other game. It made it (me) a lot less messy. I always strip down to my t-shirt (for upper body cleanliness) when working on deer. I never gave much thought to any diseases but maybe that should have been considered. I'm fine and never had a problem, thanks to staying as "un-messy" as possible.

[madsenshooter]

Here's the full paper: https://melittology.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/parasitology-2012-mcfrederick.pdf Probably easiest to skip to the discussion starting on pg 7.

[madsenshooter]

Got to add this for those of you with dogs: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17951007 Only have the abstract at the moment. Though not specific enough information to say it's the same critters getting in dogs as deer, and me, I'm going to guess it likely. My mother had a large dog. He was bitten by horseflies and likely other things. He developed a lump on his neck. Mom had no money for the vet. I looked up the location of the lump, dogs have lymphatic ducts there. When whatever that lump was holding back got through the lump and to his brain, he fell over dead. He was going blind before that happened. The dog's lump was pronounced. I have a deep down, not really visible from the outside, lump on my neck that is going away.

[Rustyleee]

When my son and I took our advanced bowhunter's class put on by the state one of the teachers shared his experience along with pictures. He was cleaning a hog and a broadhead which had broken off inside the hog scratched his hand. His hand swelled to 3X it's normal size. Doctors had to cut slits in the skin to allow for the swelling. He said it was extremely painful and took several months for all of the problems to go away.

[madsenshooter]

Months would be nice, I been working on these thing for 4yrs. The vermin took up residence in cattle here in the US, when deer numbers were lower, thus there's a chance that they, and their symbiotic wolbachia, have been hit with, and developed resistance to, what is now the standard treatment overseas. I am getting better results with herbals.

[Elkins45]

I've been putting a set of dishwashing gloves in my hunting pack since I began killing deer in 1990. Since then I think I have dressed close to 50 deer and I did ONE without gloves. Here's how I look at it: $1 for gloves vs $2000 deductible for hospitalization.

Seems like a good investment of a dollar to me.

[Ivantherussian03]

About 15 plus years ago, I read about a man in Wyoming. He skinned a cougar and cut himself while doing it. He died under mysterious circumstance; the article lead me to believe to two events were connected, although I don't remember all the details. So I have tried to wear gloves while skinning for my trapline. I need buy better gloves I am thinking now.